THERMOGENIC INFO: Xenadrine, Hydroxycut, Ripped Fuel, Diet Fuel, Metabolife, etc ...

[binki]

Two questions for the experts:

1. Is there any reason why one couldn't just take an ephedrine pill with one's morning coffee and consider that stacking? I usually have a double shot of espresso which should be well over the 100 mg of caffeine I read about.

2. I've read this whole thread but it seems like it was only the old pre-ban formula that did anything. Would you say it's true that all those diet/fatburning products are pretty much useless now since they don't have ephedra in them?

--

on edit, a third question: I thought you could still get ephedrine at 1fast400 but they seem to be out of it. Is it gone forever?

[Built]

1. Yes, that's stacking.
2. I've heard very little good about non-E stacks
3. I buy mine at supplement stores in Canada, so I can't help you.

[binki]

Ah, you lucky Canadians, with your ephedrine, your health care and your White Spots...

[Built]

Ephedrine HCL is still legal in the USA, as I understand.

Triple-O, on the other hand, is a black-market commodity!

[Traacy]

Do you know anything about 7Keto? Comments??

[Built]

7keto isn't legal in Canada.
BUMP!

[Chipperoo]

Direct link to ephadrine at 1fast400.

http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=50

[binki]

Hey, cool, thanks. I guess they were just temporarily out of it this morning.

[Chipperoo]

Nah, for some reason it hasn't been listed anywhere except under the "best seller" listing lately.

[Jamori]

is Ephedrine HCl something different from what you take, built?

[Built]

is Ephedrine HCl something different from what you take, built?
Nope. Ephedrine HCL is the generic drug version. Ephedra is the herbal version. Ephedra is no longer available in the USA, as I understand it. I believe Ephedrine HCL is. It's sold as a decongestant.

I don't trust herbals. I trust stuff made in labs. Standardized doses. That way I know EXACTLY what I'm taking.

[copey02]

any reccomendation of vasopro ephedrine over ephedrine 25?

is there any place to buy these in the stores, or just from online supplement sites?

i know people have recomended just plain caffeine pills in addition to ephedrine in creating an EC stack... but is it better/worse to use xenadrine efx,hydroxycut etc instead of plain caffeine pills ....

i had awesome results with original formula hydroxycut and have had horrible results with any new Eph free formulas...
hydroxycut E Free w/ ephedrine pills, recreating the original formula basically?


anyone have a certain stack that theyve tried and it definitly worked for them...

ive been blowing money on all these new E free formulas, new hydroxycut, xenadrine efx, zantrex3, .. trying to do a bit more research and figure out what exactly to buy so im not wasting anymore money...

any/all input appreciated.
thanks

[binki]

I just realized the Vasopro has guaifenesin in it!

Is this a problem?

[binki]

Well, I googled it and it seems not to be anything anybody worries about.

I've started with a quarter of a pill, and thus far can report that my bathroom is twinkling clean and I STINK. Does this stuff make everybody's sweat smell bad?

[jagbender]

Guaifenesin is an expectorant Helps loosen phlem. It is the active ingredient in cough syrup.
It is also sold OTC.
Jag

[Built]

Well, I googled it and it seems not to be anything anybody worries about.

I've started with a quarter of a pill, and thus far can report that my bathroom is twinkling clean and I STINK. Does this stuff make everybody's sweat smell bad?

:lol:

I'm not so sure about the stinking, but you'll NOTICE it more - it is, after all, a decongestant. Plus it's a thermogen, so right around the time your nose works better, you'll sweat more.

[binki]

Ok, one more question. I've read through this whole thread again, and a couple people asked this but nobody ever posted an answer:

Will a micro-dose work? I'm on my third day of taking 1/4 of a 25mg tablet in the morning with coffee. So that's just 6.25mg of E, with my usual double espresso.

My plan was to just do that in the morning, no afternoon dose. I was even toying with the idea of not taking any over the weekends just to be extra safe.

Am I being overcautious to the point where it's just a waste of money that won't do anything? I do feel a bunch of energy and, as posted above, am sweating overtime, so it does seem like it's having some effect.

Secondary question. Any opinions on whether one would need to cycle off of such a small dose? If so, would it suffice to just not take the E for a while? I really don't like quitting coffee.

[jagbender]

With such a small dose and not taking it on the weekends, I don't see you getting tolerance built up too fast. When you start seeing a decline in your effects you MAY have to increase your dose.
From what I have read most people who use E/C (A) are taking a lot more than you do. They cycle ECA with YC stack
Yohimbine / Caffeine.
Personally I use EC until I feel the effects on the prostate gland. That is usually about 6-8 weeks.
When I have a decrease in urinary flow I know it is time to switch to YC.
I make a Thermogenic with Tyrosine Yohimbine Caffeine and Guggsterone.
I cycle those two.
Jag

Jag

[skibunnie]

i cannot find anything that contains ephedrine anymore! Is there anywhere that carries it, besides online?

[adukart]

Hey skibunnie have you checked out the gas stations? Here in ND, Holiday gas station carries some. It's usually in a clear pink case up at the register.

[Built]

Ok, one more question. I've read through this whole thread again, and a couple people asked this but nobody ever posted an answer:

Will a micro-dose work? I'm on my third day of taking 1/4 of a 25mg tablet in the morning with coffee. So that's just 6.25mg of E, with my usual double espresso.

My plan was to just do that in the morning, no afternoon dose. I was even toying with the idea of not taking any over the weekends just to be extra safe.

Am I being overcautious to the point where it's just a waste of money that won't do anything? I do feel a bunch of energy and, as posted above, am sweating overtime, so it does seem like it's having some effect.

Secondary question. Any opinions on whether one would need to cycle off of such a small dose? If so, would it suffice to just not take the E for a while? I really don't like quitting coffee.
I take a LOT more than you do, and I haven't been off for months, so far, other than the constant BARKING, I'm fine.

Bark. Bark bark bark bark. Bark. <twitch>

;)

[Pandora23]

I'm pretty sure that the sale of ephedra products are banned in the US. I used to order them off online but no one will sell them anymore. I bought like 3 bottles back in April when everyone said they were gonna stop selling them. Maybe canada can still ship them?

[adukart]

It's only banned in some states, I am not sure of which ones though. I can still buy it, ephedrine HCL, in the gas stations, ND (North Dakota) is in the USA.

