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  #16   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 00:04
jschwab jschwab is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,378
 
Plan: Atkins72/Paleo/NoGrain/IF
Stats: 285/220/200 Female 5 feet 5.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 76%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
I remain somewhat cynical when my extreme exhaustion is countered, even by medical professionals, with "Exercise!"

)~#*(&%)~

My problem is that I don't have enough energy simply to get through my day? Adding additional tasks which require additional energy is not a good idea!

Plus, I lost all this weight WITHOUT increasing my minimal physical activity. I'm not against movement! I just saying people who feel good MOVE GOOD. Not, not.


Have you considered you might be too low? Your weight is on the lower end for your height and maybe that is related to your fatigue?
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  #17   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 02:51
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 22,006
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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Calianna's post basically explains why I don't bother weighing and measuring anymore. Another point: the differences among the actual samples of food.
  • Grow 4 or 5 varieties of tomatoes, taste exactly 15 g of each one, and try and tell me they have the same calorie count. The juicy, tart ones aren't the same as the dense, sweet ones.
  • Look at the difference in marbling among different packages of the same cut of meat.
  • Try n' tell me that a watery pale-yolk February grocery store egg has the same nutrition count as, say, a spring farm egg where the hens eat a completely different (probably better) diet.
  • A while back, I bought some beautiful blueberries that tasted like crap. No sweetness and no blueberry flavour. If you ate them blindfolded, you wouldn't know what you were eating. There's no way they have the same nutrition count as "real" blueberries.
(Getting a bit off-topic, the other reason I don't count/measure anymore is that I cook with too much homemade yogurt and broth, which is never the same twice. If I felt the need to measure again, it would be an awful lot of guesstimating.)
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  #18   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 03:00
Kristine's Avatar
Kristine Kristine is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 22,006
 
Plan: Primal
Stats: 171/155/155 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
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...and on the original topic: an alternative title to this thread could have been, "exercise vs activity."

I think the important points have already been made: don't compare shuffing around a little bit to pushing your body to discomfort, which is required for better fitness. They're both good, but one more so than the other.

My job is like Calianna's grocery store job: it's exhausting, I'm on my feet all day, I do get some heavy lifting in, but probably not enough for the benefits most of us want: retaining muscle and bone mass. I guess I could ask my doc about a bone density scan or what not, but I can tell you that I'm NOT very motivated to cycle, lift weights or much else at the end of the day. It's enough keeping the house clean and food in the fridge!

That said: milder activity still has important benefits. It's great for mental health, probably helps to keep your joints healthy, good for relationships if you're with friends or family, and probably helps sleep. These can contribute to the weight loss game indirectly.
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 05:46
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 13,152
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschwab
Have you considered you might be too low? Your weight is on the lower end for your height and maybe that is related to your fatigue?


The weight loss is six months old. The fatigue predates it by years and is slowly getting better. Thanks greatly to the new diet!

But this challenge is wearing me out 😊
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 05:53
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,281
 
Plan: High-Protein Keto
Stats: 212/197/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: Rural Maine
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And we all know people who eat an enormous amount of food (even junk food), don't exercise, and still stay very lean. Why doesn't calories-in-calories-out work the same way for them? By all accounts, they should be severely overweight, but they're not.
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 06:22
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 13,152
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
And we all know people who eat an enormous amount of food (even junk food), don't exercise, and still stay very lean. Why doesn't calories-in-calories-out work the same way for them? By all accounts, they should be severely overweight, but they're not.


Exactly! The kind of people who put on 10-15 pounds, cut out desserts, take walks at lunchtime, and they are slim again.

We all know those people. We never were those people
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  #22   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 08:40
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,377
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I'm not sure I know anyone like that. I mean, I know they exist because I've seen them documented. But people I know in real life--I have no idea, skinny or fat, how many calories they burn in activity/exercise per day, or how many calories they eat.

On the other side, I'm sure there are people at work who think I'm leaner than usual for my age because I don't eat much at work, most days just a 60 gram packet of poutine cheese curds that claims to have 200 calories. Not everybody knows that when I'm in maintenance, I go through a half liter of heavy cream a day, that's 1600 calories before adding my protein foods.

Just cutting out dessert--one way to make that effective is to eat way too much dessert to start with. I'm somebody who can lose weight by cutting out dessert, but my dessert is 800+ calories of homemade heavy cream ice cream.

I don't think counting calories or measuring is useless. But the smaller the deficit you're shooting for, the less likely you are to even have one.

The stereotypical bodybuilder diet--tuna and lean chicken breast, white rice, broccoli.

