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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-21, 13:23
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,471
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
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If we consider addiction to sweet things (or an addiction to anything, for that matter), as being like a kind of "pull" mechanism, then to simply "push" back directly against that mechanism alone may not be enough. It can also help to find another "pull" to focus on instead, to such an extent that may help with pushing away from the present issue. After all, you can try to push something away for a while, but without a focused alternative direction, how do you know you're making any progress with your attempt to escape the addiction at all?

For me, it wasn't just about stopping the sweet stuff, it was also about overcoming the fear of other things like fatty meats etc, foods that I'd been taught for literally decades would have been the end of me. Who'd have thought it would instead turn out to be only the beginning?

In short: abandon the sweet, embrace the savoury.
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  #17   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-21, 15:15
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,154
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/158/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
In short: abandon the sweet, embrace the savoury.
You are so right, Grav. We have to find substitute things to love--not just substitute sugars.

I had a long visit with my friend today. She's a veteran of many rounds with Weight Watchers. We spent some of the time pulling stuff out of her fridge to read the Nutrition Facts labels. She was totally unacquainted with anything but counting calories. She was astonished to find out how many products she thought were diet-friendly were, in fact, based on SUGAR.

Especially (OMG!) she pulled out a box of Atkins Bars. Would you believe the FIRST ingredient on the nutrition list was: Maltitol. The second? Dextrose. We're deep into sugar and haven't even got to the list of other chemicals.

She has a learning curve ahead in more ways than one. But oh, the shock of finding out that what she has believed and followed for-EVER is...wrong.

Let's hope she feels better quickly when she gets going on the right track.

Last edited by bkloots : Fri, Oct-22-21 at 17:30.
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  #18   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-21, 15:16
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grav
For me, it wasn't just about stopping the sweet stuff, it was also about overcoming the fear of other things like fatty meats etc, foods that I'd been taught for literally decades would have been the end of me. Who'd have thought it would instead turn out to be only the beginning?

In short: abandon the sweet, embrace the savoury.

This is an important point, Grav. Being able to find healthy substitutes for many addictions is often difficult to impossible, for example opiates or alcohol. For food, healthy substitutes are available to enable the "push" to be more effective. Well stated.
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  #19   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-21, 16:20
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,348
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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For me it wasn't really finding substitutes for sugar. It was more a total reassessment of how I was eating and what would constitute a healthier way of eating going forward so that I would no longer experience the hunger inducing cravings that sugar and other high carb foods induced. What I needed and what I found was a total re-education concerning what constituted heathy eating and eliminated the ravenous hunger that my high carb diet was causing.
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Oct-22-21, 17:39
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,154
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/158/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
a total re-education concerning what constituted heathy eating
Yes, this too. When I told my friend that fruit was at the bottom of the list, she said, "But fruit is healthy!" Ye-e-e-es...but...carbohydrates. When she announced her very healthy supper: "Half a baked yam, acorn squash with butter....Those are healthy, right??" Um....carbohydrates.

So, yes. Un-learning a lifetime of "healthy eating" is a challenge all by itself.
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  #21   ^
Old Sun, Oct-24-21, 03:08
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,760
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Un-learning a lifetime of "healthy eating" is a challenge all by itself.


It gives me sympathy for those not immersed in it as many of us tend to be. It's complicated. Different foods have "celebrity profiles" that are nothing more than a press release from marketers.

A baked potato is the peak of healthy. Fruit is candy that is good for you! Any vegetable is "better" than any meat, full stop.
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  #22   ^
Old Sun, Oct-24-21, 06:07
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 5,348
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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I have never been able to convince anyone to change how they eat over the long term. They may try to change for a short few weeks but then they revert back to habit and these are people who have asked for my assistance and to whom I have given the necessary educational resources to support healthy choice. I think they may see me as being different in some fundamental way from themselves, even though they know I once weighed twice as much as I do now. They don't believe they can give up x,y,z or have some external excuse why changing the way they eat is impossible. To me it is all very sad.

