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  #16   ^
Old Sat, Apr-18-20, 15:09
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,529
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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The NIH will get a lot of volunteer subjects for this study. I'm hoping one or more of us on this forum gets selected. It will be interesting to share feedback among ourselves.
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  #17   ^
Old Sat, Apr-18-20, 17:21
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,564
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/170/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 110%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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I'd be leery about the antibody tests being valid.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/heal...ists/index.html
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  #18   ^
Old Sat, Apr-18-20, 20:33
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Posts: 14,962
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
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The article clearly reports that its the wild wild west with anyone putting out tests, unproven tests.
And...
Quote:
"That's the $64 question," said Dr. Harvey Fineberg, chairman of the NAS committee, who was also on the phone call with the White House. "Does antibody level equate to resistance to getting ill again?"

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sun, Apr-19-20 at 14:30.
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  #19   ^
Old Sat, Apr-18-20, 20:58
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 2,288
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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The study Ken linked to is NOT somebody pushing some unverified antibody test with the promise that it'll tell you if you've had the virus and are now immune so can go back to work/etc without worrying.

This is a long-term study by the National Institutes of Health attempting to finally get a handle on just how many people in the U.S. have actually been infected with coronavirus and just how rapidly the coronavirus is spreading among people who haven't been able to get tested. If anybody can get access to VALIDATE antibody tests to use, it would be scientists working under the National Institutes of Health.

Plus, I doubt they'll be looking to enroll people who just want to find out if it is now "safe" for them to quit social distancing. They're going to want a fair sampling of the whole population...which is the big reason I'm willing to volunteer. They need some people who have good reasons to believe that they have not been exposed. That's me.
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  #20   ^
Old Sat, Apr-18-20, 21:02
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,529
 
Plan: Very LC, Higher Protein
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Regarding the NIH and test integrity for the study, exactly.
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  #21   ^
Old Sat, Apr-18-20, 21:05
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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[QUOTE=Ms Arielle]The article clearly reports that its the wild wild west with anyone putting out tests, unproven tests.
And...
Quote:
"That's the $64 question," said Dr. Harvey Fineberg, chairman of the NAS committee, who was also on the phone call with the White House. "Does antibody level equate to resistance to getting ill again?"[/QUOTE]


Here, let me finish that quote;

Quote:
"It's like the wild, wild West out there -- or wild East," said association CEO Scott Becker, a reference to the fact that at least half the companies making these tests are in China.
Becker said that in conference call Tuesday that FDA Commissioner Dr. Stephen Hahn said antibody tests would undergo scientific review by the National Cancer Institute.
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  #22   ^
Old Sat, Apr-18-20, 22:52
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
The study Ken linked to is NOT somebody pushing some unverified antibody test with the promise that it'll tell you if you've had the virus and are now immune so can go back to work/etc without worrying.

This is a long-term study by the National Institutes of Health attempting to finally get a handle on just how many people in the U.S. have actually been infected with coronavirus and just how rapidly the coronavirus is spreading among people who haven't been able to get tested. If anybody can get access to VALIDATE antibody tests to use, it would be scientists working under the National Institutes of Health.

Plus, I doubt they'll be looking to enroll people who just want to find out if it is now "safe" for them to quit social distancing. They're going to want a fair sampling of the whole population...which is the big reason I'm willing to volunteer. They need some people who have good reasons to believe that they have not been exposed. That's me.



I think you are right.
And the NIH will use a top quality test....not something run of the mill.

Also..... just because someone has not been exposed recently doesnt mean a future exposure is unlikely. Like the seasonal flu, it is here to stay. Better to beef up one's personal health. Disconcerting to hear the extremely high percent of the population that has metabolic diseases based on how many fit into either "overweight" or "obese" catagories. The real issue is the inflammation and IR, and other issues that are not so visible.

Will be interesting to see how many of our friends here on the forum will shug off this new virus.....I think we have a far better chance than others of resisting this new virus. Fingers crossed.
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  #23   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 09:58
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 2,288
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
Disconcerting to hear the extremely high percent of the population that has metabolic diseases based on how many fit into either "overweight" or "obese" catagories. The real issue is the inflammation and IR, and other issues that are not so visible.


I agree, the real issue is metabolic health, not whether someone is or is not overweight. Yes, there are going to be some people who are metabolically healthy despite having a BMI that puts them into the "overweight" or "obese" category. And, there are going to be some people who are not metabolically healthy despite having a "normal" or even "below normal" BMI.