[Phade]

finally decided to give this a try again baught it from 1fast400 too. it sure takes some getting used to thats for sure. i used to take ripped fuel back in the day and was taking a half dose then so im doing the same now. stimulants hit me fast so i figured half would be good. it was im pretty well wired these days im on day 2 now and my resting HR is 80 after my morning swim... i hope thats ok.... im not sweating too much but im am getting used to the figity/sped up feeling i have... im not too fond of it... i had one of the best work outs yesterday i had so much energy in the gym it was great and when bed time came i passed out.

i guess my question would be is a 80 BPM resting HR ok to have while on this and would a morning and evening 1 mile swim be too much... my HR only goes up to 120 BPM while swimming.

[Phade]

heh all this seems to be coming about because my boss today when i came into work saw me all sweating from having just got done my swim and shower and rushing to work, he wanted to know if i was alright because heavy sweating is a precurser to having a heart attack.... gowd that the last crap i need to hear at 9 am got me all worked up..... blah....

one thing i am noticing though is that i have this slightly full/slightly nauseous feeliong in my stomach.... is this normal sorta the appitite suppressing effect?

[jagbender]

My resting rate on Ephedra is 64 BPM. I take 25mg in the 0600 1200 1500.
If you just started taking it you may be sensitive to it.
I remeber when I first took E and man was I wired. I still feel it now but much less effects.
You might want to watch excessive caffeine for a while.
Jag

[Phade]

heh yea i read later online that 80-100 is normal for an adult so... i dont have any other caffeen in my diet other than the caffeen i take with the E. i take it at 630 1130 and 430 and by 10 im ready to pass out. my biggest concern right now is the fact that its getting harder and harder to eat... im already in a 2500 calorie deficet as it is im eating 3000 a day now but its getting kinda hard i have to force feed myself heh.... im not doing the 25mg yet only half that gonna work my way up gowd knows how hard it will be to eat then.....

[adukart]

Soooo, does YC and EC give the same effect? And why do I keep finding stuff about "male" dysfunctions when I search for yohimbine?

[jagbender]

Adukart, Yohimbine is actually prescribed in the US for ED
It also has thermogenic propertiers. My understanding is that it
enhances and prolongs the effects of the caffeine.
Here is an interesting article http://www.1fast400.com/?articleID=26
Also, My DW says that she notices a differance when I take "Y".
I think it is because I have lost 61 pounds!
If momma is happy everyone is happy!

Jag

[Built]

Yohimbine raises blood pressure. Some, um, THINGS work on hydrolic pressure...

[jagbender]

It works for me!
:)
Jag

[adukart]

I also found the dosage here:

http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=107
the ideal dosing for Yohimbine is .2mg/kgSo I would need to take 11 mg, but they don't say if that is per dose or spread out through the day. Does anyone know if I would take 11 mg 3 times a day or 4 mg 3 times a day? I wonder if I could convince my fiance that it is just a vitamin, just for testing purposes, lol!!

[Meg_S]

(laughing) it doesn't only work for men either. I got some Y while my husband was away for a few weeks as a fat loss aid, planning on a hardcore fat loss period while he was gone. After the first day I put them away to save for emergencies. I literally could not think about anything else all day. ALL DAY all the time. It was fun, but not practical :)

[Built]

I literally could not think about anything else all day

Kinda like me when I'm ovulating... :blush:

Too much information? :lol:

[Meg_S]

hey! one of the joys of not being on the pill is enjoying full ovulation! We're adults here, we can admit it :)

[fridayeyes]

*lips pressed tight shut... quivering.... not gonna say anything not... nottttt... ahhhhhhh!*

LOL

Um, there is a *reason* I attack that dam* bike the way I do when I'm on NYC or LipoD instead of EC. Hubby knows when I'm supping Y just by the way I look at him. :D

Cheers,

FridaY

[Built]

Yeah, NOT being on the pill is just the BOMB!

Dunno if anyone's a Star Trek fan out here, but think "Pon Farr"...

[fridayeyes]

ROFL - that was a great episode. :) Spock was my second crush - I think I was 5. Speed Racer was my first. :D

[adukart]

You all are great, lol. My sex drive has greatly decreased due to Depo, I wonder if this will help me out. Only bad thing, if I take 11 mg a day the bottles only going to last 15 days.

[jagbender]

Adukart,
I mix 1g Y to 500ml water.
I start with 3ml using a baby syringe.
http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=590
If I could get my wife to try it.
(:

Jag

[adukart]

Oh man, I already ordered the pill form, guess next time it will be the powder.

[jagbender]

It is easier in the pill form but cheaper in bulk.
A thermo I make
200g Tyrosine
100g caffeine
8g Yohimbine
8g Guggsterone
Dosing 1/4 teaspoon 3 to 4 x a day.
All avalable at 1fast400
That makes a crap load of product.

Jag

[adukart]

Jag, Im confused isn't 8 grams of yohimbine a little much? Or is this lasting more than a day?
EDIT: now that I read the link you gave earlier, Im thinking you meant 8 mg, go ahead laugh at me.

[jagbender]

I am mixing 8 grams of Y into 300 grams of other powder (tyrosine and caffeine).
So a 1/4 t dose is about 2.5mg
That recipie lasts about 5 months!
Jag

[adukart]

Yeah I see now, guess 100g of caffiene a day wouldn't be good either.

What's this I read about people having to go to the bathroom (#2) when taking Y?

[jagbender]

Don't know about that?
Maybe that is why it works for weight loss! :)

Jag

[adukart]

So what should I do about donating blood? I have never donated before, should stop the EC or YC a couple days before donating, what's the opinion on this? or should I just not donate?

[jagbender]

Yohimbine
the Y does "disperse" but doesn't dissolve in water. You have to shake the bottle before dosing, actually dispensing the crystals in the water. Y will however dissolve in Alcohol. I have a 5th of everclear 190 proof grain alcohol. I made a batch with that. You cannot take a 5ml "shot" straight.You have to add a 5 ml dose to a 1/2 cup of water to be able to stand the taste.
The next batch I may dissolve some in a little Everclear then add it to 500ml of water.
Anyway dosing as follows
1g of the Y in 500 ml
1g/500ml =.002g per ml or 2mg per ml.
3ml would = 6mg of Yohimbine
Jag

[Built]

I recently asked the Canadian Blood Services. They said 3 days with no Ephedrine before donating. Dunno about Y.

