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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Oct-23-15, 15:22
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Default Bacon, ham and sausages 'as big a cancer threat as smoking', WHO to warn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...HO-to-warn.html
Quote:
The World Health Organisation (WHO) will publish a report on Monday on the dangers of eating processed meats.

It is expected to list processed meat as a cancer-causing substance, while fresh red meat is also expected to be regarded as bad for health, the Daily Mail said.

The classifications, by the WHO's International Agency for Research on Cancer, are believed to regard processed meat as "carcinogenic to humans", the highest of five possible rankings, shared with alcohol, asbestos, arsenic and cigarettes.

The World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF) has warned for several years that there is "strong evidence" that consuming a lot of red meat can cause bowel cancer.

It also says there is "strong evidence" that processed meats - even in smaller quantities - increase cancer risk.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Oct-23-15, 16:52
Zei Zei is offline
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Quote:
Foods like hamburgers, minced beef, pork chops and roast lamb are also regarded as red meat.

How about that big refined carb bun on that hamburger in the photo, huh? People who believe meat is bad but eat it anyway probably don't have the best diets or health behaviors in general, no surprise there might be a statistical association there with cancer or other disease. There sure are a lot of really weird names of chemicals that go into some processed meats that I have no idea what the health consequences of are and probably no one else really does either. But the meat itself I think is healthy. While not mentioned in the article there's still a lot of prejudice against meat due to its saturated fat content among those still fearing saturated fat.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Oct-23-15, 17:48
M Levac M Levac is offline
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Quote:
"strong evidence" that consuming a lot of red meat can cause bowel cancer.

It also says there is "strong evidence" that processed meats - even in smaller quantities - increase cancer risk.

No, there is absolutely no strong evidence of that kind. In fact, the only evidence like this is the weakest type of evidence - observational, "cohorts", epidemiological, food questionnaires. The very strongest kind of evidence - experimental, long-term, absence of confounding factors, horde of observers for only 2 subjects therefore extensive and multiple observations of the same events - actually shows not a single iota of hint of indication of suggestion of any detrimental effect on health in humans.

Besides the fact that the totality of the evidence used to implicate meat is bogus, we cannot ignore the fact that the bulk of meat eaten today isn't eaten on its own, it's eaten with bread and sugar and potatoes and indeed most of the processed meat that exist on this planet contains sugar, wheat and corn.

The WHO should instead warn that cancer thrives on excess glucose and insulin, both proven experimentally over and over and over.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Oct-24-15, 03:13
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Demi Demi is offline
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Quote:
Experts attack claims that bacon is 'as big a cancer threat as smoking'

Following reports that the WHO is expected to publish a report listing processed meat as a cancer-causing substance, experts have criticised suggestions that bacon and sausages could be as dangerous as smoking



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journali...as-smoking.html
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Oct-24-15, 13:30
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Marieshops Marieshops is offline
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While in agreement with the majority here that WHO and much of their findings is at the least exaggerated if not false, there is a grain of truth to part of this story.

Many processed meats do contain nitrates along with other fillers that aren't the best for one. In DANDR, Atkins mentions being careful of processed meats and to "try to avoid meat and fish products cured with nitrates, which are known carcinogens". Luckily, it is getting easier to find nitrate free products, though the cost is still much higher.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 06:04
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Announcement has just hit the wires. First short article by BBC:
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34615621

Quote:

Processed meats - such as bacon, sausages and ham - do cause cancer, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

Its report said 50g of processed meat a day - less than two slices of bacon - increased the chance of developing colorectal cancer by 18%.
Meanwhile, it said red meats were "probably carcinogenic" but there was limited evidence.
The WHO did stress that meat also had health benefits.
Processed meat is meat that has been modified to increase its shelf-life or alter its taste - such as by smoking, curing or adding salt or preservatives.
It is these additions which could be increasing the risk of cancer. High temperature cooking, such as on a barbeque, can also create carcinogenic chemicals.
How bad?
The WHO has come to the conclusion on the advice of its International Agency for Research on Cancer, which assesses the best available scientific evidence.
It has now placed processed meat in the same category as plutonium, but also alcohol as they definitely do cause cancer.
However, that is not an indication of how much cancer they cause. It does not mean eating a bacon sandwich is as bad as smoking.
"For an individual, the risk of developing colorectal (bowel) cancer because of their consumption of processed meat remains small, but this risk increases with the amount of meat consumed," Dr Kurt Straif from the WHO said.


