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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Apr-15-09, 13:03
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
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Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
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Location: Québec, Canada
Default Obesity may well include a microbial component...

Quote:
Recently, for example, evidence has surfaced that obesity may well include a microbial component. Jeffrey Gordon's lab at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis published findings that lean and obese twins — whether identical or fraternal — harbor strikingly different bacterial communities that are not just helping to process food directly; they actually influence whether that energy is ultimately stored as fat in the body.
source

Patrick
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Apr-15-09, 14:55
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
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Good old Slashdot. For me, the story is almost spiritual - if our "selves" are actually colonies of many organisms, then much of our "selves" live on even after the brain dies.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Apr-15-09, 15:05
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
Default

Quote:
The researchers found that "obese bacteria" might lead to more weight gain. The bacteria have genes that make them better at harvesting calories from food.
Quote:
It will take much more work to learn whether changing a person's existing gut bacteria can make them lose or gain weight.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/...storyId=6654607
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Apr-16-09, 19:15
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teaser teaser is offline
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Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
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Location: Ontario
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I read a while back that polyunsaturated oils are toxic to rumen bacteria, and that they saturate them because of this. Wonder how our gut bacteria feel about fish oil?
I guess capmikee is just more spiritual than me. I'm trying to figure out whether I should go to war against the little boogers.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 09:28
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I'm trying to figure out whether I should go to war against the little boogers.

Too much of the wrong ones makes you sick. But if you killed them all, I'm pretty sure you would die too. Fortunately that's basically impossible.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 09:35
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
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Default

Another bit of old news that gets recycled every 6 months or so.

These seem to be the most resilient at reappearing:
Obesity may be caused by a virus.
Obesity may be caused by gut bacteria.

Quote:
Too much of the wrong ones makes you sick. But if you killed them all, I'm pretty sure you would die too. Fortunately that's basically impossible.
Actually probably not. They raise mice without any gut bacteria at all, keep them in sterile environments. I don't know how healthy they are, but they tend to be something like 30% skinnier than mice with bacteria.

I wonder if probiotics are wasted on low carbers, those guys down there thrive on undigested carbs and fiber.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 09:37
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
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Default

Well it was news to me
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 10:24
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capmikee capmikee is offline
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Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
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Progress: 97%
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Actually probably not. They raise mice without any gut bacteria at all, keep them in sterile environments. I don't know how healthy they are, but they tend to be something like 30% skinnier than mice with bacteria.

I saw that mentioned in the article, but I didn't understand it. How the heck do they get sterile mice?

Peter from Hyperlipid had an interesting article recently, with a surprising perspective on gut bacteria:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot....-endotoxin.html

Quote:
Then came a fascinating random paper through my wife's journal club meetings, which are a routine part of her PhD. It's about superinfection with resistant bacteria when broad spectrum antibiotics are used. This is a routine problem for anyone in medicine, especially patients. The concept is very simple, you kill off the susceptible commensal bacteria in the gut and resistant pathogens have no competition, so they have a field day and superinfection causes severe problems for the unlucky patient.

Simple, straightforward and wrong.

It turns out that the immune system, that is the innate immune system (of course), continuously monitors the contents of the gut by looking at endotoxin production. Lots of bacteria mean lots of endotoxin and an active, on-guard innate immune system. Kill off 99% of your gut bacteria and exdotoxin production drops. The innate immune system goes on vacation and clostridium difficile gets in and wipes out your granny.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 15:46
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TheCaveman TheCaveman is offline
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Plan: Angry Paleo
Stats: 375/205/180 Male 6'3"
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Location: Sacramento, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
For me, the story is almost spiritual


Heh, I know. The idea that another living creature has so much influence over my brain chemistry, wild. Coevolutionary theory poses that since the bacteria were here long before everything else was, that bacteria influences the evolution of the vehicles they travel in. If this is true, then imagine yourself as an organic, singing, dancing container designed to protect E. coli and Streptococcus.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 16:11
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
I saw that mentioned in the article, but I didn't understand it. How the heck do they get sterile mice?

Well, I suspect their parents have to be sterile mice too... which leads to a chicken and egg kind of thing.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 16:16
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
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Progress: 72%
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Default

I had that moment of... omg, who or what is in control of me really? When I read about toxoplasmosis and rats. Basically the pathogen disables the rat's fear of cats, the rat gets eaten, the pathogen ends up in the cat, which I guess is it's preferred host.

Then again, according to Michael Pollan, corn is probably controlling our destiny in ways beyond or ken.
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 16:24
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Valtor Valtor is offline
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Posts: 2,036
 
Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
Default

Yeah ! That's why we have an obesity epidemic. The grains wants to multiply, so they got humans to start agriculture. And the more grains we grow, the more grains we eat, and those carbs makes us hungrier for more grains. So we grow more! And now look where we're at.

Patrick
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 16:29
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melibsmile melibsmile is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 272.5/174.4/165 Female 5'4
BF:44?/32.6/20
Progress: 91%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I had that moment of... omg, who or what is in control of me really? When I read about toxoplasmosis and rats. Basically the pathogen disables the rat's fear of cats, the rat gets eaten, the pathogen ends up in the cat, which I guess is it's preferred host.


This sounds like the parasite that infects ants. I think the eggs are deposited in the ant and then slowly grow inside it, making it appear insane, until they break out of the ant, killing it in the process.

Lifecycle of zombie ant parasite

Fungus in an ant's brain

These are so trippy to me. Who needs drugs when nature is so crazy all on its own.

--Melissa
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 17:15
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alisbabe alisbabe is offline
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Plan: high fat paleo
Stats: 238/215/165 Female 5foot 7inches
BF:yes
Progress: 32%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I had that moment of... omg, who or what is in control of me really? When I read about toxoplasmosis and rats. Basically the pathogen disables the rat's fear of cats, the rat gets eaten, the pathogen ends up in the cat, which I guess is it's preferred host.



Not it's only preferred host - basically many parasites have a 2-phase life cycle with the forms from two phases having different hosts.

e.g. malaria http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/biology/life_cycle.htm (humans to mosquitos to humans)
Bilharzia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis#Life_cycle (humans to water snails to humans)

Aphids do a similar thing too, swapping between different host plants at different stages in their complex life cycle.

Oh and toxoplasmosis doesn't just affect the behaviour of infected rats - it appears to change human behaviour too and might even affect mental health.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxopl...avioral_changes
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, Apr-17-09, 19:35
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

I've read about toxoplasmosis before. Crazy stuff! I've heard that in countries where people eat a lot of rare or raw meat, a large percentage of the population has latent toxoplasmosis. Occasionally I'll read about how well human physiology is adapted to parasites; recently there was an article suggesting that people with pig roundworms have a lower incidence of asthma.
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