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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Mar-08-02, 00:44
LC_Dave LC_Dave is offline
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Posts: 959
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 473/332/190 Male 75.6
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Melbourne Australia
Question Help with buying scales!

Hi guys, in an earlier thread about using the 'two scale' method Donald and Jim mentioned they had purchased proper scales to weigh themselves.
Can you guys help me out with a link or some info on the type of scales you bought?

Can anyone else recommend a brand or type of scale that could weigh me? Prefferably for home use.

Thanks

LC_Dave
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Mar-08-02, 07:06
DWRolfe's Avatar
DWRolfe DWRolfe is offline
Posts: 6,588
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 468/371/275 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Chicago, IL
Lightbulb Large Capacity Scale...

Good morning, LC__Dave...

Here is a link to ther brand of scale I purchased. It weighs to the half pound and has a 500 pound capacity. I see that the vendor of this site ships worldwide. If they can't ship to you, just search on the net using LARGE CAPACITY BATHROOM SCALE.

I purchased mine 2 years ago and have had no trouble with it. It operates on battery or with a plug and is accurate. It also has a large bed to stand on so no more wobbling around on the plastic models.

Check it out....& good luck!

http://www.valuescale.com/bathscales.htm

Donald
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Mar-08-02, 11:03
OKwoer's Avatar
OKwoer OKwoer is offline
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Posts: 128
 
Plan: Jim's modified CALP
Stats: 483/405/220
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Oklahoma City
Default

Hey Dave.
I have the same scale as Donald. Mine doesn't have the pole that extends the display off the ground. I did a search just now and I can't find any place that has it cheaper than what Donald provided. I wish I had that site when I bought mine. I paid $200 for the version without the pole. The version with the pole where I bought mine was $220.

I know it's a big investment, but I think it's important to help you keep on track.

God Bless,
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Mar-08-02, 11:28
szar's Avatar
szar szar is offline
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Posts: 655
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 452/386/200 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 26%
Location: Upper Peninsula of MI
Default

Hey Dave,

I bought mine from www.drugstore.com. Just do a search for scales. It is a health-o-meter Duet Premium Dual Display Scale. It is accurate to 400lbs. It was $89 when I bought it, but it has gone up to $100. I am sure anyone who is handling health-o-meter can get it. It is digital with .5lb resolution and has a motorized dial that displays the same info.

Mark

Pasted from product description:

Working in perfect harmony. Our premium combination dial and digital scale offers traditional comfort in concert with high tech readability. The simple way to fine-tune your healthy lifestyle.

Easy to read dual dial and digital display.
Accurate up to 400 lbs.
Long-lasting, reliable steel construction.
Auto zero/auto off feature to accurately reset scale to zero.
9 Volt Battery Not Included.
5 Year Limited Warranty
Model HEM001 KD-95
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Mar-09-02, 13:54
LC_Dave LC_Dave is offline
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Posts: 959
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 473/332/190 Male 75.6
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Melbourne Australia
Default Thanks!

Thanks guys

Checking those options out now!

LC_Dave
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Mar-13-02, 03:40
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,654
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 408.0/288.0/168.0 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Southern Colorado, USA
Default

But what does "accurate" to 400# mean? The manufacturer has left themsleves a LOT of wiggle room in a claim like that.

The best scales are going to be the beam scales (frequently referred to as medical scales). The one I have (which I got at Best for $89 and they had a shorter version for $59) has a 350 pound capacity with a resolution of 1/8 pound and a precision (repeatability from measurement to measurement) of about 1/4 pound. The accuracy at full scale is better than 1/2 pound as well.

Extending it to read above 350 pounds is very easy. All you have to do is place something on the scale that is heavier than the amount you want to extend the scale by. If you want to extend it by 25 pounds you could place a bucket with, say, five gallons of water on it. You could also have someone else that is under 350 get on it. Note the measurement - say the person weighs 182 pounds. Now set the scale to read at least 25 pounds lighter - so set it for, say, 150 pounds. Now affix (tape, tie, whatever) weights (washers, pennies) to the tip of the beam pointer until the beam drops down. Now balance the scale again (say it came out to read 143 pounds). The difference between the two measurements (39 pounds in this case) is how much you have extended the range by. Weigh yourself and add 39 pounds to it.

If you are willing to spend some time (15 minutes or so) tweaking your little counterweight you can easily get it to read such that you add exactly 20 pounds or 30 pounds.

