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  #31   ^
Old Sat, Aug-08-20, 13:05
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambulo
There are articles about this latest diet by Mosley in The Times and The Radio Times. His long-term maintenance strategy is that the dieters should be eating 3/4 of what they are before they began the 800 calories regime, preferably sticking to Mediterranean diet principles.
It's good to see that he's not making them do the more extreme diet for more than 3 weeks, and that he's only restricting maintenance to 3/4 of their pre-diet intake, which presumably means simply cutting out the excess they were stress eating during lockdown.

Quote:
I am surprised he said he lost weight and reversed his type 2 with his Fadt800 diet as back in 2012 he said he had done this with his 5:2 version of intermittent fasting.


That's an interesting tidbit of information - wonder why it changed? Or did he maybe do some combination of the two plans?

~~~

One thing that still bothers me about this is that he didn't have all that much to lose, and neither do his volunteers. Not that losing 20 lbs and keeping it off isn't an accomplishment, and even he said it's hard to keep it off.

But when you look around (especially in the US) and soooo many people have 50-100 lbs or more to lose, it makes you wonder how well this would work for them. I wouldn't want to see someone do the extreme low cal diet for more than 3 weeks*, but at the same time wonder if 3 weeks would be long enough to adequately improve their blood sugar profile, so that they have a better outcome if they get the virus, since in most cases it wouldn't be long enough to even get them out of the morbidly obese category.


*I just previewed this post, and see that Zei pointed out the exact reason I don't like the idea of anyone doing the extreme low cal diet for more than 3 weeks. Doing it for a single 3 week period probably won't be too damaging, simply because he's designed the diet to provide all essential nutrients.

Not causing any damage also assumes that those doing the 3 week diet haven't done extreme diets in the past, or at least haven't done them frequently. Eating well below your basal metabolic rate a couple of weeks one time is one thing, For instance, if you're sick for 3 weeks and eat at a similar calorie level to this diet (or even lower), you aren't likely to suffer long term metabolic consequences. Restricting your eating for 3 weeks every 2 months for years would be a different matter.

Or worse yet, in the case of a very nutritionally inadequate diet allowed on one forum I follow (a diet far more restrictive than Mosley's diet) which they do for months at at time, resulting in such an essential nutrient shortfall that as soon as they finish the diet, they're so depleted that they binge their way back up the scale in record time, then go right back on the extreme diet for a few weeks longer than the previous time, resulting in even more nutrient depletion, rinse and repeat for years and years. The diet was originally supposed to be 3 weeks on, 6 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 8 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 12 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 20 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 6 months off. But this group have been at this so long, and have messed up their metabolisms so much that they've turned all that around - there have been those who have been on the diet for anywhere from 4-9 months at a time, off a week or 3, back on again for a few more months. Sadly, they refuse to believe that the extreme diet itself, and nature of what they've turned the diet into (doing it for far longer periods of time than intended, with diminishing breaks in between dieting) is what's making it impossible for them to keep the weight off.
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  #32   ^
Old Sun, Aug-09-20, 03:47
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
Sadly, they refuse to believe that the extreme diet itself, and nature of what they've turned the diet into (doing it for far longer periods of time than intended, with diminishing breaks in between dieting) is what's making it impossible for them to keep the weight off.


So they all have an Eating Disorder now. Which is what this setup reminds me of.

I don't do well with those "meal plans" kind of diets. I know there are people who want to be told what to eat and when and they do it. I can't.

I can learn systems. I could eyeball any meal and get within 50 of official calories for it. I was a calorie counter extraordinaire, when it came to stuff I liked to eat. But it's like doing things on a dare. You can do anything, as long as it ends.
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, Aug-09-20, 09:50
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
So they all have an Eating Disorder now. Which is what this setup reminds me of.

I don't do well with those "meal plans" kind of diets. I know there are people who want to be told what to eat and when and they do it. I can't.

I can learn systems. I could eyeball any meal and get within 50 of official calories for it. I was a calorie counter extraordinaire, when it came to stuff I liked to eat. But it's like doing things on a dare. You can do anything, as long as it ends.



Yep, the way they're doing it, it really is an eating disorder.



Several years ago, one woman told her doctor about the diet, and asked if it was ok to do the diet to lose the weight she'd been battling for a while, and her doctor said "It's only three weeks? Sure, that's fine."