[seriously]

I want to know what I can use to loose my last 20 pounds. They seem impossible to shed. About a month ago I finished my last bottle of xenadrine RFA and now I don't know what to use. I was reading on this thread about Vasopro Ephedrine HCl but wanted some more info on it. I follow a low carb, pretty much just healthy eating habit and I am currently doing the Si6 DVD's.

I have tried a few ones since my last xenadrine and they are all a waste of money. I need the energy & fat burning...any advice? Thanks. :wave:

[adukart]

My job has recently started randomly giving drug tests. Would ephedrine hcl show up as meth? Is it illegal to use it as a weight loss supp. or just illegal to sell it as a weight loss supp.? Should I just say I am taking it for breathing issues? Would Y show up as something? Lots of questions today, but yes, I would tell them exactly what I am taking I just don't want to get in trouble for saying I take before my workouts.

Seriuosly, I think we need more detailed questions, do you exercise?

[Built]

Ephedrine is a legit decongestant. Y is sometimes prescribed for low blood pressure, (as it raises bp), and is also sometimes prescribed for male ED. They are both legal, OTC medicines/supplements in most states of the USA as far as I know, so check what your company's policy is on health supplements and if there are any that are not allowed. Maybe get it in writing...

[eskimissy]

Ok so after reading pages 1-14 in this thread, I still have confusion as to when these supplements should be taken. 12 weeks on, four weeks off, five days a week and weekends off, etc. I was just wondering if it would work if I only took HydroxyCut, which is what I have right now, only on the days that I work out. This would be around three or four times a week. So in better words, probably every other day. I don't know if it will have the same effect since it won't be taken at a consistent rate or whatever. hmmm..

Ok then, any help would be good as to when I should take it.

Also, which pills are the best? Hydroxy Cut, Ripped Fuel, Xenadrine, etc.

Maybe someone should make a survey thingy because I sure as heck am not too sure how to do one yet! :)

I am really getting amazed as to how fascinating all of this stuff is. I can be here at my laptop for hours on end just reading through these forums.

All of you people are such great help...

Desiree

[Built]

I don't use any of the fatburner blends. I make my own homemade stack of one part Ephedrine HCL to 10 parts Caffeine.

I really don't pay any attention to cycling off and on. There's no real reason to do it, although I do give myself a month off every once in a while to switch it up, and so I can give blood (gotta have Ephedrine out of your body for 3 days before you give blood).

This guy has a TON of info on the EC or ECA stack: http://www.drumlib.com/

In Canada, Ephedrine HCL comes in 8mg tablets, so three tablets (24 mg Ephedrine) with two Wake Ups (200 mg caffeine) is approximately a "standard" dose. Because you're making it yourself, you can cut the dose waaaaay down to begin with - like, one Ephedrine tab and a half a wakeup, or a cup of coffee or tea. See how you feel, and titrate up the dose for comfort and effectiveness.

From what I've read, the Ephedrine-free fatburners don't really do anything.

I tried forskolin, and it didn't do a THING. And I didn't like synephrine AT ALL.

My .02.

[eskimissy]

Thanks built!

Eesh, I can't believe someone thought you were in a man in that other post! lol.

I guess they hadn't looked at your profile :)

thank you so much for your response.

Can you just buy ephedrin at GNC or something. it just sounds weird how you can buy it alone when there's so much bad hype about it. Also, for the caffeine, do you take caffeine pils, or just drink alot of coke? lol. I highly doubt the coke part though ;)

thanks for the site link. it's a little confusing, but I'm still reading!

Take care
-des

[Built]

Ephedrine is legal as a decongestant. You can buy it online, some bodybuilding supply stores sell it too.

I take wakeups. 1 wakeup is 100 mg caffeine.

N/P on being taken as a man. I actually take it as a compliment - I like it that they see my information first, not my gender.

Still funny when it happens though! :lol:

[eskimissy]

I know you guys have already discussed Ripped Fuel, but what about Ripped Fuel extreme? Does it work just as well or better?

I bought a bottle tonight at Wal mart and I don't plan on taking it till i get some feed back. If it sucks I'll just take it back! :)

HELP

[mps]

Check the label... it is most likely ephedra free. It still has about 200 mg of caffine and some other stuff. It will give you energy (like coffee) so I wouldn't say it's useless. Probably good preworkout, but not as powerful as E/C stack.

[eskimissy]

thanks. Like five minutes ago I was reading the label, and in really teeny writing printed on the bottle, not the plastic label, it says "ephedra free."

heh, i guess they don't like to advertise it as much as the others.

I also so Hydroxy cut for low carbers. What do you think about that?

[pookalee]

I took Hydroxycut and although it didnt seriously pep me up, it did kill the appetite a bit.

[eskimissy]

so then which one is the best to take that contains ephedra?

Is ephedra the same as ephedrine? hmmm.

I want to pick up something good today that will help me in my weight loss. How about Xenadrine or Stacker?

Anyone?

[Built]

Ephedra is an herb. Ephedrine HCL is the drug that's IN ephedra.

I don't trust herbals. I only trust what I make for myself, so I can't recommend an herbal preparation. IMHO, stick to homemade stack - more effective, and a LOT safer because you know EXACTLY what dose you're taking.

And it's really no substitute for proper diet and training. I'm down over 30 pounds from when I started, having probably put on about 12-15 pounds of muscle in that time.

I have probably dropped about 45 pounds of fat over the last 3 years. Stack MIGHT be responsible for 10 pounds of it.

[ex_vegan]

has anyone here ever used hot-rox or redbands? Did they like them? Caffiene pills have no effect on me whatsoever neither does coffee. Bummer....

[chisa]

i have read that these things aren't good from cycling forums. apparently you get the shakes and men can sometimes ......umm ......dimish while on it if you know what i'm saying. the only one that does work is the asprin, ephedrine, caffine stack but now many don't contain the ephedrine as i think it's illegal in the US. how they work apparently is that the ephedrine - which is properly a bronchial assisatant - and the caffine speed up body functions and the asprin helps the dose to be absorbed and delivered better.

[chisa]

further to what i said ephedra and ephedrine are essentially the same thing as is a chinese herb called ma huang. i think ephedrine is the drug company style name. i believe these stacks are popular with bodybuilders during the "cutting" stage where the seek to lose as much body fat as possible. i personally wouldn't touch them.

