Kwasniewski Informational Thread : General Low-Carb Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

#1 ^

Sun, Apr-12-09, 10:19

awriter

Registered Member

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Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
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Kwasniewski Informational Thread

This Post is for information only. There is a lot of information here. I hope you will find it useful. ~ Lisa

Who is Dr. Jan Kwasniewski and his Optimal Diet and why did we start a thread about it?

Most of us on this forum know that we become obese because by eating a lot of carbs with or without high fat, we become insulin resistant. When we become insulin resistant we develop a metabolic fat accumulation syndrome that makes us hungry all the time, fatigued, and very fat.

If we're lucky, we discover the LC WOE, and if we follow it faithfully, we lose weight. For some of us, a lot of weight. Some of us (if this forum is any indication, mostly men) reach our goals. Some of us (mostly women it seems) stall somewhere between 20-30 pounds away from that.

So we try harder. Some of us lower our carbs even further, sometimes to zero. Doesn't seem to work. Then we drop the 'high calorie' foods like nuts and cheese. Doesn't seem to work. Then we read posts here about how, when we get close to goal, calories (that we never counted before) now seem to matter. And we start to believe this, even though we began our LC WOE because we read enough of the science (in Taubes and in Groves, for instance) to know that this is absolutely, positively untrue. It was untrue when we lost 75 pounds without counting calories, and it's just as untrue even though we still need to lose another 25. But what else could it be? We're being completely strict with carb counting, or not eating any at all. It's got to the be calories.

So we decide to cut down. And what's the first thing we try to eliminate? Fat. After all, it's not only 9 calories per gram compared to 4 calories per gram for carbs and protein -- we've had 'fat is bad' drummed into us for so long it's always there in the back of our minds, like a little voice we can never completely silence.

We cut out the nuts, the cheese, the cream, the bacon, etc. etc. etc. And yet we STILL don't lose scale weight. Some of us even gain a bit back.

In despair, we go the other way - we read the 'high fat' posts and we start adding a lot more fat to our diets, while keeping our carbs low. Result? Some of us gain even MORE weight. We go on hunts for supplements, blood tests - anything that can explain this inability to move the scale.

The one thing we hardly ever think about though, or seriously change, is the third nutrient in our equations - protein. After all, we began our LC WOE by eating as much protein as we want. Many of us were eating so much fat and carbs prior to starting that we may well have been protein deficient. But over the years it's taken us to lose a lot of weight, we're protein-deficient no longer. And we weigh a lot less, so our protein needs are a lot less. What Dr. Kwasniewski (and Barry Groves) believes, and what this article shows, is that for some of us, our protein needs are even lower and our fat -- and yes, our calorie needs -- are even higher.

Eat MORE calories to break a stall? How counter-intuitive is that? But again, if you study how the metabolism actually works, that makes perfect sense. If you combine that knowledge with the new information in that study, it becomes even clearer. For some insulin resistant individuals with this particular metabolic issue, the only recourse is to up our fat (and calories) while severely lowering protein intake. Carb intake can never go back to where it was pre-LC, but it no longer needs to be at rock bottom either. I've actually doubled my daily carb intake in the last month (from 20 NC to 40 NC) and still lost weight.

Let me say that again: by following Kwasniewski's formula, I've broken a 2-year scale weight stall! And I've done it by upping my caloric intake from an average 1300-1500 to an average 1700-1900.

Can some LC'ers eat all the protein they want every day and still lose weight? Yes. As we know, there are some people in our lives who can eat a zillion carbs daily and remain slim and healthy. But we're not those people, which is why we're here. New research now indicates that just as some people can eat all the carbs they want, and some people can eat all the protein they want -- there are some people for whom consuming a lot of protein while also eating a lot of fat can increase, not decrease, insulin resistance. Which goes a long way toward explaining why some of us successfully lose weight on LC and then not one pound more despite very vigilant efforts.