That said, there IS a high degree of correlation (note, I said correlation, NOT causation) between BMI and metabolic health. Suppose you picked 1,000 people, totally at random, and then ran all the usual tests on them to determine their metabolic health and found the say 473 of them were not metabolically healthy. Then you put all 1000 of them into a big room and told me to go thru and see if I could pick out the 473 who were not metabolically healthy WITHOUT looking at any of the data you had collected on them.

If I simply went thru and picked out the 473 who looked to me to be the most obese, with the most jiggly lard, etc., I suspect I'd get close to 90% correct BECAUSE of the high degree of CORRELATION between obesity and metabolic unhealth.

Thus, it doesn't bother me to hear scientists make estimations that a high percentage of Americans are NOT metabolically healthy because so many of us fit into the obese and overweight categories. Regardless of whether obesity causes metabolic disorders or metabolic disorders cause obesity, a country (such as ours) that has a large percentage of people who are visibly obese is very likely to have a similarly large percentage of people who have metabolic disorders. Meanwhile, in a country where very very few people are visibly obese, the percentage of people with metabolic disorders is very likely to be much much smaller.

This has NOTHING to do with blaming people for being overweight or discounting their health issues as being caused by them being overweight. It is simply to say that when a severely overweight person walks into the doctor's office, the doctor OUGHT to instantly be hyper-vigilant to the possibility that this patient may have, and probably does have, metabolic disorders.
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  #24   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 10:19
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cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,861
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
This has NOTHING to do with blaming people for being overweight or discounting their health issues as being caused by them being overweight. It is simply to say that when a severely overweight person walks into the doctor's office, the doctor OUGHT to instantly be hyper-vigilant to the possibility that this patient may have, and probably does have, metabolic disorders.


Absolutely. This is very well put.
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  #25   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 10:23
jschwab jschwab is offline
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Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bevangel
I agree, the real issue is metabolic health, not whether someone is or is not overweight. Yes, there are going to be some people who are metabolically healthy despite having a BMI that puts them into the "overweight" or "obese" category. And, there are going to be some people who are not metabolically healthy despite having a "normal" or even "below normal" BMI.

That said, there IS a high degree of correlation (note, I said correlation, NOT causation) between BMI and metabolic health. Suppose you picked 1,000 people, totally at random, and then ran all the usual tests on them to determine their metabolic health and found the say 473 of them were not metabolically healthy. Then you put all 1000 of them into a big room and told me to go thru and see if I could pick out the 473 who were not metabolically healthy WITHOUT looking at any of the data you had collected on them.

If I simply went thru and picked out the 473 who looked to me to be the most obese, with the most jiggly lard, etc., I suspect I'd get close to 90% correct BECAUSE of the high degree of CORRELATION between obesity and metabolic unhealth.

Thus, it doesn't bother me to hear scientists make estimations that a high percentage of Americans are NOT metabolically healthy because so many of us fit into the obese and overweight categories. Regardless of whether obesity causes metabolic disorders or metabolic disorders cause obesity, a country (such as ours) that has a large percentage of people who are visibly obese is very likely to have a similarly large percentage of people who have metabolic disorders. Meanwhile, in a country where very very few people are visibly obese, the percentage of people with metabolic disorders is very likely to be much much smaller.

This has NOTHING to do with blaming people for being overweight or discounting their health issues as being caused by them being overweight. It is simply to say that when a severely overweight person walks into the doctor's office, the doctor OUGHT to instantly be hyper-vigilant to the possibility that this patient may have, and probably does have, metabolic disorders.


I don't know that they do the tests, though, on thin people. My mother who is plump but thin enough that her doctor refuses to do an A1C. She has high blood pressure and very obvious problems with her blood sugar crashing all the time. And all she eats is candy and pizza and Coca Cola. But because she's not super overweight, her doctor says she doesn't meet the "criteria" to test her A1C. Honestly, I don't think they even know.
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 10:58
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 2,288
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
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Quote:
jschwab wrote: My mother who is plump but thin enough that her doctor refuses to do an A1C. She has high blood pressure and very obvious problems with her blood sugar crashing all the time. And all she eats is candy and pizza and Coca Cola. But because she's not super overweight, her doctor says she doesn't meet the "criteria" to test her A1C.
That's ridiculous! Clearly her doctor has never heard of "lean diabetes." However, if her BG is going way up and then crashing multiple times each day, it's possible that an A1C might show something close to "normal" because it averages out the highs and lows over something like a 3 month period.