[Built]

i have read that these things aren't good from cycling forums.

We read a lot of things all over the place.

I've read that Atkins makes your brain die. :rolleyes:


apparently you get the shakes and men can sometimes ......umm ......dimish while on it if you know what i'm saying. the only one that does work is the asprin, ephedrine, caffine stack but now many don't contain the ephedrine as i think it's illegal in the US. how they work apparently is that the ephedrine - which is properly a bronchial assisatant - and the caffine speed up body functions and the asprin helps the dose to be absorbed and delivered better.

Ephedrine HCL is legal in the US as a decongestant.

Ephedra is an herb which contains Ephedrine in varying concentrations. Interestingly, Ephedrine is also in a plant called Mormon Tea - Mormon's are forbidden to drink coffee or tea, but I understand that they CAN drink tea made from this herb.

further to what i said ephedra and ephedrine are essentially the same thing as is a chinese herb called ma huang. i think ephedrine is the drug company style name. i believe these stacks are popular with bodybuilders during the "cutting" stage where the seek to lose as much body fat as possible. i personally wouldn't touch them.

Ma Huang is indeed the Chinese name for the plant Ephedra.

I don't trust herbal sources of drugs - not enough standardization for my taste.

But I love my EC stack. I've taken it off and on for years, and had no problems whatsoever. It actually helps drop your cholesterol, in addition to being a thermogen.

[sophotia]

Hey Built I noticed U said U take threee-8mg of Ephidrine and and 2 Wake ups. Do U just take this dose once a day?

[Built]

Hi there sophotia

I don't personally like to take a full stack 3x a day - I prefer to take a smaller stack 4-5x a day. I find it more comfortable. My mini-stack is 2x8mg ephedrine and a 100mg wakeup, and sometimes a cup of tea.

[sophotia]

Okay well I went to http://www.drumlib.com/ and they seem to only sell the ephedrine in 30mg pills? I can't really locate any others without the guffieson(sp) in it online. Can these pills be cut into 4's?

Can these pills be bought in supplement store or I can only acquire them via the Internet?

Thanx for all your :help: :D

[seriously]

After reading through this entire thread...I have ordered both of these below and I shall be receiving them next week
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=50
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=48

I have a couple of questions, I am 5'0 and 135 lbs. How much do you suggest I start with since I'm smaller than the average woman? ;)

Also, can someone tell me what are the benefits you would say you get from the ephedrine/caffeine combo? For what I have gathered, energy and fat burning, is that correct?

TIA... :D

[Built]

Okay, here's my suggestion:

Take a HALF an ephedrine, and a HALF a caffeine tab, first thing in the morning.

So, 12.5 mg E, 100 mg C.

See how you feel.

Personally, I like little stacks like this taken more frequently than a big one all at once. You may find that taking this mini-stack 4-5 times a day is more comfortable than taking the full 25mg E and 200 mg C three times a day.

[seriously]

Thanks Built. I have other questions if I may:

1. Take in before the morning workout or after? Should they always be taken with some kind of food?
2. What about if I happen to not exercise one day, do I still take them that day?
3. Lastly, I'm curious to know how this combination came about being that the Vasopro is being sold as an Expectorant Bronchodilator. I was telling my husband about it since he finally has joined a gym and I wanted him to start taking it as well but he's being skeptical about it. I had a hard time explaining to him the why of this combination.

I'd really appreciate your answers.

[Trainerdan]

1. Take before. I find that it takes 30 - 45 mins to kick in. I also find that taking with food diminishes the effect, so take on an empty stomach.

2. This is up to you, depending on how you want to use it. If you are using it as a pre-workout boost, then just use on your workout days. If you are using it to maximize fat loss, take every day. I like the 5 days on - 2 days off schedule.

3. It's about the legality issue. Ephedra can't be sold as a fat loss agent anymore, but it can help you with that slight (wink wink) asthma you have.

[seriously]

;) Wow, thanks. That was amazingly speedy answer Trainerdan!

I'd like to use it as an energy source but mostly to burn fat. I have been stuck with my last 20-30 lbs for over a year and no matter what I do, it's not going away.

I decided for me just eating healthy and trying to keep the carbs at a minimum is the way to go due to my IBS issues. But exercising it's another whole topic, just don't have the energy for it.

That said, if I start with what Built recommended 12.5 mg E, 100 mg C. in the morning, that should be twice a day, right? I'm guessing it's 25 mg E and 200 caffeine daily?

I just need a little kick on the butt to get me off my bed at 5:00 am to workout. :agree: and losing a few lbs would definitely encourage me some after almost a year of stalling!

[sophotia]

Ephedrine w/out expectorant (http://www.thestimulantpeople.com/cgi-bin/dnestore/10082782.html)

[Terry67]

I have to agree with Trainerdan! I was stuck at the same weight for a couple of years and the ephedra combined with caffeine on an empty stomach seems to produce the best results. :agree:

[Built]

Yep. Ditto this.

Keep it by your bed, and knock it back with water as soon as you wake up. It'll keep you awake, and make it a lot easier to get up and get going.

Try the mini-stack twice a day for a bit. Titrate up the dose until you find a comfortable level, which may very well be 5 or 6 of these mini-stacks a day. Or it might be 3. Or you may prefer to take one or two larger doses - everybody is different here. As I stated earlier, I like to keep it steady through the day, not big whacks all in one, but some folks like this.

Post up what you find works for you. It's always interesting to hear what other people find helpful.

[seriously]

Thanks guys for all the great help and quick responses! I'm so excited, can hardly wait to receive them.

Built, I think I'll take your advise and keep them on my nightstand and as soon as the alarm goes off take them, that way even if i wanted to I won't be able to sleep anymore. ;)

[sophotia]

I ordered my stack last night as well. I have read up on the benefits of stacking when I first did Atkins like 7-8 years ago and used to take stuff like Xenadrine and Hydroxycut. But I wasn't dieting as seriously as I should have been and was not working out. Now all my ducks in a row and I can't wait to see how everything works out. Thanx for all the information that has been offered here.

[seriously]

Ok guys..just got my pills. What a speedy delivery!
I just took 12.5 E and 100 Mg C with plenty of water. I had breakfast about 3 hrs ago. Hope this is what I have been looking for! Good Day! :D

[seriously]

Hello again,

It's been 3 hours since I took them and I love the little buzz, not too much not too little. I'm energized and alert and not too hungry throughtout lunchtime.