Estimates suggest 34,000 deaths from cancer every year could be down to diets high in processed meat.
That is in contrast to one million deaths from cancer caused by smoking and 600,000 attributed to alcohol each year.
Red meat does have nutritional value too and is a major source of iron, zinc and vitamin B12.
However, the WHO said there was limited evidence that 100g of red meat a day increased the risk of cancer by 18%.
The WHO said its findings were important for helping countries give balanced dietary advice.
Little harm
Prof Tim Key, from the Cancer Research UK and the University of Oxford, said: "This decision doesn't mean you need to stop eating any red and processed meat, but if you eat lots of it you may want to think about cutting down.
"Eating a bacon bap every once in a while isn't going to do much harm - having a healthy diet is all about moderation."
The industry body the Meat Advisory Panel said "no one food gives you cancer" and said some studies showed bowel cancer rates were similar in both vegetarians and meat-eaters.


So where are the articles about alcohol?

"Estimates suggest 34,000 deaths from cancer every year could be down to diets high in processed meat.
That is in contrast to one million deaths from cancer caused by smoking and 600,000 attributed to alcohol each year'"

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Oct-26-15 at 06:18.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 07:25
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khrussva khrussva is offline
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Good Morning America reported this WHO announcement this morning... and their expert doctor recommended that we cut back on red and processed meat in favor of chicken and fish. Maybe I can pick up a few deals on great beef steak in the coming weeks should the masses heed his advice.

What are people to think, really? One day "they" say something is good for us, the next day "they" say it is bad for us... and all of this expert advice is based on very shaky data. I love fish & chicken... but I love read meat, too. I think I'll take my chances.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 07:56
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Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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As far as nitrates are concerned, celery contains quite a bit of it.

They are now preserving meat with celery salts (which are full of the stuff) and we are warned not to eat it by the same people who tell us to eat celery.

I also read that if you take vitamin C with your nitrates, they are rendered harmless.

I don't know if any of that is true.

Bob
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 08:07
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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I consider this warning idiocy and not worth giving any attention to.

Jean
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 08:27
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khrussva
Good Morning America reported this WHO announcement this morning... and their expert doctor recommended that we cut back on red and processed meat in favor of chicken and fish. Maybe I can pick up a few deals on great beef steak in the coming weeks should the masses heed his advice.

What are people to think, really? One day "they" say something is good for us, the next day "they" say it is bad for us... and all of this expert advice is based on very shaky data. I love fish & chicken... but I love read meat, too. I think I'll take my chances.

And this is a major part of the problem here, when "reports" readily come out regarding half-baked claims, they confuse the public to the point where I hear many exclaim, "Ah, hell, what do they know. I'll eat what I like." People are totally confused!
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 09:15
kirkor kirkor is offline
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WHO is all about rewilding and the vegetarian agenda.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 09:21
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ojoj ojoj is offline
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journali...as-smoking.html

What bothers me with this - well it all does, but the claim that red meat/processed meat (which one and which bit??)is as bad as smoking. So is this how redmeat/processed meat will be treated from now on???? Does this mean that they'll be a government health warning on the packaging and that we mustnt allow children under 18 to buy it, or be seen eating it?? and sold behind a screen?? Wouldnt this cause some major problems in Madonalds, Burger king and the like????

Jo xxx
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 09:51
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Quote:
Processed meat is meat that has been modified to increase its shelf-life or alter its taste - such as by smoking, curing or adding salt or preservatives.


