THERMOGENIC INFO: Xenadrine, Hydroxycut, Ripped Fuel, Diet Fuel, Metabolife, etc ...

[tina3869]

A friend of mine told me about this product called Ripped Fuel, it's "metabolic enhancer" and the bottles says it contains the following ingredients:

Chromium 200mcg
(from chromium picolnta)

Mahuang extracts (from arial parts) 334 mg
(standardized for 20mg ephedra alkkoloids)

Guarana Seed Extract 910mg

L-camatine 100mg

Has anyone used this? I have no idea what any of this stuff is or what it is supposed to do to your body. I hate to take it untill I know what the heck it is.

If someone could translate this stuff into plain English I would be very appreciative

Thanks, Tina

[Trainerdan]

Ripped Fuel is another one of the many herbal combinations of the classic ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks.

It is in the same class as: Xenadrine, Hydroxycut, Thermadrene, Ultimate Orange, Beta-Lean ... as well as just doing it the old school way of popping a 20mg ephedrine hcl tab, a 200mg caffeine tab (Vivarin, etc.), and a baby aspirin.

You must be VERY careful to read the bottle before purchasing/using any ephedrine based product, as certain health conditions can be made worse if ephedrine (or any stimulant for that matter) is consumed. Off the top of my head, I would say high blood pressure, thyroid disorders, heart diesase, diabetes, hypogyclemia ... hmm ... there's a few more. Just read the bottle.

On the plus side, it is one of the most effective supplements that can help with the early weight loss that is critical for motivation during a weight loss program. It has been studied extensively for safety and effectiveness ... high marks for this ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin combo (also called ECA stack).

Now for some long winded background ....

- Ephedrine is an alkaloid (bitter organic base) found in various plant species of Ephedra, also called Ma Huang. Ephedrine is useful because it acts as a nasal decongestant, a central nervous system stimulant and as a treatment for bronchial asthma.

- Ephedrine has been shown to be very effective in elevating body temperature which can help you achieve your weight loss goals. It is not advisable to exceed 75 mg per day, taken in three divided doses.

- Ephedrine is a beta-adrenergic agonist. What that means is that it acts like adrenelin (adrenergic) in your body. However, it only acts on alpha receptors. Because of ephedrine's adrenalin-like pioperties it is very thermogenic which means that it causes your body to generate heat, which will in turn cause you to burn more calories.

Studies? OK ... It's a lot of scientific mumbo jumbo, but I put smileys at the key points if you wanna scroll down to them ...

Title: The effect and safety of an ephedrine/caffeine compound compared to ephedrine, caffeine and placebo in obese subjects on an energy restricted diet. A double blind trial.

Author(s): Astrup A Breum L Toubro S Hein P Quaade F

Journal: Int-J-Obes-Relat-Metab-Disord. 1992 Apr; 16(4): 269-77 1992

Abstract: The sympathomimetic agent ephedrine has potent thermogenic and anti-obesity properties in rodents. The effect is markedly enhanced by caffeine, while caffeine given alone has no effect. This study was undertaken to find out if a similar weight reducing synergism between ephedrine and caffeine is present in obese patients.

In a randomized, placebo-controlled, double blind study, 180 obese patients were treated by diet (4.2 MJ/day) and either an ephedrine/caffeine combination (20mg/200mg), ephedrine (20 mg), caffeine (200 mg) or placebo three times a day for 24 weeks. Withdrawals were distributed equally in the four groups, and 141 patients completed the trial.

Mean weight losses was significantly greater with the combination than with placebo from week 8 to week 24 (ephedrine/caffeine, 16.6 +/- 6.8 kg vs. placebo, 13.2 +/- 6.6 kg (mean +/- s.d.), P = 0.0015).

Weight loss in both the ephedrine and the caffeine groups was similar to that of the placebo group.

Side effects (tremor, insomnia and dizziness) were transient and after eight weeks of treatment they had reached placebo levels. Systolic and diastolic blood pressure fell similarly in all four groups.

:D :D We conclude, that in analogy with animal studies, the ephedrine/ caffeine combination is effective for the treatment of human obesity. :D :D

----

Title: The effect of chronic ephedrine treatment on substrate utilization, the sympathoadrenal activity, and energy expenditure during glucose-induced thermogenesis in man.

Author(s): Astrup A Madsen J Holst JJ Christensen NJ

Journal: Metabolism. 1986 Mar; 35(3): 260-5 1986 0026-0495

Abstract: Chronic ephedrine treatment of man has recently been found to enhance the thermogenic response to an acute dose of ephedrine.

Conceivably, this sensitization to beta-adrenergic stimulation might also affect the facultative component of diet-induced thermogenesis. The glucose-induced thermogenesis (GIT) was studied in five healthy female subjects after 3 months of chronic peroral ephedrine treatment.

Similar experiments 3 months after cessation of treatment served as controls.

During chronic ephedrine treatment a sustained :D 10% elevation of the metabolic rate was found compared to that in the control study. Plasma epinephrine levels were increased 87% during treatment. These increases tended to be positively correlated (r = 0.54, P less than 0.07). GIT expressed as a percentage of the ingested energy load was unaltered during chronic ephedrine treatment compared with that in the control study (9.0% v 8.9%).

The respiratory quotient (RQ) indicate that relatively more lipid was oxidized during chronic ephedrine treatment than in the control study. This change was observed in the fasting state as well as after glucose administration.

Certain effects of ephedrine seems to be appropriate to a thermogenic drug for the treatment of obesity:

:D A single dose of ephedrine stimulates thermogenesis, an effect that is enhanced during chronic treatment; Chronic treatment elevates the metabolic rate; and The substrate utilization is changed in favor of lipid oxidation. (otherwise know as "fat burning"):D

----
Title: Effects of chronic administration of ephedrine during very-low-calorie diets on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and hormone levels in obese subjects.

Author(s): Pasquali R Casimirri F Melchionda N Grossi G Bortoluzzi L Morselli Labate AM Stefanini C Raitano A

Journal: Clin-Sci-Colch. 1992 Jan; 82(1): 85-92 1992 0143-5221

Abstract:

1. We investigated the effects of the chronic administration of a sympathomimetic agent on energy expenditure, protein metabolism and levels of thyroid hormones and catecholamines in 10 obese subjects after a 6-week very-low-calorie-diet programme (1965 kJ, 60 g of protein, 45 g of carbohydrates).

L-(-)- Ephedrine hydrochloride (50 mg three times a day by mouth) or placebo were administered during 2-week periods (weeks 2-5 of the VLCD programme) in a randomized, double-blind, cross-over design. Five subjects began with ephedrine and five with placebo.

2. The results were analysed separately in the two groups. No difference was found between them as regards weight loss during the very-low-calorie diet and drug treatments.

Conversely, ephedrine therapy induced a significantly lower daily urinary excretion of nitrogen (and, consequently, a better nitrogen balance) with respect to placebo, independently of the drug sequence. Daily urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine during ephedrine and placebo treatments were similar.

The fasting resting metabolic rate (oxygen consumption, ml STP/min) fell significantly during the very-low-calorie diet in both groups, but this effect was partially and significantly prevented by administration of ephedrine.

:D :D (This study shows that ephedrine by itself doesn't really help with weight loss, but it will help you maintain positive nitrogen balance, which is critical for keeping muscle mass during dieting. Trust me it's a good thing ... SO ... If you take ephedrine be sure to take it with caffeine. Most products come mixed that way. Caffeine is also known as guarana.) :D :D

[tina3869]

First of all let me say thank you for replying to my post. That had to take some time (no matter how fast you type LOL). I read every word in the Studies... scientific mumbo jumbo included!:D

I do have a couple more questions if you don't mind.

I noticed that when I took the Ripped Fuel today my allergies didn't bother me as much, as a matter of fact I usualy have to take a benadryl every 4 hours (per doctors instructions) and I didn't have to take any today. Could it be the Ephedrine? I noted that you said Ephedrine is traditonaly used as a nasal decongestent, so I am guessing thats where it came from.

My friend gets a much better "energy high" from this product (I swear its like she is on crack or something...bouncing of the walls and talking a mile a minute)....however she does not drink caffine and I on the other hand drink about 10 cups of coffee a day. Does Ephedrine have a different effect on different ppl or is it the caffine that is making her hyper?

I know this is going to be a dumb question so please don't laugh at me, but does thermogenic mean the same thing as a fever? Or is it a different kind of body heat. Ok OK I said it was dumb :p

Thanks again for all the info it was very interesting. As a matter of fact I am going to go read it a third time!

Tina

[Trainerdan]

Could it be the Ephedrine? I noted that you said Ephedrine is traditonaly used as a nasal decongestent, so I am guessing thats where it came from.

Yep, that's probably it. Next time you look at the side of a box of cold medication you will probably find PSEUDO-ephedrine as the main ingredient. It's not the same for fat loss, but it "opens you up" so you can breathe. The "real" ephedrine used to be in there, but people were abusing it.

Does Ephedrine have a different effect on different ppl or is it the caffine that is making her hyper?

If you're body is used to a high caffeine intake, you will not feel as "hyper" as someone who doesn't take in caffeine. (I should also add that the "hyper" is just a side effect and will go away in a few weeks)

Each one of those doses of ripped fuel has 200mg caffeine in it. That's alot if your body isn't used to it. Which reminds me, by the way, avoid your coffee within 4 hours of a Ripped Fuel dose to avoid "overstimualtion".

but does thermogenic mean the same thing as a fever? Or is it a different kind of body heat.

Hmmm ... good one, but a fever is the body's defense for killing off infections. Even though thermogenesis will make you feel hotter and raise body temperature the same as a fever, it will only go so high. You won't be getting a 101 degree Ripped Fuel induced thermogenic response. You probably will feel hot though.

Sometimes when I am on an ECA based product I throw off heat like a blast furnace. Fern makes fun of me because of it. :D

Hope I answered your questions ...

P.S. ... I am from Audubon, NJ :)

[tina3869]

You are so right about the caffine, bc a couple of weeks after she started taking the Ripped Fuel she called and said "this stuff isn't working anymore. Do you think I should take more of it?" Well since I didn't even know what it was at taht time, I told her "No, your body probably just got used to it, don't take more just stop taking it all together for a few weeks and give your body a rest, then try it again" Now that I read what you said about not exceeding the recommended amount I'm glad I told her that. People (myself included) don't realize that even though something is sold "over the counter" it can be dangerous.

To be honest I bought the bottle bc I was looking for a legal way to get some energy. We are moving from one side of Cherry Hill to the other and with two kids (10yo and 2yo) and no sugar rush to keep me going....well I am just so wore out.

How do you know fern? She is the greatest isn't she?

Audubon, NJ? hmmm...we have only been here a year so I'll have to ask my 10yo where that is (thank God for geography in school hahahaha)

Oh, before I forget...I clicked on your link and went to your site. I got about a hundred "run-time-errors" (not your fault my computer just hates pop-up adds) anyway I just realized that you answer these kind of questions for a living and I have never once saw you brag or try to sell your services....well what I am trying to say is "your a great guy"

Sorry to be so long winded.....have a great weekend!

Tina

[fern2340]

Originally posted by tina3869
[BIs Dan great or what? I mean to take that much time to sit down and explain all that to me and to give me sientific studies to prove his point?

Let's hear it for DAN!!

"Dan! Dan! He's our man! If he can't help you no one can!"

:D [/B]

Ok, now Dan's head is going to get all big and I won't be able to sit in the same room as him!!! Just kidding!

Tina, I am flattered that you think I'm great! And yes, so is Dan! He is my boyfriend so that's how we know each other....
One of the reasons I love him so much is because of the way he loves to help people. (like posting scientific studies and giving info to people from his own personal experiences) :)

Anyway, Audubon is only like 10 minutes from Cherry Hill!!!

:)

[Trainerdan]

couple of weeks after she started taking the Ripped Fuel she called and said "this stuff isn't working anymore. Do you think I should take more of it?" Well since I didn't even know what it was at taht time, I told her "No, your body probably just got used to it, don't take more just stop taking it all together for a few weeks and give your body a rest, then try it again"

About this ... the side effect may go away, but the ECA still will work its magic even if you can't "feel it". In fact, the longer you take it, the better. But I would stop taking it after 8 weeks on, then do 4 weeks off.

I know some guys who do 12 weeks on, but they don't take it on weekends. That is one way to go.

[Saliena]

Greetings all,

My partner wants to loss some weight but she has tried the low carb thing and does not like it. She went to GNC and got a medication called Xenadrine. Does anyone know about it? What does it do? I am kind of leery of meds that promise fast weight loss. Does anyone know anything about it?

Thanks

Saliena

[ChrstnHrpr]

Hello! First of all, congrats on the weight loss ( I just got done reading your other post):D I have experience with Xenadrine and Hydroxycut, so here is my opinion. I would personally tell her not to take them! They dont work! They cost too much! Walmart sells a generic form of Xenadrine with the same exact ingredients for 1/2 the price. They make you moody and they are extremely hard to get off of! It is like a legal form of speed! If you want this kind of pick me up, just drink a pot of coffee!:D The ads are too good to be true and they are! They're computer touched up photos! Ever notice how everyone in those pictures suddenly has an awesome tan? I work in a salon with tanning beds and I am sorry but you cant get a tan like that in 6 weeks!:rolleyes: Just my opinion from personal experience. Tell her to save herself the money and the tears from emotional outbursts these pills cause and try some good old fashioned exercise!

[Susie]

Well Christine one of the spokepeople just happens to be Marla Duncan.
She's a been a fitness icon since the late 80's. And I can tell you that her pictures have not been retouched. If you've ever followed fitness/bodybuilding you'll also know how much her body composition has changed throughout the years as well as her pregnancy a few years back.
As far as the tans........most models use bottled tans as I do. It gives a nice even tan without the damage of UV rays. I get a tan like that within a week's time!

Hydroxycut has also worked for me! My bodyfat levels have never been so low! I've had three children and went down from a size 8-10 to a size 3-4 within less than 5 months.
Though the results from Hydroxycut for me peeked at about 4 weeks as I'd already lost most of the fat on my own previous to taking Hydroxycut.

I am returning to the gym after a two month lay off and Hydroxycut will be my favorite companion in the weeks to come.
Although my bodyfat levels are considered normal. Hydroxycut seems to melt off just enough to show the curves I've worked so hard for in the gym. It gives me the tight look I love!

But this is just my story!
Susie

[Sadai]

On behalf of Hydroxycut!!!
I thought I would add my 2 cents, and I absolutely agree with Susie. I currently only take 2 per day and as a result have found the energy to join a gym and lose 7 lb's to date... and I will continue using the Hydroxycut according to the directions !!
:D

[Trainerdan]

All of these products that are a combination of Epedrine (ma huang), caffeine (guarana), and aspirin (white willow bark) work for fat loss.

Some people like 'em, some don't. Personally, I love 'em. They do work ... and science can prove it. I wrote a lengthy post on ECA stacks in the Daily forum a while ago ... let's see if I can dig it up ...

[madpiano]

Hmm, just my 2 cents : Ephedrine is a form of speed which is an A-Class drug. It is very addictive and is linked to heart problems, especially when used in combination with exercise. I know it is sold freely in health food shops. That doesn't mean it is safe ! Be carefull when you take it. My friend at home was addicted to speed, and she was skinny as hell, but she also had a year-long fight to come off the stuff and is now on anti-depressants

[Natrushka]

Hi there. I've done some research on the ECA stack and I have a question, or two :)

I recently quit smoking, I know that smoking increases metabolism (I believe the number is around 10%) and therefore quitting would decrease it. I have also been taking my rising and afternoon temperatures of late to see if I was indeed having problems with a thyroid issue. My doctor thinks not. I have noticed this past week that my temp upon rising has decreased between .2 - .5 a degree. Question is this: In your post about ECA stacks you mention that :

it is one of the most effective supplements that can help with the early weight loss that is critical for motivation during a weight loss program.

Obviously, this is not the start of my weight loss program ;) Do you think I would benefit from taking this for a few weeks? My BP used to be on the high side of normal it is now 130 / 79, normal cholesterol, etc.

Thx for the help,
Nat

[Trainerdan]

It sounds as if your body has adjusted to yoru current activity level/calorie level, which is indicated by the drop in your temperature (thyroid slowing down as your body's natural defense mechanism to "stop wasting away")

An ECA would be a good choice here. When your temp slows again, add some thyroid boosting supplements to the mix (guggul & phosphates ... there is a product that combines an ECA with the thryroid boosters .... I think it is made by MHP, but the name escapes me .. Thyro-Stack, Thyrolean, something to that effect ...

[Trainerdan]

Thyroslim (AM/PM) ... by MHP ... don't pay over $30 for it.

[Natrushka]

Thanks, Dan :)

I discovered something today while doing some independant research, CLA is being used to supplement for thyroid deficiencies? This came as a suprize; I have been taking CLA for a few weeks but for other reasons. I will look into Thyroslim (would that be 30$ US or canadian? ;))

Nat

[Trainerdan]

I wasn't aware of CLA and it's use in the treatment of thyroid deficincy. What is the doseage listed in the study?