Hope that helps.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Mar-25-02, 07:51
texas-newf's Avatar
texas-newf texas-newf is offline
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Posts: 50
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 437/392/360
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Dallas, Texas
Default

Hi Dave,

I bought mine at http://www.balances.net/.
It was good to 500 pounds and was certified for use for buying and selling goods. So it must be accurate. I confirmed it's accuracy with a special hospital scale for big people and it's been right on the mark. Funny thing is that those scales that some of the GNC stores have are also very accurate. But you gotta spend 50c a shot and I was not very comfortable weighing myself in the mall having people watch the fat guy get on the scale

I double checked the scale I bought and they call it a "Shipping Scale".. http://balance.balances.com/scales/341
They sell it for $179.


Good luck..
Craig'er
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Mar-25-02, 08:10
qcchevyman's Avatar
qcchevyman qcchevyman is offline
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Posts: 21,910
 
Plan: Rich's New Diet
Stats: 532/395/300 Male 6"6"
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: Milan. Illinois
Default Hi Dave

Like Donald said about the www.valuescale.com you can find some really nice scales there. I just ordered a WS1000L Scale that will weigh up to 1,000 pounds. My total Cost with Shipping is $317.10. I know that's a lot but I really wanted one that goes that High. Also I figure staying away from the Fast Food Places for 2 months will pay for it. LOL.

I will be getting mine by this Weds. Good Luck Dave.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Mar-25-02, 13:20
briannajoy's Avatar
briannajoy briannajoy is offline
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Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 340/318/180
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: Washington State
Default

Ahhh scales

I had a incident with them not too long ago.. I was being weighed on the scale at my doctor's office which was a digital scale, the weight on my profile reflects that, then I got weighed at my psychiatrists office which used a very different scale, the old fashioned one with the sliding bar. The one with the sliding bar told me I was like 20 pounds over what the digital one said! I'm going to be buying a scale so I'm all confused now, I'm not sure exactly how much I weigh and I would like to get the scale with the 330 max weight.. I'm reasonably sure that I'm under that now, but I'm not sure which scale was right! Do you know if the digital ones tend to be more accurate or the other way around??? This would really help

Tomorrow will be 2 months on this WOL

I'm buying a scale in the next 2 weeks.. I'm kind of excited but a little nervous too.

:P

Darned scales

Brianna
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Mar-25-02, 16:57
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
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Posts: 8,654
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 408.0/288.0/168.0 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Southern Colorado, USA
Default

The other way around. By far.

A balance is the most accurate and precise means of measuring the mass of normal objects. If you are talking about measuring the mass of an electron or a planet, then that's a different story. Even the international standard for electrical current uses a balance.

Don't be fooled by the "accuracy" claims of the scale vendors - those claims are written up by marketing types that don't have the slightest clue what accuracy means and, frankly, they don't care.

I can easily design a digital scale that has a RESOLUTION of 0.001 lb. All this means is that the display reads out in those increments. If I were to design such a scale, it would invariably be advertised as having an accuracy of 0.001 lb and have a correspondingly high price tag. Never mind that if you placed a 100 pound object on the scale it might read 110.352 lb and if you took that object off the scale and then set it back on it might now read 114.791 lb.

Marketing people do not care about truth in advertising. Don't believe me? Check out the air compressors at your local hardware store. They will advertise, in big numbers right on the side of the unit, that it is a 4 HP or 5 HP or even 6 HP compressor that runs off of a 120V 15A outlet. The only problem is that the motors on those compressors are almost invariably 1.5 HP motors since the maximum amount of power that can be delivered by such an outlet is less than 2.5 HP before tripping the breaker and even a 2 HP motor will generally trip the breaker as it starts under load.

By I digress - back to scales.

A spring scale - and a digital scale is nothing but a spring scale with a digital readout - suffer from a host of influences that affect their accuracy (how close the the displayed reading is to the correct reading) and precision (how repeatable a measurement is without respect to accuracy).

A spring scale depends on the deformation of some type of spring. The readout - be it mechanical or digital - then somehow responds to this deformation. The deformations are very minute, a tiny fraction of an inch in a mechanical spring scale and not much more than the width of a few dozen hairs in the case of many digital scales. Sensing such small deformations accurately and precisely and CHEAPLY is not easy. Furthermore, there are lots of other factors that can also cause deformations such as how the weight is distributed on the platform and the temperature.

