Lack of helpful responses in forum

[shutt22]

Don't take this the wrong way if you are one of the people I am about to talk about, but here is something I have been noticing on these forums.

Quite often newbies (and others) ask questions which may have been asked before, or which are answered in the Atkins book. A common response from some members is simply "Read the book yourself", or words to that affect. This hasn't happened to me , but it has made me hesitant to ask a couple of questions, myself.

I agree that people should be informed of the search function; it's a useful tool. BUT, remember, not everyone is on the Atkins plan. I'm not following the plan exactly, although I have read the book. Still, somethings may slip my mind, etc. It just seems that a simple answer would be more helpful. Not everyone has been on this plan for several months (or years). Not everyone has read every book on the subject of low carb.

Again, I mean no offense by this post, and maybe I am just over sensitive. It just seems that some people are on the Dr. Atkins payroll sometimes.


shutt22

[agonycat]

Shut22,

No offense taken. However I give you this.....

After over a year on this forum, I have seen MANY newbies come in doing Atkin's without even a clue as to what the diet is all about. They heard it from a friend of a friend of a friend and they are eating meat, cheese and eggs.

They have no clue as to what/why/where/how the diet works, nor nutritional values, supplements or vitamins they are suppose to take. This is a VERY serious diet to be on. Many people miss the fact that Dr Atkin's himself recommends people have a complete check up BEFORE they start the diet.

The diet itself makes the human body go through some massive chemical changes. This is why we stress to people to read the book and research and learn as much as possible about low carb dieting before they take the plunge. You hear many many times about low carb causing kidney damage, liver damage and other ailments but did you ever think the people that have those types of illness didn't read the book and did the diet wrong?

So don't be too hard on us. We are here to help, not offer medical advice. If you want that check with your doctor or go to www.atkinscenter.com.

Not a single moderator, mentor or admin of this board gets paid for our services. We do this on a volunteer basis only.

[Rosebud]

Hi there Shutt22,

I endorse everything Agonycat has said.
It just seems that some people are on the Dr. Atkins payroll sometimes.
On the contrary, ;) I'm doing Atkins, and know I'm not the only Atkins follower here to have suggested many times that newbies (or not so newbies) try a plan other than Dr A's in order to stay low carbing.

The one thing I do always say, though, is that after you've chosen a plan (I usually direct folk to "Which low carb plan is right for me?" at the right of the screen) to then buy the appropriate book and read it thoroughly.

This may sound defensive - I guess it is a little. But I think that mostly when people have genuine questions they are answered here. And if the answer includes a gentle admonition to read a book or two, it's for a good reason.

Cheers, mate.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

[suze_c]

It just seems that some people are on the Dr. Atkins payroll sometimes
Maybe the reason that some of these ppl of whom you speak, are enthusiastic about the first diet in their lives, that they are able to be on and lose some extra weight where all the other ones have failed....
Maybe it is because they have done the count every little gram of fat or protein or carb, religiously wrote down every calorie and morsel put into their mouth with no change in their weight, or worse yet... gaining weight.They find this diet, and for the first time in some of their lives, do NOT have to write down every morsel,and count everything nutritionally speaking that goes into their mouths.
Maybe it is because they have suffered physically different ailments, or been in pain for who knows how long, and LC'ing on Atkins is the only diet that has slowed down or sometimes even eliminated those physical ailments.
As far as not getting an answer to your questions,or other newbies getting answers... yes, it happens sometimes. I have heard that reply,... but in searching for answers, there is a WEALTH of information on this site!!! I mean there are thousands and thousands of questions and answers to those questions here...
They have no clue as to what/why/where/how the diet works, nor nutritional values, supplements or vitamins they are suppose to take. This is a VERY serious diet to be on. Many people miss the fact that Dr Atkin's himself recommends people have a complete check up BEFORE they start the diet.
WHat agonycat said is SO TRUE... I was watching on infomercial about the Atkins diet,and it was talking about how your body has became accustomed to the WRONG way of metabolizing food and how the liver,pancreas,kidneys...so on and so forth,ALL these body parts literally CHANGE the way that they are functioning... and one needs to know what they are doing.
The ppl who are moderators and higher up, have been on this program or some way of LCing and speak from expertise, and sometimes they may NOT have the answer that you are seeking... that is why the search engine comes in so handy...
And as you said... I don't mean to offend with my post either... but I had to say something about the only diet I have been on at my weight, where I am allowed to eat as much as I have and STILL lose 14# in a week's time! And look at it from those who have been here for awhile's point of view... at least they would rather point you in the right direction, than misdirect... not saying that is done intentionally or anything like that, but no one person has all the answers~ Hope you are successful on your weight loss~