The only drawback to the orginal fat loss properties of CLA was that the dose was somewhere around 10g per day of I remember correctly, and that just makes it cost prohbitive for most.

The $30 was U.S. Sorry, I always forget that this is a Candian board ... :daze:

[Natrushka]

Figures, I cant find the damned article this morning ;) I will resume my search later. I am certain though that I saw this.

On average how long does it take to start noticing the effects of an ECA stack? My body temp on rising was 97.4, this is a good degree above what it's been in the past week ( averaging between 95.7 - 96.3). I'm at 1/2 the recommended dose for now and I plan on staying there for a few weeks. I was unable to get to sleep until 11:30 ish last night, unheard of for me. I sleep now like the dead and w/in 10 minutes of hitting the pillow.

N

[Houston999]

Guggulbolic. I just started the CKD yesterday and wanted to get your opinion on the effectiveness of Adipo and Guggul together...or is taking Adipo by itself just as good? Or, is there something better out there? I want something to help burn the fact and provide an energy boost. I have a good cardio/workout plan in place and want to go from 18%bf down to about 10% or so.

I have read many of your posts and respect your opinion and feedback! Thanks.

[Trainerdan]

They are both great products ... to use them effectively, I will dig up a post I gave a while back on the proper use of an ECA stack (well, adipoK is technically a NYC stack: norephedrine, yohimbine, and caffeine ... but stilll falls in the same category as ECA's) ...

[Trainerdan]

First, you need to check your body temperature FIRST THING in the morning. That means as soon as you wake up.

If it's under 97.8, start taking Guggullipids and phosphates to
stimulate thyroid activity.

Once you get your AM temperature above 97.8, cruise there for a while. Keep doing your diet and exercsie plans as you normally do. Keep taking your morning temperature. It's important because it will show you when your thyroid adjusts to your supplements.

The first time that your temperature falls below 97.8 for three days straight, stop taking guggul and start taking AdipoK. Work yourself up to taking doses 3x day. Add in 3g of fish oil caps per day at this point. Remember to keep taking your AM temperature.

If when it drops again, switch back to guggul.

[Natrushka]

I've come across a lot of comments of late about cycling your ECA stack. The gist is that it's actually not a good idea to cycle (http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000006B.htm) an ECA stack because once your body gets accustomed to it and you no longer exhibit the symptoms (that aggitated or hyper quality), this is when it is actually working best at burning fat.

Any comments?

Nat

[Trainerdan]

It has been stated that the ECA stack exhibits greater fat buring potential the longer you stay on ... however, if your thyroid senses that you are "wasting away" it will attempt to maintain homeostasis by slowing down production of the thyroid hormones, no matter how much ephedrine you take. Once it slows down (indicated by a lower morning temperature for 3 days straight) you need to get it going again, which is what the guggulipids and phosphates do.

In the example I gave above, it may look as if we are cycling on and off ECA very quickly, however, the changes in lower thyroid activity could takes weeks or months, IF AT ALL.

[Natrushka]

Thanks for the quick reply, Dan :)

N

[Houston999]

Thanks for the quick response. You guys are a great source of information for this guy who has read and done....BFLife Plan, MuscleMedia articles, Muscle and Fitness, Protein Power, etc. It gets somewhat confusing after awhile...so thanks for supplying quick and "right on" responses.

[goblins]

http://www.personalhealthzone.com/ephedra.html

[goblins]

http://www.health-doc.com/healtharticles/MaHuang.html

[Natrushka]

There are two sides to every story, Goblins. Here's my contribution:

http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000006F.htm
and from our own TrainderDan: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6744

Nat

[goblins]

For every article of support, there is one to negate....
LC is good for you - no LC is bad for you...

The truth of the matter is that I've had nothing but positive results with LC... and the only problem I had with ECA stacking was some brief depression (from the Ma Huang, I believe.)

I think that no one really knows the truth, and it really only matters what you want to believe. Do you believe the skeptics or are you a true believer? =)

What's best for you is probably what will work for you....

But we can't make good decisions without all the facts. Thanks for the "flip-side"....

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by goblins
But we can't make good decisions without all the facts. Thanks for the "flip-side"....

Exactly! Before you start something as important as LC or taking a supplement or buying a house you should have ALL the facts :)

Nat

[LiLMoMMa]

:eek: I have been using the ECA stack combination for a while now, I didn't know that mahuang can enhance depression, I don't want nothing else putting on to my occasional depression. Well I am going to read the articles on this stuff, and stop using it maybe I will be able to feel better just LCing. I know that this ECA combination is not good for my health in the long run, but I guess I been so caught up and anxious in reaching my goal size that I haven't realize what this stuff can really do to my body. :rolleyes:
I noticed that when I stop using this stuff for a day or two I get into these mood swings and feeling sluggish that I begin eating more (lots of junk food *carbs*). :tears: Maybe once I stay away from this stuff and let my body function normally, I will feel better and keep on track with my Low Carb plan. ;)

[M B]

Please let me know if Thermadrene would be OK to take whilst Low Carbing...

Appreciate the help...

[Natrushka]

MB, Thermadrene contains an ECA stack (ephedrine, caffeine and an asprin precursor). The main ingredient being Ephedrine. An People use an ECA stack to increase alertness, speed up metabolism, aid weight loss, enhanced athletic performance and increase mental sharpness.

Because ephedrine acts as a general sympathetic nervous system stimulant, it can give users a “boost” or “pick up” similar to what you might feel after a cup or two of strong coffee. By mimicking the effects of epinephrine, ephedra can increase the output of blood from the heart, enhance muscle contractility, raise blood sugar levels and open bronchial pathways for easier breathing. In many cases, ephedra can result in a temporary suppression of appetite, which may help efforts aimed at dietary restriction and weight loss.

There is a thread here (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16108&highlight=Ripped+AND+fuel) about ECA that you should read over, but whether you should take it or not will depend on your health. The warning lable on Thermadene is quite long (and I have included it below) and you should not take it if you have any of the pre-existing conditions described. If you are in a position to try it I suggest starting off with a very low dosage (one third or one quarter the daily recommended dose) as your reaction to it may be quite strong.

Virtually all dietary supplements that contain ephedra-alkaloids also carry a strong warning on their labels which reads:
Women who are pregnant or nursing should avoid using ephedra-containing products. Keep out of reach of children. Avoid using ephedrine-containing products if you have high blood pressure, heart or thyroid disease, diabetes, difficulty in urination due to prostate enlargement, or if taking monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors or any other prescription drug. Reduce or discontinue use if nervousness, tremor, irritability, rapid heartbeat, sleeplessness, loss of appetite, or nausea occur.

HTH,
Nat

[M B]

Thank you. I took a capsule yesterday and I did seem a little "amped" up. I was just wondering if it was safe to use it now & then so thanks for your reply. I might take it for a big sporting competition coming up and see what happens...

[Trainerdan]

I am made this thread as a "greatest hits" of all of the thermogenic questions/threads that are around and putting them all in one place.

That way, there is only one place to look and get all of the info.

I consulted with Ms. IslandGirl from way over in the low-carb products forum, so this will be a joint venture. :)

[Carol LeFa]

Hi its been really enlightning reading this thread, Im from the Uk and have just recived details about Xenadrine in the post it looked interesting and it mentioned that it has had great success in the US. and after readind this thread I can see just how popular it is, I would love to try it as I have just given up smoking and Iam fighting at the moment to keep from putting any weight on, never mind gettin it says that g it off. On the bottom of the advert it says ...........Quote, The EEC formulation of Xenadrine contains Synephrine which may result in a small reduction in benifit but a probable greatly enhanced safety profile.

Have they spoilt it for us here? I cant afford to be throwing money at somthing that isnt going to work, or should I hold fire untill I go to Canada in a couple of months and get the real thing.

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Carol LeFa
The EEC formulation of Xenadrine contains Synephrine which may result in a small reduction in benifit but a probable greatly enhanced safety profile.

Have they spoilt it for us here? I cant afford to be throwing money at somthing that isnt going to work, or should I hold fire untill I go to Canada in a couple of months and get the real thing.

Carol, you might want to read this thread (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27472&highlight=Synephrine) ;)

I would suggest holding off until you're here - but be warned products with ephedra in them at a dosage higher than 8mg (which is just about all of them) have been taken off the shelves in Canada. You can, however, usually get them if you ask (they are kept behind the counter)

Nat

[Carol LeFa]

Well it just goes to show you, the EEC thinks were BUGS Im soooo glad that I asked for help on this one, I will hold on untill I get to Banff, and while hubby is confrencing I will be pharmacy
hunting.

Thanks Nat, for all your help.

[Tarah]

Hi Sadai !


Glad that you got back to me. I had written a question saying that I can see that you have done quite well in losing weight and that you said that Hydroxycut helped you, and that you love it.. I was wondering if you could tell me more about how Hydroxycut has helped you? Has it helped? is there a noticed difference when using as compared to just dieting?? I am just really interested in trying this, and I am looking for as much information as possible..

Take care!

[mrsu]

This information was great, but does anyone know what I could take if I was allergic to asprin?

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by mrsu
This information was great, but does anyone know what I could take if I was allergic to asprin?

I would say 'No' - the A in ECA is asprin (as either asprin or a derivative).

Nat

[mrsu]

I guess I have to do it the old fasion way. :D

[Trainerdan]

MRSU ...

Most of the studies shown place great emphesis on the EC portion of the ECA stack. The ephedrine/caffeine combination is the major duo in the fat burning department.

If you are going to take an herbal preparation, look for ones without aspirin, white willow bark, or anything that is standardized for salicyin (?) content.

BetaLean by EAS doesn't contain any aspirin related ingredients, so that's an option for you.

[Mike]

Welcome back from your vacation Dan,

I've read through this thread a few times trying to figure out what to get, etc... Most of your recommendations are fairly dated. Can you give us your top 3 recommended brand names for an ECA stack to buy? Are generic just as good? Any brandnames you would recommend staying away from?

Thanks,

Mike

[Trainerdan]

At the time of this writing, I suggest the following 3 products:

(1) BetaLean by EAS
(2) Adipokinetix by Syntrax (technically, a NCY stack)
(3) Xenadrine by Cytodyne Technologies

As for generics, the old tried and true is to take 20 mg of ephedrine hydrochloride, 200mg caffeine, and (if you want) 81 to 200mg aspirin.

Knock-off brands are scary to me because of quality assurance issues. You get what you pay for .. well, in my mind anyway.

[Justarius]

Wow, what a great thread and kudos to Dan for becoming such a Guru. Like Mike, I'm curious as to what he recommends concerning brands.

I'm in Canada and these products are very hard to find. Especially since the following:

http://www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2002/01/09/Consumers/ephedra_020109

Essentially Heath Canada (our FDA) has BANNED damn near every Ephedrine based product, especially targeting the weight loss products. The above link talks about their findings. Is there any truth to it?

When a huge organization supposedly founded to keep us safe bans a product so completely, going so far as to order a complete recall, I get a littler nervous. As it was I had to go to the States to buy Xenadrine since the Canadian version had been degraded from a fat burner to an energy stimulant. This also made me nervous. Why was Canada refusing to sell full Xenadrine? And that was BEFORE the ban. I haven't been to a GNC lately, but I'm curious as to what they have now if they couldn't even carry full Xenadrine before the ban.

Any comments? Are there alternatives to Xenadrine which are "safer" and still just as effective (let alone available)? Is Health Canada full of it? (see above link for details)

Thanks in advance,

Anthony

P.S. I find "rapid heart beat" listed as a warning on these products rather ironic. Aren't they SUPPOSED to increase your heart rate? I tried my US smuggled Xenadrine for a few weeks and I definitely felt my heart beating faster than normal

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Justarius
I haven't been to a GNC lately, but I'm curious as to what they have now if they couldn't even carry full Xenadrine before the ban.


While they are not supposed to be 'officially' carrying these products, if you ask them quitely they usually have some behind the counter. I know of a few stores (GNC and others) that carry Hydroxycut - and it is still available today.

Nat

[amarie]

Hi there!
I just wanted to put my "two cents" regarding thermogenics. I recently trained for a bodybuilding competition (about a year ago) and have battled diets and my weight for 6 years now. I have tried every thermogenic out there. Most recently, Hydroxycut.

My advice it to make sure you are taking a safe amount and don't let it become something you rely on. My problem was when I first began taking it, the ephedrine in the pills curbed my appetite so much, that I'd barely eat. Shortly after taking the pill, I also experience jitters, dizziness, and extreme highs and lows when it came to energy. Those side effects all seemed to go away when my body became used to ephedrine. The thing I would caution is that when your body does adapt to it, don't get in the habit of taking more pills to feel those "side effects." Just because the side effects go away, doesn't mean the pill isn't working. That's when people over dose on ephedrine, and we've all read the horror stories.

I was also a trainer and the gym I was at was forced to pull products containing "ephedrine" because of their serious potential. The company quickly turned around and put the product back on the market, just under a different name. Ephedrine has many different names, so be watchful for those.

I wouldn't discourage anyone from taking thermogenics, I would just suggest that you make wise and educated choices. I recently had to get myself off of them because I was becoming dependent on them and that's not okay. Use them for a few weeks, then give your body a break for a week or so. Or try 2 days on, one day off.

Hope some of you can find this info useful :)
Good Luck!

[Trainerdan]

Ephedra Supplement Has No Side Effects

The results of a study presented at the 42nd Annual Conference of The American College of Nutrition suggest that not all diet products with ephedra are created equal.

In this study conducted by Miami Research Associates in Florida, 12 mildly overweight adults received an ephedrine/caffeine/L-theanine-based weight-loss product twice daily for 14 days. Each dose contained 15 mg of ephedrine (from ephedra), 150 mg of caffeine (from green tea), 40 mg of grape-seed extract and a "neurothermic modulator" blend that included 10 mg of L-theanine.

Subjects were closely monitored for body weight, body water, percent of body fat, sleep quality, stress levels, caloric intake and fasting blood sugar.

Additionally, subjects were given regular electrocardiograms (EKGs) and underwent heart-rate variability and blood-pressure testing for a two-hour period after ingesting a dose of the supplement at each laboratory visit.

Over the course of the two-week period, subjects lost between 1 and 2.5 lb and 2% to 3% of their body fat. The extensive testing on health conditions found no significant changes compared to the prestudy values.

[aztovaalex]

I've read that ephedra has the opposite effect on metabolism on those people who are hypothyroid. In the past, I have tried two different types of ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks. Each time, I gained weight. I am hypothyroid.

Secondly, if caffeine produces an insulin spike, would the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks be counter-productive to anyone on a low carb diet?

What supplements would you recommend for someone who is hypothyroid other than kelp?

On a more personal note, my friend Brent, who works in a place that runs 24/7, 12 hour shifts, took the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks to stay awake, as did many people on night shift. At the age of 38, he had a stroke and was told that the ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stack contributed. Whether he had a pre-disposition to stroke, we don't know. So, be careful with this stuff.

[FreeWilly]

I am currently living a low carb life style and felt terribly guilty for buying Hydrodxycut but thanks to NAT I felt better after visiting her confessional booth. However, I started taking them last Thursday..the two before breakfast and two before lunch. I had to tone that way down. I almost lost it. I felt like I was going to crawl out or my skin. So I cut it down to one before lunch and one before breakfast. Amarie stated that symptoms will subside once my body is use to the Ephidrine. Dan is this true? I mean I get dizzy and just feel really crappy. I really want to get that motivational boost you started this thread out with. I want to see results. I could care less about the energy. I have that naturally from working out. Just a quick FYI on side affects and if they will go away will help. Otherwise, I guess I will have to stop taking them. (Another 30 bucks down the drain)

HELP!! :daze:

FREE :wave:

[Natrushka]

Willy, I had slight symptoms when I started taking them - but I never went above half the dose (One pill 2 or 3 times a day). You should definitely start out with half the dose (I believe I suggested this to you in your confession booth post) and keep it there for the first few weeks.

The side effects do tend to dissapate with time - but not everyone can tolerate them. Keep a close eye on how you are feeling, please.

Nat

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by aztovaalex
I've read that ephedra has the opposite effect on metabolism on those people who are hypothyroid. In the past, I have tried two different types of ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin stacks. Each time, I gained weight. I am hypothyroid.

aztovaalex, there is a warning on every bottle containing ECA that people with thyroid conditions should not take this supplement. The warning list is long - everyone should be sure to read it.

Deaths that have been associated with this product are actually lower than those reported for people taking over the counter medications - including asprin. Most cases are the result of misuse and not heeding warnings.

Nat

[FreeWilly]

Thanks Nat.. I will keep a close eye on these feelings.. They did decrease after I cut down to just one pill instead of two..But I still feel slightly on edge and just all around icky! No other probs that I can see..no racing heart or anything like that.. Just not feeling good..kinda quizzy and light headed.

FREE :wave:

[aztovaalex]

Thanks Nat.

I read the warnings on the bottle. However, I was told by my pharmacist that everything should be okay as drugs that should hype me up do not have that effect. For instance, I can take all cold and allergy medicines with no difficulty. She said the warning is because some people react adversely to the stimulants.