Furthermore, spring scales are not intrisically linear. By this I mean that if you place a ten pound weight on the scale and note the reading, then add a one pound weight and note then increase, this is probably not going to be the same increase that you would observe by starting with a one hundred pound weight and then adding that same one pound additional mass. This is particularly true of digital scales because there are inherent nonlinearities in the sensing circuit and, while those nonlinearities can be greatly reduced with additional strain gages and circuitry, this is never done in a consumer scale because it is cost prohibitive.

For this reason, a mechanical dial spring scale is almost always more accurate and more precise than a consumer quality digital scale. Now, if we are talking about the much higher end scales that have a fully populated and compensated Wheatstone Bridge as the sensing unit, that's a different matter. Those can be quite repeatable though they must still be calibrated fairly frequently.

Spring scales also inhibit significant hysteresis. This means that if you apply the load going up (stepping on the scale slowly and smoothly) that you will get a different reading than if you apply the load going down (step on the scale holding a gallon jug of water and then smoothly set the jug on the counter).

So when a scale claims that is it "accurate up to 400 pounds" all that means is that it is capable of displaying a result up to 400 pounds. Likewise, if it says that it is "accurate to 0.1 pounds" all that means is that it can display results in 0.1 pound increments.

Beam balances, on the other hand, are virtually immune to all of these influences by the very physics of the way they operate. Furthermore, they basically never need calibrating (beyond re-zeroing) because the calibration is due solely to the location of the pivot points and not upon the spring constant of some piece of material that changes with temperature and over time.

To give you an example, I have a Health-O-Meter Model 200S Medical Beam Balance that is marked up to 350 lb in 0.25 lb increments. And this is what the marketers tout as the "accuracy" numbers for the scale. In point of fact, the accuracy and precision on it are closer to (and probably better than) 0.125 lb.

A point that really illustrates this - as well as demonstrating the superb linearity of the scale - is that I needed it to measure up to 380# so I added a homemade counterweight. I sized the counterweight by placing three 10 pound weights on the scale and, with the scale set to zero, adjusted the number of washers on my counterweight until it balanced After that, I just weighed myself and added 30 pounds to whatever the result was.

When I finally got down to under 345 pounds, the scale was reading 314.75 (for a total of 344.75) and I took the counterweight off and took a new reading. It read right on 344.75 pounds. So a 30 pound difference at 0 and a 30 pound difference at ~350 lb were indistinquishable. Not bad at all. In order to achieve that kind of linearity, the absolute accuracy also has to be better than 0.25 pound.

BTW: You can buy a counterweight for that scale that extends the range up to 450#. The counterweight is currently about $50 but you can extend the range (probably up to about 600# - the limit is when you start physically damaging the scale platform and that is almost surely above the 700# level) with a nail (or some string) and a bunch of five cent washers.

I know that was long, but hopefully it was worth it.

If you are interested in such a scale, you definitely have to shop around for the best price.

For instance,

www.health-o-meter.balances.com has the scale that I use for $239.95 and claim that the MSRP is $320.

www.bodytrends.com goes one better and sells it for #336.49.

Yet www.drugstore.com has the EXACT same scale for $189.99. A shorter version of this scale is $119.99 on this same site.

I bought mine at Best about six years ago for $89.00 and I have a hard time believing that inflation has more than doubled its price, so you may well find it at Sam's Club or Wal-Mart for under $150.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Mar-26-02, 03:11
briannajoy's Avatar
briannajoy briannajoy is offline
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Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 340/318/180
BF:
Progress: 14%
Location: Washington State
Default

Wbahn,

WOW, you certainly packed a lot of information into that post and I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed post about the question I asked. The answer isn't what I was looking for, I suppose because the weight on the mechanical scale was significantly higher than the weight on the digital scale. Unfortunately, I can't afford those really big scales right now, I'm a college student and I don't have much money. I might just have to go with the digital one, inaccurate as it may be.

I mean, even if exactly what I weigh is inaccurate, won't it still show my weight loss, meaning lets say it says that I weight like 330 lbs right? Lets say I really weigh 340, and then I lose 10 lbs, and the scale says 320, but I'm really 330, it still shows that I've lost 10lbs regardless of the weight I am, know what I mean? So I suppose it's a good thing, in that way. I'm going to have to get one of those cheap digital scales unfortunately. I saw some really nice ones that I wanted but these darned things get really expensive.

