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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 13:53
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Default Fast Mimicking Diet

Im hoping for a discussion on what constitutes a fast mimicking diet. The photo image presented in lecture below gives an idea, but no specifics beyond a 1400 calorie count.

A TED talk presented a few years ago.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dVArDzYynYc

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Mon, Aug-03-20 at 16:27.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 15:33
Zei Zei is offline
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I looked at something several years ago showing an idea of Longo's fasting mimicking diet's contents. As near as I recall from so long ago it was low in calories but high in carbohydrate. Not sure what that's about, as I wouldn't think of something raising insulin levels as mimicking fasting. I would think maybe something more like Dr. Atkin's fat fast from way back when would be more like mimicking a fast but with some food than insulin raising carbs.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 16:25
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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I heard Dr. Longo on NPR on the Diane Rehm show a few years ago and his ideas were certainly interesting. I'm not sure what benefits the FMD has over just actual fasting. In fact one thing I read was that one of the reasons Longo even came up with the FMD was because he couldn't get any funding to do research on actual fasting, but was able to get funding for studies on fasting mimicking.

His FMD plan appears to be completely Vegan. I don't know if that's a requirement, or just based on his own personal preferences.

I'm quite a fan of Mark Sisson's and here is his take on the FMD:
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/doe...up-to-the-hype/ I did find a macro breakdown of Longo's plan at Mark;s link:
Quote:
The 5-day FMD is a low-protein, high-moderate-carb, moderate-fat diet.

The first day is 1090 calories, with 10% from protein (27 grams), 56% from fat (68 grams), and 34% from carbohydrates (93 grams).

The next four days are 725 calories, with 9% protein (16 grams), 44% fat (35 grams), and 47% carbohydrates (85 grams).

Most of the fat is polyunsaturated and monounsaturated. The protein is plant-based. The carbs come from nuts, seeds, legumes, and grains.

He even came up with a shelf-stable package of FMD food called ProLon. Instead of weighing and measuring your carrots and mac nuts and olives, you could just buy the 5-day supply of dry food and be on your merry way.


Mark is a big fan of Longo and his research but seems to feel there are more ways to improve your health than this one. If you want to purchase Longo's plan it's also about $250 for the 5-day supply. I *think* you may need to get it through a doctor also. But this site gives you a cheaper option for a DIY version of the FMD:
https://foodzie.com/2392/fasting-mi...do-it-yourself/

Longo's plan is higher in carbs that many here follow, but it's still quite low by SAD standard, since of course the calorie count is long - as I recall something like 70-90g carbs daily.

I've been playing around with actual fasting lately. To me it actually seems easier to eat *nothing* than to eat a very restricted amount of calories!
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 16:26
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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H?mmmmm

Recently heard that protein is the kicker. Perhaps without protein that leaves only fats and carbs.....???
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 16:30
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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~Merpig, Haha, I was hoping for a short cut as Im struggling with even a fast day.

Perhaps the Fat Fast might also work.
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 16:33
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Merpig Merpig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
H?mmmmm

Recently heard that protein is the kicker. Perhaps without protein that leaves only fats and carbs.....???
I just updated my previous post with more info about the macronutrient ratio. The protein is pretty low and I've heard that too much protein will kick you out of fasting mode.

Carbs are highish but not super high. I don't know if there is a specific reason for that carb number, or if it's chosen just because of the standard fear of fat, so trying to keep fats lower would imply carbs higher.

I think some of the comments at Mark's site reference Dr. Atkins's Fat Fast which might be similar except, of course, much higher in fat and lower in carbs. But the calorie count seems similar between the Atkins and Longo fasts.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 16:36
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
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Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
~Merpig, Haha, I was hoping for a short cut as Im struggling with even a fast day.

