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  #16   ^
Old Tue, Jul-28-20, 06:57
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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WHAT the body is fed matters. Junk foods filled with fats/carbs combo is the worst foods according to Dr. ATKINS.

Dr. BERRY, as I recall, discussed a relatively new study comparing low carb to low fat . No change in calorie intake, not a weight loss focus. ENTIRE FAMILIES participated. Looked at many markers like body composition and %fatty liver among others.

Simply changing the balance of calories from carbs to fats CHANGED the body composition.Without decreasing the total calories.

Based on how McD,s dealt with calorie reporting, the customer infornation sheet also included carbs, fats, and protein.

With access to such information many people have kearned their fast food contains FAR more calories than they estimated. We on this forum have become experts at knowing the number of carbs, fats and protein in every food. Most people who have "dieted" can read food labels. The rest of the populace is in darkness.

What we eat matters. Showing the public the content of their restaurant food will show the fat/carb/protein...the macros most dieters follow.

There is hope here that the national conversation on food content is changing.

Its not the level we on this forum live at, but its a push in the right direction.
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Jul-29-20, 06:07
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
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Dr Aseem Malhotra's opinion piece in today's Telegraph:


Quote:
We must accept that junk food is the new tobacco

There is one missing ingredient in the PM's obesity campaign

Aseem Malhotra


Boris Johnson’s new drive to tackle Britain’s ever increasing waistlines is welcome news because it begins to address the root cause of the obesity epidemic.

Banning junk food and drink advertising before 9pm and abolishing two for one offers on such products in supermarkets are well overdue steps to regulate against the excesses and manipulations of Big Food.

These very industries have for decades done everything possible to make their nutritionally poor, starch, sugar and salt rich products available to anyone, anywhere, at anytime. In the UK alone they spend £143 million a year on marketing confectionery, crisps and sugary drinks, targeting children and the most vulnerable members of society. This is 27 times more than the government spends on healthy eating campaigns such as Change for Life.

As a result the average Brit is now consuming more than half their calories from such ultra-processed foods, resulting in two thirds of the adult population being overweight or obese and 1 in 3 children being in the same category by the time they leave primary school.

Even the NHS has become a branding opportunity for the junk food industry, with 75pc of products purchased in hospital grounds being unhealthy. It’s not surprising that over half of healthcare professionals are also overweight or obese too.

The industry even manages to sell many of these fake foods under misleading claims suggesting they’re healthy such as “low fat”, “wholegrain”, or “proven to lower cholesterol.” As I always tell my patients, if it comes out of a packet and has five or more ingredients, it ultra-processed and best avoided.

And just like big tobacco adopted a corporate playbook by shifting the blame onto the individual to avoid any regulation, they have a tangled web of cheerleaders for what eminent US obesity researcher Professor Kelly Brownell calls “dirty tricks”.

It took five decades after the first links between smoking and lung cancer were made before any effective regulation was introduced to curb consumption because cigarette companies adopted a corporate playbook of creating doubt over whether cigarettes were harmful, confusing the public, downright denial and even buying the loyalty of bent scientists and political allies. All to protect their only interest; profit. Big Tobacco lied and millions died.

Similarly, to deflect from their own culpability in driving diet related disease the food industry has pushed the message of exercise is the best way to tackle obesity, even using the association of sport to legitimise the consumption of junk food. The main sponsors of the 2012 Olympics for example were McDonald’s, Coca Cola, Cadbury’s and Heineken. Although exercise has a multitude of health benefits weight loss is not one of them. So it’s a bizarre move that Boris has suggested that GP’s would get paid for prescribing cycling. As Boris should well know from his own experience, you can’t outcycle a bad diet.

Incentivising doctors to refer patients to slimming clubs will fail. Although severe calorie restriction which is the modus operandi of the weight loss industry can reduce the pounds in the short term, the overwhelming majority of people not just regain weight within a few years but many end up heavier than they started.

Counting calories also detracts from good nutrition. The quality of calories is way more important.

The other elephant in the room is that doctors have little training in basic nutrition, lacking knowledge, time and confidence in prescribing specific diet regimens to patients. Type 2 diabetes which as a single condition is the largest contributor to NHS costs can be sent into remission within weeks of cutting ultra-processed, starchy and sugary foods, without counting calories.

The most important message key message missing from the whole obesity drive is to just eat real food. This isn’t just to improve the health of the nation but it’s about a cultural shift back to a more traditional way of eating.

Compulsory food education and cooking skills in schools needs to be implemented.

The biggest driver of reduction in smoking prevalence was taxation of cigarettes. The government by raising the price of ultra-processed foods will not just reduce consumption but will also force the industry to shift the food supply to more whole and minimally processed foods.