[niksauntie]

When I was a newbie ( 2 short months ago) I asked a couple questions and I got the "read the book" response and I wasn't offended one bit. All it did for me was stress the importance of research. I see SO many questions on a daily basis that are the same over and over that if I were a moderator (or whoever answers these questions over and over) my responses wouldn't be near as nice as their's are. I, as a matter of fact, have thought to myself quite often that these women and men have great patience to answer the same posts day after day politely instead of saying "just do a search". I, of course, have no patience. That is why I have a GREAT BIG "HORRAAAYYYYY" for everyone responsible for keeping up this forum becuse it has basicaly made my life 100% better!!!!!!!!! YEAH for all of you who answer our questions day to day no matter how common they are!!!!!!!!

[Karen]

Oh yes. I am one of the read-the-bookers and I'm damned proud of it!

The thing that has puzzled me since lowcarb.ca's launch almost two years ago is the amount of people who want to change their life - 'cause we all know that changing your weight changes your life - without bothering to find out anything about how their chosen plan works. Switching your source of energy is a difficult, baffling and sometimes agonizing process. Why make it worse by not knowing the basic physiology?

Of course Atkins gets chosen above all others because his name is almost synonymous with this type of "dieting".

Well, you can't be on Atkins if you don't know anything about the Atkins plan.

Newbies that have not read the New Diet Revolution can be spotted a mile away. A simple click on their profile reveals that yes, it's true. The LC Books You Have Read area says : none.

Now in order that we all be talking macadamia nuts, a basic knowledge of macadamia nuts is essential. If I'm talking macadamia nuts and you're talking almonds, it will be hard to understand each other. If we get to an understanding of each others nuts, we'll better understand what the other is saying and trying to accomplish.

I've read almost every book on low-carbing there is so that I can understand what the Schwarzbeiner's or CAD'ers or Sommersizer's are talking about.

So why am I still here after almost 2 years and probably over 100 posts saying "read the book" and the 5500 or so saying something else? Because I really want people to succeed with this. And, I can't help anyone who is not willing to take the right steps to succeed.

Since World Domination is one of your interests, you could start here. I'm sure you've gained a lot of low-carbing knowledge that would be most helpful to newbies. Even to those who have not read the "book."

And, I'm not on the Atkins payroll because I follow Protein Power. The Eades send me my commission on a quarterly basis.

Karen

[suze_c]

:agree: Excellent answer Karen~ :clap:
I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head with it~ :bash:

[DuPont]

I agree with shutt22 for the most part, however I have seen some great responses...not about the diet, usually about something else.

And when I try and search this forum for an answer to my question I can never find it.

[suze_c]

DuPont & shutt22, ever think it might be the method in which you are searching? I use to be a reference librarian's assistant in a college library, and the way a search is done is vital to it's successfulness!
Try experimenting with the search options, search using showing/ using the posts instead of the threads. It brings up a little window w/ words from the original posts in, instead of having to muddle through all the threads looking for your particular answer.
If the same question gets asked 5 billion times +... I would be pretty tired of explaining the answer out in full, when there was a perfectly good explanation wrote out in in full in a database that is available to anyone who searches for it.
There is an ENORMOUS avast of wealth as far as information here... they COULD do away with some of the anwers you know... gadz think of how much web space that would save... BUT THEY KEEP IT ABOUT... *JUST IN CASE SOME ONE ELSE HAS THE SAME QUESTION!!!!
I think instead of wasting your energy whining about the situation, of applying the same amount of energy to a search, that your searches would be more successful... or perhaps you want the moon given to you on a platter too,as the saying goes.It's so much easier to put the blame on most everyone else,accuse them of being *paid* for being atkins devotees, instead of accepting responsibility & looking... and doing it wisely~

[DuPont]

Would you please explain the search options more clearly?