Also by adding sugar - why don't they mention that? Along with the bread & processed cheese. Which is why I don't eat lunchmeat & eat only a low-carb brand of frankfurters - more expensive, but they taste a lot better than the cheap high-carb hot dogs.

Technically, all food is processed: it's picked/butchered, washed, refrigerated, cooked, and so on.

I saw a headline for this article that said, "Processed meats cause cancer." Really? 100% of the time? If that were true, we'd ALL have cancer.

As GRB said, "Ah, hell, what do they know. I'll eat what I like." People are totally confused!
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 09:59
comanchesu comanchesu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig


I just read an article on this on the BBC website and the WHO did NOT say processed meat was as big a cancer risk as smoking. Cancer risk from smoking increased 19% and increased cancer risk from processed meat was 3%. Article goes on to say that the risk comes from the chemicals used to process the meat and this coincides with our feelings of 'frankenfoods'.
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Oct-26-15, 11:23
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Zoe Harcombe had her response ready.

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2015/10/...on-meat-cancer/

Quote:
Today, 26th October 2015, the World Health Organisation declared the consumption of red meat as “probably carcinogenic to humans, based on limited evidence that the consumption of red meat causes cancer in humans” and declared processed meat as “carcinogenic to humans, based on sufficient evidence in humans that the consumption of processed meat causes colorectal cancer.” The red meat association was observed mainly for colorectal cancer.

“The experts concluded that each 50 gram portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by 18%.”

From the headline “carcinogenicity of consumption of red and processed meat”, we’re already down to colorectal (bowel) cancer and “probably”.

The press release is here. The Lancet article is here or here (it may not be on open view for long).

So do we need to stop eating red meat and/or processed meat? Let’s dissect the headline more accurately:

1) Where this data comes from

The gold standard of evidence is a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials – pooling together studies where an intervention was matched against a control group to see what impact A had on B. As far as I am aware, no intervention studies have ever been done testing the impact of 50 grams of processed meat per day as an isolated intervention, or any amount of processed or red meat as a sole intervention for that matter.

We are thus looking at observational studies. This is where a large group of people (e.g. the Nurses’ Health Study or the Health Professionals Follow-up Study) are asked loads of questions and given health tests (blood pressure, weight, height, cholesterol ho ho etc) at the start of the study. This is called the baseline. These people are then followed for years to see what conditions they go on to develop.

Researchers then look at the data to try to see patterns. No pattern = no journal article, so look hard! They may observe a pattern between people who consume processed meat and people who go on to develop bowel cancer. This is then reported in a journal article and it is all such articles that have been reviewed by the World Health Organisation.

The first point to make, therefore, is that all of this is based on notoriously unreliable dietary questionnaires. Many ask what you ate yesterday or over the past 7 days. Here’s the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer questionnaire, one of the best possible questionnaires, as it asks for food intake over the past year. How accurate do you think yours would be?

2) One’s diet vs. one food

By singling out red meat/processed meat in this way, the whole diet and lifestyle of a person is not taken into account. There is a world of difference between the health of a burger/hot-dog/ketchup/white bun/fizzy drink guzzling couch potato and a grass-fed-steak eating/CrossFit/six-pack Paleo specimen.

As I showed in this blog, the baseline for the processed meat eaters showed that they were far less active, had a higher BMI, were THREE TIMES more likely to smoke and almost TWICE as likely to have diabetes. This makes processed meat a MARKER of an unhealthy person, not a MAKER of an unhealthy person.

Even if all the smoking/exercise/other conditions baseline factors are adjusted for, there is no possibility of adjusting for all the dietary factors that make up the couch potato vs. the Paleo buff. The whole diet is not adjusted for when the one line (meat) is targeted.

3) Real food vs. processed food

I’m a real foodie. I pretty much spend my life writing and talking about real food and the nutrition it contains. I am the first to say “Do eat real food; don’t eat processed food” and I include processed meat as processed food – something to avoid. However, this WHO report describes processed meat as “meat that has been transformed through salting, curing, fermentation, smoking or other processes to enhance flavour or improve preservation.”