Well it's late here I'm gonna hit the sack

Thanks again for the reply, I appreciate it

Brianna
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Mar-26-02, 07:11
qcchevyman's Avatar
qcchevyman qcchevyman is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 21,910
 
Plan: Rich's New Diet
Stats: 532/395/300 Male 6"6"
BF:
Progress: 59%
Location: Milan. Illinois
Default Hi Briana

I Totaly agree about the Digtal Scale. I for one don't see the need to have to go and buy weights and do tweeking on a scale. I just ordered a scale the weighs up to 1,000 pounds and it is Digital. I feel it will still give me a good idea of how my progress is going. So I'm going to be Plenty Satisfied with it. I know what you mean about the Expsence. Mine is going to cost $317.00, but I'm still glad I'm making the Investment. Keep up the Good Work Briana.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Mar-26-02, 09:39
DWRolfe's Avatar
DWRolfe DWRolfe is offline
Posts: 6,588
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 468/371/275 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Chicago, IL
Post Brianna...

I know what you mean about those sliding bar scales...

...anytime I have been weighed at my doctor's office using a bar scale with the balance weights, I get a reading that is like 20lbs higher than I expect. I'm not even going to try to offer explanations as to why...that's pretty much been exhausted here.

I think you'll be satisfied with a digital scale. It might cost a bit more to get one with a slightly increased capacity, but it'll serve you well on your journey downward.

Hey wban.... ...what's with all the marketing bashing? As a Marketing & Communications professional, I have to take exception with your generalizations. Not all of us wordsmith in order to deceive the public!

Donald
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Mar-26-02, 10:17
OKwoer's Avatar
OKwoer OKwoer is offline
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Posts: 128
 
Plan: Jim's modified CALP
Stats: 483/405/220
BF:
Progress: 30%
Location: Oklahoma City
Default

Where's LC Dave? I haven't seen any posts from him in a while? Dave if you're out there, get back in here. We need you and you need us!

Donald, I know what you mean about being characterized by your profession. I teach statistics, and because so many people lie with statistics, people assume I teach people to lie. Nothing could be further from the truth. I actually challenge my students to uphold the truth and not to hide behind numbers.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Mar-26-02, 11:34
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,654
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 408.0/288.0/168.0 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Southern Colorado, USA
Default

Brianna: For showing weight loss, any scale will do as long as it is adequately precise. I will take precision over accuracy any day - because I can always calibrate to get the accuracy.

Taking your example: "lets say it says that I weight like 330 lbs right? Lets say I really weigh 340, and then I lose 10 lbs, and the scale says 320, but I'm really 330, it still shows that I've lost 10lbs regardless of the weight I am"

If you have a precise scale, meaning that everytime you place a 340 pound object on it it reads 330 pounds and everytime you place a 330 pound object it weighs 320 pounds, then you are correct. But many mechanical, especially digital, scales do not exhibit this characteristic. I had a digital scale - and not a cheap one - that if I took ten different readings one after another I got readings that varied over a range of nearly ten pounds.

If you have such a scale, this is the situation you are setting up: You weigh yourself and your true weight is 340 pounds and you scale, which reads 10 lb low on average but varies up to five pounds around that point (in other words, the reading is always between 5 and 15 pounds low), shows that you weigh 327 lb. At the end of the month, your true weight is 335 pounds and you step on the scale and it reads 329 pounds. Very frustrating to thing that you've gained two pounds over the course of a month. Now, due to the frustration, you cheat a bit and aren't as good the next month and your true weight goes to 338 lb. But when you step on the scale it shows 325 pounds and you think, wow, the key is not being so strict and eating a bit of ice cream every night.

To avoid the above possibility, you want to find a precise scale and then give it every opportunity to be precise that you can. Before you buy it, if at all possible, step on it several time with your feet in somewhat different positions and placing the weight sometimes on your heels and sometimes on your balls and see how much the weight varies by. If it's more than a couple of pounds, go to a different scale. Then, having bought one, always stand on it the exact same way as best you can, always use it at the same time of say with the room temperature the same and always gradually transition your weight on to it.

Then, when you get a reading, always remind yourself how much that reading might be off by.

Over a long enough period of time, as you lose weight, these errors become lost in the noise. But if you are weighing yourself weekly or daily they can give you false ups and downs that can be really hard on you.
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