For more information:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...90407130905.htm

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=394155

http://homodiet.netfirms.com
http://homodiet.netfirms.com/misc/calculus.htm
http://www.cybernaut.com.au/optimal...tion/index.html
http://homodiet.netfirms.com/forum/hdforum.htm
Note: homodiet is really a follower's site: Stan Popis of South Africa

http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com...wasniewski.html

Here are some very useful pages (like the Canadian Kwasniewski forum, in Polish) translated by Google. Um... let's just say the program will never be offered a translator's job at the United Nations (wherever it doesn't know how to translate a slang word it leaves the original Polish, and it occasionally translates slang in very unique ways -- hence a thread subject: "Orgy in my Stomach"), but you can glean a lot of information between the lines.

http://translate.google.com/transla...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://translate.google.com/transla...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://translate.google.com/transla...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://translate.google.com/transla...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

http://translate.google.com/transla...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

Here's an abstract of an important study conducted in Poland, proving what most of us already know - LC/HF diets not only work - they're good for you.

Long-term consumption of a carbohydrate-restricted diet does not induce deleterious metabolic effects.

Department of Experimental Pharmacology, Polish Academy of Sciences Medical Research Center in Warsaw, 02-106 Warsaw, Poland.

Carbohydrate (CHO)-restricted diets have been recommended for weight loss and to prevent obesity, but their long-term effects have not been fully elucidated. This study was designed to evaluate the effect of long-term (>1 year) consumption of a low-CHO high-fat diet ("The optimal diet," developed by Dr Kwaśniewski referenced herein) on lipid profile, glycemic control, and cardiovascular disease risk factors in healthy subjects. Of 31 "optimal" dieters enrolled in the study (17 women and 14 men, aged 51.7+/-16.6 years), 22 declared adherence to the diet for more than 3 years. Average energy intake and principal nutrients consumed were assessed from 6-day dietary records provided by the participants. The metabolic profiles of most subjects were positive for several indicators, including relatively low concentrations of triacylglycerols, high levels of high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), and normal ratios of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol/HDL-C and total cholesterol/HDL-C. In most subjects, plasma concentrations of glucose, insulin, glucagon, cortisol, homocysteine, glycerol, and C-reactive protein were within reference ranges. Notably, in all but one subject, the homeostasis model assessment index of insulin resistance remained below the threshold for diagnosis of insulin resistance. These results indicate that long-term (>1 year) compliance with a low-CHO high-fat "optimal diet" does not induce deleterious metabolic effects and does not increase the risk for cardiovascular disease, as evidenced by maintenance of adequate glycemic control and relatively low values for conventional cardiovascular risk factors.

Grieb P , Kłapcińska B , Smol E , Pilis T , Pilis W , Sadowska-Krepa E , Sobczak A , Bartoszewicz Z , Nauman J , Stańczak K , Langfort J . Grieb P, Kłapcińska B, E Smolej, Pilis T, W Pilis, crepe-Sadowska E, Sobczak A, Bartoszewicz Z, Nauman J, K Stańczak, Langfort J.

PMID: 19083495 [PubMed - in process PMID: 19083495]

Sponsored Links

#2 ^

Sun, Apr-12-09, 11:23

Nancy LC

Experimenter

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Here's the info on manually calculating your macros:

Quote:

The principles of the Optimal Diet
The main principle of this dietary model is a marked increase in the consumption of fat, and the reduction in the consumption carbohydrate, as the energy source for the body. There are, however, strict rules on the proportion between the three main food components, protein, fat and carbohydrates, which need to be followed (with few exceptions) in order to achieve claimed benefits of the Optimal Diet.
The ideal proportion between the main food components of protein, fat and carbohydrates should be in the range of:
m m 1 : 2.5 - 3.5 : 0.8
In order to work out the correct daily food intake using this proportion, one has to know how many grams of protein needs to be ingested in a day to satisfy body's requirements. This amount varies from person to person and depends on a "due body weight". Due body weight, in kilograms, is equal to person's height in centimetres less 100 (± 10%). Thus, for a person 160 cm tall, a due body weight is 60 kg ± 6 kg.
A correct amount of protein to be consumed in a day is approx. 1 g per 1 kilogram of a due body weight. Thus, a 60 kg person needs to consume 60 ± 6 g of protein to satisfy body's daily needs. Any excess of protein, above the daily requirement, is converted by the body to fat, provided energy requirements are met by other components.
Having worked out the amount of protein, one can then calculate the amount of other components in a daily menu. Thus, for our typical 60 kg person, the consumption of 60 g of protein has to be accompanied by between 150 to 210 g of fat, and 30 to 50 g of carbohydrate in order to follow the principles of the Optimal Diet.

