Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Daily Low-Carb Support > General Low-Carb
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Mon, Nov-13-23, 04:31
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default HAVA- New program from Diet Doctor

A long time in development, but close to launch now. An update from Dr Eenfeldt for those on the waiting list, public launch in New Year:

Quote:
I've been immersed in the world of nutrition and health for over 20 years, and it's never been as exciting as it is now. I’m confident that the whole field is about to dramatically change. Here’s another behind-the-scenes update about Hava and our innovative upcoming product.

We’ve been working on this for almost three years, leveraging what we’ve learned over the past decade or two, as well as radical new insights from world-leading scientists and thought leaders. The launch is imminent, and our amazing team is working tirelessly to meet the deadline. – We’ll invite the first people on our waiting list in about two weeks. – Early next year, we’ll have a major public launch event. We’ll announce the exact date and details soon.

The problem As you probably know, the world is in the middle of a massive epidemic of obesity and metabolic disease. In the US, 93% of adults have poor metabolic health. This drives all our top chronic diseases and diminishes the quality of life for millions of people. Meanwhile, eating better is very hard and very confusing. Most available foods are ultra-processed and low in nutrition. They may be cheap, tasty, and convenient, but they are also potentially addictive and potentially disease-causing. The food industry can’t change. They’ll keep doing what they do because it’s where the profit is. New GLP1 weight loss drugs have gained attention for their effectiveness. However, their benefits disappear if you ever stop taking them, and they come with significant costs and side effects, including muscle loss. They aren't a comprehensive solution for everyone. Simplistic advice like "just eat less" is rarely effective in the long term. To eat less over the long term requires eating better. Current nutrition apps are not very helpful. They are slow and cumbersome and focus mostly on dreary logging of how many calories you eat. They slowly document the problem without really helping you to make better choices. We need something better.

The solution We’ve been benefiting from the insights of many brilliant people. The approach we’re taking has been prepared by the hard work of world-class scientists and thought leaders for many years. I’m very grateful for their support. Amazingly, nobody has yet built a product for it. It’s not really what scientists do. So we took it upon ourselves to do it in our team, and it’s been quite a challenge. It’s taken years of hard work, with countless early days and late nights in the office. It’s been a manic-depressive rollercoaster ride like most startups are, through good months and bad months, through a pandemic and a recession, through reorganizations and having to shrink our team and replace key people, through doubt and sacrifices, through good times and bad times. There are many stories to tell. It’s been tough, sometimes very tough, but it feels to me as if it’s all been worth it. Through it all, our amazing team stays focused on our mission. There is a better way to approach eating better, and we keep designing and building it as we speak. We’ve been working hard to create it for almost three years, and it’s almost ready. We’ll soon show it. We’re making it simple to eat better. We’re not just focusing on eating fewer calories (that’s not very helpful). We’re not just focusing on eating fewer carbs. Avoiding carbs is simple advice, and it works, but it’s far from as effective or flexible as it could be. Personally, I used to believe that low carb was the best way for everyone. Now I know it’s just one way and a great fit for some people. It’s become possible to do something more effective and more flexible. Something that leverages all the best published human intervention studies. Something that could fit well into most people’s lives. We’re focusing on guiding you to better foods. Foods that make you feel full and happy for longer, without eating more than you need. Foods that are more satiating. We can guide you to the satiating foods that you enjoy. Higher #satiety foods. Focusing on restricting calories will soon be obsolete. There’s a way smarter and simpler approach coming. We also implement this in a radically new way, leveraging new and cutting-edge AI technology. I can’t wait to show you. It’s a cliché, but for our niche, this new technology is every bit as game-changing as the iPhone was, and maybe more so.

Every current nutrition app is about to become obsolete. Few people will want to use them much longer. I don’t think that’s hyperbole; it’s just the way it is. This new generative AI technology will eventually be used by everyone, but we aim to be first and to ride this wave to the front of the line. We’ll also combine it with our other radical satiety innovation. Taken together, these two absolute revolutions together make for an even more powerful combination, a potential earthquake in our niche, and as far as we know, nobody else is even working on it yet. I’m really looking forward to showing you.