Perhaps you could get her a blood glucose meter and enough strips to test her blood sugar 4 or 5 times a day over a few days. If she tests within 15 to 20 minutes after eating candy/pizza or whatever and then again when she's feeling woozy or hangry or shaky with a blood sugar crash, she'll probably see numbers ranging everywhere from 50s up to well over 200. Take all those numbers, along with time taken and how long it had been since her last meal, to her doctor. If he STILL won't investigate diabetes, then get her to a different doctor cause the one she has now clearly has no business practicing medicine!
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  #27   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 12:01
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is online now
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Posts: 2,559
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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I just sent off an email to be tested. While I haven't had the symptoms of coronavirus, I was sick from the the middle of January to the end of March. I didn't go to my doctor until a month had passed - I kept thinking I would get better. From the symptoms, we both thought either food poisoning or norovirus. She had my poop tested, which came up inconclusive, so she suggested I start a round of OTC probiotics. It took more than a month, but the symptoms did finally go away.

If I had anything contagious during that 2 1/2 months, I freely passed it around to a lot of people in town. I continued to work (until furloughed) & to go to church (until the governor shut down the churches). But I did wash my hands a lot!
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  #28   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 12:14
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 12,457
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonnie OFS
I just sent off an email to be tested. While I haven't had the symptoms of coronavirus, I was sick from the the middle of January to the end of March. I didn't go to my doctor until a month had passed - I kept thinking I would get better. From the symptoms, we both thought either food poisoning or norovirus. She had my poop tested, which came up inconclusive, so she suggested I start a round of OTC probiotics. It took more than a month, but the symptoms did finally go away.

If I had anything contagious during that 2 1/2 months, I freely passed it around to a lot of people in town. I continued to work (until furloughed) & to go to church (until the governor shut down the churches). But I did wash my hands a lot!


Hi Bonnie, Sorry you were so sick. For what it's worth, I do remember that the Norovirus was going around the country during that time period and that sounds like your symptoms.
edited to add: after rereading your post again, concerning Norovirus, it surely doesn't last 2 1/2 months, more like a few days, if you don't get reinfected because it's highly contagious, for sure.

Type A&B flu was around too. My daughter was training a lady with close side by side contact with her when she developed a headache and fever. She left work and went to a clinic and was tested positive with type A flu.

Last edited by Meme#1 : Sun, Apr-19-20 at 12:36.
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  #29   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 16:10
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Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 7,565
 
Plan: EF/Fung IDM/keto
Stats: 375/225.4/175 Female 66.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 75%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
edited to add: after rereading your post again, concerning Norovirus, it surely doesn't last 2 1/2 months, more like a few days, if you don't get reinfected because it's highly contagious, for sure.
And I have no idea what was going around last fall but I was seriously sick for WEEKS. Was sick early in November for several weeks - sort throat, clogged ears, congestion, achiness, sore all over. Got just enough recovered to celebrate Thanksgiving with the family but that very Thanksgiving night I had a relapse and was sicker than ever until nearly Christmas day itself. I was so sick I actually went to the doctor! Something I almost never do as I hate getting in the constant fights over my blood pressure (long story bu always well-controlled and normal at home, and super critical high any time I see a doctor), Tested negative for strep (my throat was so sore I could barely swallow), tested negative for flu. But boy was I one sick puppy. And so was my DiL and a number of other people I knew, so definitely "something" going around that was worse than normal.
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  #30   ^
Old Sun, Apr-19-20, 16:43
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Posts: 12,457
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
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Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
And I have no idea what was going around last fall but I was seriously sick for WEEKS. Was sick early in November for several weeks - sort throat, clogged ears, congestion, achiness, sore all over. Got just enough recovered to celebrate Thanksgiving with the family but that very Thanksgiving night I had a relapse and was sicker than ever until nearly Christmas day itself. I was so sick I actually went to the doctor! Something I almost never do as I hate getting in the constant fights over my blood pressure (long story bu always well-controlled and normal at home, and super critical high any time I see a doctor), Tested negative for strep (my throat was so sore I could barely swallow), tested negative for flu. But boy was I one sick puppy. And so was my DiL and a number of other people I knew, so definitely "something" going around that was worse than normal.



Well at least he tested you for strep and Flu, all he knew of at the time. Did you say he even tested stool? That's pretty thorough.
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