In my case, the stack seemed to slow the metabolism, rather than speed it up. Unfortunately, I didn't figure this out or get any other information until after the second run. This was back when I still actually believed that what worked for you would work for me. I've since finally gotten it into my head that I am different and have to figure out what works best for me.

As for my friend, he was more than likely taking way more of the stack than would be advisable. For what it is worth, he had the stroke before the government began putting out warnings.

Now, back to my other questions...Wouldn't the caffeine in the stack cause an insulin spike? What supplements should people with a hypothyroid condition take?

Thanks.

[Mike]

I bought Ripped Fuel as I wasn't able to find any of your recomendations. When I get low on these, I'll go to some additional places to see if I can find the ones you mentioned.

I know the mileage varies, but any idea how soon results typically occur from taking an eca stack? I'm only taking two a day and the normal dosage is 6. Haven't noticed strong side effects. Just a bit more awake.

Thanks,

Mike

[cocoabear]

Has Dan or anyone tried L-arginine based products which build lean muscle and burn fat? They are natural as they normally contain a range of amino acids.

Cocoabear

[DebbieDuh]

I'm wondering if these "crutches" will have to be used indefinately. Will your motabilism suffer and slow down causing you to have to drastically cut calories or "balloon" back up with out the ECAs after long-term use?

[FreeWilly]

Debbie Duh, that is an excellent question.. I have often heard that things of this nature do screw up your metabolism. Does anyone have a good answer to this question.

In light of my last post. It has been a week since I started ECA. My unwanted symptoms have tapered way down. I am still only taking half the recommended dose for beginners. I will gradually increase. I was also wondering how long before you see results. I know all are different. I personal story of success would be great. Haven't heard one yet.

FREE :wave:

[allisonm]

Never take a thermogenic on the same day as a job interview. You sweat twice as much.

I was so embarrassed. :o

[allisonm]

Originally posted by aztovaalex
What supplements should people with a hypothyroid condition take?

I'm not an expert, but I recently read Thin For Good by Fred Pescatore, former medical director for the Atkins Center. He recommended kelp (which you already know about) and magnesium for hypothyroidism.

Protein Power has this sentence buried on page 122 in discussion of rampant chromium deficiency (90% of the country is reported to be chromium-deficient):

"Sufficient chromium will help you build lean muscle pounds, and through interaction with the thyroid system, help you burn fat more efficiently."

That doesn't quite say "take chromium to improve thyroid function" but seems to suggest that chromium is required by the thyroid to burn fat.

Hope that's of some help.

Allison

[DebbieDuh]

I also question the effects of the caffein on insulin levels. Being fairly new to the Atkins/low carb theory, (having just scoured through the book) I'm sure that we were advised to stay away from caffein in all forms. Wouldn't this contradict the keotosis/fat burning (not glucose burning) that we're attempting to achieve? This is suppose to be a "healthy" way to live and eat and bring our levels into control. Don't get me wrong. I'd love some help, but I don't want to get confused. I'm having enough trouble staying away from cereals and fruits and would love a "quick fix".

I'd love any reasurrances!

[FreeWilly]

LoL on the job thing.. I busted out laughing.

Debbieduh agian. I dido your question. That is a very good question and an answer would be great. It is a contradiction I think.. Anyone an expert on this subject??

FREE :read:

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by DebbieDuh
I also question the effects of the caffein on insulin levels. Being fairly new to the Atkins/low carb theory, (having just scoured through the book) I'm sure that we were advised to stay away from caffein in all forms. Wouldn't this contradict the keotosis/fat burning (not glucose burning) that we're attempting to achieve?

Just a note here guys, Atkins says "no caffiene" - this is not the case with all LC programs. Protein Power permits caffeine (and alcohol for that matter), as do many others.

Nat

[FreeWilly]

Caffine and Alcohol? Wow, where do I fine those books?
Sorry to sound like a lush but those are my two draw backs to LCing. :p

My hubby's in a band so I am surrounded by alcies ..LOL and I miss my COFFEE!!! :D

Thanks Nat!
Oh tell me alittle more about some of the other programs..

[Natrushka]

Most of the plans available to you are discussed in detail under the link on the right of every page "Which low-carb plan is right for me?" Sample menus are included :)

Nat

[Sonny]

I have been using Metab-O-Lite, which is one of the ephedra metabolism boosting products. I am using the Caffeine free formula, I bought that because I felt my diet coke habit was, about a six pack a day :daze: , was supplying all the caffeine I needed....Now I have cut back drastically on the diet coke, 2 in the last 3 days. I'm wondering if I should drink a little more diet coke (preferable of course), or get the Caffeine formula :q: I am losing weight and I feel the Metab-O-Lite is helping me keep from over eating at meals and not continually graze....In fact often I'm not even hungry at mealtime.......

Sonny

[DebbieDuh]

Originally posted by DebbieDuh
I'm wondering if these "crutches" will have to be used indefinately. Will your motabilism suffer and slow down causing you to have to drastically cut calories or "balloon" back up with out the ECAs after long-term use?

I'm still wondering about the dependency factor of these "helpers". Has anyone used one of these agents and been able to stop after reaching their goal or do you continue to use them to maintain.

As far as the caffein, wouldn't the adreleline rush of exercise give you the same kind (if not better and healthier) of boost and appetite suppresion?

[allisonm]

Originally posted by Sonny
Now I have cut back drastically on the diet coke, 2 in the last 3 days. I'm wondering if I should drink a little more diet coke (preferable of course), or get the Caffeine formula
I doubt the source of the caffeine matters, but quantity does. I believe the standard ratio is 200 mg. caffeine to 20 mg. ephedrine. From what I've read, you really should not add any additional caffeine beyond that. Call the 800 number on the Coke can to ask how much is in that stuff. Less caffeine would be okay. Many thermogenic formulations are made with less caffeine. Please read the label of the bottle for warnings about excess caffeine. Remember, there really is some danger associated with these pills and you should be careful.

I am losing weight and I feel the Metab-O-Lite is helping me keep from over eating at meals and not continually graze....In fact often I'm not even hungry at mealtime.
Hey, if you're doing low-carb, you should be much more concerned about getting in your minimum protein grams and calories. Grazing is encouraged. If you don't eat enough calories you'll shut down your metabolism.

[Trainerdan]

I'm still wondering about the dependency factor of these "helpers". Has anyone used one of these agents and been able to stop after reaching their goal or do you continue to use them to maintain.

I have hit my goal (until I change it again), and as long as you take the right approach when coming off the ECA stacks, you should be OK.

That is, just as you increased you dose when you first started until you hit a "normal dose", you should try to taper off ECA and ease yourself back into a less-dependant situation.

That's one way to do it, anyway.

[allisonm]

Woohoo TrainerDan!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Congratulations on hitting your goal. I know you went down to a low percentage of body fat and I've always heard how hard those last few pounds are (can't say I've ever been there). Well done!

Allison

[Amethyst]

I've read a few of the posts regarding this product and so far I've seen only good postive responses. I was inclined to purchase this product on last week but I wasn't sure if it worked or not.

So my next question will be can you take that product and still be LCing? Also do you have to restrict what you eat and do a certain amount of exercise? Curious mind wants to know.

:roll:

[Trainerdan]

You can take it while low carbbing ... You still have to watch what you eat, and you still have to do exercise.

Supplements (and this is a supplement) are just that: SUPPLEMENTS to your nutrition and training. Everything should be in order first before you consider using one.

Supplements are not "magic pills". They merely provide an edge.

If your nutrition plan is not 100% solid, and your training hasn't taken you as far as you can go ... then hold off on the fat loss supplements.

Follow your nutrition and training plans to the "T", and when your fat loss stalls out ... THEN turn to supplements such as Hydroxy, Xenadrine, etc.

Too many people use this type of supplement as a crutch. It should be a compliment to a sound, targeted fat loss plan.

[Kathie36]

Has anyone tried BurnXS supplement?

[Trainerdan]

Never heard of/tried Burn XS ... who makes it, and what are the active ingrediens?

I just came across a product I never saw before ... Atomic Fusion. It contains ephedrine HCL, yohimbine, and caffeine.

FYI, Adipokinetix has been pulled from the market. The FDA finally found out that it contained PPA, which was banned earlier this year.

<sigh> They keep taking away all of my favorites ... :(

[Kathie36]

I read about Burn XS in the March issue of Women's Fitness. It says that it is time released but it doesn't list the ingredients. It also talk about a product named Carb Gaurd. They also sell Perfect fuel, meal replacment.it says 44% less carbs but less then what is the questions. probably to many for me.
I have been going to the gym every morning, this is the second week. I ride the bike or walk on the treadmill for 30 minutes and then lift weights for a hour. I feel better but is this the right idea?

[shadowlady]

What does the taking of epedrine have to do with thyroid disease? I would think this would be good for those of us with a thyroid condition?
Michele

[pegm]

Just a couple of questions -- I just finished 12 weeks of BFL and I did lose some inches, but still have a long way to go to lose fat. I quit smoking June 1, 2001, and am sure my metabolism is very slow. I read this thread yesterday and took my temp this morning -- it was 97.2, which is higher than I though it would be considering my normal daytime temp tends to be very low. I went shopping today and bought Metabo-O-Lite caffeine free formula because I do drink caffeine and thought it would be too much if I both took it in pill form and drank it.

However, when I opened the package and read the directions, they state that it should NOT be taken with caffeine because that could cause a heart attack! The ingredients are: 24 mg Ephedra Alkaloids from Ephedra (Ma-Huang) Extract, 'Propietary Blend' (1.05 g); bee pollen, Siberian Ginseng, Ginger, Soy Lecithin, Damiana, Sarsaparilla, Goldenseal, Nettles, Gotu Kola, Spirulina Algea, Royal Jelly

Why would I not be allowed to also take caffeine? Don't the other ECA stackers include both Ephedra and caffeine? I cannot take anything with aspirin because I'm allergic to it.

Should I buy something else? Or should I just use this with or without caffeine and buy something else when it's gone?

[shae]

I recently purchased metabolite. It is suppose to be the same as"metabolife" with out the caffeine. From reading this post, I wonder if I purchased the wrong one. I have heard great success stories about products like this. I don't have a lot of weight to loose (10 lbs) I am on atkins & I have started working out. Will this product help me?

Here is the contents:

Ingredients
(per one tablet)

Serving Size: 1
Servings per Container: 90
Vitamin E 6 IU
Magnesium 75 mg
Zinc 5 mg
Chromium 75 mcg

Proprietary blend with
Ephedra (Ma Huang) Concentrate (12 mg naturally occuring ephedrines) and bee pollen, Siberian Ginseng, Ginger, Lecithin, Bovine Cartilage, Damiana< Sarsaparilla, Goldenseal, Nettles, Gotu Kola, Spirulina Algae, Royal Jelly
*Percentage daily values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet. Your daily values may be higher or lower depending on your calorie needs.
**Daily Value not established

Thanks :wave:

[Trainerdan]

It would seem that you should be able to take caffeine with that product. As you have said on your own, many of the other epedrine/herbal stacks contain a form of it.

And most of the studies show that when Ephedine and caffeine (or their herbal eqivilants) are combined, the effect is compounded greatly.

i don't know why they would make a caffeine-free formula. :confused: The current trend is making EPEDRA free formulas since "the ban" is supposed to be upon us soon.

Xenadrine just launched its ephedra free formula ... so if the major guys are doing it, something's up ...

[pegm]

Thanks for your help again! If the ephedra is soon to be banned, maybe I should stock up now. I hope that the ephedra will work for me -- if I lose weight any more slowly even the Turtle Club will disown me!

[shae]

Hey Trainer Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Should I be useing caffeine with the metabolite in order to make it work? I'm very confused. Right now I have no caffeine in my diet.

Regards,

shae

[Trainerdan]

Shae,

That's a personal decision, one I can't make for you.

Ephedrine will work on it's own, but when it is combined with caffeine (specifically at a ratio of 20mg ephedrine to 200mg caffeine) the fat loss results are much much greater.

[dizzyd]

Hi there;

I've joined the ranks of non-smokers as well, and I'm not sure we can get Ephedra here anymore. What I have is called Ultra Therma Burn, and it's made by Nutrition Zone Products Inc. Is this as effective as an Ephedra based product? The ingredients are ver batim from the label:

Therma charge blend 1100 mg
Synergistic Blend of the following:
Guarana (22% caffiene)
Alpha Lipoic Acid
Coleus Forskohli Extract (10% Forskolin)
Green Tea Extract (30% Polyphenols)
Gymnema Sylvestre Extract (25% Gymnemic Acid)
Citrus Aurantium 650 mg
(4% Synephrine)
White Willow Extract 80 mg
(15% Salicin)
Ginger Root 50 mg
Cayenne 50 mg

Do you think that this is at all worth taking if it has no Ephedra?

Your opinion would be most appreciated!

Thanks very much!

[Flaxie]

On the subject of thermogenics, I have found one I really, really like. Actually, I used to own a Metabolife store and lost quite a bit lowcarbing and using that, but I like this one better. It's called "Lowcarber's Miracle" and was developed by someone in Texas who has 10 years experience in nutraceuticals. He made it targeted specifically towards lowcarbers. I love it so much that I am thinking about buying into the company. :-) It's not widely available yet, but it soon will be. (I guess he has contacts all over the country with brokers and distributors, so look for it soon) It's great stuff.....
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

[silence]

this guy has lots of info on eca stack based on his own experience and he has price comparisons!

http://www.drumlib.com/

[dizzyd]

I was going to post you a message in your journal, but it looks like you don't use it much. I, too, am an ex Suzanne Somers person, now doing Atkins. I would love to compare with you to see what made you switch? If you would like to chat, leave me a message in my journal (I haven't been there lately either, should go there next!) and we can swap war stories!

Cheers!

[_wilow]

Hi everyone,
I have been using Slenderweigh which has the caffiene, ephedra combo in it for 3 years except 9 months of pregnancy. I occasionally take a break for a few weeks but I have found that it really has helped me lose weight. I don't find it to be like speed. There are 12 mg alkoloids of ephedra in it (3 x daily). The FDA is approving ephedra but only for 8 mg, 3x daily and recommends it not be combined with caffeine. I have researched the subject on the internet and there have been many scary stories of people dying from it, often taking caffiene and exercising a lot. It is scary but I don't know what percent it effects so negatively. I'm still taking it an hoping the horror stories are just a minute percent. That's my 2 cents. Lisa

[Trainerdan]

Thanks to everyone who has contirbuted recently to this subject. Some very good posts.

I would like to know the name of the product that is being developed as a thermogen specifically aimed at LC. Pleas PM the info to me if need be ...

And for Dizzy ...

Do you think that this is at all worth taking if it has no Ephedra?

For a non-ephedra product, it has some good fat loss ingredients in it (caffeine, green tea, coleus ... they could leave out the white willlow though ...). Seems like it would be a good product to use ...

[Rich]

I am following the Atkins plan and have been for about 5 weeks. I have lost about 20lbs and have maintained my strength in the gym. I have a friend who is using Hydroxicut and having good weight loss results but is probably taking off too much weight too fast. His strength is suffering.
I would to know if there is anything that I should know about using Hydroxicut in conjunction with Atkins. Any ideas?

[Chloep]

hi,

can i ask if thermogenics like hydroxycut (without the ephedra) can be taken for LONG TERM ??

instd of taking the full dosage, we take half (2 pills) dosage .... for long term instd of for 12 weeks as indicated ?

any advice ?

[Flaxie]

The thermogenic for lowcarbers is called Lowcarber's Miracle and should be available soon on all the lowcarb retail websites. They have a comparison chart showing why it's better than the others for people lowcarbing, but I believe their website is under construction. You might check with Carbsmart, or one of the other big retail sites to see if they carry it yet.
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

[silence]

http://www.drumlib.com

i have posted it b4. but i'll post it again. it has lots of useful info on ephedra from a guy who's been using it for several years.
and a price comaprison page.

[silence]

and its cheappppp and its in the form of ephedrine hcl.....

but i dont want to post the link here because i dont wnat to advertise for the site. please msg me if you want the link

[jennifer 1]

You may want to watch out for ripped fuel, diet fuel, etc.. I know because I was an avid user of these products some years ago. I started to sweat profusely from taking them (this was not only embaressing, but very harmful to my health) I also had an erratic heartbeat. The other thing I have learned about these is that they are harmful if not used correctly. They are meant to be used by someone who exercises. If you do not exercise taking a product that speeds up your system and not exerting that energy can have drastic effects on your heart. Try exercise. I have worked out for 7 years now and it is the best thing anyone can do for themselves

HTH

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Flaxie]

Yes, it's true that thermogenics should be used carefully. I've lost over 100 pounds using them. I worked out most of the time that I've been losing. I like the Lowcarber's Miracle the best out of all the ones I've tried. It doesn't make me feel crazy like Ripped Fuel did, and it KILLS my appetite completely. On the bottle it says "Willpower in a PILL" and they ain't lyin!!! <grin> It helps me get through my workouts, especially here in Texas when it starts to get hot, Julee starts to get lazy. ha ha ha ha Right now it's only available in Texas but soon all the big online retailers should have it....Carbsmart, Netrition, Lowcarb Grocery, etc etc etc. Do be careful with whatever thermogenic you use. They are excellent when used as directed!
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

[Trainerdan]

Thanks for the info Silence, Jennifer, and Flaxie.