Our vision. Importantly, this is not primarily a story about technology or science. It’s about what technology and science can do in our lives and how they can help us and the people we care about. In the current food environment, most of us are getting sicker every year and less able to pursue our dreams. To add insult to injury, we get blamed for it and told it’s our own fault. If only we could just “eat less.” It sounds easy, but as we know, it’s not easy today. Imagine a future where it is easy to eat better in a way that you love. Imagine more energy and strength, a better body composition, and more potential to live the life you want. Imagine a world full of people living happier, healthier, and more fulfilling lives. This future is possible, and we’re working hard to make it real. You can join us in this mission; follow Hava here on Facebook for more. If you want early access and if you want to be informed about our rapidly upcoming launch event, sign up for our waiting list here: https://hava.co If you're already signed up, thank you for your support! It means the world to me. Together we can do amazing things.


Before it had a name, they called this a Satiety per Calorie index. I have used similar to lose weight and easily maintain that loss for over three years. High protein (the P:E diet) works well by itself but adding nutrient dense foods (Optimising Nutrition) is the icing on cake (if we ate cake)
The DietDoctor website will remain the same focused on Low Carb.
HAVA will be the very personalized approach to Satiety.

https://www.hava.co/

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Nov-13-23 at 05:05.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Mon, Nov-13-23, 05:51
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,760
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Every current nutrition app is about to become obsolete.


I'm excited! And I think they can back it up.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Sun, Nov-26-23, 04:22
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

HAVA has been showing their Satiety per calorie graphics by both a food type and a diet type.
Recently a list of common low carb foods…the highest to lowest satiety scores. A good visual of how some people can reach goal weight and maintain it on low carb, and others stall, never reach goal, or regain.

Choosing foods for their nutrition and satiety is the key.


Quote:
Using our ~JoinHava satiety scoring algorithm, we rank the predicted satiety effects of various foods from 0 to 100.
Foods scoring 0 make you want to eat a lot and gain weight.
Foods scoring 100 make you want to eat very little and lose weight.
Foods scoring 50 are average. On average, for the day, you may want to try to score around here or a bit higher in order to get a good body composition and stay healthy.

The list

Looking at common low-carb foods, we see that they span the whole range from low to high satiety per calorie:

Salted cashews: 4
Butter: 10
Macadamia nuts: 18
Heavy cream: 20
Avocado: 33
Full-fat cheddar cheese: 35
Salami: 41
Bacon: 44
Raspberries: 56
Ribeye steak: 60
Eggs: 64
Salmon: 67
Top sirloin steak: 75
Chicken breast without skin: 77
Cabbage: 87
Egg whites: 91
Cauliflower: 98

Ultra-processed low-carb cakes, chocolate, cookies, fat-bombs, etc., typically score very low.
All vegetables and leaner proteins score extremely high.
The commonly problematic low-carb foods, according to the satiety scoring, match precisely the foods that are commonly identified as problematic: nuts and dairy (specifically, high-fat dairy).


These samples are on the HAVA Facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/joinhava.co

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Nov-26-23 at 09:13.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Tue, Nov-28-23, 05:29
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

First ever HAVA podcast! Bonus, it is with Dr Ted Naiman and Dr Andreas Eenfeldt.

https://youtu.be/8Js2sj6GEY8?si=uHWpcwEMFkKak49c


Quote:
Transform your grocery shopping with the power of technology!

Andreas Eenfeldt and Ted Naiman discuss the revolutionary 'satiety per calorie' concept in our latest YouTube short. Get a sneak peek into how this tech can make you shop like a nutrition expert. Join us on this journey to redefine healthy eating and get early access to our satiety tools:

https://www.hava.co/


How can vegan and carnivore diets both be successful for weight loss and metabolic health??
Satiety Per Calorie is the answer

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Nov-28-23 at 06:14.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Tue, Nov-28-23, 16:28
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

"Once you learn this, you don't actually necessarily need any app or any tracking or anything, but it's really helpful to have something like this to explain to people and get them on board and get them up to speed as fast as possible with potentially life changing concepts . . . " Dr. Ted Naiman, Hava

Thanks for the link, Janet. I listened Andreas and Ted, and it was a nice introduction to their "tool" yet to be released. The discussion was somewhat painful at times, and Ted is a physician/ engineer, so he's not polished in generating interest or selling, which is what is necessary for Hava now. The quote above stated towards the end of the scripted interview probably should have been removed, as it followed the statement that it will take a long time for people to achieve an improved level of metabolic health, as it does with so many. I hope they do well. I remember when Dr. Westman was starting a business called Heal Clinics, and I was invited to invest and met with him and his team. I've sat through many meetings with technology innovations and startups, and sometimes it's hard to see where things might resonate. I like Ted and Diet Doctor, so I wish them the best with Hava; yet, I'm having a hard time seeing where it might resonate. People want immediate change and feedback. I'm excited to see how they package the tool with services and the price points. Until then, looks like we'll have all the information in early 2024.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Wed, Nov-29-23, 03:14
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,760
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
People want immediate change and feedback.