There’s also a very strong economic argument as sickness absence due to lifestyle diseases is costing the UK £91 billion per year due to lost productivity. Covid-19 has focused our attention once again to our poor eating habits. Excess body fat translates into a sub optimal immune system.

No one knows this more now than the Prime Minister himself. One study suggested that possibly half of the almost 50,000 deaths from COVID-19 could have been avoided if the population didn’t have such poor baseline health. Unless we act as a matter of urgency with the right measures to rapidly reverse all the lifestyle diseases associated with obesity there may be even more misery and devastation when the next pandemic comes around. Ultra-processed food is the new tobacco, so let’s start treating it that way.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...od-new-tobacco/

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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Jul-29-20, 07:09
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
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Good article from Malhotra, Demi. This is the reality check that's needed to temper people/ politicians who immediately desire to spring into action to defeat obesity with no fundamental understanding of the basics. I love these statements:

Quote:
"Similarly, to deflect from their own culpability in driving diet related disease the food industry has pushed the message of exercise is the best way to tackle obesity, even using the association of sport to legitimise the consumption of junk food. The main sponsors of the 2012 Olympics for example were McDonald’s, Coca Cola, Cadbury’s and Heineken. Although exercise has a multitude of health benefits weight loss is not one of them. So it’s a bizarre move that Boris has suggested that GP’s would get paid for prescribing cycling. As Boris should well know from his own experience, you can’t outcycle a bad diet.

Incentivising doctors to refer patients to slimming clubs will fail. Although severe calorie restriction which is the modus operandi of the weight loss industry can reduce the pounds in the short term, the overwhelming majority of people not just regain weight within a few years but many end up heavier than they started.

Counting calories also detracts from good nutrition. The quality of calories is way more important.

The other elephant in the room is that doctors have little training in basic nutrition, lacking knowledge, time and confidence in prescribing specific diet regimens to patients. Type 2 diabetes which as a single condition is the largest contributor to NHS costs can be sent into remission within weeks of cutting ultra-processed, starchy and sugary foods, without counting calories."

Being blunt about what works and what doesn't in terms of losing weight and achieving health must come from one who has the knowledge to tell the difference and has sound experience from clinical practice and studies to prove it. Malhotra hits the prime issues of exercise, calorie reduction and favors quality of calories rather than quantity. The question is will other medical professionals take the time to learn what constitutes sound nutrition? Will the masses eager for public acceptance step aside to let experts like Malhotra, Unwin, and others lead the way? Stay tuned . . . . . . .
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  #19   ^
Old Thu, Jul-30-20, 04:42
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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When potato chips cost the same per pound as filet mignon (as a forum member has stated) there's an enormous profit motive built into 80% of what is sold in the supermarket. I avoid more aisles than I go down.

Reform will require a completely different way of managing and handling food.
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  #20   ^
Old Thu, Jul-30-20, 08:13
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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The cost oer pound chips equalling a pound of a great cut of meat is the reason I kerp spewing eating simple meat and veg neals IS affordable. ADD in fasting, and meat and veg based meals become more affordable.

Veggies are cheaper than chips, too. Maybe not baby leaf lettuce......

I dont mind my teens skipping a bowl of cereal for breakfast.

I dont mind making "breakfast" at 11-noon.

I dont mind if oldest eats only once a day occassionally.....
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  #21   ^
Old Thu, Aug-06-20, 02:14
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
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Lose a Stone in 21 Days with Michael Mosley

https://www.channel4.com/programmes...-michael-mosley

Quote:
Lockdown has been bad for the nation's health. Doctor Michael Mosley devises a lifestyle intervention and diet to get our health back on track.
Quote:
Lose a Stone in 21 Days with Michael Mosley, Channel 4, review: no-nonsense Mosley is right candidate to lead fight against flab

One in three British people is clinically obese. “Not me,” I thought, popping a Malteser into my mouth. “Clinically obese people need the fire brigade to winch them out of bed.” Malteser. “I’ve never had to do that.” Malteser. Malteser. Malteser. But then we were introduced to some of these clinically obese people and they looked… rather like me. And you, I suspect.

Lose a Stone in 21 Days with Michael Mosley is not from the same store cupboard as, say, Fat Club or The Biggest Loser, which focused on those at the extreme end of the scales. This three-part series is simply about shifting what Mosley calls “lockdown belly”. And it really matters. Not only can being overweight increase the risk of heart disease and diabetes, it also increases by 37 per cent your chances of dying from Covid-19. Boris Johnson has been banging on about this since concluding that his own near-death experience of the virus was down, in part, to being “too fat”.

