Trying to remember the last time I ate 5 pounds of cauliflower at one meal. Oh yeah, never. Food and the way one reacts to food is so individualized. SPC may work for some, but not even close for me if I want to stay satiated with healthy foods. The other issue is that it’s fine to label a food’s contents of nutrients, but the key is to label nutrient availability for humans. This is where the measurements fall apart. While there are readily available sources for food nutrient and micronutrient profiles, there are few studies showing actual absorption rates of nutrient quantities in humans. The largest conflation of nutrient availability is between plant and animal protein as an example. This applies to all food nutrients. We don’t know what we can’t measure.

BW,
Marty Kendall's programs support some 30 diets, including Carnivore. Nutrient satiety is also considered as part of HAVA's satiety score. As long as you can meet your goals, it is all good.
If you drop plants and keep seafood and dairy, you can still get a fairly nutritious outcome. https://optimisingnutrition.com/car...ased-nutrients/

Rob, I was trying to find a calorie equal amount, 5 pounds was close .
Point taken on nutrient availability, but it’s what we've got now.

Thanks, Janet! I looked into Marty's carnivore writings. I do eat some dairy and some seafood. I'm also careful about added fat, as the high-fat percentages have never been doable for me.

I agree with GRB about nutrient availability.

Do you know what exactly the algorithm is based on? Can you really measure the satiety of a food for any given person? Isn't that somewhat subjective? Not trying to be argumentative, just asking.

After five years of dedicated analysis of 838,686 days of data from free-living people, ON has unearthed satiety factors that drive your hunger, appetite, and fullness.

Cracking the Hunger Code: Our Satiety Algorithm
https://optimisingnutrition.com/satiety-hunger-code/



There are many similarities among Diet Doctor, Ted Naiman's PE Diet and Marty's Optimising Nutrition's Satiety Scores. Marty's put more weight on Nutrients, which are important to me.

Janet, understood and your math is solid. Just the thought of eating 5 pounds of cauliflower to get the caloric equivalent gave me pause . I still don’t closely watch calories, but I realize we all take various approaches based on what works. You and many others are testimony to the ON program. It works tremendously well for you.

A new update from Dr. Eenfeldt…How Satiety can be TOO effective for weight loss.

He was already lean and healthy, but even eating more carbs and making exceptions for social occasions, he is now at his lowest weight in years. He doesn’t mention it, but for me, this is also why maintenance is easy with Satiety Per Calorie.

A new interview video/podcast on Peak Human Podcast, with Dr Eenfeldt and Dr Naiman discussing Satiety Per Calorie, their concerns about the new focus on Ultra Processed Foods, exceptions to definitions, many good practical tips how to increase Protein Awareness and manage Energy/Nutrient Density

https://youtu.be/4dJy9_SqCA8?si=FqmRwcVSfe7H6AMt Includes Chapter time stamps, transcripts, etc.

Also Podcast #212

Today, launch day for the HAVA Blog, starts with a few articles and an Interview with Marty Kendall.
The Blog also has an excellent Beginner Guide to High Satiety eating,
https://www.hava.co/satiety/beginners-guide

Diet Doctor is keeping his awesome website for everything Low Carb and Keto.
But if you haven’t been able to reach and maintain your ideal body weight, consider using a Satiety Score to find foods that work better for you. With minor tweaks, I still eat low carb, 50-70 g TC a day, but increased Protein and Fiber, while reducing fat (but still 40%)

To answer previous question, what goes into Hava's algorithm :




VIDEO/Podcast: "Marty Kendall brings an engineer’s analytical rigor to the world of nutrition, dispelling common myths and advocating for nutrition grounded in data. Delve into the interplay of carbs, fats, and essential nutrients for optimal health. Unravel the secrets of satiety and nutrient-dense foods for managing well-being, whether it's diabetes control or weight management. Tune into the discussion here. Maximizing nutrition: nutrient-dense diets with Marty Kendall | Hava Podcast #5
https://youtu.be/-rzlm4b8fmA?feature=shared

https://forum.lowcarber.org/showpos...7&postcount=570

I decided to look into HAVA, just because I'm curious. I went through all the questions and signed up for the free 7 days. You had to give a credit card number because unless you cancel by the end of 7 days, you're charged for the next installment (not sure what it was). Unfortunately, something went wrong right at the end. My card was charged $1 holding fee, but my account was not set up. If I tried to log in, it said there was no account.

That was last Wednesday, the 27th. I immediately reached out to the customer support on Diet Doctor (since that was the starting point for creating an account) and only got the response that they would contact me within 2 or 3 days. It's now been 5 days. Even if they fix it now, I only have 2 more days of the free trial. I'd go in now and cancel the recurring payment, but it says there's no account there. Grrrrr.