The basic description of this diet is 500 calories/day, using a very limited list of zero fat proteins (two 100 g servings daily, mostly white fish and chicken breast), a very limited list of vegetables (2 servings/day), and an extremely limited list of fruit (2 servings/day), plus they could have the juice of 1/2 lemon, 1 Tablespoon of milk, and the equivalent of about 1/2 slice of bread each day, with small amounts of dry seasonings (spices, herbs, salt, pepper). There were to be no added fats of any kind at all, so it was a zero fat diet. That's all they're allowed to eat - but from the very limited list of foods allowed, they could choose which proteins, vegs, and fruits they wanted each day, and they're allowed to drink as much water and black coffee as they want. In the doctor's eyes, the fact that it's based almost entirely on whole foods was in it's favor, and limiting such a restrictive diet to a 3 week stint meant it couldn't do a lot of damage.



Of course the way she presented it to her doctor made it sound like it would be a one time thing - a single 3 week diet. She didn't tell her doctor about the schedule for how to repeat the diet to lose more weight (the original diet plan assumed complete maintenance in between each repetition of the diet, so that you could lose down to goal weight), or that when she did the diet, many of the ones doing the diet were already lengthening the duration of the diet, and shortening the breaks in between dieting. This lady went on to do it a couple more times before finally giving up on the diet (thank goodness), because the weight came back on so fast, and she had enough sense to realize that's not the way to lose weight and keep it off. Not so with some of the others who have been doing it off and on for several years (I just checked, it's been a decade now!), battling the same pounds (often with a few extra pounds) over and over and over, always with the claim that "this time I'll keep the weight off for good!"



But anyhow, this is the long explanation of why alarm bells went off in my head with the first article I read about Mosley's diet - 800 cals is not quite as low as this cockamamie diet, but still extremely low, the fact that it was to be done for 3 weeks (and didn't say anything about what to do after that), and calling it a low carb Mediterranean diet made it sound extremely similar to the 500 cal diet. Then there was the claim that always sends up red flags in my mind, the promise that you'll lose of a lot of weight in a very short period of time.



Thank goodness in reality, despite what at first glance looks like similarities, Mosley's diet is not anything like the 500 cal diet, and he actually has a reasonable maintenance plan.
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  #34   ^
Old Mon, Aug-10-20, 13:21
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JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
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Plan: LC/DrWestman/P:E/DDF
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Opinion: Joanna Blythman: Want to stay fit and healthy? Then ignore Boris's bad advice

Quote:
BORIS Johnson clearly hasn’t been in control of his weight for years. It took coronavirus to make him realise that those extra stones he’s been carrying are a marker for poor metabolic health, which predisposes you to all sorts of disease: heart, cancer, stroke, Type 2 diabetes, the list goes on. So he’s waging a war on fat, quoting his government’s so-called nutrition experts: count calories, up your physical fitness, and avoid foods that are high in fat, sugar, and salt. This advice is worse than useless. It got us into our current mess.

If you just eat real food in natural forms – it’s quite hard to overeat. Very few of us could eat more than one apple at a go, but many could gulp down a large glass of apple juice, which is effectively sugar with all the fibre removed, in a flash. Real food sates your appetite. Ultra-processed has dissatisfaction built in; it leaves you craving more.

Calorie counting is a distraction. What matters is the nutritional quality of those calories. Puffed rice crackers, for instance, are low calorie, eggs are much higher, but in terms of nutrient density and satiety, no prizes for guessing which is the more health-promoting food.

The high fat, sugar, salt obsession presents multiple fatal errors. On fat, it fails because it cleaves to the outdated belief that saturated fat is a killer. Systematic reviews and meta-analyses of randomised controlled trials put a lie to this. But the industrial, ultra-processed, polyunsaturated fats – ‘vegetable oil’, spreads, et al – the type we’ve been been told are better for us, are doing us harm. There’s no argument about sugar. The less we have, the better. But diet guidelines tell us to base our meals on starchy foods, which raise our blood sugar levels just as surely as straight sugar. Salt is demonised because it can raise blood pressure, yet there’s no sound science to show that normal seasoning with salt in home cooking is anything other than tasty. On the other hand, there is abundant research to show that you can’t exercise off a bad diet. Being fit and active has many wellbeing and health benefits, but weight loss isn’t one of them.


Brazil, a country that grapples with a massive obesity problem, changed its diet guidelines in 2014. “Always prefer natural or minimally processed foods and freshly made dishes to ultra-processed products” is the nub of them. I wish the UK would do the same. It’s the only bit of diet advice we really need



https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...CJuMehyytKZ3xHI
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  #35   ^
Old Mon, Aug-10-20, 15:59
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mojolissa mojolissa is offline
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Plan: semi lc- OMAD w/IF
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My wish is that anyone on government assistance for food MUST choose healthy food. In other words, remove junk food, candy, pies, cakes, cookies, soda pop, etc from the government paid food programs. This would save a lot of money and help people get off junk food and the health benefits alone would help save money also.
