Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16   ^
Old Wed, Mar-01-23, 04:06
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Arielle,
Quote:
No one has given opinion of the study itself.

Check Twitter, you will find data scientists, biochemists, who have already weighed in on the study quality. The MD/PhD/Oxford/Harvard quoted above is Adrian Soto-Mota. Dr Tim Spector, UK food guru, gut scientist, another.

Dr Chris Palmer, author of Brain Energy: "It's not all based on association.
"At physiological levels, erythritol enhanced platelet reactivity in vitro and thrombosis formation in vivo. Finally, in a prospective pilot intervention study (NCT04731363), erythritol ingestion in healthy volunteers (n = 8) induced marked and sustained (>2 d) increases in plasma erythritol levels well above thresholds associated with heightened platelet reactivity and thrombosis potential in in vitro and in vivo studies. "


Dose makes the poison.

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...t-attack-stroke

Quote:
While erythritol naturally occurs in plant foods, artificial erythritol is being consumed in larger amounts.
Nutritionists advise minimizing sugar intake and making safer substitutions.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #17   ^
Old Wed, Mar-01-23, 04:20
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25,581
 
Plan: Primal/P:E
Stats: 171/146/150 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 119%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Default

I wonder if there are lots of well-off paleo(ish) people making their kids erythrotol-sweetened treats, using it in their coffee, etc. It's pretty expensive here, as Doreen mentioned. I'd be a bit worried if I was one of those folks.

I bought some Swerve to try a recipe that wasn't even particularly sweet - it was for Maria Emmeritch's egg white bread. It was more for the texture than the sweetness. Decent recipe, but way too expensive between the powdered egg whites and Swerve. A few months later, the Swerve turned into a solid brick. I had to put it in a coffee grinder. So I won't be buying it again.

My bad sweetener habit is Diet Pepsi. You'll have to tear it out of my cold dead hands.

Other than that, I go through a box of sucralose packets about every other year. I rarely make anything desserty, mainly for cooking. I just wouldn't enjoy a curry, hot Thai coconut dish, BBQ/pulled pork sauce, etc without that hint of sweetness. It's like salt to me in the sense that when it's missing, it doesn't taste right.
Reply With Quote
  #18   ^
Old Wed, Mar-01-23, 04:48
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

Dr Naiman would support your Diet Pepsi habit He allows and uses himself artificial sweeteners if they do not come along with Fat/Calories. Diet Soda, AS in coffee, are OK. Swerve in Keto Cake and Cookies…not allowed. More that it wakes up the Hedonistic appetite than the ton of carbs in those sugar alcohol blends.

If anyone sticks to the Dr Westman/20g TOTAL carb Keto style…you can add about a grain of Swerve. I had the same problem it.. took out Swerve to make Pumpkin Bake for Thanksgiving…a brick! Is a year too long?

Quote:
Dr Westman's advice would limit the amount of any AS used. In his new book, End Your Carb Confusion, P. 244: "Sugar alcohols and other low-carb and no-carb sweeteners, such as erythritol, xylitol, stevia, allulose, and monk fruit, are also permitted, but remember, you do not subtract sugar alcohols on the ADAPT Your Life Diet, so read labels and count the carbohydrates toward your total for the day."


** Swerve has 4g carbs in 1 TEAspoon.
Dr. Naiman's advice and the sugar alcohol carb number does not change if Keto Recipe creators are now using Protein Powder rather than Almond Flour. If the recipe still has butter, nut butter + any AS…it is still junk.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Mar-01-23 at 05:56.
Reply With Quote
  #19   ^
Old Wed, Mar-01-23, 06:13
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
WB

Ideally we should all return to eating clean, like we did before food became chemical concoctions. .

Im with you. You can be the canary in my coalmine. My consumption of "sweets" is far below the 150#/yr sugar consumption and my foods are nearly 100% clean.

Your journey is an inspiration for others.


Thank you 🙏 and it's mutual. Atkins (and this awesome group of people on this board) was the first step on what turned into a literally lifesaving endeavor.

Would you believe that was 20 years ago?
Reply With Quote
  #20   ^
Old Wed, Mar-01-23, 06:52
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Because I was getting my cortisol resistance under control, my appetite was hit and miss. Thanks to reading about JEY’s success with her plan, emphasizing nutrients, I added whey smoothies and got real improvement. (Thank you.)

I have dropped mixes, even Keto ones, in favor of Naked Whey and my homemade touches. This is what made me notice just how much of that mix wasn’t whey protein. Buying the whey protein myself was actually cheaper when we look at nutrition per dollar.

It looks like a bargain because it’s processed into something cheaper and easier, but it’s not the same thing. Even Aldi brand, which had the shortest ingredient list, used multiple sweeteners. I thought at the time it was for the synergistic effect. They could use less of each sweetener and save money. But I’ve since grown more cynical.

If the most expensive part is whey protein, they likely oversweeten with bulk stuff and it’s all “curb appeal.” Binders and emulsifiers, so it mixes up fast with no lumps. Such stuff is now blatantly linked to leaky gut, which the two most popular types were the worst in testing.

I’m convinced my autoimmune comes from leaky gut. Which will happen to anyone, anytime we eat too much stuff that isn’t food. Which might be why my body now has a zero tolerance policy. The way I was advised to eat was so WRONG I didn’t last as long as people who had some ability to get nutrients from it.

I think the US obession with monetizing everything down to the oxygen we breathe contributes greatly to how keto went from “know your macros” kind of low carb to the current festivals of cocoa and nuts and protein blends and artificial sweeteners, which I indulged in myself.

They were useful for DH, though. This approach did help him move to a better appreciation of whole foods that weren’t the bready/starchy stuff we all grew up with. It was worth it to get protein into him, and now it is the fresh foods which draw him.