I can contact support again, but not sure it will help. Not impressed with the rollout.

Maybe message through the Hava FB page? Sure they will credit you the free days offered. https://www.facebook.com/joinhava.co

Thanks. I'll try that.

Answers to all the questions about Satiety Per Calorie you have…but we’re afraid to ask. If you can’t seem to lose weight, or worse, can't maintain that weight loss, this Q&A session on video/podcast offers a new path to health.
https://youtu.be/DUeXG48h-sQ?si=3JuDOZBY1TAQjY-U


Who does Dr Ted Naiman admire beside Dr Eenfeldt? Marty Kendall and Dr Gabrielle Lyon There are long standing threads here on all four of these nutrition thought leaders if interested in learning more about their work.

I took a look at Hava, but honestly don't see what it would offer me. I've maintained a membership with DD since it started, and I like the videos and recipes and all the myriad things the site offers. After 20 years of learning to tweak low carb (starting with Atkins), one thing I have definitely figured out is which foods create long lasting satiety. I love vegetables, but digestively have trouble with a great many of them so I always eat them with caution and in smaller amounts.

I have had issues digesting dairy literally since birth, and spent my entire life thinking my biggest issue was dairy. My mother had celiac disease, and I never thought I was affected because I thought dairy was my big problem. About 12 years ago I did some genetic testing and learned I also have the celiac gene, and I did a test that showed I should not eat any gluten OR dairy (due to casein sensitivity). So there's all that.
Through all my experimenting with what I eat, I've found that eggs, meats, limited vegetables, limited full fat dairy (which I mostly have as 2TB frothed half and half in my cappuccino each day) as well as limited cheese, limited nuts, zero grains of any kind and zero sugar....this kind of regimen provides amazing satiety.

I don't know how anyone could eat 98g protein in a day....I can't eat that much. I'm now supplementing with a protein shake each day (egg white protein) that gives me an additional 30g protein on top of the food I eat. Satiety with what I already eat is a major feature of my diet, and I don't get hungry at all for long periods after eating, nor can I eat a lot of volume at one meal.

As I sit here at nearly noon, I haven't yet eaten and my previous day's dinner was at about 6 pm so I'm at the end of 18 hours fasting (not intentional, but each day I generally get a 14 to 16 hour fast between dinner and the next breakfast. This works well for me). At this point I DO feel hunger finally and I'm about to eat my eggs/bacon breakfast. With cappuccino. And this will fuel me beautifully for my workout this afternoon.

Long digression, but much as I like DD and Dr. E and others, I don't see a need to dive into yet another program and try to monitor more stuff. It could get to be too much. I put my food into a little computer program I got about 10 years ago (Perfect Diet Tracker) and I've got all my customized foods entered into it, and it works great for what I want to track and know about my foods. So I'm not really interested in another app.

I do think it's great for newbies who want to get a better handle on things, faster. I wish I'd thought of my shortcut, sooner: getting my geographic DNA reassured me that I was eating like my ancestors

But it took years for me to figure all this out, and a scientific approach with the meter is something I can see as a better informed method of "climbing the carb ladder" as in Atkins.

And I've always embarked on a new plan with 2-3 months of tracking. If I hit a snag on my journey, I'm glad to know there's some high tech assistance out there.

Especially since it was such a game-changer for JEY. And we don't stay the same. I think it's always a moving target

CMCM, like WearBear, you are already at a healthy weight and have found the foods in Atkins that work for you. No need to change anything, DietDoctor is keeping the low carb website as is…it is not going away.

This new program is an option for people who cannot reach or maintain a healthy weight or still have metabolic health issues. Being very low carb, vegetarian, carnivore, or fasting does not work for everyone, so a program that applies a moderate amount of each, focused on satiety, may help. Even Paul Saladino, formerly the Carnivore Doctor for a hot minute, is now flogging an "animal-based" diet, whatever that means. His profile photo shows a bigger pile of fruits and vegetables than I eat in a year. https://www.paulsaladinomd.co/
You already figured out satiety for you, but if someone still has rebound binges, with cycles of losing and gaining, personalized satiety per calorie is something to explore.

You found a tracking program that works for you. I still use Cronometer because it tracks Micronutrients better than any other program, though I must admit that Snap and Track feature of Hava is enticing! One photo of a salad with 10 ingredients and each is entered in the right amounts, results in the usual nutrition data plus a satiety score. I may be swayed by new AI technology.