I think the 12.5 E & 100 Mg C works good for me. Now, how many times can I take those portions throughtout the day? 3 or 4 times? I can't remember what's the daily dosage for E/C?

As always, forever thankful!

[jquillen]

I used to take Metabolife, and it worked incredibly well for me (until I started getting dizzy spells). It was banned last year by California, so each company stopped making it. Even Ebay refuses to let you sell a product containing Ephedra.
Are companies distributing products with this ingredient again?

[Built]

Ephedra is an herb. It's illegal in the USA.

Ephedrine HCL is a legal decongestant *cough fatburner when you take it with caffeine cough*

;)

Seriously, in answer to your question, I have no trouble at all with 80mg a day taken in small doses through the day. Titrate upward until you find your comfort level.

[IdahoSpud]

You can get Ephedrine HCl here:

http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=50

As Built has stated in another post, Ephedrine HCl is the pure form of what was in ephedra products. It's laboratory grade and the dosing is consistent, unlike herbal products.

I'm on my first ever cutting cycle using any form of ephedrine, and this is far and away the most effective supplement I've ever used.

You need to be careful with it though. Read the directions carefully and do not take it if you have high BP!

Best Wishes,
Mark

[sophotia]

I received my shipment Thurs (would have started Friday if I had checked the mail Thurs.. doh!)

I took some yesterday when I got home from work. The 12.5Ephedrine and the 100mg caffeine was a nice starter dose. I took one at 8a this morning and will take another at 11am and hour before I lift.

[GeoUSA]

Anyone have experience with guarana? It is recommended by the Life Extension Foundation (www.lef.org) for its thermo effects. Apparently it is a slower release form of caffine that doesn't cause some of the edgy caffine symptoms.

[Janette360]

has anyone had any problems with feeling dependant on a stack? I love taking it but I'm feel like I do become dependant on it. Has anyone else had a similar feeling and if so how can I take it to avoid this?

[Built]

You just wean off the E, THEN wean off the C. You don't have to do it all at once.

I sometimes take a month to ramp UP to a full dose, and a month to wean down.

[GeoUSA]

Guarana report here. Have been taking 200mg of guarana several times daily for the past week. It has not made me edgy or jumpy. I have read conflicting information on the web. Some sources indicate it is nothing but a form of caffine and others indicate that it is more beneficial for the body. LEF reports that it may help the body to actually reduce in quantity (not just shrink) fat cells. Below is a lengthy write-up from LEF. By the way, I ordered guarana from Netrition and not LEF.

HOW GUARANA INDUCES FAT LOSS

Clinical Studies on Guarana
Guarana is an herb that contains a form of caffeine called guaranine which is 2.5 times stronger than the caffeine found in coffee, tea, and soft drinks. What makes guaranine unique from the caffeine found in beverages is its slower release. That is because the guarana seed is fatty (even in powder form) and is not readily water-soluble. Therefore, the body does not quickly absorb it.

Since guaranine is released slowly, over a period as long as 6 hours, the energy boost that is experienced from guarana is not like that of coffee (a sudden rush and quick drop-off). Rather, the energy boost continues to escalate over hours.

While caffeine from beverages provides a short-lived energy burst that overheats and excites the body, guaranine has a cooling action that revitalizes and relaxes. This is because guarana contains other components that modify the activity of guaranine. The end result is more beneficial to the body than tea or coffee.

Guarana aids in a temporary, natural increase in body temperature and metabolic thermogenesis through nutritional stimulation of the body's beta-receptor pathway, which can induce the breakdown and release of stored body fat and thereby allow stored fats to be turned into energy. Thermogenesis refers to the body's production of heat. Heat production is a normal part of metabolic processes and can be enhanced by certain nutritional substances. Thermogenesis is both a source of heat and, when stimulated through appropriate dietary supplementation, a mechanism to increase metabolic rate. Stored body fat, if released and available for use, can provide the fuel for this increased metabolic rate.

Other active constituents of guarana are theobromine and theophylline, which are called xanthines (a class of thermogenic substances found in coffee, tea, and certain beans). They have some effect on increasing metabolic rate, suppressing appetite, and enhancing both physical and mental performance. They also act as muscle relaxants and possess diuretic properties.

Interestingly, caffeine accelerates the effectiveness of CLA, thus making CLA a more potent fat burner. Guarana has been shown to stimulate the migration of lipids so fat can be burned as energy. It is also an appetite suppressant.

Guarana also increases mental alertness, fights fatigue, and increases stamina and physical endurance. Guarana is taken daily as a health tonic by millions of Brazilians. In the United States, guarana holds GRAS-status (Generally Regarded as Safe). In 1989 a patent was filed on a guarana seed extract that was capable of inhibiting platelet aggregation in mammals. The patent described guarana's ability to prevent the formation of blood clots and to help in the breakdown of clots that had already been formed. Clinical evidence was presented in conjunction with the patent in 1989 and again in 1991 by a Brazilian research group demonstrating these anti-aggregation properties (Bydlowski et al. 1991).


Clinical Studies on Guarana
In a study reported in The Journal of Human Nutrition Diet, guarana extract induced weight loss for over 45 days in overweight patients taking a mixed herbal preparation containing yerbemate, guarana, and damiana (Andersen et al. 2001). Body weight reductions were 11.22 pounds in the guarana group compared to less than 1 pound in the group receiving placebo for 45 days.

Guarana extract and its fractions decreased platelet aggregation up to 37% of control values and decreased platelet thromboxane formation from arachidonic acid up to 78% of control values (Bydlowski et al. 1991). When platelets hyperaggregate and/or when excess thromboxane formation occurs, this can initiate an arterial blood clot, which results in a heart attack or ischemic stroke.

In a 1997 study in rats, guarana increased the physical activity of the rats as well as increased physical endurance under stress and increased memory with single doses as well as with chronic doses. Interestingly enough, this study revealed that whole guarana seed extract performed better and more effectively than a comparable dosage of caffeine or ginseng extract (Espinola et al. 1997).

Another Brazilian research group has studied the apparent effect of guarana to increase memory, which is thought to be linked to the essential oils found in the seed (Galduroz et al. 1996). Its antibacterial properties against Escherichia coli and Salmonella have been documented as well (da Fonseca et al. 1994).

