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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 14:16
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
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Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
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Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Thumbs down Death Rate Drops With Each Added Fruit and Veggie Serving

Forget "5-A-Day" new 'study' says:
Quote:
... researchers found that those who consumed eight or more servings were 22 percent less likely to die from heart disease than those who consumed three or fewer servings a day.

"This is probably the largest study of its type and should convince even the greatest skeptic of the value of fruits and veggies," said Dr. Randall Zusman, director of the division of hypertension at Massachusetts General Hospital.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/heart-...ory?id=12639620

Let's rip it up

Last edited by mike_d : Wed, Jan-19-11 at 14:23. Reason: format
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 15:21
Ilikemice's Avatar
Ilikemice Ilikemice is offline
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Plan: Paleo-ish general LC
Stats: 151/119/118 Female 64 in
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Location: Middle Tennessee
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From the article:
Quote:
It also may not be what fruits and veggies add to the diet, but what they replace. There's less room in the diet for the high-fat, high-cholesterol, high-salt foods often associated with increased risk of heart disease when someone is consuming so many fruits and vegetables each day, doctors noted.


Groan.

Isn't this like what Dr. Kendrick called an "ad-hoc" explanation, as the many examples he pointed out in his book The Great Cholesterol Con?

Last edited by Ilikemice : Wed, Jan-19-11 at 15:34.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 15:37
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
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Also from the article:
Quote:
A day of eight servings amounts to about 23 ounces. Eating nearly a pound and a half of produce may sound daunting, but put it into real terms and it becomes more manageable:

"A large navel orange can easily weight close to 8 ounces and so does a large apple," says Carla Wolper with the Obesity Research Center at St. Lukes-Roosevelt Hospital in New York.
So, if I eat 3 large navel oranges a day, I'll be healthy. For some reason, adding that much fructose to my body doesn't seem to a sensible thing for me to do.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 15:53
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
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Plan: The Real Human Diet
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Quote:
Quote:
It also may not be what fruits and veggies add to the diet, but what they replace. There's less room in the diet for the high-fat, high-cholesterol, high-salt foods often associated with increased risk of heart disease when someone is consuming so many fruits and vegetables each day, doctors noted.


They almost got it right. Eating that many fruits and vegetables also leaves less room for processed, refined carbage. It's not the fruits and veggies that are healthy. It's eating less carbage that's healthy.
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 16:11
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
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Probably the "healthy user effect". People who follow nutrition rules are more likely to be healthier in other aspects of their life as well.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 16:18
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
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http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...10118200815.htm


Quote:
ScienceDaily (Jan. 18, 2011) — A European study investigating the links between diet and disease has found that people who consume more fruit and vegetables have a lower risk of dying from ischaemic heart disease -- the most common form of heart disease and one of the leading causes of death in Europe. However, the authors point out that a higher fruit and vegetable intake occurs among people with other healthy eating habits and lifestyles, and that these factors could also be associated with the lower risk of dying from IHD.


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Data analysed from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) Heart study has shown that people who ate at least eight portions of fruit and vegetables a day had a 22% lower risk of dying from IHD than did those who consumed fewer than three portions a day. A portion weighed 80 grams, equal to a small banana, a medium apple, or a small carrot.

Dr Francesca Crowe of the Cancer Epidemiology Unit at the University of Oxford, UK, and the first author of the paper by the EPIC study collaborators, said: "This study involved over 300,000 people in eight different European countries, with 1,636 deaths from IHD. It shows a 4% reduced risk of dying from IHD for each additional portion of fruit and vegetables consumed above the lowest intake of two portions. In other words, the risk of a fatal IHD for someone eating five portions of fruit and vegetables a day would be 4% lower compared to someone consuming four portions a day, and so on up to eight portions or more."

Ischaemic heart disease (IHD) is characterised by reduced blood supply to the heart; people suffering from it can develop angina, chest pains and have a heart attack.

The EPIC study started in 1992 and recruited participants from a total of ten European countries* until 2000. For the analysis of IHD deaths, data from eight countries for people aged between 40 and 85 were used. Participants answered questions about their diet at the time of entry to the study and other questions about health, socio-economic status and life-style, such as smoking, drinking and exercise habits. They were followed-up for an average of nearly eight and a half years.

The researchers found that the average intake of fruit and vegetables was five portions a day; people in Greece, Italy and Spain ate more, and those in Sweden ate less.

When analysing the data, the researchers made allowances for confounding factors such as differences in lifestyles and eating habits. However, the study could be limited by errors in measuring correctly people's fruit and vegetable intake as well as other aspects of their diet. In addition, the study had a higher proportion of women, which might not be generalisable to the wider European population.

Dr Crowe said: "The main message from this analysis is that, in this study, people who consume more fruits and vegetables have lower risk of dying from IHD. However, we need to be cautious in our interpretation of the results because we are unsure whether the association between fruit and vegetable intake and risk of IHD is due to some other component of diet or lifestyle.

"If we could understand, by means of well-designed intervention studies, the biological mechanisms that could underlie the association between fruits and vegetables and IHD, this might help to determine whether or not the relation between fruit and vegetables with IHD risk is causal."

In an accompanying editorial, Professor Sir Michael Marmot, director of the University College London (UCL) International Institute for Society and Health, head of the UCL Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, and chairman of the Commission on Social Determinants of Health, writes that it is difficult to reach firm conclusions about causation from results that show a 22% lower risk of dying from IHD (an odds ration of 0.78) in people who eat eight portions of fruit and vegetables a day.