[suze_c]

Ok Dupont, I will try to help ya here... and give my own search as how to attach a cool little picture on to my signature to show you how I found the information..
First go to search... I put in ADDING signature picture in the window for keywords,under the orange bar at the bottom, where it says search options, I marked SEARCH ALL OPEN FORUMS, checked the boxes where it says "search entire posts" AND "show results as posts". "search for any date" and the order I used, was "sort results by last posting date"... hit enter.It brings up the ORIGINAL POST concerning the topic in a little box, where you can read it,instead of having to search through the threads for the individual posts.... or be more specific, and for the search I will put in "signature AND picture"....this brings up more posts in case I did not find my answer in the first set that it gave me... Experiment a little with how you word your searches.,.. take advantages of the wildcard options,... that is, for example, putting it as *signature picture*, with the *SUBJECT YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR* inside of the asterisks like this... I hope that this helps Dupont to find things a bit more easily... don't give up if it is not right in front of you, some reading after you hit enter will need to be done, :read 2: but hopefully I have helped make the posts/search results a little easier to find and read~ Happy searching~ :wave:

[AngelaR]

Shutt and Dupont,

At the very top of THIS forum there is a sticky that gives tons of useful info on how to use the search function. That may help you out.

Searching by forum instead of across all forums is also very useful. For example, you can start by searching for answers to general LC questions just in this general low carb forum, or in the newbie forum. That will bypass all the stuff posted in people's journals, and considerably reduce the number of posts/threads to read.

The other thing to remember, is that in all the forums there are multiple pages. Just because you don't see something on the screen right now, doesn't mean it hasn't been asked before. Flip back through a couple of previous pages. You'd be amazed at what you find. Just because the dates are old does not mean the info is stale. ;)

Hope this helps.

[Rosebud]

Well done, Suz!

And...this thread, Effective use of the Search Function (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49410) might add a little more help.

Most of us don't mind how many times we answer the same questions. The ones I won't answer, but will refer someone to their book instead are the ones that say, "What sort of food can I eat on this diet?" - indicating that the questioner has done no reading whatsoever.

DuPont, firstly, was there any particular question you had in mind?
Secondly, if you go to Newbies' Questions, there is a "sticky" there called Hot Links which contains stacks of very handy previous threads. You may find some answers there.

HTH!

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

[LC Sponge]

As a former mentor on this board, I can tell you that any comments you make about how questions are answered are taken very seriously, considered and discussed among the mentors and moderators. The ongoing quality of how this board is run is very much in the forefront of the minds of the webmaster, mentors and the moderators.

Your point has been raised before, and it has been noted that "read the book" in and unto itself is not totally helpful advice. Mentors and moderators (and members) will often give their twist, and then supplement with "read the book", and even give page numbers which is very helpful.

On the other hand, it really is difficult to help someone who has not read the book at all (doesn't matter which book we are talking about) because it's hard to do an abridged version/ Coles notes type thing on something that is so detailed. "Reading the book" has become the measuring stick that determines the level of seriousness a person (particularly someone new) has towards their new WOL, and if they prove themselves to be serious and committed (by reading the book), and not just be a one-post-wonder, or fluffy about their plan (those who want the book to be "read to them"), they will "earn" the ongoing comprehensive answers and support they need. It may sound a bit harsh, but there are A LOT of short term dieters who flip around between plans, go on and off diets almost daily. It's very disappointing as a mentor to spend a lot of time working on an answer only to have the original poster never come back, ignore advice or continue to not take responsibility for their own WOL.

It is also a fact that those who are studiously working a plan themselves are helped by helping others. They are forced to look things up in answer to questions, and to do research. This is a double whammy benefit because they are learning and teaching at the same time. Understandably "Read the Book" by itself does neither of these things.

Another thing I can say from experience, mentors (both the crowned as such, and the ones who just mentor without the official title) can get so keen about helping peole that some will do the scattergun approach to mentoring. Which is to reach out to as many people as possible in the time they have. This can sometimes translate into answers that are brief. Sometimes I think those icons that "reward" posters based on post frequency feed into that mentalilty a little tiny bit. :)

Just some thoughts....