It's good to get people's experiences, as well as resources in this thread.

Keep it comin' everyone! :cool:

[loony33]

Sorry,
I wanted to post this in the thermogenics thread :confused:
I don't know how to move it there!!!

Drumlib.com recommends Norexin, it has less ephedera and less caffeine. Also its caffeine source is from green tea.

I've been reading these threads for a while.

:q: My question is. Suppose one looses a lot of weight and bodyfat with the help of thermogenics;
A day will come where this person stops using them.
What happens to the metabolism then? Is it gonna be like a person who exercises and suddenly stops, and start storing bodyfat?

I ordered this Norexin from Netrition, I have been shedding a lot of fat following the PP. Just want to make sure how our bodies react to these supplement.
Are they like Advil or antibiotics? They help us out, but after a while our bodies get used to them and they will work no more?

Thank You

[Natrushka]

Loony, I am sure Dan will better be able to answer this for you, but in the interim I can tell you that most of these supplements are intended to help you for a little while - they should be cycled. Taking a thermogenic to help you lose fat will only work for so long. Once you body adapts you need to change things around, trick it so to speak. The same principle applies to dieting/caloric intake; after a while at X many calories things just don't work like they used to. Cycling your calories and changing the proprotions of P/F/C can help to trick it back into fat loss.

Nat

[dizzyd]

I actually have been opting not to take any thermogenics because I'm only 33 and can't imagine taking something like that for the rest of my life.

I'll wait to hear what Dan has to say about that!

[Trainerdan]

Thermogenics are just a supplement. They are something that you can use as an added boost to further fat loss.

Ideally, they should be used to break a stall, or as part of a well planned out process to keep activating your body's metabolism.

If you stay on thermogens for too long, your body will adapt. Then, you will have the issue of stimulant/caffeine dependency to deal with.

For some people, the benefits outweigh the risks, so they do it. Some studies show that the longer you stay on thermogens (E/C specifically), the better the results.

As for what happens when you come off of thermogenics, well, I usually get an energy crash that doesn't normalize for about a week or so. Metabolically, I don't seem to add on fat when I come off of thermogens.

However, I make sure that when I come off of thermogens that I am also keeping a tight watch on calories. I sometimes start on a thyroid booster after stopping thermogens, just to ensure against any gain. Thyrolean works well for me, since it has guggulsterone as well as phosphates.

In my own opinion, I don't think anyone should be dependant on any thermogenic product. They should be used short-term as an addition to a sound and strict nutrition and exercise plan. If the nutrition and exercise are missing, I always advise to get everything else togther BEFORE adding thermogens to the mix.

I think they are great, and I do use them myself as part of a comprehensive plan for continued fat loss ...

BUT, also included in that plan are adjustments in diet (manipulation of macronutrients), thyroid supplements, yohimbine use, weekly increases on exercise intensity (weights and cardio), and finally, reduction in calories.

Thermogens are a tool to be used in fat loss, but they are not the only tool in the shed. And they shouldn't be the first thing anyone reaches for. There is no magic pill.

[dizzyd]

Thanks so much for answering that Dan. I really appreciate your presence here, you have no idea!

If I've done the temperature test to check my thyroid, and find it to be slow, what would you recommend as a product to boost that? Is the one that you mention in the previous post designed for men, or can women take it? Is there a difference for men and women? Any suggestions? (Other than seeing my Dr., who I seriously believe is a full-blown QUACK!) :rolleyes:

Thanks again!

[Trainerdan]

Thyrolean can be used by women ... There are many other similar products. Look for a combination of guggulsterones and phosphates. These both have a positive effect on your thyroid.

There are stronger methods to kick things up too, but you should start there. No need to go taking supplements that contain active thyroid hormone (if such products are even still available) ...

[dizzyd]

Thanks so much for your advice. I'll be heading to the local health food store tomorrow!!

You rock!

[loony33]

It is my second day using this thermogenic "Norexin".
I am still on the 1 pill dose.

Now I don't know if it is Norexin, the slight carb increase, or the supersets introduction! But I can see the abs begining to pop up :) - and the love handles melting away quickly :) really awsome!

It is nice to hear from 'Dan' that whenever you quit using thermogenics your metabolism doesn't really slow down and you gain fat.

So happy with LC.
I got my friend hooked up with it (He is loosing fat like a snowman in the sun)
So happy to be a member of this great forum, speaking the truth, and linking to usefull resources. (like Nat's links ;))

Dan, when you say "short term" do you mean a full 120 capsules or less?

Thanks again to all of you

Loony :wave:

[beronia]

Hi I was just reading the threads on fatburners and thermogenics.I find they do help when taken before a workout. :rolleyes: But I havent taken them since starting the Atins diet because Im afraid that they will raise my insulin or glucose levels due to the caffiene and other ingredients.

:idea: Does anyone know if these products like hydrocycut or even thermoslim will throw you out of ketosis :q:

Thanx for any suggestions. ;)

[Trainerdan]

Dan, when you say "short term" do you mean a full 120 capsules or less?

Depending on your dosage, I suppose. I generally advise people to only stay on 8 to 12 weeks at a time ... but every personis different.

I find that physical dependency is greatly diminished when I follow a 5 on - 2 off schedule for the 12 weeks (5 days on, 2 days off). It also fits better in my plan (CKD), since weekends are dedicated to glycogen storage.

[Meg_S]

Hello, the discussion here seems to be talking about ECA stacks, I was wondering if anyone has any experience with thyroid "boosters," such as something with guggulsterones and there is also another product called tricuts II. They *seem* from what little I've read, to be an alternative to an ECA stack, one that would not keep you up at night.
Any help/information would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Meg

[Doodle]

So, Dan, I have established that due to being a complete nutcase, and being treated for it (prozac), I shouldn't take an ephedra based product... BUT... is there any alternative I CAN take? ANy recomendations? I can order off the net... Maybe a Thyroid type helper (like hamburger helper, hee hee heee!)? Other kinds of fat burners?...... do you think green tea really works? I have next to NO metabolism due to years of anorexia, and then yo-yoing hundreds of lbs back and forth. I don't weigh a whole lot now, but I have a really scary percentage of fat, much more than some 6ft something obese men I have read about! and I am only 5 ft 4.
Sorry to rant, thanks so much. I CANNOT WAIT FOR YOUR BOOK TO ARRIVE!
Doods.

[Trainerdan]

Hey doods!

There are alot of new ephedra-free products being released now that I have heard good things about ... The best marketed one being Xenadrine EFX (not the same as the ephedra-based Xenadrine RFA).

I also take a product called Lean Out (by Beverly Nutritionals) 4x per day, after whole food meals and 30 mins. before my workout ... it is supposed to be good, but I am also taking ephedra products and doing a bunch of things to enhance fat loss right now, so I can't be sure if the Lean Out is doing the job.

As far as thyroid boosters go, try Thyrolean or Guggulbolic. They are good products.

The book will tell you step by step on how to go about using diet and supplements in the right order to keep the metabolism up. When you get to the ephedra based part of the plan, use Xenadrine EFX ...

Looks like I have to get Version 2.0 of the book together to include non-ephedra strategies within my plan ... :daze:

[Flaxie]

Dan,
My company is coming out with an ephedra free product soon, as well. My partner is the one who knows all about these formulas, but in your opinion are there any other herbs to include or leave out, if you had your d'ruthers? We are leaving in the guarana, but taking out the ephedrine. I've not had any problems with epherdrine myself, even after many years of using it off and on, but I know some people do. Do you think the government is going to outlaw epherdrine based products all together?

Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

[Doodle]

Thanks fot that info Dan.
Do you think that flax oil REALLY helps us to burn fat?
Doods. :)

[fern2340]

flaxie , I have a few ideas about an ephedra free product which I will share here later (on my way to bed), but what REALLY is missing from the market is a COMPLETE thyroid support formula ... combining guggul, phosphates, kelp, and all of the other thyroid support nutrients. If it's out there, it's hiding ... LOL.

doods , yes, flax oil does help with fat loss, albiet in an indirect manner. It's not thermogenic, so you may not "feel" it, but flax (actually the Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids) are supportive in controlling the body's thermostat/metabolism according to D.O. Rudin in the book "The Omega-3 Phenomenon".

[Trainerdan]

OOPS! I didn't notice that Fern was still signed in when I sat down at the computer, so I posted as her by mistake in the reply to flaxie and doods. LOL. Sorry about that.

[Flaxie]

Ya know, I wonder about coconut oil, too....I swear the more I use the faster I lose. And it helps with energy, as well. I would be interested in hearing more about the thyroid support supplement....I wonder why nobody has come out with something comprehensive in that arena. Hmmm....
What's exciting is that there is so much opportunity in this industry....I think we have barely scratched the surface of what nutracueticals (spelling?) can do. Thanks for giving your input on this topic, it's very interesting.
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

[Doodle]

Originally posted by Trainerdan
OOPS! I didn't notice that Fern was still signed in when I sat down at the computer, so I posted as her by mistake in the reply to flaxie and doods. LOL. Sorry about that.

I was about to write and say thanks to Fern for replying to my question... :) . I think I will thank her anyway for all the information I have gained from reading what she HAS written...
Dan, stop stealing Fern's identity. ;)
And Thank YOU too!
Doods :wave:

[fern2340]

LOL Doods..... yep, I was in bed totally unaware that someone was trying to steal my identity! :)

[PineSlayer]

I am taking 1000 mg of Glucophage at night. Is anyone here taking both Metabolift and Glucophage?

Does anyone know of any contraindications?

It seems to me that the caffeine and ephedra are going to be things you could encounter in your diet anyway.

Thanks in advance,
Dee

[dizzyd]

Now how do we know that was really you??? :lol:

[Trainerdan]

Pineslayer ... Diabetics are contraindicated from taking ephedra based products. Most ephedra products carry a warning label that reads something like this:

"Consult a physician if you have any of the following conditions before using this product: heart disease, pregnant/nursing, high blood pressure, thyroid disease, kidney disease, diabetes, prostate enlargement, depression, or have any medical problem that requires taking medication. DO NOT USE IF YOU HAVE ASTHMA."

The reason for diabetics is the sudden change in blood suagr levels that may occur when using an ephedra-based product.

Play at your own risk!

[PineSlayer]

Dan,

Thanks for replying.

I seached the internet for 'ephedra caffeine diabetes' All I could find was warning against, but not why. :confused: Being an inquisitive sort of person, possibly a masochist ;), and able to monitor my blood glucose levels, I am going to see what it actually does.

In a post dated Feb-23-02, titled ok... in this thread, you said:
As for generics, the old tried and true is to take 20 mg of ephedrine hydrochloride, 200mg caffeine, and (if you want) 81 to 200mg aspirin.

The brand I already have (it's several years old, but there's no expiration date on it) is Metabolift (Mahuang Extract 334 mg; Guarana Extract 910 mg; Chromium Picolinate 200 mcg). It contains White Willow Bark Extract, not aspirin.

:q: Should I add 1/2 of a 325 gr aspirin tablet with each dose? Or was recommendation per day? Or is the White Willow Bark Extract sufficient? I'm starting with 1 Metabolift before breakfast and lunch.

I'll track my bg, see what it does, and post it in my journal, :q: unless people would like to see it here? :q:

:q: My normal body temp is between 96 and 97, so I want to get some ThyroLean. I couldn't find it at my health food store yesterday, so I will order it from www.VitaminShoppe.com.

Again, thank your for your time and caring.

[shae]

Hi Everyone,

I have been taking a thermogenic for the last 2 1/2 weeks. I have also been working out at least 5 hrs a week & am following pp. I weigh 127 & would like to loose 5 lbs. My question is : do thermogenics work for everyone? It dosent seem to be working for me. I was wondering if it has anything to do with the caffeine. Before taking the thermogenic, I had no caffeine in my diet. I heard that caffeine can stop weight lose. Or is it because I have only 5 lbs to loose & it takes longer? I have read up on therogenics & the one I am taking seems to have all the "right stuff" in it.

Thanks shae

[Meg_S]

This is not an answer, but in relation to your question I have tried thermogenics four different times (different brands) and while they certainly gave me an energy high, I did not experience ANY weight loss... maybe it is an individual thing, maybe my body does not like caffeine. (well I know it doesn't)
I am about to try (it should arrive in the mail tomorrow) Guggulbolic, or something with a similar name. I am hoping it will help with these last few pounds that exercise does not want to touch.
Good luck!
Meg

[Trainerdan]

White willow bark = aspirin

[shae]

Hey MEG S

Thanks for the response. Let us know if Guggulbolic works!

shae

[PineSlayer]

Based on the past two days, Metabolift seems to be okay for me, but Thyrolean raises my blood sugar, gives me a headache, and generates huge carb cravings.
if you're interested in the details, see page 2 of my journal.

I'm still experimenting, it's too early to have a definitive answer yet.

[PAMMYSUE]

Hi all,


I am confused....... :confused:

Your talking about thermogenics. Is this taking products like Metabolife or Dexatrim etc. If you are on the Atkins Diet and also using Protein Powder, why would you want to also take those pills. Arent you doing to much to your body at once. May sound like a crazy question but?????

I took metabolife for awhile before starting Atkins and I didnt care for it. Yes it gave me more energy but it also made me chittery and also didnt see much result.

If anyone could enlighten me I would appreciate it.


Pam :wave:

[pegm]

I am on Atkins and just started taking thermogenics. The reason is that my metabolism is so messed up from a combination of years of not eating enough calories and also from stopping smoking. I stall for very long periods of time, then tend to lose a couple of pounds only to regain them a few days later. My body temperature is very low -- between 96 and 97, confirming that my metabolism is messed up.

I am hoping the thermogenics will boost my metabolism and get the weight loss going.

[PAMMYSUE]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Your subject here interest me but I am lost.

What book are we talking about ? Can you spell out what we should be taking exactly? Or better yet what are you taking exactly and what is your current condition? (lost all your wait and this is maintenance or in the middle of loosing weight).


Now that 20 questions is over. I am looking for something to help speed up the weight loss. Is this what Iam looking for?

:bhug:
Pam

[shae]

Hi Pam,

Sorry I'm confused too.... Are you talking about my post "Hi Everyone"?

shae

[PAMMYSUE]

Yes Shae,

You were talking about thermogenic products. Also Trainerdan
was too. I just trying to get all this info and see what to do next. Be confused with me :D

Pammysue

[shae]

Hey Pam

The info I read on thermogenics is from this web site:
drumlib.com It has lots of info on different products.
As far as far as my current condition, I am finding as I'm getting older (40) & already perimenopausal, that 5 lbs I always meant to get rid of is now 10lbs. I've been following atkins & pp but seem to be stuck. Hopeing this will help. Seems thermogenics have helped some people.

shae :D

[fern2340]

Originally posted by dizzyd
Now how do we know that was really you??? :lol:

Too funny!
Maybe Dan was trying to confuse everyone! LOL Really me now.... Dan is at work at this time! :)

[elizz]

I am new to the forum but started lc-ing in July. From the information in this thread I started taking Hydroxycut in March. All I can say is I lost 11 pounds in one month. I recently stopped for two weeks and started taking Thyrolean. I have since lost another 5 pounds. I am eating the same amount, probably more. I have tried to follow TrainerDan's advice to the letter (thanks by the way) and it works!! Since March 3 people at my gym have said that they have noticed a big difference in my muscle tone, including my instructor. I just thought I would share this with anyone who is considering thermogenics but not sure about taking them. They did work for me, but that is not necessarily the case for everyone. Thank you everyone for the great advice in this forum. :D

[shelxland]

I just wanted to say thanks all for the helpful tips in this thread.

I was taking diet fuel and getting great results but was talked into trying Xenadrine by the GNC clerk. I understand it's relatively the same product but I hated it! Maybe it's psychological, who knows.

Instead I stopped taking it and couldn't afford Diet Fuel again at the time. Those little jars are expensive!!! :p

Now I had started taking Hydroxycut. 4 weeks into it in fact. But it's almost like something is telling me not to take it. I've ordered it online twice. Once they were out of stock and the second company took our money and we've not heard from them since. They're still online by the way, nathigh.com. They're 800# and fax numbers are out of our area and they don't reply to emails.

So I resorted to buying it at Walmart, but they are *always* out. Friday the clerk said it would be in Saturday, but even today... no Hydroxycut.

So, utterly frustrated, I switched back to Diet Fuel today.

Is there a huge difference that anyone knows about? Is there some secret reason that Walmart always has Diet Fuel and never Hydroxycut?

TIA!!

Shelley :)

[unsweetend]

Dan... I'm hoping for some feedback from you on this, and I now have a question due to one of your comments in an earlier posting in this thread... but first my question.

I'm currently taking Ultimate Diet Fuel, but I'm about to switch to a product called Nytro Burn by Sports Science Research, as far as I can tell the active ingredient of each of these products is different from the other, so I'm wondering if I should allow for a "weaning" period between switching or is just going from one to the other okay?