Actually, they want instant results without effort.

The frantic market in the new GLP-1 antagonists (Wegovy, Mounjaro, etc) tells us all we need to know.

In fairy tales, a great price is always asked for the most powerful magic. All these people celebrating "I'm not hungry!" are going to have to work twice as hard to replace that muscle. And if they are nauseated from the undigested food in their system, that effort will be even less attractive.

Why do we even HAVE these kinds of drugs for diabetes? We know what causes it, and we know what fixes it. All this money for what does not cure... but does enable.

Sure, WLS and the drugs all try for the same thing, which is brute forcing behavior which makes their labs look better. But I no longer see jiggered lab results as having the same impact on health as getting those numbers better from actual nutrition.

Most toddlers go through a fussy stage, and want to fall back on five basic goodies to eat. Part of parenting is getting them to try new things. Some of which they will like.

Thanks to the "let them eat cake" attitude of today's baby food manufacturers, SCURVY has come back. And doctors take forever to diagnose it because they have never heard of it.

If it keeps up, they will put vitamin C in the food and move on to profits.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Wed, Nov-29-23, 15:28
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Actually, they want instant results without effort.

The frantic market in the new GLP-1 antagonists (Wegovy, Mounjaro, etc) tells us all we need to know.

In fairy tales, a great price is always asked for the most powerful magic. All these people celebrating "I'm not hungry!" are going to have to work twice as hard to replace that muscle. And if they are nauseated from the undigested food in their system, that effort will be even less attractive.

Why do we even HAVE these kinds of drugs for diabetes? We know what causes it, and we know what fixes it. All this money for what does not cure... but does enable.

Sure, WLS and the drugs all try for the same thing, which is brute forcing behavior which makes their labs look better. But I no longer see jiggered lab results as having the same impact on health as getting those numbers better from actual nutrition.

Most toddlers go through a fussy stage, and want to fall back on five basic goodies to eat. Part of parenting is getting them to try new things. Some of which they will like.

Thanks to the "let them eat cake" attitude of today's baby food manufacturers, SCURVY has come back. And doctors take forever to diagnose it because they have never heard of it.

If it keeps up, they will put vitamin C in the food and move on to profits.

All true, WB. I believe that Hava is attempting to differentiate themselves from this ferris wheel of dieting by having a tool that won't cause health issues, will not attempt to battle with the food manufacturers, and is simply a mirror to every human identifying those foods that are healthy and satiating for them. Andreas stated as much when he refused to go after the food manufacturers, and that's wise, as we all know, that's been a losing battle. So, why even fight it? Same with the latest weight loss drugs. The full story has yet to be told on the decisions to prescribe and take the GLP-1s. That's the current new shiny toy to make weight loss easy, and that's what most people want. Unfortunately, eating in a way that is metabolically healthy takes some learning where results don't happen overnight, and I'm curious about how people will respond.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Thu, Nov-30-23, 03:36
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,760
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
The full story has yet to be told on the decisions to prescribe and take the GLP-1s. That's the current new shiny toy to make weight loss easy, and that's what most people want.


Just watched a video about a young woman (not even much overweight!) who now has what looks like permanently disabled digestive system.

That's really scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Unfortunately, eating in a way that is metabolically healthy takes some learning where results don't happen overnight, and I'm curious about how people will respond.


I know how people will respond. They will be soothed with metric tons of digital reinforcement that the Food Pyramid is still in operation. They just call it the Mediterranean diet, now.

Still massively pushing plant-based as the ethical and environmental "solution." Which, in practice, is a whole lot of convenience foods. Back in the day, vegans showed off their nut casseroles. (At least they were cooking...)

Now, though, it's all vegan donuts, bean burgers, and soy chicken nuggets.

So things WILL get worse, and something will change. We aren't there yet.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Thu, Nov-30-23, 07:24
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,348
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Actually, they want instant results without effort.

The frantic market in the new GLP-1 antagonists (Wegovy, Mounjaro, etc) tells us all we need to know.
.


This is truly the heart of the problem. No new app is going to work on a large scale if it involves effort, which it will. Also people need to prioritze health over appearance. If all they want is to be thin, who cares how, then quick and easy will continue to be what is most appealing.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Thu, Nov-30-23, 14:47
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
This is truly the heart of the problem. No new app is going to work on a large scale if it involves effort, which it will. Also people need to prioritze health over appearance. If all they want is to be thin, who cares how, then quick and easy will continue to be what is most appealing.