#3 ^

Mon, Apr-13-09, 16:12

equistar

Senior Member

Posts: 488

Plan: carnivore
Stats: 150/115/110 Female 5'2

BF:
Progress: 88%

Location: Louisiana

OK, Thanks Nancy, that's the proportions I have seen before, I made the calculations and I was exactly on target today, now to keep it up.

#4 ^

Mon, Apr-13-09, 16:26

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

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Plan: quasi paleo + starch
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BF:
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Praise the LARD
By Monica Eng
Chicago Tribune
http://weeksmd.com/?p=1106

Quote:

CHICAGO — Vinka Peschak starts each day by knocking back a full cup of heavy whipping cream.

That's at 8 a.m.

"At around 11 o'clock I take three or four egg yolks and make some kind of omelet with lard for breakfast," the Portage Park resident explains. Peschak, a native of Poland, eats her omelet with a cup of buttery boiled vegetables and a slender piece of almond toast slathered in more butter or lard.

Dinner is usually a fatty piece of pork or some kind of organ meat with lard-cooked french fries and more butter-soaked vegetables.

In the middle of the day she might have a cup of coffee, "but only with a lot of heavy whipping cream in it."

Peschak has been eating like this for more than five years. She is slim, energetic, and says, "I feel wonderful, never tired and never hungry."

She is not on Atkins. She is not on South Beach.

Peschak, along with an estimated 2 million folks worldwide is on the Optimal Diet, a Polish eating plan that requires the consumption of prodigious amounts of animal fat — preferably lard.

The diet was hatched in Poland some 40 years ago by Dr. Jan Kwasniewski, who started developing it while working as a dietician for a military sanitarium in Ciechocinek, Poland.

There he observed that many of his patients were sick, "not because of any pathogenic factors … but the result of one underlying cause — bad nutrition," according to his English language "Optimal Nutrition" book. After experimenting on his family and himself, Kwasniewski concluded that the ideal nutritional combo came from eating three grams of fat for every one gram of protein and half a gram of carbohydrates.

After a couple of decades of refining this theory, Kwasniewski published his first book in Poland in 1990. But it wasn't until converts came forward with their stories of weight loss and recovery from disease in the mid-'90s that the diet really took off it its native land and Kwasniewski's books went into wide circulation. Today there are at least two magazines devoted to the Optimal lifestyle and Kwasniewski writes a twice weekly column for the regional Polish newspaper Dziennik Zachodni.

It wasn't until 2001, though, that Chicago would become the North American capital for this eating plan. That's when Tomasz Zielinski bought a little storefront on Milwaukee Avenue and opened Calma Optimal Foods. The first and only one of its kind in the nation, it operates as a deli, meeting center and, as of this spring, a restaurant for those on the lard-laden plan. Peschak serves as its manager.

Sometimes called the Polish Atkins, the Optimal Diet severely restricts the intake of carbohydrates and sugars, but differs from Atkins by de-emphasizing protein and beefing up, or more accurately porking up, the fat to a level that would have even made the late Robert Atkins reach for his heart.

On average, the diet recommends a whopping 250 grams of fat per day, about four times what the FDA recommended for the average person to maintain his/her weight and about 10 times the amount of saturated fat allowed.

So despite its popularity in Poland — Lech Walesa is reported to have lost 44 pounds and cured his diabetes on it recently — the mainstream medical establishment there and here is skeptical.

"I am very against diets like this," says Jadwiga Roguska, a practicing internist at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern University. "All high-fat diets are unhealthy in the long term and there is absolutely no benefit to weight reduction of this sort because it is threatening to health. … Of course, high-fat diets will give you the benefits of energy and weight loss, but they are just not good for you."

Roguska based her comments on a brief overview of its principles, but Chicago physician Mark Sobor has seen it up close and has watched an increasing number of his patients in the Polish community embrace it.

"Kwasniewski is pure fat," says Sobor who practices in Jefferson Park and is also a licensed acupuncturist. "Eat fat non-stop. Everything is pure fat. The more fat you can take in the better and these people are fanatics about it. But the thing is they're all skinny."

On a recent Sunday morning at the Optimal deli/center in Portage Park, Ill., about 30 mature, fairly slim followers of the Kwasniewski plan gathered for a weekly meeting and shared their stories.

There was the ginger-haired firecracker Irena Kozlowicz, 78, who went on the diet five years ago after Kwasniewski came to speak at the Copernicus Center in 1999. At the time she was suffering from chronic eye problems, asthma and pain in her knees.

