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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-21, 08:30
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,722
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
“Lowering cholesterol needs to be relegated to division four of the league of tackling heart disease, because for 99 per cent of the population total levels of cholesterol, and so-called ‘bad’ LDL cholesterol, has almost no value at all in predicting whether or not someone is going to have a heart attack – therefore we should stop obsessing about lowering it,” he said.

“I understand why they became so popular: of all the drugs out there for managing patients with heart disease or those who have already had a heart attack, statins had the highest benefit compared to aspirin or anything else.

Dr Malhotra counters: “We’ve now got real-world data from the last three decades that show statins have not reduced death rates from heart disease at all. For those with heart disease, taking a statin every day for five years results in a 1 in 39 chance of preventing a non-fatal heart attack and a 1 in 83 chance of delaying death.

“If you look at groups of people taking statins from all the trials, the overall extension of life span in people with heart disease if someone religiously took a statin every day for five years, without getting side effects, is just over four days. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it?"

Now we're getting somewhere. The impact of statins must be truthfully reported without relying on the terribly inaccurate relative risk numbers calculated during the drug trials.

Quote:
"Dr Malhotra, 43, argues this has introduced an “illusion of protection” for the public who think they can carry on eating junk food as long as their cholesterol levels remain low and they take statins – as well as for a medical profession that largely ignored the benefits of an improved lifestyle on heart health."

What patients must understand is that our physicians are not thoroughly trained on the benefits/ impacts of lifestyle on health. Even with minimal training, most would not know how to advise their patients on how to practice a healthy lifestyle that is successful. Today, they are trained on the benefits of pharmaceuticals and there's typically a solution for every symptom of Metabolic Syndrome. We end up treating side effects without knowing the root cause.
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  #17   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-21, 08:42
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,650
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 324.0/210.0/174.0 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Southern Colorado, USA
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A huge part of it is that treating something with drugs is, on the surface, deterministic. Person A has X, have them take drug Y. Treating something with diet/lifestyle is a lot more problematic because so few people actually adhere to any diet/lifestyle recommendations. Compliance with a drug therapy is much, much higher than compliance with diet/lifestyle recommendations.
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-21, 08:54
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,933
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbahn
A huge part of it is that treating something with drugs is, on the surface, deterministic. Person A has X, have them take drug Y. Treating something with diet/lifestyle is a lot more problematic because so few people actually adhere to any diet/lifestyle recommendations. Compliance with a drug therapy is much, much higher than compliance with diet/lifestyle recommendations.


This is unfortunately so true. One of the people who asked for my help with diet a few years ago because she wanted to lose weight and had diabetes was never able to change how she ate. She is now on insulin. It's very sad. One of her favorite pastimes is cooking, often sweet desserts.
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  #19   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-21, 12:15
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,722
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbahn
A huge part of it is that treating something with drugs is, on the surface, deterministic. Person A has X, have them take drug Y. Treating something with diet/lifestyle is a lot more problematic because so few people actually adhere to any diet/lifestyle recommendations. Compliance with a drug therapy is much, much higher than compliance with diet/lifestyle recommendations.

Good observation. It is much easier to take a pill than to change one's approach to life. Much simpler as well, and people gravitate towards simplicity. I'd venture to say that some of us who have benefited in health from lifestyle changes think it's simple, but it took discovery and commitment at first before any positive changes over time provided an incentive to continue. That's the difficult stage to overcome. Lifestyle changes may have a better adherence rate when it's self discovered and self managed rather than being recommended by a third party, like a doctor.
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-21, 13:30
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Posts: 13,516
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbahn
Compliance with a drug therapy is much, much higher than compliance with diet/lifestyle recommendations.


Because they think the drug "fixes" them. They don't think they need to do anything else.

Or, they pretend to. Because it's much easier.
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Aug-19-21, 14:33
wbahn's Avatar
wbahn wbahn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,650
 
Plan: Atkins-ish, post-WLS
Stats: 324.0/210.0/174.0 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
Location: Southern Colorado, USA
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I don't think that thinking that it fixes them is so much the issue, not nearly as much as the simple fact that behavioral change is, in general, very hard for most people. That's especially true for significant changes that must be adhered to pretty faithfully for extended periods of time.
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Sep-09-21, 10:57
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,611
 
Plan: Facultative Carnivore
Stats: 212/183/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 69%
Location: Rural Maine
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My husband was put on statins for no good reason. His lipid panel was just fine. The practice we go to is a bit statin crazy. Anyway, he was put on the generic for Lipitor at first, but had dibilitating joint pain, so I told him to ask for the generic for Crestor, which is water soluble and so doesn't build up in your system.

He was on it for less than a week and then started complaining about horribly violent dreams, like he was murdering someone or someone was murdering him. He said it went on all night long, and this from a guy who has NEVER remembered his dreams.

Then one night I could tell he was dreaming because he was jerking and tightening his muscles like he was running and/or fighting someone. I sat up in bed and gently held and stroked his upper arms to see if he would calm down and come out of the dream. Before I knew what was happening, he grabbed me by my upper arms and threw me forcibly down on the bed! He woke up and saw the utter shock on my face and realized what had happened. That's when he said, "No more statins." The next morning he called his doctor, explained what happened, and said he wasn't taking them anymore. The doc agreed and hasn't mentioned it since.
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  #23   ^
Old Thu, Sep-09-21, 17:09
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Posts: 9,903
 
Plan: LC/HiProtein
Stats: 195/165/150 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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I was a new customer with my last doctor (now retired). I suppose he was a competent physician, but not one I appreciated. For my check-ups, he came in the room, made the usual cordial greeting, then sat down with his eyes glued on the laptop screen.

He went down the checklist--finally said my lipid numbers were not good, and he'd prescribe a statin. I believe that "prescribe statin" is on the checklist for people of a certain age, regardless. I said no thank you.

I know why my lipid panel is wonky, and always has been. Nothing else in my history or behavior indicates a threat to my heart. I've had a calcium screening and came up with a healthy zero.

Husband's doctor said the same thing. Same answer.
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  #24   ^
Old Thu, Sep-09-21, 20:21
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 15,890
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
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I appreciate all that contribute their experiences. Prepares me for when that day arrives when doc wants to prescribe a statin. One word. "No"
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