As Peter Cleave, Surgeon Captain, (1906-1983) said: “For a modern disease to be related to an old fashioned food is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard in my life.” To think that real meat, or meat preserved in natural ways, is bad for us is ludicrous. 1) You’d have to explain how we survived the past 3.5 million years, since Australopithecus Lucy first walked upright; especially how we survived the ice age(s). 2) You’d have to explain why all the nutrients we need to live (essential fats, complete protein, vitamins and minerals) are found in meat if it were trying to kill us at the same time.

Meat needed to be naturally preserved with salting, curing, drying, smoking etc or we would have needed to binge on the kill and risk dying of starvation before the next kill. The WHO report should have separated traditional ways of preserving meat from modern manufactured processing (where sugars and chemicals are added – just read the label). Similarly – if there is any harm in red meat, it will be because manufacturers have got involved and fed the poor animals grains, which they cannot digest and then pumped them with drugs to medicate the resulting illness. (Chris Kresser presents the view on nitrates here, if you’re interested).

This should be a call to action to get back to your butcher, know him/her by name, know where your meat comes from, know how s/he prepares bacon & hand-made sausages and enjoy the health benefits of real food while supporting the grafters who provide it.

4) Association vs. causation

Even allowing for the weakness of observational studies, and the unreliability of dietary questionnaires, and the notion that food consumption can be a marker not a maker of health, and the whole dietary intake that has not been taken into account and the ignorance of the chasm between real and processed food, this is still association, not causation.

I always wish that these huge and expensive studies would ask what colour socks the participant is wearing. I bet I could find an association between red sock wearing and one type of cancer if I looked hard enough. Would the headline be red socks cause cancer?!

5) Relative vs. absolute risk

The press release headlines with “each 50 gram portion of processed meat eaten daily increases the risk of colorectal cancer by 18%.” Crikey. 18%! Put that bacon sarnie down now (see – don’t blame the bacon for what the white bread & ketchup did!) This, however, is the game that all of these observational study research press releases play and it’s disgraceful scare-mongering.

Shall we look at the absolute risk?

Cancer Research UK has terrific statistics on all types of cancer. I’ve just looked at the UK. They do have data for other countries if you want to do your own rummage. The incident rate for all people in the UK, age-standardised (you pretty much won’t see bowel cancer before the age of 50 – look at the age data), in 2011 was 47 per 100,000 people.

47 per 100,000 people.

You would need to know 2,128 people, including enough older people, to know 1 person who developed bowel cancer in the UK in 2011.

Now – let’s do that relative vs. absolute risk thing.

Assuming that everything the WHO did had been perfect and that there really was an 18% relative difference between those having 50g of processed meat a day and those not (and assuming that nothing else was impacting this), the absolute risk would be 51 people per 100,000 vs. 43 people per 100,000.

Now where’s the bacon and egg before my CrossFit session?!

The likely harm of this report:

The Lancet article does at least have the decency to mention the nutritional value of red meat: “Red meat contains high biological value proteins and important micronutrients such as B vitamins, iron (both free iron and haem iron), and zinc.” That’s still a bit of an understatement. Try both essential fats; complete protein; and the vitamins and minerals needed for life and health.

What will be the consequences of this report scaring people away from real meat? It takes approximately 250g of sirloin steak to get the daily 10mg of zinc; over a kilo of the same steak to get the recommended daily iron requirement – and in the right form for the body. How about over 20 eggs to get the same iron intake? Still in a useful form to the body. Or 4.5 kilos of brown rice to get iron in the wrong form for the body?

What do I take from this report? There is a heck of a lot of bad science coming out the World Health Organisation, an organisation that should know better, but then there have previous cases of not knowing better.

Nothing has changed from my fundamental belief that human beings should eat real food (especially grass-fed, naturally reared meat and naturally preserved meat). Avoid processed food, including meat processed by fake food companies. And take every observational study that doesn’t know these five points above with a hefty pinch of salt.
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