Mosley strikes me as a very good candidate to lead the fight against flab. Refreshingly, he doesn’t have much time for self-pity. “There are some nasty numbers in here, some bad news,” he told the five volunteers. “But the good news is we can change it.” In short, let’s get cracking.

Mosley put the volunteers on a diet of 800 calories a day, explaining that the body needs to switch from burning sugar (“money in your pocket”) to burning fat (“money in the bank account”). As we saw from the volunteers’ video diary, this isn’t easy. “I’ve had a couple of dizzy spells,” explained 34-year-old Katie. But even by the end of the first week, things were looking up. “Yes! I love it,” she said, tucking into one of Mosley’s recipes.

There will always be people who claim these sorts of programmes set out to humiliate fat people; that being happy in yourself is what matters. Normally I’d agree. Eating should never be framed as a shameful act (I was quite cross with Mosley when he talked about rummaging through the volunteers’ cupboards to discover their “deepest, darkest secrets”).

But Covid-19 has changed all that. The data is clear. Our lives, I think we can all agree, are more important than our feelings.

https://inews.co.uk/culture/televis...wn-belly-572119
Quote:
Teacher, 34, who weighs 14st 3lbs left stunned after Dr Michael Mosley tells her she is at 'serious risk of developing diabetes' after gaining 9lbs during lockdown

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...betes-risk.html
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Aug-06-20, 15:24
Zei Zei is offline
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Quote:
Mosley put the volunteers on a diet of 800 calories a day, explaining that the body needs to switch from burning sugar (“money in your pocket”) to burning fat (“money in the bank account”).

Good intentions, but unfortunately too low in energy. Body's survival instinct will kick in at this calorie level and fight back, forcing failure. I wish they had the information available on, say, THIS website.
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  #23   ^
Old Fri, Aug-07-20, 06:22
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
Good intentions, but unfortunately too low in energy. Body's survival instinct will kick in at this calorie level and fight back, forcing failure. I wish they had the information available on, say, THIS website.



Yep, and this is very telling:


Quote:
As we saw from the volunteers’ video diary, this isn’t easy. “I’ve had a couple of dizzy spells,” explained 34-year-old Katie. But even by the end of the first week, things were looking up. “Yes! I love it,” she said, tucking into one of Mosley’s recipes.




Dizzy spells are a warning sign that something isn't right. In this case it's the diet, since there was such an abrupt and drastic change to the diet, especially to a diet so low in calories.



I'm so sick of signing up/registering to every site out that that I want to just read or watch one thing that I rebelliously refused to do it this time, so I don't know any more about the diet than what Demi posted here.



But just as a first impression, I'm always skeptical of any diet that makes an absolute promise that you WILL lose a certain number of pounds in a certain number of days/weeks, in this case a stone (14 lbs) in 3 weeks.



What about someone who has already lost 50 or 100 lbs or more, and is only 14 pounds from their goal weight? Does he guarantee that person will also lose 14 lbs in 3 weeks?


Or what about someone who has done dozens of diets over a period of a few years: low cal, low fat, grapefruit diet, cabbage soup diet, crash 500 calorie diets, yo-yo-ing constantly up and down 10-15 lbs, with losses occurring much more slowly with each succeeding diet (leading to the habitual dieter white-knuckling it through the most restrictive diets for several months to lose the desired amount of weight, rather than just the few recommended weeks), with the pounds coming back on lightning fast, without any kind of binging, just by resuming a somewhat less restrictive diet - how is any loss on this particular diet supposed to be any more sustainable for that person?


What is his maintenance plan? That's the most important part of any diet - there needs to be a maintenance plan so that you don't regain the weight, and not just "if you gain weight, go back on the diet again".


Without seeing any more information about this diet, I'm left thinking that it's just another calories in/calories out, you deserve to starve to lose the weight, as your punishment for allowing yourself to gain so much weight.
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Aug-07-20, 08:10
Demi's Avatar
Demi Demi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
Without seeing any more information about this diet, I'm left thinking that it's just another calories in/calories out, you deserve to starve to lose the weight, as your punishment for allowing yourself to gain so much weight.
It's based on his Fast 800 plan:

Quote:
Calorie consumption is limited to around 800 to 1,000 calories a day, and it’s based on a healthy, low-carb, Mediterranean-style way of eating.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...kly-safely.html
Quote:
The Fast 800: How to combine rapid weight loss and intermittent fasting for long-term health

Six years ago, Dr Michael Mosley started a health revolution with the 5.2 Fast Diet, telling the world about the incredible power of intermittent fasting. In this book he brings together all the latest science - including a new approach: Time Restricted Eating - to create an easy-to-follow programme. Recent studies have shown that 800 calories is the magic number when it comes to successful dieting - it's an amount high enough to be manageable but low enough to speed weight loss and trigger a range of desirable metabolic changes. The secret of this new programme is that it is highly flexible - depending on your goals, you can choose how intensively you want to do it. Along with delicious, low-carb, Mediterranean-style recipes and menu plans by Dr Clare Bailey, The Fast 800 offers an effective way to help you lose weight, improve mood and reduce blood pressure, inflammation and blood sugars. Take your future health into your own hands.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-800-c.../dp/1780723628/
Quote:
Dr Michael Mosley: 'It's a good idea to have longer periods without food'
https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=482412
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  #25   ^
Old Fri, Aug-07-20, 12:40
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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It amazes me at the level of cynacism expressed.....we should be the cheerleaders of change.......any change that results in weight loss is a good thing. There is no perfect diet. What works for one may not for another. The more optiobs that can entice people to reaccess their food intake and their level of obesity is critical to change this obesety/chronic disease epidemic.

Atkins doesnt work for everyone.
Nor Mediterranian.
Nor CAD.

OMAD worked well for at one point dropping about 20 pounds in 37 days.

Every other day fasting works for others.

If 800 calories for a few weeks shows willing participants what is possible and is an intro to taking control of ones health via food, why not?

Light headed? Well that can happen on Atkins too. On either diet, support should be offered during the transition. Imho a little light headedness us well worth avoiding toe amputations, foot amputation and leg amputation.

On this forum, we have a lot to offer in experience to assist those ready to change and jump into weight loss. Getting over the hump is what everyone experiences at whatever level of distress.
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  #26   ^
Old Fri, Aug-07-20, 19:30
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
It's based on his Fast 800 plan:


Thank you, Demi - that was the information I needed, because the articles I saw above told me next to nothing, except that it was 800 cals (which is technically considered to be a starvation diet), and the lady who loved the diet was having dizzy spells from it, which to me still indicates there's some kind of problem.

Other diets can make you dizzy too - but to me, that says she needs something changed about it to keep her from having dizzy spells, which I'm guessing are most likely related to low blood sugar, perhaps from some of the higher carb recipes. With only 3 recipes in that article, there's one that has only about 3 oz chicken per serving, but then has chickpeas, apparently to increase the protein content. The recipe says a "tin of chickpeas", and a tin of chopped tomatoes.

I don't know how big a can/tin of chickpeas is in the UK, but back when I was eating beans, chickpeas were the one bean that it seemed only came in a 29 oz can (seven 1/2 cup servings, 20 carbs per serving), so that recipe could potentially have 75 g carbs/serving, just from the chickpeas alone. Even if it's one of the smaller cans that most beans come in here (15-16 oz, 3-1/2 servings) if you use the entire can in that recipe, that's still 35 g carbs per serving - add to that the tin of chopped tomatoes (again, how big? I've seen 14-15 oz cans, 3-1/2 servings, 6ish carbs per serving, as well as 28 oz cans, with 6 or 7 servings) - the smaller can would add an additional 10ish grams carbs per serving, the larger can another 20ish g/serving), and the medium onion (approximately another 5 g carbs per serving)... so that would put you at a minimum of 45-50 g carbs/serving for that meal (or closer to 100, if you're in the US and think those recipes are indicating the larger cans), so not one that I would call truly LC, even if it is certainly better than pasta, potato chips, donuts, and cake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
It amazes me at the level of cynacism expressed.....we should be the cheerleaders of change.......any change that results in weight loss is a good thing. There is no perfect diet. What works for one may not for another. The more optiobs that can entice people to reaccess their food intake and their level of obesity is critical to change this obesety/chronic disease epidemic.

Atkins doesnt work for everyone.
Nor Mediterranian.
Nor CAD.

OMAD worked well for at one point dropping about 20 pounds in 37 days.

Every other day fasting works for others.

If 800 calories for a few weeks shows willing participants what is possible and is an intro to taking control of ones health via food, why not?

Light headed? Well that can happen on Atkins too. On either diet, support should be offered during the transition. Imho a little light headedness us well worth avoiding toe amputations, foot amputation and leg amputation.

On this forum, we have a lot to offer in experience to assist those ready to change and jump into weight loss. Getting over the hump is what everyone experiences at whatever level of distress.


I wasn't trying to be cynical about it - I was basing what I said on what little was indicated in the article. First that it was an 800 calorie diet (didn't mention that it could be as much as 1000 calories), then that you would definitely lose a stone (14 lbs) in 3 weeks. Without knowing who Dr Mosley is (I'm terrible with names, so even though there was a thread on here earlier, I didn't associate the name) Basically, to me 800 calories, "it's so good!" about the recipes, and the promise of losing 14 lbs in 3 weeks - it looked like an article that could have come from one of junky women's magazines at the grocery store that always have these two things on the cover: some amazing diet-of-the-week... and a huge, tempting, decadent cake recipe.

On the other hand, what Dr Mosley says in the article he wrote is:

Quote:
I know how hard it is to lose weight, and keep it off, but it can be done — I shed 9kg (nearly 20lb) and reversed my diabetes diagnosis by putting myself on a low-calorie diet.

Now I’m working with Channel 4 on a new three-part series, during which we test out an even faster approach to weight loss. The idea is that we take a group of people who have piled on the pounds during lockdown and help them shed that excess weight by putting them on a rapid weight-loss diet. Calorie consumption is limited to around 800 to 1,000 calories a day, and it’s based on a healthy, low-carb, Mediterranean-style way of eating.



See, now isn't that a much better description "lose a stone in 3 weeks on 800 calories a day"?

Then there's this:


Quote:
Our participants needed to act to avoid the same potential fate.

I can’t yet reveal the end results because we’re still filming and I’ve asked them not to weigh themselves until the final day. By then we’ll also have all the blood results, enabling us to assess how well their immune system may now be functioning. I am optimistic, but a little nervous, as you never quite know what will happen.

Although we’re only filming the results of their first three weeks on the diet, I plan to support them long term. I don’t want this to be just a quick fix. I want to instil in them habits which will become permanent. It can be done, and there is no better time than the present — for all of us.



So did all of them lose at least 14 lbs in the 3 weeks, as well as significantly improving their blood work? That doesn't sound like even he knows as of the date her wrote that article - and he says he's optimistic, but also says you never quite know what will happen.

I'm glad to hear that it's not just a quick fix either, that he intends to support them long term - and hopefully, they're not going to be stuck at such a low calorie intake long term, based on this:


Quote:
This may sound like a crash diet, but it’s actually based on a lot of good-quality scientific studies. Low-calorie diets like this have been piloted by the NHS in a bid to tackle obesity. Our volunteers wanted to see results, fast. We wanted to make sure the weight loss was safe and sustainable.

~snip~


While we’ve been repeatedly told rapid weight-loss diets are dangerous and ineffective, because you just put all the weight back on again, this is not borne out by the latest research. Recent studies show that, if done properly, not only are people who lose weight fast more likely to hit their targets, but they are also more likely to keep it off in the long term.


If done properly is the big thing, and it appears that he's doing it right. Even for such a low calorie diet, the recipes in that article are not skimping on protein, not skimping on veggies, and his recipes actually call for added fats, even if not much, since the calories would add up way too fast if they did have a lot of fat.

So after finding out what HE actually has to say about it, I don't have nearly as many reservations about the diet.
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  #27   ^
Old Sat, Aug-08-20, 03:00
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Ambulo Ambulo is online now
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There are articles about this latest diet by Mosley in The Times and The Radio Times. His long-term maintenance strategy is that the dieters should be eating 3/4 of what they are before they began the 800 calories regime, preferably sticking to Mediterranean diet principles.

I am surprised he said he lost weight and reversed his type 2 with his Fadt800 diet as back in 2012 he said he had done this with his 5:2 version of intermittent fasting.
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  #28   ^
Old Sat, Aug-08-20, 06:42
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Benay Benay is offline
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I agree with your assessments Caliana
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  #29   ^
Old Sat, Aug-08-20, 09:38
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WereBear WereBear is offline
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Don't forget a reduced calories diet is also, inevitably, a reduced low carb diet.
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  #30   ^
Old Sat, Aug-08-20, 11:22
Zei Zei is offline
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My concern with extremely low calorie diets is how the human body deals with the perceived state of famine by dropping the number of calories expended (including healthy things your body needs like immunity, growth or whatever) to try to match what's coming in to avoid death by starvation. A person may lose some weight that way while the body desperately attempts to compensate for the perceived survival threat, but then what? Raise the calorie level even not especially very much, not even anywhere near a normal reasonable amount of food for one's needs, and due to the starvation-depressed metabolism the person will gain weight due to even that still low calorie level being above what the body had to get itself down to burning to survive the very low-calorie episode. I remember the study done on Biggest Losers finding their metabolisms still depressed something like five years later. Due to this problem I don't think super low calorie diets are a great idea.
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