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  #36   ^
Old Mon, Aug-10-20, 17:00
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Maybe everyone needs a nudge to healthy choices....and not single out any one group.
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  #37   ^
Old Tue, Aug-11-20, 01:17
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Demi Demi is offline
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The seven diet myths that stop you losing weight: As Dr Clare Bailey and her husband Michael Mosley prepare to launch a TV series to help you shed those lockdown pounds, she reveals the big untruths about dieting

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...ing-weight.html

Quote:
For more than 30 years I've been a GP, and though I hope I have been a good one, I owe many of my overweight patients an apology.

Until recently, I trotted out the standard weight-loss advice: eat a low-fat diet, pile your plate with starchy carbs and cut back on fat.

You must not, I told them, allow yourself to get hungry — and never, ever go on a rapid weight-loss diet as you'll simply put the weight back on, and more.

Now, in a new three–part series for Channel 4 that I'm co-presenting with my lovely husband and TV doctor, Michael Mosley, we're helping people lose weight by doing almost exactly the opposite.

Our group of obese or overweight volunteers all want to shed the pounds put on during lockdown — and in the series we show them trying to do it, by starting on a rapid weight-loss diet for three weeks.
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  #38   ^
Old Wed, Aug-12-20, 04:15
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Maybe everyone needs a nudge to healthy choices....and not single out any one group.


THIS. So MUCH.

Now, granted, I'm an outlier, even here But we all have eliminated high carb foods.

A lot of us have discovered we have to ditch grains, or dairy, or soy, to reach a healthy diet for us. None of us does well with even the "healthy" diet I see foodies bragging about, the one heavy on whole grains and starchy vegetables and low in fat and meat.

Far far more live on a diet of processed carbs and seed oil fats. I read debates from doctors and researchers about which one is the worst, but they are both very very bad.

So it follows, inevitably, that the typical Western diet, especially one from people who are financially challenged, which is also a food desert, creates a body which COVID-19 is particularly dangerous for.
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  #39   ^
Old Thu, Aug-13-20, 19:39
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
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Quote:
Far far more live on a diet of processed carbs and seed oil fats. I read debates from doctors and researchers about which one is the worst, but they are both very very bad.

So it follows, inevitably, that the typical Western diet, especially one from people who are financially challenged, which is also a food desert, creates a body which COVID-19 is particularly dangerous for.


Financially challenged. IMHO this is an excuse now that I understand the true value of different foods and fasting.

Among my travels to food pantries, only a rare few are thin and trim. But all others are obese and could seriously limit food intake to low carb and IF.

SNAP is available to a limited few but it encourages purchasing fresh veg and fruit.

Food deserts are a real problem in some areas. Where I live cars are a must as it allows acess to real supermarkets.

The nearest to me, and the most expensive is 2.5 miles away. For my mother, 5 miles.

Making a car essential to having access to real food.

The minimarts unfortunately dont carry real food, just packaged ready to eat "food".

Any push to eating real food is a good thing.
( Always amazed by the long line of cars at local McDonalds for lunchtime rush......not real food. Across the street is a grocery store.)
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  #40   ^
Old Thu, Aug-13-20, 19:51
Zei Zei is online now
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I volunteered with some youth at a huge food pantry, the part where donations of older stuff from grocery stores are sorted. I'm grateful I'm not experiencing hunger and don't need the things we sorted because none of it except two or three jars of coconut oil the entire shift was anything I'd want health-wise. Lots of ultra-processed products but of course what lots of people without financial troubles also eat.
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  #41   ^
Old Thu, Aug-13-20, 20:23
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Yes, the food pantries reflect a typical grocery. And breads from Panara and patries from a local grocery.

One food pantry gets veg from a local CSA as a donar pays for the shares. At that place, I could select my best options. Since the lock down, they bag up the junk and dole it out. I would have skipped the junk and got eggs, yogurt, frozen veg and fruit. Enough to fill a grocery cart to over flowing.

The guy who runs it gives me the odd foods and large cuts of meat or soup. He knows I will use it.

Interestingly, he is a low carber and lost his extra weight long ago.

Normally the set up is pick what you want, limited to two grocery bags of canned and packaged items, then selections from the freezers.

Another pantry has no freezers, nor refridgerator. Only canned and dried goods. They regularly run out despite all the donations. My son donated fresh veg to this pantry one summer as a Boy Scout project, delivering fresh veg on the day of distribution.

Too many dont know how to make better choices.