Perhaps the Fat Fast might also work.
I'm been doing fast days for a couple months now, but it actually seems to be harder now rather than easier.I'm fasting today (after gaining nearly 5 pounds on two consecutive eating days) and so far doing okay but it's not as easy as it was a couple months ago when I started it. I'm toying with the idea of the Fat Fast too which I find more appealing that Longo's FMD. But then again veganism doesn't appeal to me at all.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Aug-03-20, 18:17
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Oddly, when I tried fasting for one day at a time, over about 3 weeks , the 7 days seemed easy.

I,m thinking a couple things.

Perhaps a succesful fast begets another fast and another.

I keep going back to this nugget of info: protein level is the driver of the regenerative process. Perhaps why frank fasting also works.

Honestly, I ate salads from the garden and totally skipped the bother of cooking meat. LAZY and too hot in the kitchen. This happened two times. SND both times the scale moved DOWN.

That it happened once is a coincidence. TWICE has me thinking and looking for why?

Only working theory: meat adds fat calories.

Sorry, I digress. Added as it might fit in the fast mimicking diet somehow.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 04:19
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Fast mimicking sounds like calorie restriction? Which I know has been extensively studied -- in mice -- and people find it almost impossible to stick to.

I read interviews with a journalist several years ago where they found a small group devoted to it, but the writer was not impressed by their scary "greenish" skin tone and lack of energy. And the whole thing had a serious eating disorder vibe to me.

Anecdotally, Atkins Fast Fasters are pleased with results, and the science -- fat doesn't cause insulin to rise -- is solid still. I think it might work best when people are over their carb flu and more set up to actually burn fat. I don't think it was for Induction, but for stalls.
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 07:03
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BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
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I think there are or can be many different definitions of fasting mimicking diet. When I was looking into this a few years ago, it was a general idea rather than someone's specific plan with lots of rules. In general, it was sort of like alternate-day fasting, which allows 500 or so calories with no indication of how you "spend" those calories.

I don't know about any of you, but after being in the low-carb world since the mid 1990s, I'm getting so annoyed by these so-called experts with all their rules, and if you don't follow each and every esoteric rule exactly, well, then it's your fault if it doesn't work.

When I was using homeopathic hcg back in 2011, I remember posting on an hcg forum that I had 3 oz of very lean pork and steamed green beans for dinner one night. Oh my goodness! It was like I was advocating child abuse or something. Dr. Simeons said NO PORK, so why was I having pork? Dr. Simeons said NO GREEN BEANS, so why was I having that? They said I would be doomed to failure if I didn't follow every tiny dictate. You couldn't use hand lotion or moisturizer. You couldn't eat tuna packed in water. Oh, and homeopathic hcg simply would not work; you had to do the injections to be successful. The rules were endless. I ignored most of them and lost 35 pounds in just shy of 4 months.

Seems I got a bit off topic there. I remember in one of Gary Taubes's books he wrote that some people might be able to lose the weight they can, but not the weight they want. He was saying that no matter what some people do, they are physically incapable of dropping enough body fat to get to what some would consider a "healthy" weight. I remember reading that and feeling like I should just give up because I'm probably one of those people. Sad day.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 07:48
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Fast mimicking sounds like calorie restriction? Which I know has been extensively studied -- in mice -- and people find it almost impossible to stick to.

I read interviews with a journalist several years ago where they found a small group devoted to it, but the writer was not impressed by their scary "greenish" skin tone and lack of energy. And the whole thing had a serious eating disorder vibe to me.

Anecdotally, Atkins Fast Fasters are pleased with results, and the science -- fat doesn't cause insulin to rise -- is solid still. I think it might work best when people are over their carb flu and more set up to actually burn fat. I don't think it was for Induction, but for stalls.



In the information in the link above, the low calorie day was not an everyday occurance. My understanding was it was scheduled periodicly. If it was a restricted diet everyday, it wouldnt work for me definitely, nor most people.

FAT FAST per Atkins is almost doable for me. Psycholically, 6 very small meals was a perception problem. But you are right, it was based on real experience.

The Fast Mimicking Diet linked in first post is also based on a study. First using mice, and then humans.
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 09:45
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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I borrowed Longo's book from the library a few years ago, mostly to read his views and related research on ageing and inflammation.