Or the fish and rice cakes guy;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fae8gvRiiCM


Limited variety of foods does make it easier to portion out a more precise amount of food. It still might not be as precise as you imagine. But if on paper, one month, you're eating 2500 calories of such foods, and then the next month you eat 2000 calories of such foods--you likely are eating 20 percent less calories or so. If you're eating from restaurant menu boards, and varying your choices, maybe not so much. Lean protein sources--not my favourite, but variation in calories will be less. A fatty pork chop--I don't think I'll know, looking at the fat streaks, that my pork chop has 20 percent fat versus 30. In terms of keto--if you wanted to go the calorie counting route, very lean protein sources and very fat fat sources--butter, lard, heavy cream--is probably more precise than various fatty meats.

Probably on average, even with fatty meats, if you stay to the same cuts at the same store, you'll know you're eating less if you go to say 5 ounce portions of pork chops versus 8 ounce. I measure more for keeping protein from going too high because I target ketosis. There I don't care as much that the numbers aren't quite real because if one meal has 6 grams of protein per ounce of meat and the next 8, it doesn't really make that much difference.
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 12:11
BawdyWench's Avatar
BawdyWench BawdyWench is offline
Posts: 8,281
 
Plan: High-Protein Keto
Stats: 212/197/170 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 36%
Location: Rural Maine
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I personally know several people like this. How is it they can magically balance the calories in with calories out to stay lean? How can they possibly balance intake and expenditure so precisely day in and day out over years so that they never gain or lose? That's the point I was trying to make when I said that CICO is not reality.
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 12:49
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 4,867
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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I weigh and measure everything, not to calculate CICO but to keep track of my macros and micros. I realize that the measurements are not precise but they do give a pretty good ball park estimate of what I am eating and help keep me on track. It has become a habit and it's working for me. It has certainly worked over the past 6 weeks when I was taking Marty Kendall's nutrient optimization masterclasss. I have never bought into the CICO theory of eating and weightloss but I do think macros and micros matter so I use weighing and measuring to regulate my intake. Not for everyone but works for me.
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 13:43
wheeler's Avatar
wheeler wheeler is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 828
 
Plan: High protein/HIIT
Stats: 234/197/174 Female 5'9"
BF:
Progress: 62%
Location: Alaska
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I am somebody who can exercise a tremendous amount while eating mostly LCHF and not lose, or even gain slowly. This has happened to me while biking 50-70 miles a week, or more recently while swimming 5 miles a week. And all that exercise makes me more hungry! However, the exercise has it's definite benefits for me, a much lower blood pressure and better mood amongst other factors. So I'm not willing to give it up. The only thing that works for me to lose weight is daily IF with once a week 36 hour fast, combined with strict LCHF. It's a daily struggle!
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  #26   ^
Old Mon, Feb-17-20, 15:26
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,560
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: NE WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
I weigh and measure everything, not to calculate CICO but to keep track of my macros and micros.


Me, too, so I can keep track of carbs & protein to keep my blood sugar on an even keel. The measuring & keeping a record is for accountability. Without it, it's way too easy for my food intake to creep up & I won't notice until my bg and/or weight suddenly goes up.
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  #27   ^
Old Tue, Feb-18-20, 13:36
Nrracing Nrracing is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 747
 
Plan: Custom 22/2 Clean Fast
Stats: 290/258/210 Male 72.5
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Missouri
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I have found that is hard for me also, the weight does come off, but it takes a while. I have to be very carful what I do in my situation. I found that weighing 2 time a week (Tuesdays & Fridays) It helps me see what is working.

I fast 20 plus hours a day most of the week and switch it up so my body does not get used to it. might go from 20/4 to 19/5 to see what happens.

We are all different. I also just walk at a good pace and use very light weights.
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  #28   ^
Old Tue, Feb-18-20, 22:17
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 15,047
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/230/200 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 45%
Location: Massachusetts
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1. If exercise was the answer I would be thiiiiin. Worked at a warehouse picking orders at top speed 7.5 hrs a day ( two breaks). Annual contest of who walked most steps in a week at the company..... NONE of the pickers participated. Too easy to win. We did more steps in a day than other employees in a week.

2. I never lost weight as a picker eating SAD.

3. General house hold chores plus vlc = weight loss
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  #29   ^
Old Wed, Feb-19-20, 06:03
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,377
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BawdyWench
I personally know several people like this. How is it they can magically balance the calories in with calories out to stay lean? How can they possibly balance intake and expenditure so precisely day in and day out over years so that they never gain or lose? That's the point I was trying to make when I said that CICO is not reality.



I know people who probably think I have a massive appetite--because they mostly see me at weekend get togethers or at holidays. And people who mostly see me eat the odd 200 calorie or so packet of cheese curds. Personally, while my weight is pretty stable over time, my intake and expenditure isn't precise day in and day out, it's just that it balances out over time.

Not that I disagree that conscious CICO is untenable. If you don't have the unconscious regulators of activity and food intake on your side, losing weight is like pushing on a heavy spring and just gets harder the more weight you've already lost.
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