He continues: "Such an odds ratio is, however, of huge practical importance. Cardiovascular disease is the most common cause of death. A reduction of 22% is huge. But... this reduction in mortality comes with consumption of eight portions a day, or 640g. Such a high consumption was found in only 18% of the men and women in these eight cohorts. There would need to be big shift in dietary patterns to achieve this healthy consumption of eight portions a day. It is worth trying to move in that direction. Reductions in cancers of several sites, in blood pressure and stroke, would add to this reduction in fatal CHD. Moving to a diet that emphasises fruit and vegetables is of great importance to public health."

*The ten countries include: Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, The Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. For the Heart component of the study, data from France and Norway were excluded due to the small number of IHD deaths at the end of the follow-up period.


Excluding countries because they didn't have much in the way of deaths from ischemic heart disease--yeah, that makes sense. That wouldn't skew the results here at all. Wonder what their fruit and veggie intake was like?
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 16:27
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
However, the authors point out that a higher fruit and vegetable intake occurs among people with other healthy eating habits and lifestyles, and that these factors could also be associated with the lower risk of dying from IHD.
Yup. Healthy User Effect.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 16:33
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
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Plan: The Real Human Diet
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Quote:
For the Heart component of the study, data from France and Norway were excluded due to the small number of IHD deaths at the end of the follow-up period.


OMG!!! Seriously???
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Jan-19-11, 17:09
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
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Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...10118200815.htm




Excluding countries because they didn't have much in the way of deaths from ischemic heart disease--yeah, that makes sense. That wouldn't skew the results here at all. Wonder what their fruit and veggie intake was like?


Here's Norway:

Quote:
The data indicate that a considerable proportion of the consumers had a very low frequency of consumption when compared to present recommendations of intake; 31% consumed vegetables, and 24% fruits twice a week or less.


http://informahealthcare.com/doi/ab...637489509012561

I had trouble finding similar information about France, but I did come across this:

Quote:
French cuisine is divided into classic French cuisine ( haute cuisine) and provincial or regional cuisine. Classic French cuisine is elegant and formal and is mostly prepared in restaurants and catered at parties. More simple meals are usually prepared at home. Buttery, creamy sauces characterize classic French cuisine in the west, northwest, and north-central regions. The area surrounding Paris in the north-central region is the home of classic French cuisine. The area produces great wine, cheese, beef, and veal. Fish and seafood are abundant in the northern region, and the famous Belon oysters are shipped throughout France. Apples are grown in this region and apple brandy and apple cider are widely exported. Normandy is known for its rich dairy products, and its butter and cheeses are among the best in the world. The Champagne district is located in the northernmost region, bordering Belgium and the English Channel, and is world-renowned for its sparkling wines. Only those produced in this region can be legally called "champagne" in France.


http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Met-O...ns-Diet-of.html

Very little mention of fruits and veggies. Not terribly scientific, I know.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jan-20-11, 08:00
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
Posts: 5,030
 
Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
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Progress: 45%
Location: UK
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Anyone see any black swans???

Lee
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jan-20-11, 09:30
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KarenJ KarenJ is offline
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Plan: tasty animals with butter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL53563
I had trouble finding similar information about France, but I did come across this:



http://www.faqs.org/nutrition/Met-O...ns-Diet-of.html

Very little mention of fruits and veggies. Not terribly scientific, I know.


Can we rely on science anymore anyway? Seems to be all hearsay.
I'm so glad I kept my long-departed mother in law's cookbooks & recipes, as well as her grandmother's and great grandmother's. It's all in French (which I find hard to translate because of the cursive), but includes things like Tripe al'la mode de Caen, kidneys, livers, tongue, home-made cheeses, and all kinds of buttery creamy sauces.
A little easier to read is my 1938 version of Larousse Gastronomique. I wish I could get through the preface by A. Escoffier. The section on breads is only about 30 pages long out of over 1000 pages. The sections on beef, cheese, lamb, poultry, seafood are huge. There is a section on cakes, but they're for special occasions.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Jan-20-11, 10:04
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
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Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Sure. Here's something much more scientific about fruit and vegetable consumption on France.

Quote:
RESULTS: Americans appear to consume fruits and vegetables less often than their French counterparts (1.04 vs 1.33 times per day fruits; 1.98 vs 2.29 times per day vegetables).


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18270525

So the French seem to eat less than 4 servings of fruit and veg per day. That's less than the recommended amount. And about half of the 8 servings per day in the highest group from the study. Yet they had very little IHD.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, Jan-20-11, 10:51
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
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Progress: 116%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL53563
Sure. Here's something much more scientific about fruit and vegetable consumption on France.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18270525

So the French seem to eat less than 4 servings of fruit and veg per day. That's less than the recommended amount. And about half of the 8 servings per day in the highest group from the study. Yet they had very little IHD.
No wonder they were excluded from the study. You can't have data points that don't fit your preconceived results.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, Jan-20-11, 11:18
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
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Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
No wonder they were excluded from the study. You can't have data points that don't fit your preconceived results.


Who was in charge of this study, Ancel Keys?
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Jan-20-11, 11:23
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenJ
The section on breads is only about 30 pages long out of over 1000 pages.


It reminds me of when a friend of mine spent a month in France. She said the sandwiches were only an inch high! That was lunch; quite small. They only ate one big meal a day.
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