[TeriDoodle]

Bingo, Sponge :thup:............. very well said (as usual) and nice to see you again! :D

[Lisa N]

Something else you might want to try is reading the "sticky" posts at the top of the threads. There's one right at the top of this one on "Effective use of the search function". There's also an excellent one at the top of the "Newbies questions" thread.
"Stickys" are put there because they contain answers to the most frequently asked questions and the mods/administrators/mentors all want people to be able to find them easily, so there they are....always at the top of the thread instead of buried 5 or 6 pages in.
The only time I will advise someone to "read the book" is when it's obvious that they haven't (and their profile shows they haven't) or to refer them to a specific page in the book where I located the answer to their question so they can go read it themselves.
And no...I'm not on anyone's payroll (except that of my regular full-time job). I volunteer my time here as do all the other mentors, mods and administrators. We want people to succeed in this way they've chosen and be able to find answers if anything, heaven forbid, should happen to this forum.
People post hundreds of questions here daily and usually receive quick answers to them, even if it's not always exactly what they wanted to hear.

[shutt22]

Me again. It looks like some of you didn't read the part of my post where I mentioned that I DO know how to use the search function, and that I WASN'T trying to offend anybody. In fact, I have found invaluable information on this site, from recipes to exercise tips, to just general friendship.

I do appreciate the time and dedication most people put into this forum...trust me. I still think I have a point, but my intent was not to just throw insults. Sorry if anyone took it that way.

shutt22

[agonycat]

Originally posted by shutt22
Me again. It looks like some of you didn't read the part of my post where I mentioned that I DO know how to use the search function, and that I WASN'T trying to offend anybody. In fact, I have found invaluable information on this site, from recipes to exercise tips, to just general friendship.

I do appreciate the time and dedication most people put into this forum...trust me. I still think I have a point, but my intent was not to just throw insults. Sorry if anyone took it that way.

shutt22

Actually the reference to the search function was requested by Dupont, so other members were trying to help. :)

I think you also have to realize that there are almost 16,000 registered members, 63 thousand threads, total of 567 thousand posts to run through on this forum. There are around 18 mentor/moderators total. So we really do the best we can.

To be honest I didn't see anyone taking offense at your post. I think all the answers were trying to explain why we refer people to the book while also trying to answer questions.

:wave:

[Rosebud]

Hi Shutt,

If you'll read back a few posts, you'll see that another poster, DuPont had questions about the search function.

As for not taking offence, you're making that a little difficult when you refer to a "lack of helpful responses!"

In fact, if you still think you "have a point" after the posts here explaining the reasons why we sometimes refer folk to the appropriate book, I can't help but feel you are being more than a little provocative.

:rose:Rosebud:rose:

[shutt22]

I give up. I can't even say I'm sorry without getting rammed for it. From now on, I'll stick to just reading the threads, instead of originating them.

[DuPont]

Thanks for explaining the search, still haven't found the "sticky" on effective use of the search function, but I have NOW seen other stickies that will be helpful to me.

I'm still confused about the whole fiber thing.

[Karen]

If you go back to rosebuds post and click the link, it will take you to the thread she is talking about.

Some posts are spotted with links that become evident when you move your cursor over them. Otherwise, they just look like words have been underlined.

I'll post some more links in your journal on fiber.

Karen

[DuPont]

thanks Karen

[suze_c]

shut22, I don't think that people were dissing you by trying to help you, in replies to your posts. After all, you were the one who threw out the little jab about ppl here being on the Atkin's payroll.
If you look about, as you say that you have, Atkins is NOT the only LC way of eating here... and there are many talented and well read individuals on each LC way of eating, who have the knowledge or can direct one to the way of an answer.
I would rather be directed to an answer, that is answered in full, perhaps that post was "more on my wavelength" than how another person could answer it,& that person sees that in the way I write/reply/post.
The thing is, a good way of learning is to ask questions, to put in your replies, after all, it is said, that the only stupid question is one not asked. Rather than taking a defensive stance, and thinking that everyone is against you, share the knowledge about what you have learned on your journey. You have several posts where you shared about foods that you found, that may be helpful to ppl who are looking for LC foods.
Start up a journal,post whatever you feel in it...vent in there,share in there, be sad,glad,mad in there... there's too many lurkers in the world the way it is, don't add to their number :p

[Lisa N]

Shutt...