Here are my takeaway notes from the book, "The Longevity Diet: Discover the New Science Behind Stem Cell Activation and Regeneration to Slow Aging, Fight Disease, and Optimize Weight" .. by Dr. Valter Longo
Quote:
1. The FMD™ (fast mimicking diet) is a short-term protocol lasting 5 days. It's meant to be done intermittently .. 2 - 3 times a year up to once a month (Longo's own practice, IIRC)

2. the protocol is vegan/plant-based .. and he's strongly anti sat-fat from animals. So no eggs, dairy or meats. Mostly veggies and nuts.

3. it's very low in protein .. max. 25g on Day 1 and almost nil on Days 2 to 5
Day 1 - 25g plant-based protein from legumes, nuts ........ Days 2 to 5 - low to no protein


Day 1- 1,100 Calories
500 cal complex carbs (veggies, pulses)
500 cal healthy fats (nuts, olive oil)
100 cal protein (25g) from plants
1 multi, 1 Omega 3, unsweetened tea (especially herbals and green), unlimited water.

Days 2 to 5 - 800 calories
400 cal. complex carbs
400 cal healthy fats
1 multi, 1 omega 3, tea, water

Day 6 - Transition with mostly complex carbs .. may have small amount of non-gluten grain/cereal such as quinoa or rice, potato, pulses, fish

Also suggests 3 meals a day, or two and a snack .. within a 12-hour window (TRE : time restricted eating)

Activity during FMD™ is limited to brisk walking every day, taking the stairs instead of elevator etc .. but no strenuous weight-lifting or marathon runs

His every-day "lifestyle" diet, ie The Longevity Diet, is mostly plant-based, but no added sugar, no wheat, corn or gluten. If you are below the age of 65, keep protein intake low (0.31 to 0.36 grams per pound of body weight). That comes to 40 to 47 grams of protein per day for a person weighing 130 pounds, and 60 to 70 grams of protein per day for someone weighing 200 to 220 pounds. Over age 65, you should slightly increase protein intake by increasing consumption of fish, eggs, white meat, and dairy products derived from goats and sheep to preserve muscle mass. Consume beans, chickpeas, green peas, and other legumes as your main source of protein.

Apparently the FMD™ protocol is available as a pre-packaged "diet in a box" .. for a huge fee, although supposedly all proceeds go to a research charity (overseen by Longo himself).
Here's a review of the packaged ProLon diet .. https://www.statnews.com/2017/06/13...n-fasting-diet/. She gives some detail of what's included in the box, including photos

.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 10:56
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JEY100 JEY100 is online now
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Plan: P:E/DDF/LC-DrWestman
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A short quote from a new entry in the Fasting world, Data-Driven Fasting on the difference:

Quote:
The ​Fast Mimicking Diet​ attempts to provide a small amount of nutrients and reduced protein during a multi-day fast. Developed by Valter Longo, the FMD stems from a plant-based belief system where animal protein is bad.

Data-Driven Fasting is more like a ​Protein Sparing Modified Fast​, which prioritises ​adequate protein and more nutrients per calorie during the limited feeding opportunities. By maximising ​nutrient density​, you will ensure that your body still gets what it needs during weight loss to optimise mitochondrial function, prevent loss of metabolically active lean muscle.


I just recently paid attention to this style of fasting from a Marty Kendall newsletter and downloaded the Free explanation with 165 pages. https://www.datadrivenfasting.com/book I had to order a new glucose meter, and may join his challenge https://www.datadrivenfasting.com/home when after I test this a bit more.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 11:00
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Quote:
Consume beans, chickpeas, green peas, and other legumes as your main source of protein.


Ha ha ha; no.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Aug-04-20, 11:08
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BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
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Blech! Not a chance!

A year or so ago I did a plant-based keto plan upon the insistence of my (vegan) doc at the time. It was all nuts and veggies (mostly raw), with a whopping 1/2 ounce of animal protein allowed per day. Within a week I'd come down with a pretty bad flare-up of diverticulitis.
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