There was a family wedding this weekend that I did not attend. My cousin posted pictures on Facebook and most everyone in the pictures is fat to some degree or other including one cousin who I briefly mentored and who was very enthusiastic for a few weeks and then seemingly forgot about it all, taking several of my books with her, probably all now lost in her move across the country from the east coast to the west coast. Health is fundamental. I value long term health over perceived short term pleasure. Perceived short term pleasure from eating is very short term. At best it rapidly disappears until the next fix. The long term benefits of health do not diminish over time. Yes, we age, that's unavoidable but while we are aging we can support our health or undermine it. It's our choice.
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Oct-24-21, 06:50
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,154
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/158/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 82%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Quote:
I think they may see me as being different in some fundamental way from themselves,
Yes, my friend attributes to me super-powers of self-discipline. I've invited her to make a three-month commitment: no more. She's smart, but more important, desperate. If she drops as much as two pounds in that time (a mere smidgen of her hopes!) I'll give her enthusiastic support.

But...patience never came in a box.

With that, I'm off to lower my "current weight" by one wonderful exciting achievement: one pound (not counting the tenths!)
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  #24   ^
Old Sun, Oct-24-21, 08:06
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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I define "substitute" as something satisfying that I now eat instead of previously eating something unhealthy. Dumping sugar, bread, and other stuff was never about finding healthy similar things, as that's a mistake I see many first-time low carbers make; rather, it was about eating something that would diminish the desire to eat a lot (uncontrolled at times) and at the same time improve health.
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-21, 08:37
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,760
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
I define "substitute" as something satisfying that I now eat instead of previously eating something unhealthy. Dumping sugar, bread, and other stuff was never about finding healthy similar things, as that's a mistake I see many first-time low carbers make; rather, it was about eating something that would diminish the desire to eat a lot (uncontrolled at times) and at the same time improve health.


I'm working with DH on upping his own game about substituting. He has to move in slower steps, because he's more sensitive to the fact that it can wind up very far away from the original
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-21, 08:49
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,065
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I'm working with DH on upping his own game about substituting. He has to move in slower steps, because he's more sensitive to the fact that it can wind up very far away from the original

It's definitely a process that's got a bit of trial and error. Having you provide the guidelines is going to make a big difference, and patience in making course corrections is going to win the day.
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  #27   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-21, 10:47
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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Barb, I know you like DietDoctor articles. Just arrived, the Complete Guide to Sugar. Includes video on addiction.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/sugar
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  #28   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-21, 14:19
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 19,283
 
Plan: atkins, carnivore 2023
Stats: 225/224/163 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 2%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I have never been able to convince anyone to change how they eat over the long term. They may try to change for a short few weeks but then they revert back to habit and these are people who have asked for my assistance and to whom I have given the necessary educational resources to support healthy choice.

.



A friend was recently given a " diet" based on no salt and low fat SAD by her doctor. She doesn't eat much meat, but mostly veg and starches. She eats SAD in small portions , literally 3oz of meat, and IS loosing weight, eating three meals plus a snack if she wants.

I encourage her on the diet because it is working, down 20# . Her stomach doesn't hurt any more though she is still waiting for eval of esophagus and sphincter area.

The encouragement includes changing eating program for life. While her overall food is not ideal, her dinner is spot on keto. Clean meats with a veg. She is checking out new recipes, using AS that she bought. Hoping small changes will bring her to fewer starches.

When she asks about going low carb , with anxiety, I reassure her that she cannot go low carb while on a low fat diet. She needs enough calories, so stick to the doctor given diet.

She is interested and engaged. So I'm hoping she will make wise choices when she is feeling better and high blood pressure is down. I won't push her to do counter to doctor's orders, but hoping with a few good YouTube resources she can see doctors that have a different view point on SAD diet.

Whatever changes she makes, the bottom line is pick a diet she can live with long term. Going back to SAD is deadly. Still working on getting her to see that.
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  #29   ^
Old Mon, Oct-25-21, 19:41
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,878
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
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It's funny, but with hunger training all food tastes pretty damn good. Even something as minor as shredded sharp cheddar on a salad tastes out of this world. Treat takes on a new meaning when you're hungry.
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  #30   ^
Old Tue, Oct-26-21, 03:46
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is online now
Posts: 13,500
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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I know. Someone asked about my potassium intake, so I looked back to the 6 week Nutrient Optimization class report, and one of the biggest contributors was a mackerel, eggs, egg white and spinach dish…I never even ate mackerel before, much less like it enough to eat multiple days. It's a long road from a chocolate muffin in the morning to craving the nutrients in mackerel.
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