A 1998 toxicology study with animals has shown that guarana is nontoxic at even high dosages of up to 2 grams/kg of body weight. This same study demonstrated the antioxidant properties of guarana, saying: "Guarana showed an antioxidant effect because, even at low concentrations (1.2 mcg/mL), it inhibited the process of lipid peroxidation" (Mattei et al. 1998).

A major advantage to taking guarana in an oil base capsule is its relatively slow release into the body. In a study reported in the journal Pharmacology Biochemical Behavior in November 1997, a comparison was made of the absorption of caffeine from coffee, cola, or capsules. Based on saliva caffeine concentrations, the absorption from capsules was about 40% slower than that of coffee or colas. These capsules were not oil-based, yet the rate of caffeine absorption was still significantly slower than coffee or cola (Liguori et al. 1997).


CLA + GUARANA

The effect of CLA on blocking excess absorption of serum glucose and fatty acids into adipocytes (fat cells) is remarkable. CLA induces a reduction in the size of adipocytes. One of the reasons that people gain weight as they age is that their adipocytes literally become fatter.

Another cause of increased body fat storage is the proliferation of adipocytes. Whereas CLA helps block the absorption of fat and sugar into adipocytes, CLA does not reduce the actual number of adipocytes present. Guarana has been shown to specifically reduce the number of adipocytes. When CLA was combined with guarana, there was a 50% reduction in adipocyte number (FASEB 2002).

In response to the FASEB (2002) study showing an added benefit when CLA is combined with guarana, a supplement has been formulated that contains potencies of CLA and guarana that have demonstrated fat-loss effects in published studies (available from Life Extension Foundation). CLA is also available by itself as a supplement for those who are overly sensitive to caffeine.

Whereas many published studies document the fat-reducing effects of CLA, the fact that CLA may protect against cancer, vascular disease, and Type II diabetes makes it a preferred supplement for health-conscious people to use daily.

[binki]

Sorry to jump subjects, but just one quick question: Do any of the resident stackers here compete? How long before a competition do you have to stop taking ephedrine to avoid any worries about doping tests?

[LukeA]

My experiences with thermogenic pills:
-tried hydroxycut for awhile, felt horribly sick the whole time.
-tried xenadrine rfx (the ephedra containing one), after a couple weeks of taking it, i was all of a sudden started having severe racing of my heart, along with migraines every single day. One day i was rushed to hospital one day after school, i was having a small stroke (i was 16 years old 6 foot 3, and 180 pounds).
- tried xenadrine efx, developed severe migraines, and the asprin caused my asthma to act up.
- tried lean+, which is ephedra free, but it contains bitter orange. Taking it caused my blood pressure to skyrocket to dangerous levels.

None of these products helped me lose weight at all, and i beleive they are much to risky for the majority of people.

[Built]

My experiences with thermogenic pills:
-tried hydroxycut for awhile, felt horribly sick the whole time.
-tried xenadrine rfx (the ephedra containing one), after a couple weeks of taking it, i was all of a sudden started having severe racing of my heart, along with migraines every single day. One day i was rushed to hospital one day after school, i was having a small stroke (i was 16 years old 6 foot 3, and 180 pounds).
- tried xenadrine efx, developed severe migraines, and the asprin caused my asthma to act up.
- tried lean+, which is ephedra free, but it contains bitter orange. Taking it caused my blood pressure to skyrocket to dangerous levels.

None of these products helped me lose weight at all, and i beleive they are much to risky for the majority of people.

Okay, you tried hydroxycut, xenadrine rfx, xenadrine efx, AND lean +, even though you had crappy reactions to thermogenics right off the bat?

(And I'll add, why on EARTH were you taking it at 16, 6'3", and 180 pounds. You would have been a STICK at 180 pounds).

Ephedrine is an old drug. Even with caffeine, it's very safe for most, but not all people. If you had such a bad reaction to thermogens right from the start, why did you keep going? Slow learner?

You used these products unwisely. Save the scaremongering for someplace else.

[LukeA]

First off, sorry if i made it sound like these products are always a bad choice. I don't beleive they are, and i beleive they can be very helpful in certain situations with certain people. :) I just think that before considering taking them, people should know the facts that it can be risky.

I tried these products because first of all i was younger and naive, and i had some weight to lose. I always took them according to directions, and that never wavered. At 180 pounds i was not overweight but i definately was not a "stick" I was on those pills at that time because i was in the process of losing 45 pounds, and i just had started taking the pills to help get off the last 5-10 pounds. The xenadrine efx, and lean+ i took years after the first two. ;)

I used them according to directions, and i did not use them unwisely. Yes it is true that these drugs contain warnings on the labels to only take if you don't have high blood pressure, asthma etc. However the problem is the majority of people that have these problems in the first place are not aware that they have them, and think themself to be relatively healthy, and then take these drugs putting them at a very big risk. So imho they should in the least go get a complete physical before ever even considering taking these products.
Anyway peace out, and good luck everyone with your weight loss endevours. :wave:

[Built]

My husband weighs 180 pounds. At 5'11", he's not a stick, but he's not a big guy by any stretch. At 6'3", 180 would be thin for a woman.

Using them according to directions doesn't imply you used them wisely - you were too young, too thin, AND you had a bad reaction to them from the get-go. The fact that you tried four different thermogens even though you had a bad reaction to the first and a stroke from the second DEFINITELY shows you were using them inappropriately.

[RRunyan]

For the better informed out there.

I've read all the posts here but still have a basic question. Why would a state ban Ephedra but still allow Ephedrine to be sold? If Ephedra will kill you, wouldn't Ephedrine do the same? What am I missing here?

Ron

[Built]

Good question, considering that cigarettes, which will kill a substantial portion of their users, are still VERY legal.

Personally, I prefer the idea of Ephedrine HCL over Ephedra because the former is a standardized drug, and the latter is an herbal - easier to keep the dosing consistent - so the ban on Ephedra is, for me, a moot point.

Drumlib has a lot to say about this. You could start there.

http://www.drumlib.com/

http://www.talkaboutsupport.com/group/alt.support.obesity/messages/3725.html

[jagbender]

For the better informed out there.

I've read all the posts here but still have a basic question. Why would a state ban Ephedra but still allow Ephedrine to be sold? If Ephedra will kill you, wouldn't Ephedrine do the same? What am I missing here?

Ron
IMHO
Politics
Herbal supplement producers do not have the clout that the drug industry has.
Ephedra is a herbal supplement and Ephedrine hcl is a drug.
Ephedra and Ephedra hcl CAN be used to create illegal drugs.
That is why you see so many ephdrine pills with guipheneisen added it makes it harder to convert the E into illegal drugs
Kinda like the "assault weapons ban"
The "assault" weapons were never actully banned. You just had to buy the weapon in a different configuration!

Jag

[Janette360]

what about taking E with a stack without E such as xenadrine (the one without E of course). Would this mimic the old product? I wouldn't do this of course until I researched the ingrdiantes in it but just thought I would ask here first. I like the idea of combining the two because of the other ingredients in them such as chromium and green tea extract. I don't want to take them all separately...too many. What do you all think.

[jagbender]

The ECA (less aspirin) stack is very cheap to make yourself. I assume that it would be fine to add E to an off the shelf thermogenic.
I have combined EC stack with chromium and green tea extract with no problems.
The biggest benifit from EC stack is its appetite suppression.
There are some limited benifits as far as fat burning but I am finding that proper diet and exercise are giving me better results.

Jag

[Janette360]

Thanks for the reply. One more question-I know that it works better on an empty stomach so is taking it two hours after eating be ok? That would be after already taking it first thing in the morningn a hour before breakfast. I would take the second after a late lunch and before a workout. I would like to take smaller amounts throughout the day. And could you let me know where you get yours...are we allowed?

[triplemom]

Has anybody tried Lipovarin? I was just curious. I was looking at information on the internet about it and was thinking about trying it.

[eskimissy]

I think I saw a commercial for that stuff. They claim that you'll lose weight w/out doing anything differently huh? If it works then I'll be excited :D It's kinda hard though to believe things like that because it almost sounds like the miracle pill everyone's been looking for!!

then again I might be thinking about the wrong pill....

[noname097]

my friend said Hot Rox works...
any comments???

[Trainerdan]

I have never tried Hot Rox. I just stick with good ol' ephedrine hcl and caffeine.

[scthgharpy]

Wow, I just started this thread today, and started reading at he beginning-4 years ago! Holy COW, what a wealth of information! I know ECA has been in the news a lot the last few years, I think even resulting in some legislation after some abuses caused a few deaths..who was that baseball player...

Knowing what you know now, would you still recommend ECA stacks? I have a very sensitive metabolism; even though Im quite strict in my LC regimen, and stall quite easily-my work commute doesnt afford me much more than maybe 30 mins of walking a day, and I need something to keep my metabolism more cranked up!

Something legal, that is. :)

[kbfunTH]

I've been using E/C/A combinations (25mg/200mg/325mg respectively) since early 1990. I don't use it as much today as in the past, but I still keep it on hand for occasional short cycles.

While I believe it to by the best OTC fat burning supplement on the market, it is still not a substitution to a proper calorie/exercise balance.

[Jamori]

I find when taking an E/C stack, I get much more moody / have mood swings that normally I don't have.

Has anyone else experienced this? I supposed it could be attributed to something else, so I just wanted to ask if this was a common side-effect.

[Trainerdan]

No, it makes me a bit more moody too. I get aggitated alot faster when I take E/C, and have alot less patience.

[all_biz]

I tried to cut carbs after reading the excellent book "Dine Out Lose Weight"...(it really isn't about dining out which is quirky.) It is a more livable version of Adkins....Long before Sugar Busters, etc. My issue was a daily heightened craving for ice cream, sweets that I never had before I cut out normal american eating of rice, bread, pasta, and sugar-laced foods, so after several tries, I kept failing at moving to the new lower carb diet. Then I discovered Xenadrine (ephedra version) and my prayers were answered. Call it side effects, but I lost the cravings and I dropped weight in a hurry taking relatively small doses (in combo with low carb eating.) I went from about 145 to 118 and was the weight I dreamed of all of my adult years...the attention....being called too skinny by my envious friends. Then I dropped my dose to one approx. every other day, seemed to eat what I wanted and stayed at the same weight. I stayed that way for a few years on this low dose. Then everything became Ephedra free and I ran out of my last bottle, tried the Xenadrine ephedra free and it wasn't the same...didn't work at all...just had the same terrible smell :-D. I had a couple of side affects, one was/is random twitching and/or small muscle spasms. I haven't had ephedra in at least a year, and minor stress causes the annoying twitch to occur (prior to ephedra I never recall having any twitches.) Another may be hypoglycemia, but I think the others of you that have the sugar high dizziness, feeling like you are going to pass out if you drink a frozen sugar and ice drink from DQ...it may be because when you cut out sugar over time, the body just can't handle high doses in one sitting anymore. At least that's been my experience. I will say that when on Ephedra I didn't have any tolerance for high sugar candy in larger portions without wanting to fall asleep.

Here's the problem...I want something that works like Xenadrine Ephedra and to tell you the truth, I'll put up with minor twitching to stay 118 pounds at 35 years old. In the past year or so since I lost my occasional ephedra dose, I have crept up to 135 pounds and I hate it. I still eat relatively the same as when I was 118 pounds, so it is the ephedra difference. Please someone help tell me which product is going to work like the old Xenadrine Ephedra brand. I am sad that they pulled it from the shelves, and if anyone knows of a legal way to get it (or a similar effect) based on law changes and new available products, please tell me.

[kutaylor]

I just bought 96 tabs of 25 grams ephedra...now what do I take with the ephedra, and how often. I would appreciate any help. Thanks and also where is a good spot to find caffeine pills?

[kutaylor]

Also I bought Vasopro Ephedrine Tabs at 25 mg. Are these good?

[Meg_S]

kutaylor: I get my caffeine at bodybuilding.com or at 1fast400.com - which ever one's cheaper.

I took 125mg vasopro with 1 200mg caffeine.. generally twice a day, sometimes three. But I'm a lot bigger (5 10" was 150lbs) and had a high tolerance for stims. I'd start off with a half dose, if you're used to caffeine take a whole pill, if not just have a cup of coffee or something with 1/2 a vasopro before you exercise, or if you don't work out than take it in the morning and go from there.
The generally recommended dose is 25-30g eph. per 200mg caffeine, MAX three times a day. Sometimes aspirin is thrown in there but I never did it and don't think aspirin should be taken recreationally anyway.

I think the difference between ephedra and ephedrine hcl (vasopro) is that one of them is standardized, ie: probably safer. Try both out and see what you like better.. the effects they have on your body. Vasopro is good.

Allbiz: You didn't mention whether you exercised or not... I'm not saying the ephedra doesn't work, I love it.. but at 35 (not old, but you do start changing) if you're not resistance training you're definitely losing muscle mass on a yearly basis (muscle=metabolism) and will be able to eat less and less trying to maintain the same weight, it may become impossible to maintain weight without it as you get older. I'd recommend the stuff I was talking about in the above paragraph.. get some vasopro and stack it with a caffeine tablet

[kutaylor]

I exercise very regulary 6x week, I have recently been going thru A LOT of stress and was looking for something to help curb cravings and get me a little more motivated. I am having a really hard time getting under 140 and I'd like to sit around 130-135. I am running a half marathon on Sept. 24 and thought that my body should be dropping weight more steadily. Thanks for the quick reply!!

[surfer376]

Anyone tried Fahrenheit?
The metabolism breakthrough for woman.
I bought a bottle today and only took one at work...I swear I was feeling warm and in spots not normal.
It was a bit expensive and I have taken lot's of others

[Meg_S]

nope...only read about it. I've got a year+ of breastfeeding before I can start playing with supps again :) Keep us updated, I'd love to know what your experience is and what you think of it.

[surfer376]

Will do meg...thanks for your reply!

[sophotia]

I find when taking an E/C stack, I get much more moody / have mood swings that normally I don't have.

Has anyone else experienced this? I supposed it could be attributed to something else, so I just wanted to ask if this was a common side-effect.

Actually the combo gives me a rush of seratonin. May have something to do with my ADD and lack of that chemical but it gives me the happys for a few hours.

[kutaylor]

What is a good combo?

Isn't it 10mg ephedra/100 milligrams Caffeine?

Shouldn't this be taken 3x daily?

[vbrowne]

Isn't it 10mg ephedra/100 milligrams Caffeine? THat sounds very scary - be careful!

Vikki

[burtonar]

I am curious as to if Xenadrine EFX is still the number one thermo (without ephedrine) or has anyone tried the NRG (8 hr Xenadrine)? I have also researched and found that TriCuts III has the ingredients i would prefer except that it is a bit too expensive. I tried Xenadrine NRG myself and didn't notice any effect at all. I was wondering if EFX is really worth-while because if it's anything like NRG i don't want to waste my money. Any comments would be appreciated since this forum goes back to last year and I would like to hear more "up-to-date" experiences. It would be pretty good if Xenadrine EFX is still number one after all the new fat burners have come out!

[Absinthe62]

burtonar,
I think the whole thermogenic supplement craze is over. The only really effective ones contained ephedra in some form, and that is now banned.

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money. Think about how much high-quality food you can buy for the $30+ you would spend on a bottle of "fat burners" that may or may not do anything.

[sln88]

I thought they lifted the ban on ephedra?

[Meg_S]

30 mgs Ephedrine HCL (different than just ephedra) to 200mg caffeine.

As for all other supplements being useless.. I don't know, yohimbine is pretty potent. I don't know how effective it is for fatloss, but when I bought it for that reason it had such an effect on my libido I decided it was too good to build up a tolerance to and put it away for a rainy day ;)

[Nancy LC]

LOL! Too funny, Meg! :)

[Donna I.]

I lost 70lbs using 24 mgs ephedrine once a day and drinking coffee to extend the effects. This time around I was on lowcarb for the past 4 months, lost nothing and now that I have just started back on ephedrine I am losing again. I am not sure about the thermogenic effect, but for me it is a very good appetite suppressant and that is what I need. I have done my own research on it and I swear by the stuff.

[Trainerdan]

The ban on ephedra got overturned in a lower court, so you CAN find some ephedrine products out there now ... Nothing like before though.

A bottle of ephedrine Hcl is about $10, not $30 as absinthe suggests. Add a Vivarin tablet with it, and you have a strong fat burner/appetite suppressant.

Of course, read the labels and heed the warnongs before you take anything like this though ...

[pinkanml]

Has anyone tried Leptoprin/Leptopril?

[Anthony123]

ordered my stuff for ECA stack today

[yee]

hi! i have a couple questions about ECA. i've read alot about it in the forums here but still have a couple questions. I've read that spme people suggested not taking aspirin....so just E/C...what about just taking the E and omit the cafeine/aspirin? what will be the effect of just taking E alone ( on weight lost etc)

also since the E makes your heart rate go faster....do you guys (those of you that take ECAs) take if right before you exercise...half an hr before? a few hours before...?

i've only just started taking E-HCL for 2 days and didn't notice much difference yet...although my heart rate might be faster...but like 6-8 hrs later....

just would like to hear some of your experience/advice. thank you !

[Meg_S]

I believe the weighloss and appetite suppressant comes from something synergistic between the E+C. Don't quote me on it because I don't remember where I read it in my supplement readings. As a long time user, if I was trying to be conservative with the amount used I'd take it 30-60 mins before a workout (ahhh I miss those days, awesome workouts! I'm nursing so don't take anything like that). If I wasn't trying to be conservative I would take a dose of E in the morning with my coffee, another at lunch, and another 30 mins before my workout. 30 mins is a ballpark figure, not a make or break one. Even if you don't "notice" your heartrate going up I always felt a certain exhilaration and an ease in breathing, a sort of generalized excitement when I took the stack.

[mynx559]

I used this product before and had some results. I recently seen it in my local drugstore. Has anyone used this before? I cant seem to find any information online about the dosage you should take for weight loss. It contains 8 mg of Ephedrine Hydrochloride.

Thanks

[jamaicaker]

What products have ephedra?

[lil' annie]

burtonar,
I think the whole thermogenic supplement craze is over. The only really effective ones contained ephedra in some form, and that is now banned.

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money. Think about how much high-quality food you can buy for the $30+ you would spend on a bottle of "fat burners" that may or may not do anything.


I noticed the other day that the drugstore had several dozen different dieting supplements... so presumably a place like GNC which is national, should have a similarly large selection, and probably MUCH larger.

I thought that the herb ephedra was never sold anymore. Someone in this very old thread mentions that the ban on it had been lifted.