"Now I can walk better than a young person," she chirps. "I can run up six floors of stairs and my grandson can't catch me. He's 17 years old. I meet young ladies and they are always tired and sweating, but I never am. I didn't need to lose weight, but I lost 8 pounds. I am 78, but I feel like I am 50. I thank God for the diet."

Then there is Jozef Michael Ostrowski, 71, who says he has been on a variation of the diet his whole life.

"Since the occupation of Poland my parents could only afford pork meat and liver and blood sausage and lard," Ostrowski says through an interpreter. "It is not like I was following this diet precisely but generally. At that time I didn't know this kind of natural food was good for me. I just knew that I could eat scrambled eggs with a thin piece of bread and lard and I would be full all day. I started eating regular food like McDonald's and I could not handle the pain and so I went back to the diet and have felt better and better every day."

Zofia Pawlik, 56, started the diet last year when she went on an Optimal vacation, a retreat to the Wisconsin Dells to learn about the program and eat its foods. Over the course of a year, she says she has lost 10 pounds while improving her energy and overall health.

IMPRESSIVE RESULTS

Chicago physician Christopher Kubik wasn't at the meeting, but in a phone interview he said that four and a half years ago he was overweight and suffering from fatigue and stones in the bladder. But within a couple of months of embarking on this high-fat journey he saw results.

"I was losing weigh gradually (he lost about 25 pounds in six weeks) but I felt fine. Since then, I didn't have any more problems with stones, my skin complexion improved and I am still feeling a lot of energy," says Kubik, 57, who reports that he breakfasts on fried eggs, bacon and string cheese seven days a week. "So I experienced myself significant detectable improvement even though I generally had good health to begin with. While I was losing the weight I could feel the ketones as a metallic tasted on the mouth, but after I reached my optimal weight, (the ketosis) stopped. Now my weight has remained steady at about 185, which is in the upper limit of normal for my height."

Kubik, who also has degrees in public health and health law, says he does not actively promote the diet, "because it is not considered a standard of care and the medical community still recommends low-fat diets and it is not something I could support if I were sued." But if patients ask, "I tell them that I am on it and have seen positive results."

Dr. Sobor has also seen a growing number of Kwasniewski converts who claim weight loss is only one of the benefits they've reaped.

Chester Matuszewski, 46, for instance says that four years ago he was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and was told that there was no way he could be totally cured.

"Every single joint imaginable in my hips, elbows, knees and hands hurt," Matuszewski recalled. Remembering something he had read in a Polish newspaper about the Optimal diet, he decided to check it out even though it seemed unappetizing.

"For years I thought that pork is not good for you and I didn't like the smell, but I forced myself. … After two months I started to feel better and I didn't want to attribute it to the diet. But my friends also saw a difference in me and I had so much energy. Today after four years, I have no pain and no swelling and I am totally cured."

Sobor hears these stories all the time, but still has his reservations.

"I'm sure you've heard their claims that their joint pain is gone and diabetes is gone," he says. "And they say it because it's true. You can apparently get a lot of benefits if you decrease your carbohydrate intake, and stop taking in all the white flour and stop taking in all the refined foods because you are not stressing your body out all the time with all of the insulin spikes and becoming hyperglycemic and hypoglycemic."

"But do I recommend the diet? I don't know," he says. "I don't think Kwasniewski is as good as Atkins or that it is something you should go on for a long time. Now the South Beach Diet that is a nice diet with more flexibility. But this Optimal diet is the most radical of the low-carb diets."

Despite the popularity of the diet in its country of origin, it remains controversial there among traditional Polish nutritionists who oppose its high cholesterol and fat recommendations.

"They don't like it because they see it endangers their own positions as nutritional authorities," says Peschak.

NO POSITION FROM THE AMA

In the U.S. the Optimal Diet hasn't yet caught the attention of the medical establishment. The American Medical Association doesn't have a position on Atkins, much less Optimal. And Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association, had not heard of it either.

Still, based on a quick description of the diet, she didn't condemn it outright.

"I can see how this would be a very attractive program, certainly in the senior citizen community because these are nutrient dense foods and seniors don't need to eat a lot of food," says Dorfman, a licensed nutritionist.