I don't think anyone here intended to slam you, ram you or dis you in general and I'm sorry if you feel that way.
I will say, though, that I still feel that there are instances where telling someone to read the book for their chosen plan (or even to choose a plan and then read the book) is still an entirely appropriate response and I don't think I've ever read a post where all the reply said was "read the book".
The moderators, administrators and mentors here are giving responses based on having read the books for at least one plan, usually several, plus months and in some cases, years of experience. Many have done some extensive research on the web as well. BUT....nothing can replace the comprehensive and often detailed information found in the books put out by the authors of each plan. The two work together. You read the books and if you still don't understand something, you ask people here what their take on it is.
There are a lot of people who wander through here never having read word one from any low carb book and just winging it on what they've heard from the friend of a friend and those are the ones who are usually advised to pick a plan and read the book. Just winging this without any kind of working knowledge of what you are doing and why could result in some serious health consequences and those are usually the ones you hear about when they have a problem and claim that "low carb" wrecked their health when, in fact, they weren't doing any sort of low carb plan as it was meant to be done. As a general rule, the more you know, the better you'll do, especially if this is going to be a lifetime plan. Looking for answers will often answer questions that you haven't even though of asking yet.
Please feel free to post questions if you have them. Flaming and put-downs are not allowed here and there's nothing wrong with healthy, friendly debating.

[tofi]

One other reason to try to be sure that newbies are reading the book of their chosen plan is this: we are not doctors and are NOT trying to give medical advice. Each of the books on the various eating plans has been written and researched by doctors and they have put a lot of work into explaining what to do and why it works and also into stating who should not adopt the particular eating plan. Low carbing is NOT for everyone because of some medical conditions and each person has the responsibility to find that out by reading the book completely.

It's not that we don't want to answer questions and be supportive. It's not that most questions have already been answered a dozen times a month. It is that adopting a new way of eating is an individual's personal decision and we want to help ensure that they are making an informed decision by reading the book of their chosen plan.

Quite honestly, it would take most people less time to just read the book than to post all the questions as they come up and wait for the answers.

It is an oft-repeated truth that low-carbing is not a quick weight loss diet. It is a change in one's way of eating that will last for the rest of one's life. The quick answer is not the most helpful one, even if 'read the book' doesn't seem helpful. It is never given flippantly.

:wave:

[Kristine]

...what everyone else said.

It is vital that people do some reading.

And y'know what? I see nothing wrong with encouraging people to buy books, and no, I'm not on any publisher's payroll. ;) Recording artists deserve compensation for your enjoyment of their music, right? Isn't it wrong to steal music using Napster or another P2P? So don't authors also deserve compenstion for your use of their information? If the mods/mentors of this board were telling everyone exactly how to follow their respective LC plans and said, "don't bother buying the book, we have all the info here," it would be wrong, IMHO.

Just a slightly different perspective. :idea:

[PJ in Miam]

I've run and moderated a variety of listservers and bbs's for nearly 10 years now, and the interesting thing is that this topic applies to every subject you can imagine.

It doesn't matter what the subject is. There can be a small number of books by experts that outline everything you could want to know about a subject, but people will still not feel like reading the books, and would rather get everything from someone in an email or something.

Or bizarrely, they read a books, remember utterly nothing about it, and so what was the point.

Or worse, they read the book, but decide the author, a world expert, is really expecting too much of them by expecting some degree of dedication -- surely they can become an expert at something just by talking about it 10 minutes a night online?

I think it's almost a side-effect of our culture becoming used to the 20-second soundbytes and 45-minutes of classroom attention span.

I have places where I've put info online, headed by two sentences in bold red, and then another notice before the materials are reached, and then someone gripes and when I point out the multiple advisories they HAD to see that had the information they needed, I have actually gotten responses like, "Yeah, but I'm an American, I don't bother reading instructions." (?! Like what am I?!)

So, it isn't limited to low-carb discussion... it's just discussion, period. Human nature, or something.