True, unfortunately. I was watching a video podcast this week with Gabrielle Lyon interviewing Dr. Tommy Wood. Given Lyon's new book touting, rightly so, Muscle Centric Medicine, the topic was how lean mass, muscle greatly influences improved metabolic health. The statement made was said in puzzlement, something to the effect of "why are people today so obsessed over fat and BMI when they should be focusing on increasing or maintaining muscle?" Well, I know why they are obsessed over BMI, as this is the scrutiny done every time there's a doctor visit, and people are assessed on their BMI. For fat obsession, it's more nuanced as the reason varies from person to person, but increasing muscle by stressing muscle enables one to favor lean over fat. It just never happens overnight . . .
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Tue, Dec-12-23, 03:33
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Second HAVA videocast is with Stephan Guyenet, PhD.
Obesity and your Brain; Foods, Satiety and Health.

Reviews his 2017 book, The Hungry Brain, and delves into a comprehensive interview, 1hour, 45 minutes! Helps if you read his book, but there is a transcript! https://youtu.be/W4TyG8LKNQY?si=QiSR_cF5BzO-FHyu

He covers the Satiety factors from Protein (most important based on scientific evidence), Energy/Calorie density, Fiber and "palatability", what Hava calls the hedonistic factor… And so much more Stephan supports the HAVA satiety index approach, and mentions that you may not have to include every factor. The P:E result is so dominate, you can lose weight by keeping it simple. For low carbers, Protein percent contributes about 75% of satiety. So protein can work even if that is the only factor you watch, but my overall health improved more by watching nutrients as well. Protein leverage explains how obesity rose dramatically after the introduction of efforts to control cholesterol,

This article explains and includes the Holt Satiety Index Dr Guyenet said had so much influence on his work: https://optimisingnutrition.com/satiety-hunger-code/


Ends the interview with an overview of https://www.redpenreviews.org. Some of the worse scoring books…The Carnivore Code and The Salt Fix.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Dec-12-23 at 10:46.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Sat, Jan-06-24, 11:17
NHSB NHSB is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 948
 
Plan: IF+HP+Cycling+Stillman
Stats: 148/147/130 Female 5’6”
BF:29%/27%/20%-25%
Progress: 6%
Location: New England
Default

I finally downloaded and signed up for the Beta trial of Hava.

I was a bit surprised that it recommends a rather low protein target for me (98g). That turns out to be roughly the midpoint between common “keto” recommendations and the P:E Diet for me. Curious…

It also claims I should be able to lose an average of 1/2 kilo per week. I have never lost fat that quickly. Surprised it seems to be sticking to standard nutritionist talking points.

Has anyone else signed up? Finding it useful?
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Sat, Jan-06-24, 11:52
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Umm, that protein does seem low to me now. Maybe because you don’t need to lose much fat? Marty's starting Macro formula is lower in protein too, I just keep on with what works for me.

I could not sign up for Hava as it required a Google account..or something like that? I tried to fill out their comment form which had 100s of questions ( I exaggerate for effect like Naiman now) think I finished it, but yet to hear back. Likely messed that up too. Foiled by technology.
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Sat, Jan-06-24, 12:03
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,154
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/158/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: Kansas City, MO
Default

Hello, my friends. Just touching base, with a click on a dependable LC source person JEY.

I just learned about DietDoctor's "new" scheme. Think I'll stick with the old one. I appreciate the fact that Eenfeldt wanted to honor his roots in original low-carb recommendations. For now, I plan to keep it simple.

I've kept my subscription to DD all this time, because I believe it was and still is the most reliable diet and nutrition guidance distributed on the web.

Happy New Year to everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Sat, Jan-06-24, 12:51
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Happy New Year, Barbara, Hope you are well!

Dr Eenfeldt is keeping Diet Doctor for the same trusted low carb and keto advice he always offers. They decided to run HAVA, based on a Satiety score on a separate platform. That's where I had a hard time signing up. But since I have a separate member community, two apps, five FB pages and a partridge in a pear tree, I will stay put as well.

I worked out my own Satiety scores using nutrient dense foods and The P:E diet 3+ years ago, nothing has really changed since my success story on DietDoctor July 2022. :hwave:
https://www.dietdoctor.com/succeede...-higher-satiety

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Jan-07-24 at 04:52.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:41.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.