Some cultures over millennia after millennia adapted to the local foods and can pull the most out of them. Others can’t neutralize the anti-nutrients in plants. I’ve even come to see my condition as one of oxalate overload, as so many autoimmune symptoms match up, and mine did not present or act like one for a long time.

The dose does make the poison. I grew up in a place and time when even a boxed or TV dinner probably held a fraction of the crazy stuff they have come up with. And are, without any sense of restraint, replacing our actual food with more and more of this literally crazy-making stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #21   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 08:01
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

https://youtu.be/pTUWGr9RZ5o

Maria Emmerich and husband evaluate the study.

Hear his evaluation. Detail by detail . A deep dive into erythritol studies.
Reply With Quote
  #22   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 08:48
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

https://youtu.be/cdCPKW6A4wM


Another MD view. A hard look at the facts.

Study at 30 g when in reality consumption generally at 7g.
Our body makes erythritol.
He plans to keep using it.

( I see a lawsuit in the near future. Damaging earnings by makers of erythritol.)

https://youtu.be/4SCaRG3jqS0
Nutrition Made Simple
An MD and phD
Another in depth look at the study and the faults in the study, compared to real life.

Sick people to start with.

Marker of disease in blood but not a causal effect proven.

Tested in lab models, in lab and in mice. Then in small sample of humans: Results are to be decided.

Other studies show BENEFITS.

Need outcome data. Blood test data not included in publication.

Delves into the reaction and the wrong conclusions that is being spewed. The science does not fit these claims.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Thu, Mar-02-23 at 09:01.
Reply With Quote
  #23   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 12:03
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Indeed, check this chart:

Reply With Quote
  #24   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 12:09
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Good chart!!

Here is DeLauer going after the study...
https://youtu.be/yncn0o-OhAU

He immediately points out that high erythritol is a blood marker foreshadowing heart attacks.
Reply With Quote
  #25   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 12:14
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Thank you 🙏 and it's mutual. Atkins (and this awesome group of people on this board) was the first step on what turned into a literally lifesaving endeavor.

Would you believe that was 20 years ago?



Yes, I would believe its been 20 years!!!

My oldest will turn 21 this month. I discovered DANDR in the years just before having him.
Reply With Quote
  #26   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 19:14
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,324
 
Plan: vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

There are mug muffin recipes that contain 30g of erythritol and cookie and other junkfood re-creations that are even worse. We may not eat like that, but there are plenty who do.
Reply With Quote
  #27   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 20:10
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
There are mug muffin recipes that contain 30g of erythritol and cookie and other junkfood re-creations that are even worse. We may not eat like that, but there are plenty who do.


Yes. When I see a recipe that calls for a whole cup of sweetener, does it matter as much what kind we are using?

I noticed the higher content in wine and sake might be balanced out by alcohol's blood thinning effect. If the "sticky cell" effect holds true.

Nobody drinks a liter of soy sauce. And a kilogram of watermelon is 2.2 pounds.

It's entirely possible the artificial sweetener in a cup of coffee is meaningless, while a daily Keto shake or bar is too much. We don't even know how much they are using.

It's stuff like that which is sweetened to the tastebuds of people on the SAD.

Personally I had already dropped such additions because even if such sweeteners were fine with me, the products that use it have other stuff which I know is a problem for me.

That study on artificial binders and emulsifiers, tying it to leaky gut, now looks like a far more likely culprit.

But then we are back to homemade and using less sweetener if we want. I don't use any sweetener in my smoothies. That's what the heavy cream is for
Reply With Quote
  #28   ^
Old Thu, Mar-02-23, 20:34
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,176
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 200/211/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: -30%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Fyi. In a former life , eating a kilo of watermelon 🍉 was a summer past time!! Can u imagine how many ten yr olds polish off a kilo on a summer day??

I've decided to go back to Splenda and use all "AS" judiciously......

Sweets are an occasional thing these days. Rebel ice cream has become too expensive and consequently fell off my grocery list. So no worries there of sucking down a ton of erythritol. Single serving sweets keep the AS very low these days.
Reply With Quote
  #29   ^
Old Fri, Mar-03-23, 04:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,368
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
Default

A clear balanced analysis by Dr Bret Scher, now with Metabolic Mind. Same method used when he was with DietDoctor. His conclusion is to reflect on why you are using artificial sweeteners in the amounts found in 'keto" desserts, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/-s7CvUe4ATI?start=318

His solution is what I have been doing since joined OptimisingNutrition.com. Use real whole foods like mixed berries (Ty Costco) mixed with 0% Fage yogurt, LF cottage cheese, sometimes blend with protein powder (has tiny amount of Sucralose) into amazing "ice cream", etc.
No "low carb" cookies, brownies, breads, etc. If you eat satiating, nutrient dense foods, no need for sweeteners in the ridiculous amounts added to recipes.
Reply With Quote
  #30   ^
Old Fri, Mar-03-23, 04:51
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

For me the key to changing the way I eat has been changing my attitude towards food. I prioritize my health when deciding what to eat rather than prioritizing the pleasure that the food will bring me. The pleasure derived from eating something is always only short-lived whereas the health derived from eating nutrient dense foods is a long term effect. This does not mean I do not derive any pleasure from eating tasty food. It simply means that before experiencing the pleasurable taste of any food I make sure that it is a health promoting food rather than something that might taste good but is actually toxic to the body. Combining this attitude with an attitude of better safe than sorry I do not use any artificial sweeteners. Also, as anyone who has eaten low carb for a while knows, tastes change and the craving for sweetness diminishes the longer we don't consume sweet foods. What once we might have craved becomes something that we no longer desire.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:00.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.