PJ

[SlimShAdY]

Quite often newbies (and others) ask questions which may have been asked before, or which are answered in the Atkins book. A common response from some members is simply "Read the book yourself"

I've only told people to read the book when they ask a general simple question that makes it SO obvious they don't have a clue. (as in their first post being "how many carbs can you have on induction??") :rolleyes:

[committed]

I am grateful that this forum exists. As in all areas of my life, I do not agree with everything I hear(read) and I don't always post perfect posts and I don't always read perfect posts.

And I have learned so much.

Three cheers for all the moderators and mentors who take the time to help when they can.

It might be helpful to remember that communicating with strangers via email is a new form of communication for human beings. We don't have visual cues like body language, we can't get a sense of the person's energy. . . and many of us (this is SO SO true for me) are not fully aware of the impact of our words, esp. words in print.

Let's give all of ourselves a break, be happy we have found LC WOL and thanks for all who contribute in any way.

[suze_c]

Let's give all of ourselves a break, be happy we have found LC WOL and thanks for all who contribute in any way. :agree: Yes, you make an excellent point here... not everything said is a personal attack either~ when ppl suggest to :read: the book, it is merely the best starting point as well~

[niksauntie]

Committed-Well put!!!
When I read your words I completely connected. This is basically what I was trying to say 2 pages ago but I have a big problem writing what I am thinking. Thanks for your post!!!! And once again-- Three Cheers for the men and women who make this forum the great place it is!!!!!!!!!!!

[JerseyDon]

I think that sometimes people get lazy and they don't want to take the time to read whatever book it is that they've chosen. They'd prefer to just come here and get a quick fix for a problem that has taken dozens of years to get to the point where they want to make a change.

That won't cut it. If you do any of these plans half-assed you'll never succeed.

It's one thing to read the book, then ask questions. But to just expect someone here to boil down a whole book to one message board posting is ridiculous.

[suze_c]

It's one thing to read the book, then ask questions. But to just expect someone here to boil down a whole book to one message board posting is ridiculous
Well stated JerseyDon, I think that too many ppl come here, expect to get all the answers here without doing ANY reading in the book, and expect to see the results right away. They don't get as much out of this way of eating for one thing, and then there is also the factors that sometimes certain conditions make LC'ing not the best choice!
They think that they are taking a shortcut. We see "I don't have the $$ to get the book",well, check it out from a library, borrow a copy... whatever it takes. In techy-land, most times when ppl have troubles, the first suggestion is RTFM... :p It don't just apply to LC'ing, and after all, the only person they are really hurting, is themself!

[JerseyDon]

I also think if you have the money to have a computer and an internet connection you can afford a book for $10-$20.

[Hlinda0774]

this site is like one big commercial. I was looking more for a support group. people to talk to.

[Lisa N]

Hlinda...

I know this site is big and that can be a bit overwhelming, but there really is great support to be found here. Have a look at some of the other forums, like the Atkins or General Low Carb forums; lots of great information and people are usually quite quick to respond to any question that you might have or point you in the right direction to find your answer. I wish you success with your low carb endeavors! :)

[Talon]

LOL, I laugh because I thought similiar things at first. The boards layout was different than I was used to seeing. I aksed the questions int he technical forum about the parts that confused me, and I was very quickly answered by the lovely mentors and admins on this board.

If I had done my initial thing and not come back when it confused me - I would have missed out on meeting so many wonderfull board members, and so many wonderful peices of information that these members have or can find out.

Visit the journals if you still don't think this is about having someone to talk to.

[bob]

My God, I've found an amazing amount of support here in just a few days. I read the Atkins book in April and referred back to it many times over a few months when I first started this WOE. I guess being a guy I never really thought I needed the support of others to help accomplish what I've set out to do (losing weight or anything else), but I've gradually gotten back to some unhealthy eating habits. I know I need to refocus now and I'm ready for it. I also now realize, since finding this great group, that the support and help from others is gonna make it easier for me. There are lots of good people here who are eager to help each other. What can be wrong with that? I certainly don't know it all, but now I know where to come for answers to what I don't understand in something I've read, or when need some encouragement to stay on track. I give this entire site and the active people here a whole lotta :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup: :thup:

[freydis]

Originally posted by JerseyDon
I also think if you have the money to have a computer and an internet connection you can afford a book for $10-$20.