Though now to be honest I'm a tad concerned about this new product as it contains PPA - and I read your post that said the FDA has banned PPA; could you provide more information on that. I was under the impression that this Nytro Burn product was fairly new so I'm wondering how they get away with having PPA in it.

This is the info off the label:
L-Tyrosine 500 mg
Guggul Herb Extract 250 mg
Calcium Phosphate 1074 mg
Potassium Phosphate 214 mg
Sodium Phosphate 50 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 200 mg
Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) 100 mg
PPA (L-Norephedrine) 25 mg
D-Pinitol 25 mg
Bioperine 5 mg

Thanks in advance for your feedback, I really appreciate it.

[Chloep]

Hi,

I'm starting myself on CLA. From what I've read, sounds like a wonder supplement !!

Am also reading 'The fat flush plan' by Ann Louise Gittleman.
Sounds like a great diet.
Any comments ??

Cheers :)

[Trainerdan]

Shelxland ... Sorry to hear about the rough experiences your are having getting Hydroxy. If you look at the labels, the two products are pretty close to being the same, Hydroxy having a few more bells and whistles. The reason Wal-Mart must be out of Hydroxy all the time is probably due to MuscleTech's outrageous ad campaign for Hydroxy (in magazines, and now on TV too). They make some pretty outrageous claims for it.

Allstarhealth.com had Xenadrine for $23.00 US today, Muscledepot.com has Hydroxycut (140 capsules) for $25.99 today and they are reliable ... they also have Diet Fuel (180 caps) for $22.99.

I think Diet Fuel is a better product anyway, due to the green tea.

Elizz ... CONGRATULATIONS! :cheer: Those are great results! I am glad that everything is working for you. Keep us posted, and thanks for the positive feedback.

Unsweetnd ... Wow. That looks like a great product. They must be a small company who is "under the radar" of the FDA for now. I'm gonna see about getting me some of that ... LOL ... Thanks for the tip. It has a good combo of thryroid support along with nor-ephedrine (PPA) and ALA. Nice to use after your body has adapted to a standard E/C stack. The stuff's a little pricey though ($45 per bottle!?!)

Chloep ... CLA is a great product. Studies indicated a dose of 4 - 5 grams per day is effective in fat loss, especially in the abdominal area. As you can see, this could get expensive. I am currently taking it, and I am getting leaner. I also think it is helping with increasing muscle, but I am also taking so many things right now it is hard to tell what is working and what isn't. LOL.

As for the fat flush plan, I am sorry but I am unfamiliar with it. I believe that there is a thread about it elsewhere on the forums here ...

[schoolnigh]

will Metaboloss or other similiar weight-loss pills affect ketosis? if so, in a positive or negative way??!

[unsweetend]

Thanks Dan,

Great to get your feedback... I don't know if it was a fluke, but I got a bottle for $25 CDN (after buying one previously for $60 at GNC "under the counter"). If you'd like the 1-800 # for the company I bought it from you can email me for it.

[elizz]

TrainerDan,

I wanted to know if I need to increase weightlifting when I go off of the Thyrolean for the 2 week period. Also, do I need to restrict carbs even more during this period since I am not getting the thermogenic "burn" anymore? Any information would be greatly appreciate - you have already been extremely helpful! :)

This is a bit off the subject, but I wanted to know how to increase muscle definition in my shoulders specifically. I am supersetting now three times a week - doing front lateral raises, side raises, and shoulder press w/ 10lb. free weights. I do this very quickly w/ only a few seconds of rest between reps (I do 4 sets of 10 reps for each exercise). I have definition but would like more.

Again, any advice would be great! Thank you!

[heathbme]

Hi. I just wanted to pop in and say that I have been taking the ephedra free xenadrine and I am not jittery etc.I had tried the ephedra version and only lasted two days on it because it made me very aggresive I took it once after that to check & see if the mood thing was a flukeand I had the same results.
I really like the xenedrine efx. I t has green tea too.
It seems to have jump started my weight loss,so I'm a fan.


thanks-
heathbme

[heathbme]

:daze:
Sorry, I wanted to let schoolnigh know that using thermogenics with caffiene hasn't knocked me out of ketosis!

heathbme

[Doodle]

So Dan, after doing much reading of these posts... I ordered some thyrolean and some xenadrine EFX. They arrived today.. Is it ok to take them together? they shouldn't affect my precariously balanced menatal state... should they? ;) thanks Dan...
Doods.

[PAMMYSUE]

Dear Dan,

Seems your the man to ask the questions to. Can I ask you
for a little advice? :confused:

I have been on the Atkins Diet for 2 months, lost 18 pds, about
10 inches. I am taking the the Adkins Formula # 3 (mutli/vitamin with minerals) Atkins essential oils. I started taking Colostrum and I would like to get on a fat burner. I hear you talking about Xenadrine EFX and Hydroxycut and Thyrolean. Are they all fat burners and can they all be taken together. I also have a slight problem with an enlarged thyroid. Will these products bother that at all?

Hope you can help me or someone can. Any advise will be deeply appreciated.

Pam :wave:

[shelxland]

Okay... day 2 of the switch to Diet Fuel and all seems to have transferred well.

I do have a green tea question and didn't know whether to include it in this category or not since it's *in* the diet fuel...

Green tea, whether taken in a supplement or a drink, always seems to make my sinuses a little raw feeling (you know like after you've been swimming in chlorinated water). Does it do this to anyone else? Is it a regular side effect of green tea or could it be an allergy?

My typical reaction to everything I am allergic to is hives on my face and chest. No hives with green tea, just sinus issues.

Any ideas??

Thanks!

[Trainerdan]

DOODS ... I believe you can take them together, BUT if you read chapter 1 of that great book you just got, you will see a better way to do it and make use of both products when the time is right .... ;)

Heathbme ... Thanks for clearing up the thermogenic/ketosis issue. I don't measure with Stix anymore, but I know the "ketobreath" and "ketostank" are more enhanced when I am on LC and thermogenics, which would suggest that they don't. But, you called it. Thanks.

PammySue ... The enlarged thyroid concerns me, and I think an ephedrine based product may be a no-go. However, ephedrine-free formulas may be the thing for you, and Thyrolean or Guggulbolic should be OK for you ...

Shelxland ... Never had or heard of that experience with green tea. The Diet Fuel gives you this reaction, that's odd. I wonder if anyone else here has that same reaction ???

[shelxland]

Not just the Diet Fuel, any green tea. I have a friend who brought me some tea back from a trip to Japan. I love the taste and know that there are some wonderful health benefits linked to green tea. But drinking the tea has this same effect on me.

My herbalist has never heard of it before either but suspects it has more to do with somehow needing the tea rather than being allergic. She was going to ask around and get back to me today too.

:q:

[Skinny2]

There are too many threads to go through right now... and I'm REALLY TIRED.... so, I'm wondering if you know if there is a relationship between taking Metabolite and fatigue. It seems I've been really tired since I started taking them. I only take one 1-hour before a meal. I do get a little hyper for awhile, however, there seems to be a crash after about 1 hour.

Is this just a coincidence? I also have hay fever and I know that makes me tired too.

Thx....

[Flaxie]

Hi...
I own a supplement company that has a popular thermogenic. I would never have believed this was possible (getting tired when taking them) until my cousin had the exact same response as what you're saying. (not with my diet pill, but a similar brand) Turns out she has A.D.D. and the stimulants in the diet pill were calming her down. WAYYYYY down. LOL
Happy Lowcarbing,
Julee

[brianna53]

and just started reading this thread and am interested in taking a stack of some kind. i have a borderline thyroid, (hypo) not treated by meds. makes weight loss sluggish. i have a generic hydroxycut-like supplement at home and want to know if that's ok. and i bought trainerdans book and wondered if the answers to the above questions are in it or somewhere on the board.

i work out 5 days a week at curves for women and walk 2 miles each morning.

brianna

[brianna53]

ummm, what do the little egg cup things mean by our posts?

brianna

[brianna53]

about Lowcarber's Miracle!!!

brianna

[dizzyd]

Hi there;

Three things: First and most importantly, welcome to the boards! You will be so amazed at the amount of support you find here. I have been so blessed by the people here, and you will be too!

http://jabot2000.homestead.com/files/emoticons/thup.gif

Second, you should post the ingredients list on your supplement if you want an opinion on it. That will make it easier for Dan or anyone else to offer any suggestions.

Third, the egg cups are a measure system which indicates how many times you have posted on the boards. You'll notice that some people have eggs, some have chicken legs, some have steaks, and so on. If you click on the eggs, a window will come up that will tell you how many posts are which icons.

So, that's it for now. I look forward to seeing you around the boards!

http://jabot2000.homestead.com/files/emoticons/surfin.gif

[Meg_S]

Hi there! I posted a couple of weeks ago asking about guggulsterones, and thought I would mention my progress so far.

I've been taking them for two weeks in conjunction with a product called TriCutsII, which has ephedra in it, and weightlifting.
So far no changes.. have not been using fat calipers only measuring tape/scale/noticing how clothes fit.
I don't feel the expected effects either - which is supposed to be a noticable rise in body temperature.

It is funny that the topic of ephedra making people feel sluggish has come up - because the major drop in energy the only side effect I have noticed while taking this stack.

What do you think? I do not consume caffeine for personal health reasons.. should I be adding it to my diet to lose fat? Should the ephedrine be dropped because it is making me tired instead of energetic - or does that have nothing to do with the actual fat loss?

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks!
Meg

[SlimShAdY]

Hey Dan, I gotta question..or anyone else who might know :confused: I've read pretty much every reply and a few ppl mentioned thyroid but I'm still confused..

I had my thyroid removed, am on medication for it.. considered "hypo" but my doctor said my levels are normal and so my thyroid is normal.. Um ok.. Anyways, because of this, and years of yo-yoing and starving myself.. I have a dead metabolism..Is there anything I can take to help and give me a boost?

I tried metabolite for a week before, I didn't have any problems with it. I asked my doctor and pharmacist about being hypo and taking drugs like Xenadrine, metabolite ect.. And they just said they don't approve of diet drugs/boosters and said it was up to me if I want to take them..so.. :confused: Its funny though because they approve that more then Atkins. :rolleyes:

And about caffeine, I used to be addicted to Coke! Yes the soda!! Most people need coffee when they wake up, I'd need coke..lol And it used to make me gain weight.. So would a product with caffeine in it make me gain weight? I don't think it would if I'm still drinking enough water.. :confused:

[Trainerdan]

Not meaning to offend any doctors out there, but form my talks with a few doctors of my clients, they had no clue when I was talking to them about T3/T4 uptake, and many other metabolic processes that can be accelerated/manipulated by diet and supplements.

Granted, these were all family practice doctors, not endocinologosts, but still to say "diet boosters are bad" and not do full research makes me doubt the opinions given by those who are not specialists, or have a special interest in the field.

So, LOL, you can see that I don't have a doctor. LOL. I am looking for one in my area that is either a fitness-minded person, or has studied this sort of field.

ANYWAY, that's my little rant. I have a hard time taking exercise advice/diet advice from an overweight middle-aged man who is clearly not the picture of health (my last 3 doctors).

One actually told me to stop lifting weights! It went like this:

Doc: "So Dan, do you workout?"
Me: "Yes, I am a personal trainer, as it says on that form I had to fill out for you. I workout, yes."
Doc: "Hmmm ... Looking at your chart, it says you had a heart murmur when you were younger. Lifting weights may be bad for you."
Me: "What was that?"
Doc:"Yes. Lifting weights causes a great overexertion on your heart, and it may cause problems for you."
Me: "A murmur from when I was 16 will cause problems for me now?"
Dr: "It might, you never know. It may reoccur. To be safe, I would suggest you stop lifting weights."
Me: "Hmmm. How about running, can I run?"
Dr: "Just don't push yourself too hard."
Me: "Define that."
Dr: "Some light jogging is OK, but don't go too hard."

You can see where that goes ... LOL ... It got ugly, and I left. When I compete next year, I'm gonna send him a picture. When I break 300 pounds on my bench, I'm gonna send him a pic of that too.

SO, LOL, back to the questions ...

SLIM: I personally don't see how caffeine would make weight loss sluggish or cause weight gain. The 35g of sugar in each can of Coke, however, I can see how that will cause a fat gain. :p

Brianna: The answers are in Chapter 1. LOL. It covers it all, and then some.

Meg: Ephedra by itself gave only marginal results in studies. It is the combo of Ephedra and Caffeine that was the breakthrough. But, if you have health reasons for not taking caffeine, then I would say not to take it.

[SlimShAdY]

Originally posted by Trainerdan
SLIM: I personally don't see how caffeine would make weight loss sluggish or cause weight gain. The 35g of sugar in each can of Coke, however, I can see how that will cause a fat gain. :p


LoL hmm 35g per can, and I'd drink about 4 or 5..Yep guess that could deffinetly be the reason why.. :o

Anyways one more Question.. Do you have any suggestions as to what product I should try to boost my metabolism..

I'm a lil lost when it comes to this stuff lol =X :roll:

[Trainerdan]

When I first started taking thermogenics, I started with Diet Fuel.

Read the label, and start with 1 pill when you take it.

What is your body temperature first thing in the AM?... as soon as you wake up, I mean.

There are a bunch of product out there. The ephedra-based ones are more popular.

If you are using an ephedra-based one, you could try Beta-Lean by EAS. It has a good stack of good fat loss ingredients in addition to the ephedra/caffeine. It didn't make me too speedy either ... The Lowcarber's Miracle product looks good (read the label) and looks to provide a good array of nutritional support to the LCer, but I have never taken the product, so I can't tell you how it "feels".

I haven't taken it YET I should say ... LOL ... soon. There will be a road test soon.

If you are looking to avoid epedra/caffeine, try a very easy, often overlooked vitamin first. Take a B-complex vitamin.

Few people realize that the B-complex vitmins help release
energy from food, which increases available body energy. Several of the B-complex vitamins are directly linked to metabolism and the metabolism of fats.

But, the big benefit I am talking about is the positive effect some of the B-complex vitamins have on the nervous and musculoskeletal systems.

The B-complex vitamins are:

B1 (thiamin)
B2 (riboflavin)
B3 (niacin/niacinamide)
B6 (pyridoxine)
B12 (cobalamin/cyanoobalamin)
Folic Acid (folacin)
D-calcium pantothenate
Pantothenic acid (panthenol/pantothenate)
Biotin
Para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA)
Choline
Inositol
Vitamin B15 (pangamic acid/calcium pangamate)

If you feel sluggish, low on energy or have a hard time losing body-fat, don't spend one more cent on fancy supplements without first building a powerful foundation of B Vitamins. You may not even need other fat loss products.

Look for a formula that contains as many of these as you can find .

[Skinny2]

Originally posted by Skinny2
and I'm REALLY TIRED.... so, I'm wondering if you know if there is a relationship between taking Metabolite and fatigue. It seems I've been really tired since I started taking them. I only take one 1-hour before a meal. I do get a little hyper for awhile, however, there seems to be a crash after about 1 hour.

Followup to my last post (see quote above). Well, I stopped taking Metabolite 3 days ago and I feel great! It's actually 2:45pm on a Monday afternoon when I usually feel at my worst, any day of the week. You know that old song... I hate Mondays...

On the one hand, I'm happy that I feel better but on the other hand, I wish it had worked for me.

I don't have thyroid problems, so I don't know what the reason could be.

I've got 2 bottles of the things, so, I'm actually giving them to a friend who took them successfully in the past. However, she is currently on Parkinson's medication. Wonder how that will affect her? Yikes!

[Meg_S]

Hello! I would like to turn what I am currently taking into a "stack," as Dan said that ephedra alone was not nearly as effective as ephedra w/ caffeine, and was wondering if anyone can help me with this. I want to know if I can merely take a caffeine capsule (or drink) with what I have now, or if I have to go out and buy something separate.

I have a product called Tri-Cuts II.
ingredients:
L-tyrosine 100mg
1R, 2S Norephedrine 25 mg
Coleus Forscolin 20mg
Yohimbe HCI 6mg
3,5-Dilodo-L-Tyrosine 50mcg

recommeded dosage 2 doses daily.
Can I just add a caffeine capsule to it, or drink strong tea?
And what does the aspirin/white willow do for the stack? I remember hearing that it helped block pain so one could push harder in a workout, but have the feeling that is not it.

Any help is really appreciated.
Thanks!
Meg

[Trainerdan]

Yep. A simple Vivarin or strong cup of tea/coffee will complete the stack.

Forget the asprin. It is believed to help extend the duration of the stack, but it is not necessary. The ephedrine/caffeine combo are the big dogs.