"And some of the foods are very nutritious albeit very high in fat and cholesterol. Liver is very high in iron and B vitamins, which would be lovely for senior citizens because they need those vitamins and are usually on a budget in that time of life.

"But for the general public I see where there could be potential problems. We just know that long-term high-fat diets leave one with a heightened risk of heart disease, stroke and hypertension. This is certainly not for children, teenagers or pregnant women.

Most Americans are getting too much fat as it is and they are not getting enough activity and they have incredible risk for heart disease because of a whole multiple list of factors including genetics and stress. And so I can't imagine that adding fat and lard and cholesterol into the mix would be beneficial to that."

"But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to eating these foods. It's old country eating."

Going back to the basics. It is different from the commercial processing chemical laden foods. I certainly believe these people are benefiting in some way, but it may be more than one way and it may be for certain groups and not for others is my gut hunch. It might not be appropriate for three-quarters of the population but maybe they've hit the nail on the head and this is perfect for them."

WHAT WILL IT DO LONGTERM

Although there is general agreement in the health community that lots of refined flours and sugars and their accompanying insulin spikes are not healthful, most conventional nutritionists are still not ready to embrace low-carb, high-protein and high-fat diets because of their perceived effects on the organs.

But could wear and tear on the liver, kidneys and heart be worth it for an older person to be free of the health risks of obesity?

"That I don't know," Sobor says. "No one on Atkins has died of kidney failure yet, but you can probably find a nephrologist (kidney specialist) who says it's good, one who says its bad and one who is in between. Because the truth is no one really knows yet."

"The final question is who dies faster, the people who are obese or the people who go on these diets. You would have to take 2,000 people on the diet and then 2,000 controls to see what is going to kill them first, the extra pounds or the extra protein load on the kidneys or whatever this diet will do to you. The pounds are going to do it in the short and medium term.

There's no question about that. But the jury is out on the long term. The final arbiter is death. If they live longer than you do, then they won."

http://weeksmd.com/?p=1106

#5 ^

Mon, Apr-13-09, 16:58

deirdra

Senior Member

Posts: 4,328

Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches

BF:
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Darn it, I think the original Optimal Diet website was at
http://www.optymalni.home.pl/
However, the ones Lisa has Google-translated (from www.dr-kwasniewski.pl, which has several entries with Dr K's copyright) seem to contain some of the original content and are interlinked back & forth with http://www.optymalni.org.pl/

Last edited by deirdra : Mon, Apr-13-09 at 17:10.

#6 ^

Mon, Apr-13-09, 19:50

awriter

Registered Member

Posts: 1,096

Plan: Kwasniewski Ratios
Stats: 225/158/145 Female 65

BF:53%/24%/20%
Progress: 84%

Quote:

Originally Posted by deirdra

Deirdra - unfortunately none of those sites belong to Dr. K - and never have. If this is where you got your info years ago (like not counting veggie proteins) it may be correct, but it may not.

However, I've spent the last several hours doing deep research on the net and believe I've come up with some good information, including a brief paper (in English) written by Dr. K himself. I'll post that on the other site tomorrow, but will copy and paste this message to the other thread. I'm really trying to get folks not to post anything here, but to use the other thread for all info - otherwise it will be impossible for newbies to get everything, and impossible for those of us already following the thread to keep up.

Lisa

#7 ^

Tue, Apr-14-09, 10:26

Nancy LC

Experimenter

Posts: 25,866

Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67

BF:
Progress: 72%

Location: San Diego, CA

Ok, I didn't quote enough about the ratio. That ratio I posted above is if you're not obese (or overweight). They have you eating less fat for the first month if you are overweight and the ratio is 1g/1-2g/.8g p/f/c.

#8 ^

Tue, Apr-14-09, 19:41

gwynne2

Senior Member

Posts: 1,700

Plan: Lowcarb/IF
Stats: 215/173.9/150 Female 5.5"

BF:
Progress: 63%

Hmm. Dr Eric Westman loaned me this guy's book. I haven't read it or returned it. I'm taking all these threads on it as a sign that I really ought to do both.

#9 ^

Wed, Apr-15-09, 04:44

Matt51

Senior Member

Posts: 704

Plan: semi-low carb
Stats: 277/200/177 Male 69 inches

BF:
Progress: 77%

Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

Thanks awriter and Nancy LC, excellent information. Taking the time to share your knowledge is appreciated.

