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  #46   ^
Old Thu, Oct-24-02, 18:59
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 35,702
Plan: DANDR '92
Stats: 236/181/140 Female 165 cm
Progress: 57%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default Re: Refute an Article

Originally posted by jhilgeman
(BTW, I'm posting this to a lot of different low-carb sites, so you might see this on another site forum.)
hi there Jonathan,

What other sites have you posted to? I'm curious, and sincerely wish to know what other responses you've received to your questions. Perhaps the other sites have another slant on things?

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  #47   ^
Old Fri, Oct-25-02, 16:19
quietone quietone is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,270
Plan: original 72 Atkins
Stats: 201/177/142 Female 65 inches
Progress: 41%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default the newest "new study"....

Hi, Jonathan...

I have always kept up with the latest medical studies. Have you seen the one that recently was reported on MSNBC about the findings that "oh, looks like we were wrong...too much insulin production DOES seem to cause heart problems and cancer..." (I took liberty with that quote).

And, honey, that means all this disease we have is being caused by our freely available carb sources. We weren't meant to have constant, steady supplies of simple carbohydrates.

To make it short, from what I have read of your entries, it looks like your interested in finding....what?!

Let me give you this example of why the so-called good, eatin', low fat, moderate diet doesn't work. My ex-boss. He ate healthfully his whole life, he has exercised his whole life, he has never smoked or tried any kind of drugs, he has only drink an occasional glass of wine. He has a close-knit family, goes to bed a reasonable time, takes vacations, etc. etc. Everything that everyone is telling you is healthy....last year he was diagnosed with cancer. A very ferrocious kind. Now that was a confused man. And why shouldn't he be.

So, you see, for all you want of "studies" and "proof" isn't worth the paper its written on. As my Mom used to say: "the proof is in the puddin'"

There is no one, right answer. There is only the answer that is right for you. And for a lot of us, eating just normal portions of bread, chips, beer, potatoes, corn, beans etc. doesn't work. It is real obvious when you look at my husband and I. If wee both eat the same foods (except he eats cookies all day), I am overweight and he is not. If he eats the meats I like, his cholesterol would go up. I could go on and on, but the emphasis is: the medical community has long been trying to treat everyone as the same...and we are not.
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  #48   ^
Old Fri, Oct-25-02, 17:31
shandyAndy shandyAndy is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 50
Plan: Life without bread
Stats: 200/175/170
Progress: 83%
Location: UK
Talking hmmm?

It seems some of you guys get a little too emotionally attached when debating things that are close to your heart, which is fair enough but it will cloud your judgment...

How about this for an idea? Perhaps we should discuss the things we do agree on, if there is simply no real proof for what we follow as a whole.... There must be things that everyone agrees on and that can make small differences in the way we live and our health. I think artifical sweetners maybe one, or the way we cook foods?

To be honest, i never questioned evoltution until i read this message. I really was in doctrinated. It's hard for me not to believe in evoltion and from an evolutionary stand point its hard for me not to accept low carb is the healthiest way of eating. Two words, "ice age". Still i can see now that scientific evidence is the only real proof that we have.

I do have one question for thos devote followers of the evolutionary theory however; is it conseivable that some of the food introduced with agriculture may actuallty have a beneficial effect? Even though most can argue that there are many cons to these foods, is it also possible that for some, the pros out weigh them? Flavonoids for example. I have read these are very healthy and are found abundantly in many agricultural foods...

Thanks for your time...
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  #49   ^
Old Sat, Oct-26-02, 12:10
shandyAndy shandyAndy is offline
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Posts: 50
Plan: Life without bread
Stats: 200/175/170
Progress: 83%
Location: UK

oh and this is quite interesting....Apiece on food and evolution, pro vegetarian, for those who are interested:
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  #50   ^
Old Sat, Oct-26-02, 16:58
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
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Posts: 19,209
Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada

Let's keep this thread to critiquing Jonathan's web site. You can always start a new thread to debate evolution...

Jonathan, another thing I wanted to point out: on your index page, it says, "We also provide a quick glossary of terms..."

Who is "we," exactly?

I think it would be responsible if you state who "we" is/are and what credentials you have. Legally, the disclaimer is good enough, but disclosure is the difference between credibility and the lack thereof, IMHO.
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  #51   ^
Old Sat, Oct-26-02, 20:53
tofi's Avatar
tofi tofi is offline
Posts: 6,204
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 244/220/170 Female 65.4inches
Progress: 32%
Location: Ontario

At the same time, ask who owns or promotes "Nature's Flavours" products and wants to sell them to LCers. And look for reviews of the products and whether any of the customers would EVER buy the stuff again after tasting it.

And when all this good information is posted here with references, does it end up on someone else's website? Hmmm. Why don't we all just ignore this thread from here on out?
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  #52   ^
Old Sat, Oct-26-02, 22:24
suze_c's Avatar
suze_c suze_c is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,082
Plan: SuManKins
Stats: 321/249/221 Female 64 inches
BF:Let's not go there
Progress: 72%
Location: Midwest Flatlands
Default There WAS another post here... hmmm

I got an email about another post on here, and was looking at it... then went to the first page, so I could get the url for jonathan's webpage, and tofi's post is gone! I didn't see where it was anything bad.... but anyhow... I went to see the website... and if jonathan is so against ketogenic diets, then why is he providing links to places that are selling products for those on ketogenic diets!? And I agree with Kristine... who is the "we" that is talked about?
The time this happens naturally is when you are starving. When you don't take in any food, this whole process begins automatically to keep you from dying.
I am sorry to disagree here... there are other times that a body is in ketosis without starving.
Physiological Ketosis ::As we've mentioned, suckling babies (high-fat diet of the milk) are in a natural state of ketosis. Another natural ketosis occurs after exercise, caused by the depletion of stored carbohydrate reserves (glycogen) in the liver. Yet another natural state, which less desirable, is fasting that is prolonged beyond 24 hours. All these situations have in common a low carbohydrate-availability status.... as well as in pregnancy.
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  #53   ^
Old Sun, Mar-02-03, 16:06
Teuthis's Avatar
Teuthis Teuthis is offline
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Posts: 291
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 310/250/160
Progress: 40%
Location: Georgia
Default Results

What is better? Spending twenty years starving periodically and then gaining weight back? Or finding a way to get the weight off and keep it off. I think I'll live longer, leaner. And I think I'll be much happier too.

All of you dietary dogmatists are carping and running scared because a simple principle has come to light. You had it wrong all these years and it is humiliating.

One basic fact. Eating a low fat/high carb diet is not evolutionarily sound for homo sapiens. We did not evolve eating flour, potatoes, rice, corn, or sugar as staples of our diet. We ate protein, fats, seeds and nuts. Agriculture as we know it is only at best, ten thousand years old. Considering our lifespans and evolutionary history, that is a blink of the eye. We could not possibly have, even under syncopated equilibrium, effected the mutuations to deal with massive carbohydrate intake yet. I think the rampaging obesity rates in this country demonstrate that quite well.

Write all the inane articles you want. Leaner is better, even if it takes some fats and meats to do it. Besides, if you knew anything about, say Atkins diet, you would know that it is not long-term, high-fat diet. What I will not be eating in the future is significant amounts of processed carbohydrates, or sugar. What I am already eating now are moderate volumes of protein, moderate volumes of fats, and moderate volumes of vegetables. I am losing weight at a moderate, but consistent rate. I feel ten times better than I did three months ago. How does one fault that?

If you are trying to lose weight on any plan, good luck to you
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