[brianna53]

i ordered myself some today. i have a borderliine thyroid. one that my GP always insists be tested by my endo always says is acceptable. so something to kick start my thyroid is good. i lose weight very slowly even when i stop all sugar/junk/white food. it's SO FRUSTRATING.

and hey, guys, have you ever used http://www.fitday.com? you enter what you eat and what you do (activities). it does ALL the figuring for you. i was SHOCKED to see how UN low-carb i really was some days!!!

brianna

[_wilow]

Hi all,
As I've said here before, I've been on Slenderweigh for 3 years and it has 12 mg of alkoloids of ephedra and also caffeine. It has worked really really well for me BUT I'm nervous about longterm effects because there's a history of heart disease in my family. So... I'm thinking of trying something else and wondered if anyone has heard of the herballife ephedra free products and know if they would be worth it?
Thanks for your time. Lisa

[Doodle]

Dan, y'know the way Atkins and others say "cut out all caffeine as it impedes weight loss"... Well, I am sure you can guess my question... Conflicting messages... IS it different to coffee caffeine?!?
Doods.

[Trainerdan]

I never understood why Atkins says that.

Caffeine helps to burn fatty acids. It is a fat loss tool, as well as a performance enhancing tool (so much so that if Olympic athletes take too much, they can get disqualified).

There is alot (ALOT) of research out there that proves that caffeine assists in fat loss.

[dizzyd]

I can have my real coffee back????? :hyper: You have no idea how happy I am to hear that!!!

I read that about caffeine in the book, and ever since have been having a real mental dilemma. I love my coffee! I started mixing real coffee and decaf together so that it was about 60% decaf. Everytime I went to Starbucks or someplace for a real coffee, I always had to contemplate if I wanted a real one or a decaf. Well, no more!!! It's real coffee for me from now on!

Yeeee-haaaaaa!!!!!

Thank you, thank you, a thousand thank you's!!!

:D

[Meg_S]

Hello! I was wondering if anyone can send me the last newsletter that came out. I thought I was finished with it and so deleted it, but want to send one of the articles to my grandmother.
My email is meg_stearns~hotmail.com
Thanks!!
Meg

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Trainerdan
I never understood why Atkins says that.

Dan, I think he's worried about caffeine's diuretic effect (especially when starting on Induction). I could be wrong. Interestingly, PP doesn't ask you to give up your coffee/tea.

N

[billw]

Has anyone had any experience with these 2 thermogenics from SYNTRAX.

1. MM4 - serving size 1-2 capsules
Coleonol/Forskolin - 20mg
from 100mg coleus forskolii Leaf Extract
Synephrine - 5mg
Bergenin - 100mg
Gingerols & Shogaols - 10mg
from 50mg Ginger Root Extract

2. Adrenergic beta3 Octopamine - Serving size 1-2 capsules
Octopamine HCI - 100mg
Norsynephrine HCI

The labels say they can be taken together to boost the synergistic effect. Is this an NYC stack or something different?

I started taking Thyrolean on monday to try and boost my metabolism since my waking temps have been under 97 degrees. My temp usually gets up to normal by around 1pm. Shouldn't I see my waking temp going up also?

Can yohimbe be taken with thyrolean?

sorry for all the questions.

Bill

[SlimShAdY]

Originally posted by billw

I started taking Thyrolean on monday to try and boost my metabolism since my waking temps have been under 97 degrees. My temp usually gets up to normal by around 1pm. Shouldn't I see my waking temp going up also?

Can yohimbe be taken with thyrolean?



Dunno about that other stuff..lol but has thyrolean worked for you? Or anyone else?? I was thinking of trying it since I have a thyroid and metabolism problem.. :confused:

[billw]

Hi Slimshady, It hasn't started working yet. It may take a couple of weeks before it starts working.

Bill

[Trainerdan]

I haven't tried either of those yet Bill, but I do intend to do some research on Beta3. I have never heard of the first ingredient, but then again, Syntrax is always on the cutting edge.

Maybe I should e-mail ol' Patrick and get the scoop on the science of it .... :confused:

Looks intriguing, anyway. But I want to know how and what it's doing in my body before I try it. LOL.

[shyoned]

I must say that I don't know if it is making a difference in the amount of weight I am losing, but it sure is making a difference in my energy level. I haven't needed a nap since I started taking it. And for me that is saying something. I am usually yawning so bad by noon, that by the time I get home I am so tired, it is painful.

2 thumbs up from me!! (I am still taking the 2 tablets 2 times a day that is recommended for week one) I will increase to 2nd weeks recommendation in a day or two

[Meg_S]

Hi Bill, In response to your message, I am currently using a Syntrax product that has forskolin out of the ingredients you listed, and though I don't really know the Science behind it, in my three weeks experience I have not noticed any effects, side or otherwise. This past week I have lost a little bit of fat, but I don't know if it is from the stack I am taking or the change in diet.
As for the ginger in there.. well if it is from the real ginger root and not something synthetic, you can't go wrong with ginger. It promotes circulation as well as many other wonderful things, it's available to eat, in teas, in a spice and I think you would have to make it an obsession if you wanted to overdose.

Just my two cents, sorry I couldn't give you more info!
Meg

[PAMMYSUE]

:wave:
Hi everyone::::


Dan or anyone, I am up for any advice.


I have been on the Adkins Diet for about 2 months and have
lost 18 inches and 22 pounds. I have hit a wall though.

I have not seen anything more for two weeks.

I am taking vitamins: Adkins #3 and Adkins Essential Oils

I started taking Xenadrine EFX (2 2X A DAY) I am taking EFX
because I have had a thyroid problem.

My questions is: Is this a good combination of vitamins,
metabolism booster and along with exercise to me sounds like
a good combination to loosing weight. Is it????

I hate to take things that you find out cancel each other out
and dont work together etc.

Any advice anyone can give I would appreciate it.

I hope everyone one else is having great progress.

"""LIFE IS TO SHORT, LIVE IT TO THE FULLEST AND BE NICE TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS""""""


:wave: PAMMYSUE

[Carrencut]

Bascially a question for Trainer Dan or anybody else that might know.

I started taking a generic "stacker" type product. It basically had the ingredients recommended plus a few:

Three tabs contain:
20 mg Panothenic Acid
500 mg Tonalin CLA
200 mg caffiene from Guarana Extract
15 mg Salicin (assuming the same as aspirin??) from White Willow extract
20 mg Ephedrine group alkaloids from Ma Huang Extract
15 mg Ginger

I've read here not to take full dosage but work your way up to full dosage. I'm taking the week on/weekend off approach adding Friday to the weekend off.

My question is this:

Should I have to reduce the dosage each Monday and taper my way up again? I've totally left caffeine out of my diet for several months now and have been following BFL for 8 weeks. I only took them as follows last week:

One tab twice a day on Tues.
Two tabs in the am and one tab at lunch on Wed.
Two tabs in the am and 2 tabs at lunch on Thus.
I totally left them off on Fri, Sat and Sunday.

I felt totally energized these days but wasn't really tired enough to sleep the full 8 hours these nights.

And today after taking 2 tabs in the am and two tabs at noon today, I feel quite jittery.

Any suggestions??

Thanks in advance to the "all-knowing" who respond!!

Carol

[cjs1]

Can anyone tell me how long it takes for Hydroxycut to start working? I have been taking it for 4 weeks now. I did their recommended "ease myself in" 1 pill 2x a day for 1 week, 2 pills 2x a day for 1 week, 3 pills 2x a day ongoing. I'm at 2 pills in the AM, 3 in the PM because that's about all I can handle, and I've been doing that for 1 week.

I see myself getting more "cut" - I work out 3x a week with weights, 3x cardio. I'm not loosing any pounds though. Should I be loosing pounds?

Does anyone recommend I try another product like Xenadrine or Diet Fuel?

Thank you in advance for your replies & advice!

Christy

[fern2340]

Originally posted by cjs1
I'm not loosing any pounds though. Should I be loosing pounds?


Did you take your measurements Christy?? They tend to be much more effective than the scale. Have they dropped any?

[IYONNA]

I have to put my 2 cents in, i am on atkins lost 20 lbs, then was STUCK for 4 months,did everything right no lbs, couple inches then 2 months ago i stared to Carb up on saturdays and Sundays(thanks to dan :wave: )go back to atkins on Monday i was also taking Xenedrine RFA and to date i have lost a total of 17lbs while carbing up and taking Xenedrine, so folks it do work for some people
give it a try if u don"t like chuck it :) :)

i am now weighing 229lbs and going down :) :)

iyonna :wave: :)

[cjs1]

You make a very good point about measuring myself. For some reason, I never have done it, although I now wish I did. I've been LC'ing for 6 mths now and this weekend was the first time I took my measurements. So, in the next few weeks I'll be able to see if I'm loosing inches, even if I'm not loosing lbs.

Thanks for the tip!!

Christy

[PAMMYSUE]

Thanks for your two cents Iyonna. Sounds like a good idea.
Not to mention it would be nice to be able to have a couple
of new foods on the weekends. I am taking Xendrine EFX, been
on it for 1 week now. Iam going to take my measurements
tonight and see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

Hope everyone has a great 4th of July, anyone have any other
suggestions love to hear them.


Pammysue

[AngelaR]

I started taking Extreme Ripped Fuel this week to help boost my metabolism. I have developed a dull headache. Is this common? Do thermogenics increase blood flow (therefore blood pressure?)? If it's common does it normally go away once your body adjusts, or is this a sign that thermogenics are not compatible with how my body works?

Detailed info..
Tuesday - 1 pill before lunch. BFL Upper body workout about 2pm
Wednesday - 2 pills before early morning 20MAS, 1 pill before lunch
Thursday - no pills yet

Since Monday I cut out all coffee, which was usually only 2 cups of black coffee first thing in the morning.

I am prone to migraines, triggered by anything that increases blood flow to the head. I tried taking ginsing and various female herbal hormone replacement remedies but had to stop all of them within 3 or 4 days because they contained ingredients that increased blood flow to the head, and caused dull all day long headaches.

Since I started LCing, migraines and chronic headaches have gone away completely, unless I eat something or take a supplement that is a trigger.

I haven't been able to determine if the dull headache is from the Extreme Ripped Fuel, or from the intense heat this week (although I have been hybernating inside in the air conditioning)

Any info would be appreciated. I'm mostly interested in finding out more about how the body reacts to the start of a thermogenic routine, so I can make a decision as to whether to continue or not.

ps - I spent time yesterday searching this forum for references to thermogenics and headaches and found nothing.

[Kara]

...RIGHT???

I have a question for the "INSPIRING (-looking" at least, :blush: nice pic TD) TrainerDan":

If someone is sensitive to caffiene to the point of chronic insomnia, they can't do the stack, so can they do just the nat-ephed & aspirin combo with any fx? I CANNOT do caffiene. Also I had heart surgry on a valve when I was 3. I have decent BP now, low chol, and work out cardio 30 mins NP's. Will my doc laugh at me if I ask if its safe for me to take a nat-ephed?

Thanks
Kara :confused:

[Dollygrrl]

Wow, this is quite an informative discussion y'all have going on here!

I too have decided to try out an ECA stack. After visiting Drumlib.com and checking out the price comparison page, I decided to try Metabolift first (for half dose), and then use Stacker 2 when I want full dose. I'm one of those people that isn't bothered/affected much by caffiene and stimulants, and so far I haven't noticed any difference in the way I feel on 1/2 dose.

Thanks for mentioning body temperaure, I ought to check mine in the mornings while I'm taking this. Its usually under 97 :( maybe ECA will help up it.

[Meg_S]

Are there certain times of the day where it is more effective to take an ECA stack? For example, only on an empty stomach.
I eat every 3-4 hours so I don't think it is ever empty except early AM.

Thanks!
Meg

[fridayeyes]

Some people take their ECA about half an hr before working out, so they get the boost for the WO. I take mine on an empty stomach for AM cardio, then another by 3 pm. If I have caffiene any later than that, it keeps me up.

Hope that helps.

Friday

[Kara]

I just bought it then read somewhere about Guarana root, is that a natural ephedra, or am i mistaken?
I just dont want to take any ephedra products.
I had heart surgury & have mild hypertension when stressed. I am IR & PCOS as well.
I need to lose 40 lbs, have lost 10

It contains:
Calcium Pyruvate 250mg
HCA 250mg
Fucus vesiculosis 130mg
guarana root 80mg
kola nut 75mg
uva ursi (10% arbutin) 100mg
Gymnema sylvestre (25% gym. acid) 30mg
Vanadyl sulfate 100mcg
[in a 14% gelatin/86% h20 capsule]

recommended to take by body weight
on an empty stomach
<125lbs 4 caps
150-180 5 caps
180-225 6 caps
>225 8 caps

I was taking 2 sets of 3 caps (I'm 200 lbs)
then stopped, b/c I didnt know what I was taking.
I THOUGHT that I had bought a supplement that contained cayenne & other thermo-whatever nutrients, but this was beside it on the shelf & cheaper for more caps, and I screwed up.

I get really spinny on these, so i read the label & saw the ingreds & went whoa nelly!
thanks for any help
Kara :q: :q: :confused: :confused: :q: :q:

[YaroZ]

Hi there and welcome all my first time on forum :)
First of all, please, forgive my my terrible english :rolleyes:

I've begun my fat-loosing crusade abount 5 months ago. It was just a normal, hi-carbohydrate, low caloric diet with aerobic exercises 5 days per week (2 hours of bicycle trips at good speed).

In the last two months i've also started carefully ECA power-ups. As i have alergie to aspirine, i use mix of Ephedra 60 and Caffeine 200 form Kaizen, without any aspirine or salicile boosting.

On this time, i've lost 30 kilograms (66 pounds) including much of my lean body mass (low-caloric diet , decrased methabolism , exercises) :(

Now i am impressed with my friend's results on hi-fat, hi-proteins, low-carbo diet (calling here in Poland kato or CKD diet, which is quite similar to Atkin's diet i suppose), and i've decided to try the same to loos rest of my fattie :D

I will put away thermogenic stacks in kato-phase and will take them in carbohydrate-up phase (1 day of last 6 low-carbo days in each week).

Now i'am on third day of "fat-diet" , keto-diastix strips shows ketones in my urine :rolleyes: - my body is in state of kethosis. I hope my kidneys and liver will survive this ;)

I am gonna make a diary, so it should be preserved for posterity :D

[_wilow]

Hi Kara,
Guarana is caffiene I'm fairly sure and mahung in ephedra. Good luck and also welcome aboard "beerman". Lisa

[lisavasil]

what is the thoughts on this new product? How can it possibly work? If anyone has any thoughts, let me know!




Clinically Proven Weight Loss
Results 830% greater than diet and exercise alone!


Boost Metabolism
Control Appetite
No Caffeine
No Ephedrine
No Ma Huang
No stimulants
Natural Fat Burner
Fast Weight Loss
Safe and effective
No Failure
32% increased energy levels

If you've watched the news lately, there's little doubt that you've heard of the ill effects and dangers of using any stimulant based weight loss products.
As effective as they have been for a lot of people, the risk is just too high.

A lot of people saw these risky and dangerous products as their way to lose weight. But if you suffer from high blood pressure, hypertension, diabetes and many other conditions, the risk of something going wrong using such stimulant based weight loss products is immesurably high.

Now there's finally a solution. With Thermogenics Plus containing Phosphosterine™ you can burn fat, lose weight and get more energy without the risk associated with products containing stimulants such as MaHuang or Ephedra.

Thermogencis Plus with Phosphosterine™ naturally speeds up your metabolism which causes your body to burn food and fat much faster.

[AngelaR]

Lisa

I'm by far not an expert on thermogenics, but I have these observations. If I understand this thermogenics properly, the important part of the thermogenics is the ECA stack (ephedra, caffeine, aspirin). The product you mention doesn't have any of those things, so I don't understand how it can be a thermogenic. To me, it sounds like a wonder pill for quick weight loss, advertised as a stimulant free stack, to get people's interest. I may be completely wrong on this.

I did an internet search on Thermogencis Plus with Phosphosterine and came up with a pile of sites. The one that caught my eye the most was this one that claimed there was a scientific study behind this.

http://www.weightlossanddietingpills.com/index.htm

the so called study was:

In a double-blind clinical study, 20 overweight men and women were divided into three groups. Group A received the active Phosphosterine compound. Group B received a placebo. Group C, acting as the control, received nothing.

Each group was permitted to follow a satisfying 1800 calorie a day meal plan, and asked to begin a modest 3-day per week exercise program. In other words, all three groups were treated the same, except Group A was the only group given the active Phosphosterine compound.

At the conclusion of the six week study the data was independently verified and reviewed. The results were astounding! Group A (the Phosphosterine group) experienced a significant decrease in overall body weight -- an incredible 830% greater than the group who followed the diet and exercise program alone!

----

So that study basically had about 6 people on it for 6 weeks. That's far from a clinical study having reliable results. You'd need far more people and a lot more studies to get true scientific results. We all know that the first month or so of any "diet" program people lose a good amount of weight, most of it water not fat, so I find it hard to believe that the pill contributed to this whopping 830% better results.

The other thing I noticed, is that the sites that sell the pill are all heavy into all kinds of "wonder pills and remedies" like breast enlargement, rapid weight loss, cellulite melters etc.

Real ECA stacks are generally used by athletes/weight lifters. The purpose is to boost metabolism to burn fat not necessarily for weight loss, but for fat loss for toning up. To me there is a difference between the two. None of the sites I saw advertising your product were body building or athletic sites.