#10 ^

Wed, Apr-15-09, 20:34

articshark articshark is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 377

Plan: atkins-y paleo-y
Stats: 164.2/125.2/125 Female 64

BF:
Progress: 99%

bump... to keep it at the top

#11 ^

Fri, Apr-17-09, 12:54

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

English language webpages from defunct website

FAQ from the Australian Homo Optimus Society (from Google Cache)

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

GOOGLE CACHED pages from the original Australian website

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...%2F+Kwasniewski

EXAMPLE: cached page of the Australian Homo Optimus Society

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

#12 ^

Fri, Apr-17-09, 13:32

lil' annie lil' annie is offline

Senior Member

Posts: 1,276

Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"

BF:
Progress: 14%

Article written by Dr. Jan Kwasniewski

Optimal Nutrition versus Atkins Diet

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

Quote:

Page 1
Optimal Nutrition versus Atkins Diet

Part 1

After 30 years since the Atkins diet was first publicised, some US scientists finally concluded that it could have some merits. A decision was made to set up clinical trials in which the effects of the Atkins diet would be assessed in overweight people and in those suffering from certain ailments. The results of these trials are to be known in 2005.

A few years back, in my books and publications, I wrote about the "new, revolutionary diet by Dr Atkins." I have stressed that the Atkins diet is better than any other currently recommended diet, and in particular far better than any of those recommended by "the most renowned scientific institutions," but has nothing in common with the Optimal Nutrition (ON), the nutritional model I devised over 30 years ago.

Dr Wolfgang Lutz, the Austrian medical practitioner and distinguished scientist, the author of the book Life without bread,whom a few years ago I personally familiarised with the principles of ON and the results achieved in its utilization in the treatment of a range of so-called 'untreatable diseases' recently wrote: "Dr Jan Kwasniewski, using extremely high amounts of fat in the diet, has been achieving for some 30 years now, results which are much better than any achieved by other types of low carbohydrate diets."

Too much protein!

Dr Atkins has read my book, published in English under the title Homo Optimus and asked for further materials. From the outset, Dr Atkins has been recommending a diet which is very high in protein, with a restricted intake, or even temporary elimination, of carbohydrates, a nutritional plan best described as a weight-loss diet. Under his dietary regimen, apart from the weight loss, some other health benefits have been achieved at times, but deleterious effects, including those endangering life, have also been reported.

That is why some patients claimed that the Atkins diet led to a worsening of their health.

Recently, Dr Atkins described the daily ratios between main nutrients in his diet for the first and second stages of its implementation. These ratios were calculated as a percentage of total energy delivered in 24 hours by protein (P), fat (F) and carbohydrates (C), and were 36%, 53% and 8% in the first stage, and 26%, 41% and 33%, in the second stage, respectively. Calculated in terms of the weight (grams) of P, F and C these correspond to:

1:0.66:0.22 in the first stage, and 1:0.7:1.3 in the second stage, respectively.

Thus as can be seen, Atkins diet was and still is very high in P, relatively low in F and very low in C, and as such, it differs remarkably from ON. The recommended daily ratio between P, F and C in the ON (calculated per 1kg of ideal bodyweight) is 1:3.5:0.8, and for an overweight person 1:2.5:0.8, until the bodyweight is stabilized in the normal range. These ratios converted into percentage of energy from P, F and C are: 10%, 82% and 8% and 12.5%, 77% and 10%, respectively.

Thus, the supply of the main nutrients, P:F:C (in grams) for a daily energy intake set at 2000 Kcal is as follows:

- Atkins diet 1st stage - 190:120:40;
- Atkins diet 2nd stage - 130:91:135;

- Optimal Nutrition for overweight - 62:166:50;
- Optimal Nutrition for normal weight 50:176:40.

Very different diets

Even at the first glance, it is obvious that the Atkins diet and ON are very far apart, but even further apart are their effects in treatment of various diseases. A further difference stems from the fact that the ON was quite extensively tested in the 1980s on animals and in

Page 2

patients diagnosed with narrowing of the coronary arteries, most of whom were overweight and also suffered from other serious ailments. This research was conducted in Poland by 11 professors and PhDs who with their teams worked under the supervision of professor H. Rafalski.