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  #42   ^
Old Fri, Aug-14-20, 00:33
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Demi Demi is offline
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How A Libertarian Is Tackling Obesity And Why Big Food Should Worry

Boris Johnson’s Junk Food Bans Could Tempt U.S. Policymakers to Get Tough


https://www.forbes.com/sites/hankca...y/#e07651b34358

Quote:
Britain has gained the dubious achievement of being the “fat man of Europe”: a country with the highest percentage (64%) of citizens in western Europe who are overweight or obese. But if its rotund Prime Minister Boris Johnson has his way, that’s about to change – and food companies across the pond had better take notice.

Following his April hospitalization in intensive care with Covid-19, which he attributed to being obese, Johnson in July pushed through new restrictions to curb obesity in the UK. This caught people by surprise considering that Johnson was once the proud libertarian who in 2018 denounced the UK’s new tax on sugary beverages as a “continuing creep of the nanny state.”
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  #43   ^
Old Sat, Aug-15-20, 09:07
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Big food aided by the USDA in the USA has the politicians in its back pocket. Until health issues directly caused by over consumption of processed foods and abnormally high carbohydrates can be exposed, this dynamic will continue. Like exposing the dangers of tobacco, we will need the awareness of this fatal behavior to become common knowledge before the majority of people decide change is in their best interests. The market will adjust based on the purchasing decisions of the majority.
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  #44   ^
Old Sat, Aug-15-20, 09:37
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
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COVID 19

THIS IS DRIVEN BY POOR HEALTH DUE TO POOR FOODS eaten everyday.

Now to get our gov to listen! To US, and not big ag $$.
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  #45   ^
Old Sat, Aug-15-20, 19:43
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Financially challenged. IMHO this is an excuse now that I understand the true value of different foods and fasting.

Among my travels to food pantries, only a rare few are thin and trim. But all others are obese and could seriously limit food intake to low carb and IF.

SNAP is available to a limited few but it encourages purchasing fresh veg and fruit.

Food deserts are a real problem in some areas. Where I live cars are a must as it allows acess to real supermarkets.

The nearest to me, and the most expensive is 2.5 miles away. For my mother, 5 miles.

Making a car essential to having access to real food.

The minimarts unfortunately dont carry real food, just packaged ready to eat "food".

Any push to eating real food is a good thing.
( Always amazed by the long line of cars at local McDonalds for lunchtime rush......not real food. Across the street is a grocery store.)



Not to nit-pick, but just so you know, SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, also called food stamps), is available to anyone who meets the income requirements, and the SNAP money can be used to buy any grocery store food they want, except prepared hot food (such as rotisserie chickens and other hot bar foods).

It's WIC (Women, Infants, and Children) that is much more limited. Of course it's limited to low income, but further limited to pregnant women, infants, and children under the age of 6. The exact items, sizes, and brands they're allowed are specified on the WIC (all WIC eligible items are marked with a WIC sign on the store shelves), and they're allowed a certain amount of the specified items each month, depending on which family member(s) are on the program. It allows a certain dollar amount of fresh produce, frozen, or canned fruits (in juice or water) and veggies each month - when I worked in the store, it was most often either $7 or $10. There was a heavy emphasis on whole grains and legumes. Most families would be allowed a dozen regular eggs, a 15 or 16 oz jar of peanut butter, and an 8 or 16 oz package of cheese. Whole milk was only allowed for children under 2, and of course after age 2, they had to switch to reduced fat, low fat, or skim (exact size container and type specified on the WIC check). The only time any meats were allowed on WIC was for pregnant or fully breastfeeding women, who were allowed a couple of small cans of fish, and fully breastfed infants, who were allowed a few baby food jars of meat.

Aside from the fact that overall, the amount of supplemental food allowed is extremely low in protein, heavy on legumes, and almost devoid of any fats at all, it's not a bad program.

However, WIC customers were often the same ones spending almost all of their SNAP dollars (several times more money than the cost of the foods allowed by WIC) on sodas, chips, bread, donuts, pasta, jarred sauces, etc.



You're right that you can eat a much more nutritious diet for the same amount of money if you concentrate on meats and veggies, but most SNAP and WIC recipients don't realize this. Generally, they're looking purely at the sheer volume of non-perishable food they can buy to last until their next grocery trip (since they probably don't have much refrigerator or freezer space), and if they cut out anything to save money, it's the much smaller volume per dollar meats, which they don't have room for in the freezer, and when fresh, need to be used quickly. But also compare $5 worth of ground beef (you might get almost 2 lbs, if you buy the cheapest you can find), compared to $5 worth of cheap pasta (at least 4 or 5 one lb boxes) - those boxes of pasta are going to look like a lot more food, in the grocery cart, and on the plate. Yes, they're going to be hungry again in a couple of hours on the pasta meal, but if they've never done LC, they have no idea that a LC meal can keep you from feeling truly hungry for several hours longer.
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