That's enough to make me wonder if this is just another bottle of snake oil.

I noticed from your profile that you are brand new to this site, and only a few days into Atkins. If you are looking for a quick way to lose weight...there isn't one. Your best bet is to stick with a low carb plan, and do your time with it. A bottle of wonder pills isn't the answer. If on the other hand you are looking for more info on thermogenics to enhance weightlifting results, then I would suggest (if you haven't already) reading this thermogenics thread from the very beginning. There's a ton of valuable info that should help you make up your mind on wh at course to take. We all have choices. They should be informed choices.

Good luck on your journey.

[lisavasil]

Thanks Angela! Thats pretty much what i thought, just wondering if anyone had heard of this. I actually stopped in GNC for an atkins bar as i was starving with no other food options and needed something to tide me over. I have had success with atkins in the past and kept the weight off, but now after a year of being on the pill i am back to square one. so now i went off the pill and am starting back with induction. i passed on the salesmans pitch for this product as i am not one to take any kind of pills (i struggle taking an aspirin!) and again was just curious. Being on birth control has totally screwed up my metabolism and the few amounts of carbs i was eating maybe just wasnt the same with the hormones as i used to tolerate them well. Being off the pill now and back to induction i hope will put me back on the right track! Thanks again for your response! This board is very informative and I am definitely learning even more from my first experience with low carbing as i have this access!
Take care!
Lisa

[Justarius]

Hey everyone, just finished reading through most of the thread. I'm about to start taking Xenadrine (old school stuff I bought last year) to help bust through my last 15/20 pounds (I've lost about 105 so far from diet in the past 5 months).

What's the recommended advice for dosage/frequency? I have read in the thread 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off and also M-F but not weekends. Does that sound right? Or is it 8 weeks on, 4 weeks off OR M-F no weekends? I'm concerned about overdoing it and dependency.

I will ease into it as per recommendations on the bottle (basically 1/2 dose for the 1st week). Should I take on an empty stomach?

Thanks for your time,

Anthony

[Natrushka]

Anthony, I would just doublecheck the warning on the label and verify that and ECA stack is safe to take w/o a gallbladder (a possible side effect that I am aware of is kidney stones but I couldn't find anything on gallstones/gallbladder).

For anyone one else interested you can find a list of possible drug interactions with ephedra here (http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_interact/1,1661,777,00.html)

Nat

[Justarius]

Originally posted by Natrushka
Anthony, I would just doublecheck the warning on the label and verify that and ECA stack is safe to take w/o a gallbladder (a possible side effect that I am aware of is kidney stones but I couldn't find anything on gallstones/gallbladder).

Thanks Nat, I'll take a look. I didn't even really consider that since all the Gallbladder really does is store extra bile. But the LAST thing I need is Kidney stones.

By the way, are you psychic? Because I didn't post anything about my recent Gallbladder surgery (insert twilight zone music) ;)

Anyone have any advice on my original frequency question?

Anthony

[lisavasil]

Hi! Just read your post and I am in about the same place. I started xenadrine yesterday, one in the morning on an empty stomach followed by breakfast shortly after and one in the afternoon. It seems like the morning pill wore off (feeling more alert) within four hours but the afternoon pill kept me up all night :roll: ! I wonder if i should just start out the first week or so with just one morning pill....anyone have any thoughts?

[Zzoom]

This thread makes very interesting reading. I guess caffeine is okay so long as you remember to drink lots of water as well.

As an aside, I was on semi-detox for the whole of July. I say 'semi' as around the 21st July I was with my parents and suspect my decaf coffee was mixed up with their normal coffee. Wow, after 3 weeks of no stimulants I was high as a kite for an hour and then was nauseus changing to lethargic for the next 1.5 hours.

Having said all that, I'm about to go out and buy some Xenedrine to aid my August "High Protein, Low Carbs, High Fat Loss Campaign" - guess I'll be on 1 tab a day before my morning jog!!

[Meg_S]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with yohimbine, applied topically.

I have read about it in Trainer Dan's book, and like the way it sounds - but the only info I can find (so far) on the net is from companies advertising their own brand of cutting gel.

It seems very expensive, is that just the brand name thing? Can I do what I do with an EC stack and just buy the ingredients separately for a fraction of the cost?

Meg

[Alexoc949]

On the bottle of xenadrine it says "The maximum recommended dosage of ephedrine for a healthy adult is no more than 100 mg. in a 24 hour period for not more than 12 weeks."

I take one capsule (10 mg) approx. 4 days a week before my morning workouts for the anti-catobolic effects among it's other benefits.

max dosage per week (100mg x 7 days a week) 700 mg
my dosage per week (10mg x 4 days a week) 40 mg

Does anyone have an opinion on whether I would need to cycle it or not at my dosage? Or is it good the way it's going now?

[PAMMYSUE]

I am still learning about this Xenadrine.

I started taking Xenadrine EFX (Ephedrine Free) about 4 weeks ago. I do feel it is working, I am loosing a lot of inches. I went with the EFX because of all these reports on Ephedrine and how bad it is for your body. They did a report on CNN last week and the government is going after the makers of Metabolife for saying there is no side affects of Ephedrine. There are reported deaths, heart disease etc. So Iam sure there is still some ephedrine in the EFX (they probably have it hidden by calling it green tea or something) but I feel better taking the EFX. Last week I took two tablets in the morning, two in the afternon for 4 days and then then only 2 the next day and then none all weekend. I am trying only to take it 4-5 days a week.

If anyone has any other information left me know.

Pammysue

[kderry9138]

I have a few questions....I too am on the Atkins diet, and I usually eat eggs and cheese for breakfast, salad with ranch dressing for lunch, and meat and veggies for dinner. I try to snack on fruit throughout the day if I get hungry. Is this an acceptable diet? What is the max amount of carbs I should have?

Also, my doctor prescribed phentermine for me a while back, and I have taken it off and on for over a year. I seem to hit a plateau and it doesn't seem to work anymore. I have been trying metabolite, Xenedrine, etc off and on too. My doctor has been monitering my BP and heart, and everything seems ok. Is it wise to switch back and forth, or should I pick one and stay with it?

[PAMMYSUE]

Hi Kderry,

Welcome to the world of information. This website is great for any information you might need and also for support.

I have been on Adkins since April 1st. You need to get the book if you dont have it. Its extremely helpful. You start out for 14 days with only 14 gms of carbs. It is a extremel tuff 14 days but it works. Then slowly move up to 20 or 25. Myself I am at 40 gms a day. I have lost 32 pds and about 29 inches. I look at the Adkins program as a way of life not a diet anymore. I choose not to eat breads, pasta, pop, etc. Now once a week I will eat what I want in moderation. They say to do that so you dont crave foods. Like this weekend, I had 2 pieces of pizza.

Myself I have lost all this weight and inches without exercising
at all. Just the running I do with my kids. I started yesterday doing Taebo and walking. I am going to sit back and watch the weight fall off. HA HA :D

I am also taking Xenadrine EFX (Ephedrine Free). I take the EFX because I see no reason to put ephedrine in my system. I take it 4-5 days a week and lay off 2 days etc.

Well congrats on your decision to do Atkins. It does work and there are lots of people here that can help you and will encourage you in any way possible.

Hope to talk to you soon.

Pammysue :wave:

[Misty]

Has anyone tried Thermicore by MetRx or any of the other time-release thermogenics? I really like Thermicore during the day, but after the 8 hours and it's gone from my system, I just crash. So I usually don't take it until after lunch, or I'm ready for bed by 5:00PM. I tried Hydroxycut a few years ago and really liked it, but it got so expensive. What is another thermogenic I could try that doesn't leave me dead-tired at the end of the day that's reasonably priced?

[Trainerdan]

Meg S - I am currently using Yohimburn, which is a topical yohimbine product. They combined the aloe, peppermint, and yohimbine in the product, so it saves alot of aggravation. The cost is $70, but there is 3.5g of yohimbine in the bottle. At aprx. 30mg per application, you can see that it is pretty cost effective.

It is available at www.anabolicfitness.com. They also sell a NYC stack, for those who are having trouble finding one.


Kderry - All of the EC products are essentially the same as far as the main active ingredients go, so you can switch from brand to brand. Some are stronger than others, so be sure to check the strength of the active ephedra alkaloids when you buy a new brand.

Misty - I tried Themicore awhile back, and I liked the time release, but it never really seemed to curb my appetite. I switched to Xenadrine RFA and that worked, but I time my last dose at 3 pm. By them time I get the gym at 5pm, it is in my system kicking hard. I still crash pretty hard, but it is usually around 9pm or so when I am getting ready for bed anyway. The theromgenic crash is kind of unavoidable. Just a timing issue I suppose.

[Trainerdan]

As you can see in this thread, there are good points and bad points on taking ephedra based products. The best advice is to read the label carefully and follow the directions/warinings.

A recent study by Vukovich and colleagues evaluated the effects of a single dose of ephedrine (20mg) and caffeine (150 mg) on heart rate, blood pressure, and resting energy expenditure on a group of healthy men and women.

The test subjects (8 of them, yes it is a small study) reported to the lab, rested for 15 mins, and underwent 30 minutes of baseline testing.

They were then randomly assigned to either take the EC combination supplement or a placebo.

Heart rate, blood pressure, energy expenditure, and blood fatty acid levels were determined intermittently during the 3 hour observation period.

Results showed that taking the ephedrine/caffeine supplement promoted :

- a greater increase in resting heart rate (+ 23 bpm, versus +9 in the placebo group). This was observed 60 minutes after ingestion.

- an increase in systolic blood pressure (+9, versus +2). This was observed 3 hours after ingestion.

- an increase in resting energy expenditure (+ 10.7%, versus +4.7%). This was observed 3 hours after ingestion.

- No signifigant changes were detected in diastolic blood pressure.

These findings add to the growing body of evidence that supplementing with the EC stack can elevate resting metabolic rate, with mild changes in heart rate and systolic blood pressure.



Vukovich M.D., Heilman C., Brink J. "Caffeine and ephedrine: Effect on resting heart rate, blood pressure, and energy expenditure. Med Sci Sport Exerc 34 (5): S73, 2002.

[Luxsit]

Ok, well I'm jumping in with both feet. I read Dan's book last night. Need to go through it again and take some notes. I ordered BetaLean HP and Metabolic Thyrolean this morning from A1supplements $33 + shipping. They have two for one deal right now on Thyrolean. I had to call them to make sure they were shipping the free bottle. Plan of cycling Thyrolean and ECA.

Dan, do you recommend cycling in NYC as well ? If so, how would one cycle between supplements ?

[Trainerdan]

The Beta Lean is an ECA stack

The Thyrolean is a guggul product

The NYC is, well, an NYC stack.

The book covers how to work them all in. :) In the first chapter.

[Trainerdan]

Dosing frequency really depends on the product you have. Some have 1 capsule = full dose. Some are 2 capules, some a 3 capsules.

If you have one that is 3 capsules (Xenadrine RFX), and it is your first adventure with thermogens try starting with 1 capsule in the morning, 20 - 30 mins before you eat breakfast. Or 20 - 30 mins before your morning cardio workout on an empty stomach. ;)

The typical dose lasts 3 - 5 hours. Your results/reactions may differ. If it is before 3 pm and you don't feel "speedy", you may take a second dose.

Keep in mind the 5 hour thing when timing your doses. If yo utake one too close to bed time, you will have the unpleasant fun of staring at the ceiling half of the night.

Over the weeks, slowly increase your dosage. Maybe 2 pills in the AM by week 3, for example.

You get the picture. :cool:

[Justarius]

I have 2 quick frequency questions for ya Dan.

Re: Easing into an ECA stack. Does this apply every time you start using the product or just the 1st time? Let's say it's been a few weeks or even months since my last dose. I already know I can handle the full dose so is it safe to resume with 4 pills a day, or should I do a few days at half dose to give my system a chance to adjust?

Secondly, If I decide to resume my Xenadrine RFA use I'm going to be really infrequent. I've read a few places that no more than 3 days a week is recommended so my plan is M-W-F (the days of my workouts) for a month, then 2-3 month break. Just curious if you think it's Ok to do the On/Off/On/Off thing throughout the week or if I'm better using it 3 days straight (better for results and better for my system. Alternating days when my blood pressure is higher/lower/higher/lower seems a little more dangerous than higher for 3, lower for 4, etc.).

Thanks for your time

Anthony

[Trainerdan]

When I come off EC/NYC stacks and go back on, I usually start back at the full dose. That is just what I have observed to be the case for my body.

The safe answer is to start low and increase whenever you first come back on.

As for cycling EC stacks, I go a full 12 weeks with a 5 on/2 off pattern. Then I lay off for a few months, which is what I am about to do now ... go off for a while.

I think I am gonna switch to an ephedra free formula (Xenadrine EFX I think) just to help fend off fat loss in the off-season. LOL.

[Justarius]

Originally posted by Trainerdan
As for cycling EC stacks, I go a full 12 weeks with a 5 on/2 off pattern.

What do you think of my 1 on/1 off/1 on/1 off/1 on/2 off pattern?
lol

My logic is if I'm only using it 3 days those days should be my workout days. But my logic and what's good for ya aren't necessarily the same. ;)

Anthony

[Trainerdan]

If you are only going to use it 3 days, then they should be your workout days.

But, EC stacks work by raising metabolism and increasing lipolysis. If you are gonna be on a stack, you should want these to happen as often as possible.

5 on/2 off is enough time off per week to prevent dependency issues, as well as giving your adrenal system a break.

You can try the 3 day a week approach and let us know how it goes. I have never tried it that way. When I'm on, I'm on. LOL.

:)

[Luxsit]

Ok, got my digital thermometer, notebook, and pencil beside the bed. Picked up Diet Fuel while at store getting thermometer last night. Took temperature this morning 97.1, would seem to indicate metabolism is sluggish ? Started ECA Stack this morning. Took a full 3 pill dose this morning, no sweating or anything unusual, does body size impact dosage ?

[Luxsit]

I saw a source posted for NYC stack. I found a product from SportsOne called Phenyl XL that seems to be an NYC. Seems most vendors have convertered over to EYC using ma hung? Any recommendations on source and product ?

[Trainerdan]

The NYC stack at anabolicfitness.com is the best price I have seen ...

and there is also phenyl-kinetics which is available at www.infinityfitness.com.

Here's the link for AF's NYC stack (http://www.anabolicfitness.net/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AFS&Product_Code=AN&Category_Code=WLP)

Here's the link for phenylkinetiks (http://www.infinityfitness.com/phenyl.shtml)

Both are good.

[Luxsit]

I should have included a link to this but it looks like a NYC stack. Discount Nutrition has it for $14.95 plus $7.95 shipping.

Phenyl XL Discount-Nutrition.com (http://www.discount-nutrition.com/sportsone/phenyl.html)

[Trainerdan]

Yes it is. I misunderstood you in your original post. I thought you were saying that they used epehdrine in it, making it a ECY stack ... which isn't as effective.

That's the cheapest I've seen for a NYC stack.

[Oreosmama]

My boyfriend is an active weight trainer and cyclist. He uses rippedfuel for his workouts with great success. He takes them about 30-40 minutes beforehand. I don't do well with them, they make me jittery. I did very good with Diet fuel made by the same company. It wasn't quite as strong for me. I didn't get jittery like the ripped fuel made me. Just a suggestion.
He also used to take Hydroxycut pills too, they worked well, just expensive to stay on. He took about 12 daily...which really adds up quickly on the pocket book. Xenadrine is another he had taken, the only side effect I noticed with him was if he didn't take them everyday, he had a caffeine withdrawl headache. JUST like clockwork. They are not as strong as the ripped fuel, though.

Of course it depends on your body. Everyone is different.

My brother had major anxiety on some of these pills, but my boyfriend does great on them. Depends on you.

Oreosmama

[Trainerdan]

It's funny how the different products effect people ...

Ripped Fuel turns me into Mr. Nasty ... VERY moody (well, even more than usual anyway :rolleyes: ) ...

Hydroxy is overpriced. I usually go with Xenadrine RFA, then I switch off to AdipoKinetix (or another NYC when I finally run out of Adipo) after a month or so.

I seem to do best on Xenadine RFA of all the ECA stacks.

The old-school ephedrine hcl & Vivarin shut my appetite down too much, so I left that behind. Worked well though.

[PAMMYSUE]

Hey there Trainer Dan,

Ordered you book, waiting to get it. Hopefully it will be here in a couple of days.

I have been stalled for 3 weeks now. Iam taking xenadrine EFX, but had to go off for a week because I was on an antibiotic. But I am back on it. I am drinking about 60 ounces of water a day. Exercising in kind of off, trouble finding time. ( I know no excuse).

Well I will just hang in there and wait for your book.


Thanks

Pammysue

[Rudi Bega]

Hi! My name's Rudi and I would have to say that I am very concerned after reading this discussion.

Please bear with me if you can because I'm trying to give the best picture possible of my background and why I am concerned about the need for supplements with the LC diets.