These investigations were requested by the Polish Prime Minister and financed by the Ministry of Science, but greatly disrupted by the minister of Health and the Institute of Food and Nutrition. In the clinical study, all tested health parameters showed objective improvement after 6 months, many diseases abated, and not even a single case of negative findings was recorded. These results remain "hidden" to this day!

A program of further extensive clinical research on patients with various diseases was planned for years 1981 to 1985, and the Minister of Science, Education and Technology had already allocated the funds. However, the plan did not come to fruition. In December 1981, the Marshall Law was implemented in Poland, and as could be expected the money was needed for a different kind of "research."
.
ON is the only known model of human nutrition based on science, with all other 'diets'being based on beliefs or opinions of their creators.

Nutritional recommendations based on the present biochemical knowledge stipulate a daily requirement for protein of 30 to 40g, for carbohydrates of 50g to 100g, so the rest of daily energy needs should be supplied in the form of fat. It follows that fats delivering the most energy per unit of weight should take a preference in place of those delivering less of it, because exactly the same rules are applied to fuel in technology. One can believe or have an opinion that the fuel giving 11 Kcal from 1 gram is inferior to the fuel providing 4 Kcal from 1 gram, but that is only a belief or an opinion, and these are the results of a faulty structure and function of the human brain.

A faulty structure and performance of thehuman brain are the results of wrong nutrition practiced by the "owner" of a brain and they must be pathological when the nutritional model is not based on laws governing basic science.

The scientific bases

Medical practitioner, Dr Przemyslaw Pala, himself on the ON for the last 5 years, wrote in a monthly magazine Optymalnia, number 42, February 2003:

"Over the period of 5 years I have analyzed more than 6000 cases of patients who adopted the ON. Not a single one of them showed a negative effect in their health, but most had a significant improvement or a complete recovery from their disease including those, which up to now are considered incurable. For diabetes type1 of a reasonably short duration, abatement of symptoms occurs in a matter of a few days, or up to 2-3 weeks in 100% of cases.

For a complicated, long-duration diabetes type 1 and type 2, the "cure" rate is close to 90%, and in the remaining 10% of cases significant improvement is achieved between 3 weeks and 3 months for most patients. Asthma in children is normally cured only within 7 days, and in adults within 2 weeks. Rapid improvements are observed in patients with Buerger's disease or atherosclerosis of lower limbs, with some showing up to 500% increase in the distance of lameness within 2 weeks of starting ON. The most rapid improvements are achieved in digestive tract ailments; there have been many cases of a "cure" or a significant improvement in patients with Multiple Sclerosis."

These types of clinical results have not been seen in any clinic or in any country, and have not occurred after any known method of treatment. The Atkins diet most certainly cannot cure diabetes type 1 or any other serious disease, most of which are typically cured with the aid of ON.

JAN KWASNIEWSKI

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...&gl=us&ie=UTF-8

Last edited by lil' annie : Fri, Apr-17-09 at 13:39.

#13 ^

Fri, Apr-17-09, 14:33

Valtor

Senior Member

Posts: 2,036

Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"

BF:
Progress: 58%

Location: Québec, Canada

Humm, I thought Atkins was higher fat than that. It's good to know.

Patrick

#14 ^

Sat, Apr-25-09, 13:25

ImOnMyWay

Senior Member

Posts: 3,831

Plan: OWL
Stats: 177/168/135 Female 5'1"

BF:50.5/38/25
Progress: 21%

Location: Los Angeles

Lisa Dorfman, spokeswoman for the American Dietetic Association:

"But for this group of Polish seniors I think it's adorable, especially if it was developed by someone from the old country. As a psychotherapist, I can see where they must feel like you've got to be healthy eating this because there is a psychological connection to eating these foods. It's old country eating."

“Adorable”? How condescending is that? Is she suggesting that psychological factors are more important than science for seniors? Does that mean that if someone is overweight, it’s all in his head? Clearly there are psychological factors involved, but once the food is eaten, isn’t the processing of what you’ve eaten all mechanics? What is this person doing giving an opinion about the scientific virtues and faults of a particular dietary regimen? It’s all “belief” and “gut hunch” for her.

#15 ^

Mon, Apr-27-09, 18:39

Nelson

Senior Member

Posts: 1,096

Plan: Organic Dukan Attack
Stats: 132/129.4/116 Female 4' 11"

BF:
Progress: 16%

Location: So. Cal.

Bumped because it is getting lost and people may be asking questions that are answered here.