And, if they can't afford the book, almost ALL of that information (and more) is contained within the Atkins website, which is easily found if you search on the words 'Atkins diet.' So, no book is not an excuse, either.

[Avengeance]

Well.. let me add my .02.

I did a fair amount of reading online.. some research.. talked to a few people that had success with Atkins... etc. It took me about 2-3 weeks before I really decided to try it. I dont like to do something I dont know much about. Now.. Im not the type of person to curl up into a book and read a few hundred pages if I can get a basic outline of a diet and go from there. I didnt read one page in a book and still lost 11-12lbs in the first 3 weeks of induction... thats just off of online reasearch. Printed out the "allowed list" and the basic outline of induction... followed it to the tee... and it worked obviously.

When I joined this site.. a few days ago.. I had a few basic questions. Valid ones too. Some of you read my "Cheese and Induction" thread. Basically I researched on cheeses and found that some cheeses have less then 1g of carbs, which I was aware of.. but was under the assumption that some cheeses have 0 as well. All I asked was "why only 3-4 oz of cheese if we count the carbs?" I had one response, the first one, which basically let me know that there were hidden carbs in all cheeses... which just about answered my Q. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that carbs add up even if their fractions of carbs. So that still left me with "Why only 3-4oz if we count them?"

The second post was only helpfull in the way that it told me how important the book was. Which was fine but at the same time that person went ahead and told me something I already knew.. saying "As you will find when you read the book, Dr A limits cheese to 3 to 4 oz during Induction. " I didnt need to know that, honestly. I just was wondering WHY only 3-4 oz IF you count the carbs. Is there something in cheese besides the carbs thats makes it not ok to eat more then 3-4 oz daily? Thats what I was getting at.

Now.. after reading the responses from some it seems to me that the same question was rattling around in other peoples heads too. I recall someone saying that it didnt specify why in the book. Which is the same thing I found when I was researching online for that answer.

What if I had read the book? Would I have been treated differently in that post? The person who stressed the book said they found my question "strange" and for some reason that person was basically telling me that I was trying to do the LC diet without doing any reading which in fact I had. What I found interesting is while I thought I screwed up by not reading I found that other people had the same Qs, people that had read the book. Is it cause Im a newbie? Is this not a support forum? I suggest the regs here answer questions... I mean in this thread someone said "they read the book but obviously got nothing out of it"... so those people dont deserve help or answers from those that may have picked up what they didnt?

All Im saying is.. this is a support forum.. if someone hasnt read the book and has question then sure.. preach to them about reading the book BUT answer their Qs if they have them!

Im not angry at the person that came back at me like that.. but a little more friendly advice would be great in the future.

BTW.. I bought the book.

[Teuthis]

"Read the book!" is the obvious answer to so many questions. So many people are trying to do Aktins without reading the book. It won't work. There are critical elements that one must understand in order to succeed; short term and long term. I think "Read the book" is the best advice to give. Once someone has read the book, then the more experienced memebers can help them.

[Christy P]

Hi Avengeance,

Hey, I understand what you mean. You just have to keep asking in different ways until you get your answer. OR maybe no one has it for you.. :confused:

There are always going to be people that feel more comfortable giving others lectures instead of advice. I've already found that here, but I just ignore it and take all the other WONDERFUL advice that I'm given. :D

Just ignore those posts and move on to the next. Maybe you can call Atkins and ask them? I saw a phone number somewhere but can't find it right now....

Good luck, and that is a very interesting question to me too.. I'll keep checking back here to see if the mystery gets solved!!

:roll:

[amieK]

Avengeance -

I don't purport to know the answer to your question:

"why only 3-4 oz of cheese if we count the carbs?"

But just this morning, I read the following in Michel Montignac's book, Eat Yourself Slim:

Some authors have said that milk proteins contain growing factors necessary to fatten up small veal, but also active in humans. That explains why eating too much of a dairy product can hinder weight loss. pg 89

Some people have found they broke their stalls when they cut back on the dairy. Maybe there is something to the theory about growth factors.

Just a thought,
amieK
:wave: