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  #1   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 14:54
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default Dr. Ted Naiman P:E Diet - High Protein/Moderate Carb + IF + Intensive Exercise

Anyone following Dr. Ted Naiman? He finally issued a book last year thePEdiet.com. Before this, he seemed to call his plan Burn Fat Not Sugar, and still runs that website and FB site.

His plan is basically:

--high protein (at least 1 gram per pound of ideal body weight). He recommends high quality protein, like meat, fish, chicken, seafood, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, eggs, etc.

--moderate carb (generally 100 grams IF you do his intensive no gym exercises, less if you are sedentary, more if doing a great deal of exercise). Carbs are generally low sugar fruits, lots of greens, and even a small amount of potato or a big bowl of air popcorn. Best eaten in the evening in one shot with a lower fat protein meal. I've noticed a lot of his followers are actually zero carb (he does not recommend zero carb).

--fat as a lever (depending on goals - lower it for fat loss for example). Good fats recommended, but not added fats if trying to lose weight (so if trying to lose weight, you don't add butter or oil to food or coffee)

--IF aka intermittent fasting aka time-restricted feeding windows (he does 16/8 himself but he talks about various plans, does not recommend more than 24 hours of fasting)

--high intensity exercises (no gym required - he uses body weight to "failure" such as squats, pull ups, push ups - all to failure, meaning you basically do them until you can't do one more, then you do another, then another until you really can't do any more, and intensive cardio (such as jump rope, burpees, sprints, bike sprints, jump squats, etc.).

He has a lecture up on his YouTube channel, and some exercise demos there as well. He has been interviewed many, many times on other channels.


I have finally come to the conclusion that higher protein is the most effective method of low-carb dieting for me, and adding the intensive exercise as well as the IF, even if I only do light exercise and follow 16/8 without snacking, pretty much makes it impossible to even gain weight even if I am on vacation and not being perfect, as long as I start with the protein and get it in. It is pretty amazing.

I do love to Fung fast as well. I did some Fung fasting about four years ago when the first book came out, but regained it (I think Fung fasting doesn't stick with LCHF). Last year I did a bunch of Fung fasting with Dr. Naiman's plan, and the weight loss stuck this time. It has been seriously great. I haven't been Fung fasting for several months now.

I've been his patient for about 15 years. He has helped me lose about 107 pounds now over the years. It has been a long road.

Last edited by Key Tones : Tue, May-05-20 at 15:20.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 15:09
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,822
 
Plan: P:E/DDF/LC-DrWestman
Stats: 225/157/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/29%/25%
Progress: 121%
Location: NC
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Dr Naimen posted on Twitter recently he finally has a publisher who will do a Print book of the P:E diet, and it is expected soon. I didn’t want it in E-book, others have said his first version did not play well on Kindle.

Good info on his website: https://www.burnfatnotsugar.com/ProteinEnergy.html
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 15:36
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,889
 
Plan: DDF (2021 Q2)
Stats: 168/93/82 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 87%
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I'm a fan. I'm experimenting with higher protein but not following a his plan (I don't even know what it is) since beginning of April i've been doing some ADF as well.

What is Fung Fast - I know who doctor Jason Fung is but never heard the term "Fung Fast" - He's got a number of different approaches to fasting.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 15:42
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,876
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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Marty Kendall is a Dr Naiman fan and vice versa. Although I don't specifically follow Naiman's advice (I have not read his book) I do follow Marty Kendall's advice and my diet has become quite high in protein, still low in carbs, and moderate in fat. It seems to be working well for me. Marty Kendall recommends Ted Naiman's book.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 19:05
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

Oh, yay, thank you for your replies!
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 19:09
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Dr Naimen posted on Twitter recently he finally has a publisher who will do a Print book of the P:E diet, and it is expected soon. I didn’t want it in E-book, others have said his first version did not play well on Kindle.

Good info on his website: https://www.burnfatnotsugar.com/ProteinEnergy.html


I do want the book when it comes out! Of course I am going to ask him to sign it

I have the pdf, which downloads through Gum Road. I like it because they have an app and I can word search it. Also, I can’t lose the book—I just went back to the email confirm where I got it, and downloaded it again when I got my new iPhone. It has bookmarks you can set too so you don’t lose your place.

A large amount of the book’s Naimemes (memes) are on Instagram too
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 19:11
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
I'm a fan. I'm experimenting with higher protein but not following a his plan (I don't even know what it is) since beginning of April i've been doing some ADF as well.

What is Fung Fast - I know who doctor Jason Fung is but never heard the term "Fung Fast" - He's got a number of different approaches to fasting.


I was reading my doc’s clinical notes and noticed that’s what he calls it. I like it. I think of Fung fasting as the type you do to lose weight or reverse diabetes, as opposed to water fasting where they freak out if you say you drank some chicken broth (I use chicken bullion, MSG-free) or coffee or even salt (I think water fasting is too extreme-definitely needs sea salt or pink Himalayan salt).
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, May-05-20, 19:20
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
Marty Kendall is a Dr Naiman fan and vice versa. Although I don't specifically follow Naiman's advice (I have not read his book) I do follow Marty Kendall's advice and my diet has become quite high in protein, still low in carbs, and moderate in fat. It seems to be working well for me. Marty Kendall recommends Ted Naiman's book.


I have heard of him—I think through tagging Dr. Naiman on Facebook and like you say—tags the other direction as well (probably Twitter).

I do love the high protein approach—sticking the weight loss so easily is what makes it truly great for me.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, May-06-20, 18:52
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Funnily enough, I’m also a paying member of the DietDoctor website (and I believe Naiman is also featured there), and I’m also on their members-only FB page. They had a post today referencing one of their favorite success stories. So I went to read his story.

And basically it was that he was stalled quite a long time and began tracking his food, and concluded that he was eating far too little fat, and far too much protein which affected his BG like candy. So he seriously began bumping up the fat, and cutting way back on his protein and broke his stall and began losing well again and got his diabetes into the normal range. 😂
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, May-06-20, 19:36
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

I can see both sides of the argument - and I think when you see something like the "protein wars" that both sides are probably right and are getting different effects. I've heard reports of people gaining weight on high fat ketogenic diets, and losing weight as well.

High protein doesn't cause high blood sugar in most people, although I have heard of it in diabetes type 1 (Dr. Naiman mentioned it regarding type 1, not sure on type 2). I think most of the time people are eating a lot of protein foods that have fat too, and that will cause blood sugar to go up. Just eating in excess does it - the body doesn't have anywhere to put the extra fat that rides with the protein. He explained that in the interview on Ketogenic Girl's podcast/Youtube channel.

I have heard Ben Bikman talk about this effect as well - if I remember correctly, there are cases where it can happen but isn't a large effect (I can't remember if that was diabetes). He is the king of all things metabolic - I intend to dive into his lectures when I have time.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, May-06-20, 19:46
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

I should mention - I'm teetering on the edge of pre-diabetes (A1c has been 5.5 to 5.8 last two times pulled), so I got a continuous glucose monitor. It has been telling. There are little ways I have been messing up, like getting my hands on a few of my daughter's gluten free chips when she is sitting there munching until I crack and grab a few. The reaction on the monitor is quite a bit larger than I thought it would be. So I am killing bad habits by watching the monitor. Anyway....

I have been experimenting, and eating as much protein as I can stand (like, packing down 0% greek yogurt along with, or after a meal), and eating leaner proteins - it does not budge the glucose readings. Not at all. I still wake up, take the ketones test (I use strips), and find I am in a light ketosis in the morning, and blood sugar is the same to slightly lower than usual (mid-90s).

I was just curious, so I pushed it.

Before I got the meter, I went to a japanese buffet and ate a lot of seafood (like crab legs, shrimp - things that don't have fat). Later I had ham and mozarella cheese roll ups from Trader Joes (pre-made). The next morning, same thing - ketosis (strips) and blood sugar in the 90s with the finger prick test.

I did this because I want to be certain I am on the right track. As much as I believe Dr. Naiman, I just wanted to be sure after listening to all of that "protein is like chocolate cake" stuff. It just is not true.
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, May-07-20, 05:33
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,551
 
Plan: LC/MF/HP
Stats: 212/188/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 57%
Location: Rural Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones
As much as I believe Dr. Naiman, I just wanted to be sure after listening to all of that "protein is like chocolate cake" stuff. It just is not true.

That's what I've read, too. From what I've read time and time again, all the stuff about gluconeogensis from eating "too much" protein doesn't hold water. This article from Amber O'Hearn says it's demand-driven rather than supply-driven.

http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-y...es-it-turn.html

She says that although "there are valid reasons for limiting protein intake, experimental evidence does not support this one." I tend to side more with Naiman than with O'Hearn on protein intake levels, but thought the article was interesting anyway.
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  #13   ^
Old Thu, May-07-20, 17:17
Key Tones's Avatar
Key Tones Key Tones is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 107
 
Plan: Dr. Ted Naiman + Dr. Fung
Stats: 312/186/160 Female 5'10"
BF:
Progress: 83%
Default

Yes-thank you for posting!

Although I am not zero carb, I do like to follow some of them on YouTube given the awesome guests they have. I’ve recently discovered scientist-professor Ben Bikman.

He really gives awesome talks on metabolism. He is so careful to outline what it actually shown through science vs. beliefs.
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  #14   ^
Old Thu, May-07-20, 19:46
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,876
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones
Yes-thank you for posting!

Although I am not zero carb, I do like to follow some of them on YouTube given the awesome guests they have. I’ve recently discovered scientist-professor Ben Bikman.

He really gives awesome talks on metabolism. He is so careful to outline what it actually shown through science vs. beliefs.


I'm a fan of Ben Bikman too. I agree. He is always careful to distinguish between what is known scientifically and what is just speculation.
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  #15   ^
Old Fri, May-08-20, 12:53
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 7,582
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Tones
I just wanted to be sure after listening to all of that "protein is like chocolate cake" stuff. It just is not true.
I know a few years ago when I was doing more of a protein hack that eating protein was like chocolate cake for me - BG skyrocketed! Not sure what the affect would be now as I haven't been pushing the protein.
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