All of the Atkins hoopla says that you have no trouble keeping the weight off because you never increase really the amount of carbs. Now I read form Nat that despite LCing and plenty of exercise, her metabolism is very low. Trainer Dan feels it neccessary to go on ephedrine-laced supplements to stay pumped up, despite CKD trimming him down? :exclm:

If I stay on this WOE for years, will I eventually have to do even more tricks to my metabolism than Atkins to keep the weight off? Personally, I am against these supplements because I don't know how you can ever stop taking them. Once you stop, doesn't the weight just come back on? What will happen in 10 or 20 years when you don't want to put up with taking the supplements anymore, cyclically or not?


Let me give you some background: I went on a similar diet to Atkins about 5 years ago for six months and lost 50 lbs, which went back on plus interest since then, in spite of watching what I ate and exercising. I just went back on Atkins last Monday and have lost 7 pounds so far. I feel great, energized, and am committed to doing this for years. I know that my metabolism changed when I was on the diet and that after my body believed I was "starving", the weight was definitely going to come back on.

HOWEVER, five years ago when I went off Atkins, I had decided to work at my body image and stop the cycle of weight loss and re-gain, to love myself. I was 230 lbs at the time I went off the diet, with a body fat % of 21. My LBM was about 180, and for a woman at 5'6", that LBM is kind of impressive, I think. I have always worked about a lot (cardio mostly 5-6 days/week) and have built up this muscle mass over time. I have a large frame with heavy bones, and that is not just an excuse for being fat -- I inherited my dad's frame, and he was a typical defensive football player with the huge shoulders and everything. The muscle mass just allows me to move this heavy body through all the things that I make it do.

Now I am 316 lb and have an LBM of 196, which would mean that my target would be about 240. However, I am hoping that with a lower body mass, the need for all that muscle would lessen and I would also lose a little bit of the muscle mass. :confused:

After I went off Atkins, I really worked on my body image and said to myself that it would be okay to be fat, that I would be okay with myself no matter what I looked like. I worked hard at stopping eating when I was full and putting my all into exercising consistently. I did have ankle surgery 3 years ago which held me down for a while, but I am still confused at my body. I feel betrayed that I tried to live the healthiest I could and have continued to add more pounds every year. I'm not saying I have been perfect, but I don't feel I should be this overweight and still gaining.

So, if I do Atkins for a few years with my metabolism, will I start eventually to gain back the weight even despite staying on the diet? Will I have to resort to these supplements to effectively keep the weight off? Does anyone else have experience with a body like mine?

[PAMMYSUE]

Welcome Rudi-Bega - :wave:

I can feel for you.

I finally hit rock bottom in April and I knew that I had to do something. I started doing the Atkins program to the tee. I lost so far about 32 pounds. Now I am also taking the Xenedrine EFX . I started taking the product because do to my life style with running constantly with my husband/kids. I can not eat 4-5 meals a day and also sometimes eat the wrong things. I resolved myself to the fact that I love this diet (no diet - new way of life) but I have to adapt it to my lifestyle. When I take the EFX then if I happen to grab a hot dog with the bun because I am in the car, then I know that the EFX is going to help me fight the extra carbs. I know that I will still loose pounds, about 7-8 pounds a month. Like I stated before this is a way of life.

I did a lot of research on these products. I liked the Xenadrine EFX because it does not have caffenne in it. I dont like that jittery feeling. I am going to take it 10-12 weeks on and then take 4 weeks off. I was just off it for 2 weeks because I had to take an antibiotic. I did not gain any weight.

You just have to do your research and do what you feel is good for you and your body. Talk to everyone here. Everyone is very helpful. Trainer Dan is a good one to talk to.

Well good luck to you, hope you find your answers. One thing that I firmly believe in is that this is not a diet, its a life style change. I have changed my eating habits and I will not ever go back. Yes I will have a piece of pizza or a piece of bread here and there and I will not feel bad about it. No I will not sit down and eat 2 sandwiches or go to McDonalds and get a BigMac or sit down and eat half a pizza and some chips. And yes I will drink my WATER, WATER, WATER, WATER, WATER untill I float.....

Well enough rambling on and on. Hope you find your answers...
:wave:

Pammysue

[PAMMYSUE]

WHERE HAS EVERYONE BEEN????????????



Everyone go off their diets???????????



I feel so alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(


Pammysue

[TriciaW]

Greetings--
Has anyone heard of this product, BioShape from Royal Body Care?
http://www.rbcglobenet.com/Weight_Loss_Products.htm
In addition, they sell a product that supposedly has human growth hormone---I keep hearing quite a bit about HGH from various places. Anyone tried this? The marketing sounds like the fountain of youth and slimness. They also have a product called CrystalEnergy---supposed to reduce the surface tension of water to enable better hydration and elimination of toxins. I have spent so much on "quick fixes" and diet products, I'm reluctant to believe anything..... Thanks and happy Friday!

[Meg_S]

I am not an expert by any means, but I tend to view anything with such wonderful claims, including thermogenics, as a bunch of bs that play on people's emotions and desires for a better body. Thermogenics work... to a certain extent and under certain conditions as do other supplements. *I* don't think a product exists that does what proper diet and exercise can do for your body. If your diet and exercise prog is not good enough to see results, correct it before trying magic pills. If your body doesn't want to see exercise and diet as a quick fix, (some people just lose or transform very slowly no matter what they do) it will not likely see any supplements as quick fixes either....
I hope this didn't sound cranky, it wasn't intended to :) But I've wasted money on supplements that have had no effect whatsoever, and though it is very slow slooow progress exercise and diet are doing what I want.

Take care,
Meg

[Shasta]

I have used Xenadrine in the past, but I have been afraid to use it since switching to low-carb because of what Atkins says in his book. I have a huge appetite even when in ketosis, so Xenadrine would help me out a lot.

I know that caffeine is good for fat burning, but how do thermogenics affect ketosis? Do they raise insulin levels enough to knock one out of ketosis?

[SlimShAdY]

http://atkinscenter.com/img/assets/611/accel_172x189.jpg

LOL~ atkins thermogenics now
:rolleyes:

[Trainerdan]

Tricia ... I would shy away from that company. Firts, HGH has only been shown to be effective for fat loss at a dose (in man) of 2 iu - 4 iu per day. HGH is soooooo expensive, that I seriously doubt that any product contains actual HGH, especially considering that it needs to be refridgerated after it is opened/mixed.

Any company that makes outrageous claims like that are usually bad news.

SlimShady ... What are the active ingredients in that product?

MegS ... I agree that there is no magic bullet for fat loss/fitness, but the science that is available on a few of the supplements out there (Ephedrine/Caffeine combo, L-glutamine, Branched Chain Amino Acids, CLA) is hard to argue. Granted, there are 1,000's of products out there that are crap, but if these supplements are used IN THE PROPER DOSEAGES, results demonstrated by science can be attained.

[SlimShAdY]

Originally posted by Trainerdan

SlimShady ... What are the active ingredients in that product? [/B]

Green Tea and caffeine. (last I knew, atkins said no to caffeine..lol :rolleyes: )

"It combines the thermogenic benefits of green tea containing clinically tested levels of polyphenols, caffeine with glucomannon to control appetite, plus chromium and niacin to support energy and fat metabolism."

got it fromhere (http://atkinscenter.com/shop/productinfosheets/Infosheet__Atkins_Accel.html)

[jaykay]

Sounds like drinking green tea and coffee plus taking a multivit would do the same job then, at a lot less than half the price.

For a bit more money than a drugstore own brand multivit, there's one called Cosmopolitan - by Vitabiotics (in conjunction with the magazine I think). Its got green tea extract, L-carnitine and chromium in as well as the usual things. It doesn't cost too much, £7 for 30 capsules here (compared with £35 for xenadrine!) The green tea levels are quite low, so I drink several cups a day too.
I don't know if you can get it over there, but they have a website www.vitabiotics.com.

[petlady1]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IYONNA
[B]I have to put my 2 cents in, i am on atkins lost 20 lbs, then was STUCK for 4 months,did everything right no lbs, couple inches then 2 months ago i stared to Carb up on saturdays and Sundays(thanks to dan :wave: )go back to atkins on Monday i was also taking Xenedrine RFA and to date i have lost a total of 17lbs while carbing up and taking Xenedrine,

iyonna

First, congrats on your success. I'm new to this board and am very impressed. I, similarly, had lost weight (7.5 pounds) on induction, did everything right on Atkins, and was stuck for 11 weeks! I have about 30 lbs. to lose. Of late, I am counting calories (ugh), trying to stay low carb and lower fat. It ain't easy. I would love to hear more details or be directed to the thread re "carbing up." I also just ordered Dan's book.
Thanks,
petlady

[PAMMYSUE]

Hi all,

Welcome Petlady, Welcome aboard.....

I am going thru the same thing as you did. I lost 30 pounds from
April till July and now I am stuck. I have not lost more than a pound here and there . Actually I started carbing up on the weekend on accident. My kids are both in sporting events all weekend and you cant help but eat concession stand food. Maybe I will start seeing a a change finally. It is starting to get flustrating. Iam also taking Xenadrine EFX. Hopefully something breaks soon.

Well hope everyone is doing great.


Pammysue :wave:

[nicoleb]

my trainer told me that to get rly rly ripped one could use anti-asthmatic drugs..he told me it works like opening up your bronchis and bettering ur circulation...is this ok to use??would it interfere with my health or in anyway??
and what if youre an asthmatic person and u rly need to take those anti asthmatic drugs..will it prevent you from reaching ketosis or sumthin??? :confused:

[mia_elan84]

BE CAREFUL!!!!!!

iv'e been on fen phen, then adipokinetix, then the big LIPOKINETIX, then thermo gen 2(sci fit).......now i'm back on thermo speed(the drink) which i only drink half of the bottle before and during my workout.....people be careful....if you have heart problems, diabetes or work out too hard......it cold be fatal.

just listen to your body and your heART BEAT....after 12 weeks...throw it out and go au natural....

IT CAN BE ADDICTIVE!!!!

[grandma]

Hello Dan,

Do you think Xenadrine EFX works? I'm pretty sensitive to caffine but I havn't been able to lose weight on any program. I'm 54, weigh 155 and am 5'6". I think my metabolism is very slow but I fear caffine highs. What do you think?

Blessings
Grandma (to be in May)

[Meg_S]

Do you have to take a stack on an empty stomach for it to be effective? The one I have says take before eating... but how long?
I have diet fuel and only use it for am cardio or for before a workout, but sometimes my am cardio is a hike that is 2hrs long and I eat before that. Does that discredit the stack?

Meg

[Luxsit]

Hey Trainerdan,
Any opinions on a product from ADR Parmacia called Spirojet ?

Here's a link to their site:
Spirojet (http://www.adrpharmacia.com/buy.asp)

Don't buy it direct from their site, you can find it a lot cheaper by just doing a search.

It comes in a liquid form, it taste like ~#$, but I am down 5.5 from last time I weighed in and I've only gone through one cycle?

Regards,
Lux :wave:

[Trainerdan]

Meg - I have noticed that it is more effective on an empty stomach. I take it as soon as I wake up before I do morning cardio. During the day, I schedule my doses so that they are an hour or so before a meal. This way you get the advantage of the appetite supression.

Luxsit - I have heard of that product, and judging by its write-up it looks like a complete product. Congratulations on your loss!

[Meg_S]

wow, that spirojet sounds almost scary.
I'd love to know more about it!
h

[Luxsit]

Meg,
I suspect as with any supplement that my metabolism will eventually adjust to this stuff. The directions have you cycle as follows: Day 1, 1cc in the morning followed by 1cc 6 hours later. Day 2, 2cc in the morning followed by 2cc 6 hours later. Day 3, 3 cc in the morning followed by 3 cc 6 hours later. Day 4 off, then repeat cycle. You squirt the stuff in your mouth and they ask you to keep it under your tongue for 90 seconds. They give you a small sringe for measuring doses, so you look like a bit of a junky taking it. :)

I am on my second cycle so I'll let you know how things go. I probably won't weigh myself again until next Saturday which should be the end of my third cycle. Other than what's on the web site, I don't have much more information on it.

Regards,
Lux

[Meg_S]

Thanks for the response, I've had trouble finding info or reviews on it other than what's on the site.
Do you have any concerns about so many of the "fat burner" ingredients all being together, like a system overload kind of thing?
How do you feel on it? Does it feel like being on a stack? (confession) I actually like that wired feeling as long as it's not too high. Any problems sleeping?
I'm really tempted to buy this stuff to use instead of the stack I started.

take care,
Meg

[Luxsit]

Meg, I would finish with the stack you are on. Let me be the lab rate, give me a couple weeks, and I will report back how it is going.

Regards,
Lux :wave:

[Trainerdan]

Actually, I an also gonna make myself into a lab rat too... a company put out a non-ephedra/non-caffeine product called Thermics that is supposed to act on the Beta-3 receptors ... Gotta give that a shot. LOL.

Also have leads on a few not-yet-available fat loss agent that may make it to market soon. Gonna see if there is a way to get them sooner. I'll keep you all posted ... :)

[PAMMYSUE]

TRAINERDAN:

QUICK QUESTION - IAM STILL TAKING XENADRINE EFX, BUT I RAN OUT LAST THURSDAY,SO I WENT ALMOST 5 DAYS WITH OUT. I NOTICE THAT THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS I HAVE BEEN REAL TIRED AFTER ABOUT 5. I WORK OUT AT THE GYM FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AT NOON. IAM NOT TAKING ANY OTHER VITAMINS. MY QUESTION IS: SHOULD I BE TAKING MORE VITAMINS. THERE IS VIT C, B AND MAG IN THE XENADRINE. MY THINKING IS THAT IAM OK AS LONG AS I TAKE THE XENADRINE AND THEN WHEN I GO OFF MY BODY HAS NO ENERGY. I HAVE A MULTIVITAMIN, A ESSENTIAL OILS AND VITAMIN C, B AND CALCIUM. I STOPPED TAKING THEM WHEN I STARTED XENADRINE, BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE TO MUCH. I DID NOT WANT TO BE ON A NATURAL HIGH.

ANY ADVICE WOULD BE MOST HELPFULL.

EVERYONE HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!!

PAMMYSUE

[Trainerdan]

As vitamin C is water-based, it is safe to take unless you get into REALLY high doses.

B-complex is always a good idea for energy and stress reduction. I take mine at 3:00 or so in the afternoon to avoid any energy lull that comes around later in the afternoon.

[PAMMYSUE]

THANK YOU TRAINERDAN.

I KNOW THAT WHEN I WAS NOT TAKING THE XENADRINE, I WAS REALLY TIRED. DOES THIS MEAN ANYTHING? THAT MAYBE MY BODY IS NOT TAKING WELL TO THE LO CARB DIET, OR THAT I AM JUST NEED SOME ADDITION SUPPLEMENTS. I WILL START TAKING C AND E, I ALSO NEED TO TAKE A LITTLE CALCIUM (MY AGE AND ALL). JUST WASNT SURE IF THEY WOULD MIX WELL TOGETHER.

I ALSO WAS TOLD TO DRINK CYPTOPLEX ALSO, AT LEAST ONCE A DAY FOR THE EXTRA VIT/MINERALS. THINK THAT WOULD DO ANY GOOD?

THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR HELP, WHAT WOULD WE DO WITH OUT YOU.

PAMMYSUE :wave:

[Meg_S]

I am somewhat sheepishly admitting that I bought the Spirojet, in the last month I've been slowly shrinking (after a long period of not), and figured that I want to do as much as I can to help it while it's happening. So, twinlab eca is being packed away for another time.
Anyway, my good experience is that I ordered it online for a great price (compared to other companies) without paying an arm and a leg for shipping, it came within a couple of days but the cap was smashed. I wrote an email to the company very late last night and already have a response this morning. THey are sending a new bottle at no cost to me. I got it from suncoastherbs.com Not sure if naming them in here is allowed though... I'll take it out if it's not.

I have a question too, I guess it's mainly for Luxit, but I welcome advice from anyone. You're supposed to cycle the stuff, taking 1ml 2x on the 1st day, 2ml x2 the second, and 3mlx2 the 3rd, nothing the fourth, then start all over again. I'm on day two, and feeling WIRED from the 2ml. I'm a little worried about day three... Do you think that I should just do a 3 day cycle, skipping the 3ml day, or take 2ml for 2 days until I'm used to the feeling then add in the 3ml, or eat before taking it (I took it on an empty stomach this morning) or... or....?

(doing a little "loose pants" dance)

Have a wonderful day!
Meg

[Luxsit]

Meg,
My guess is that the ramp up is designed to help you determine your systems own tolerance. If you are feeling pretty amped on 2ml, I'd stay at 2ml for day three, the rest day four. After you get through the first cycle, I would re-evaluate and ask yourself if 2ml makes you feel uncomfortable or not. If it does you might want to go to a 1ml x 2 x 3 day schedule or a 1ml x 2 x 2 day + 2ml x 2 x 1day, if not, then maybe 1ml x 2, 2ml x 2 x 2 days. I seem to handle 3ml x 2 dose ok, but I've got a bit more body mass than you :). I might try doing a 3ml x 2 x 3 day next cycle to see if there's any difference.

See what I meant by a nasty taste?

Regards,
Lux