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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 12:21
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default Marty Kendall's Data-Driven Fasting

Since I've been hearing a lot about Marty Kendall's Data-Driven Fasting approach around here lately, I thought it would be good to have a place to discuss it. I looked for other threads, but couldn't find any (doesn't mean I didn't miss them).

Rob (GRB5111) summed up the approach nicely (taken from another thread in the General Low-Carb section):
Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
DDF is not a radical fasting approach; rather, you literally eat to the meter (as Dr. Bernstein recommends). You start with a 3-day benchmarking exercise by measuring your blood glucose first thing in the morning (to gauge the dawn phenomenon) and then right before and an hour after each meal. He provides you with a spreadsheet to record the data, and using your data from the first 3 days, it helps you find when it's time to eat (based on your BG which tracks your personal hunger threshold). After that you check your BG just before meal time, and if it's higher than your hunger threshold, you wait until it becomes within the threshold before eating. This trains your body to know when you're truly hungry and helps to lower both personal hunger and personal fat thresholds. Several people on this forum have participated in the DDF Challenge and have had excellent results. The next DDF challenge starts on March 6.
......

One of the reasons I like Marty Kendall is that he uses Ted Naiman's P:E Diet approach to achieving better health. It's a very analytical approach to nutrition that emphasizes increased healthy protein, healthy vegetables and micro-nutrients, a reduced emphasis on fats (in other words, keto with a realistic approach), and elimination of unhealthy manufactured fats from seeds. Increasing my protein consumption and reducing my fat consumption to only what rides with the foods I eat a couple years ago helped me tremendously.


The home page is here: https://www.datadrivenfasting.com/home

I'm still on the fence on whether to do the next DDF challenge starting on March 6, but I have started doing the 3-day baselining of blood glucose readings. I look forward to hearing what others think of the program.
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 12:28
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

To start this off, I've finished the first day of baselining and am into my second day. My BG doesn't seem to move much so far. Below is a summary of my test results and what I ate yesterday.

Please note that this is absolutely NOT how I typically eat. I rarely make stew, make biscuits, or eat Ritz crackers. This was kind of a test to see how my BG readings might change after eating way more carbs than I usually eat (today I'm back to how I normally eat, and will report that tomorrow). I do indulge in a glass or two of wine or whiskey fairly often, though I've been cutting down lately.

Waking: 96
1 1/2 mugs of black coffee
Before breakfast: 111
1 cup 2% Greek yogurt (plain)
After breakfast: 98
Before lunch (no snack today): 94
8 oz burger, 2 eggs fried
After lunch: 91
Before snack: 94
7 Ritz crackers with spreadable cheese, glass of wine
After snack: 95
Before dinner: 95
Guinness stew, biscuit, glass of wine
After dinner: 102

As near as I can figure, here are my macros for yesterday:

Calories: 2,384
Fat: 138 g
Carbs: 91 g
Protein: 155 g

I was surprised that BG rose so much after having black coffee, more so even than after a dinner of stew, a biscuit, and a glass of wine (preceded by the Ritz crackers!).

Oh, and strangely enough, I was down a pound this morning. Go figure!

Last edited by BawdyWench : Fri, Feb-19-21 at 12:40.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 12:54
lowjax's Avatar
lowjax lowjax is offline
Posts: 8,931
 
Plan: Paleo-ish
Stats: 265/234.5/199 Male 5' 5"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: The Land of Cheese
Default

Thanks for posting this. I'm interesting to see how this goes for you. I have been looking a bit at the P:E and am intrigued as to how this works. Not sure I want to keep poking my fingers though.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 12:57
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

That's what I thought at first too (poking fingers), but after reading the book more carefully, you really only do that for the first 3 days to get a baseline. After that, you only test BEFORE your meals, not after, and if your BG is not below your baseline, you put off eating until it is. You can test again in 30 - 60 minutes. He says that after a while you'll get to know the difference between appetite (your BG is still above baseline) and true hunger (your BG is below baseline, indicating that all the glycogen is depleted from your liver).

And when I do eat, I try to follow Naiman's guidelines. For me, that's at least 132 g protein, no more than 65 g fat, and no more than 65 g carbs. Yesterday was an anomoly.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 13:09
lowjax's Avatar
lowjax lowjax is offline
Posts: 8,931
 
Plan: Paleo-ish
Stats: 265/234.5/199 Male 5' 5"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: The Land of Cheese
Default

Thanks for the info. Is there a calculator for Naiman's guidelines online? That will be a bit of a switch for me. I am usually around 65% Fat, 40% Protein. Averages out to about 120 grams each of F & P. That would mean I have to cut back on my cheese....
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 13:26
lowjax's Avatar
lowjax lowjax is offline
Posts: 8,931
 
Plan: Paleo-ish
Stats: 265/234.5/199 Male 5' 5"
BF:
Progress: 46%
Location: The Land of Cheese
Default

I should have googled before posting. I found this online:

Protein >= "Your Target Weight"
Energy (Fats/Carbs combined) <= "Protein"

That would work out to roughly:
Protein: 175
Fat: 125
Carb: 50

That isn't a whole lot different. I need to up my protein a bit and lower my fat/up my carbs. Not sure I want to up my carbs yet. Will think about it.

Interesting site: https://burnfatnotsugar.com/index.html
I think this may be Naiman's own site?

Last edited by lowjax : Fri, Feb-19-21 at 13:45.
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 14:12
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Yup, that's him too.

I don't go as high on carbs as the calculator says. Somewhere on one of his sites it says fat and carbs should each be half the amount of protein in grams. So for you it would be more like 175 g protein, 87 g fat, and 87 g carbs.

In this same section of the forum is a whole thread on Naiman that includes all his various websites.

Last edited by BawdyWench : Fri, Feb-19-21 at 14:25.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 15:10
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,886
 
Plan: DDF (2021 Q2)
Stats: 168/93/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 87%
Default

i plan on joining the next. following NO MAster class now. too much for me. good tools, too much work.
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Feb-19-21, 15:11
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Boy, you said it! I signed up for the DDF and I'm now trying to enter all my info from yesterday and keep messing it up!
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Feb-20-21, 11:50
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,662
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Per Thud's comment, DDF compared to NO is not as much work. As you said, Bawdy, the 3-day baseline data collection is a lot, but after that, it's not as high maintenance while you're training yourself and adjusting your personal hunger and personal fat thresholds by eating to the meter. It's also something that you can revisit anytime to check in on your status of BG and meal timing. As mentioned, I like the combination of Naiman and Kendall and have learned much from both.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Feb-21-21, 05:17
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

The Challenge app site has been down since yesterday afternoon, at least for me. I've posted on the FB page that it's down, but no one else has mentioned it so maybe it's just me. I've tried in using Microsoft Edge, Chrome, and on my phone. No luck.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Feb-21-21, 08:13
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: P:E/DDF/LC-DrWestman
Stats: 225/157/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/29%/25%
Progress: 121%
Location: NC
Default

Logout, then log in again. Logout by following this link: app.datadrivenfasting.com/logout
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Feb-21-21, 08:14
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

I've logged out and back in dozens of times since yesterday, using the Logout button under my username profile thingy. I can't even get in at the moment.
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Feb-21-21, 08:16
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
Default

Wait. Putting that address in, I got to the sign-in page again. I'll have to remember this! THANK YOU!!!

Nope. After entering my email address and password, I again get the "Oops" screen.
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Feb-21-21, 08:19
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: P:E/DDF/LC-DrWestman
Stats: 225/157/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/29%/25%
Progress: 121%
Location: NC
Default

Alex was working on it...Try using the website for now
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