Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jan-06-20, 11:00
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,239
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default Fructose & Effects on Metabolism Podcast

Very detailed podcast with Rick Johnson on the role of fructose in our metabolism. Gout or the presence of uric acid is covered, as is fructose and cancer.

This statement got my attention:
Quote:
"If you simply had no fructose in your diet, most of the bad things we think about metabolically would go away."


Enjoy:
https://peterattiamd.com/rickjohnson/

Downloading the podcast provides better control.

Edited to add: there's so much depth in this podcast that can serve as valuable information to those of us with WOEs that eliminate sugars, and the information confirms many beliefs about fructose being a health issue on many fronts. High Blood Pressure, T2D, Alzheimer's, cancer, gout, uric acid, heart disease, and other metabolic syndrome afflictions are touched on here. I'm curious what others' experiences are with this topic.

Last edited by GRB5111 : Mon, Jan-06-20 at 14:37.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jan-06-20, 15:16
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,514
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/170/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 110%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

That was the most informative podcast I have heard. I learned more than I can remember.
I'll watch it again when I can take notes.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jan-06-20, 15:37
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,439
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 230/179/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 113%
Location: Florida
Default

Couldn't hear the podcast (*$&~&!* low Internet - but that's the price of living in almost paradise.)

I avoid fructose, including minimizing the fructose found in fruit (including the fruit called vegetables or grain like corn).

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Mon, Jan-06-20, 15:49
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,101
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

The foods that contain fructose surprized me.

Quote:
People who have fructose intolerance should limit high-fructose foods, such as juices, apples, grapes, watermelon, asparagus, peas and zucchini. Some lower fructose foods such as bananas, blueberries, strawberries, carrots, avocados, green beans and lettuce may be tolerated in limited quantities with meals.Nov 29, 2016
Mayo Clinic faq-20058097
Fructose intolerance: Which foods to avoid? - Mayo Clinic
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jan-07-20, 07:46
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,373
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

We know that the total carbs in apples, grapes, peas, and watermelon are relatively high, and therefore off the menu for LCers, except in very small amounts. But the 'high" amount of fructose in the LC foods mentioned is only in relation to proportion -

zucchini (raw) has a total of 4.2 g carbs/1 cup serving. Of that, 2.1 g is sugars:
Sucrose 3.72 g
Glucose 0.930 g
Fructose 1.178 g


asparagus (raw) total 5.3 g carbs/1 cup serving. Of that 2.5 g is sugars:
Sucrose 3.08 g
Glucose 0.871 g
Fructose 1.340 g




Yes, they both have slightly more fructose than sucrose and glucose combined, but total carbs are still quite low - how many LCers are going to eat more than 1 cup of zucchini or asparagus at a time? Most likely our fructose consumption will be halved, because normally, we only eat 1/2 cup servings of veggies.

Compare that to the darling of the nutritionists a 1 cup portion of "low fructose" bananas:

bananas (raw): total 51 g carbs/1 cup serving. Of that 27.5 is sugars:
Sucrose 5.377 g
Glucose 11.204 g
Fructose 10.912 g

Maltose .225 g

The others on their list of low fructose foods:


carrots (raw, chopped): total 12.3 g carbs/cup. Of that, 6.1 g sugars:
Sugars 6.1 g
Sucrose 4.596 g
Glucose 0.755 g
Fructose 0.704 g


Strawberries (raw): total 11.7 g carbs/cup. Of that, 7.4 g sugars:
Sugars 7.4 g
Sucrose 0.714
Glucose 3.025 g
Fructose 3.708 g

blueberries(raw):total 21.4 g carbs/1 cup. Of that 14.7 g sugars:
Sugars 14.7 g
Sucrose 0.163 g
Glucose 7.222 g
Fructose 7.355 g

green beans(raw): total 6.97 carbs/1 cup. Of that, 3.26 g sugars:
Sugars 3.26 g
Sucrose 0.36 g
Glucose 1.51 g
Fructose 1.39 g

avocado (raw, pureed): total 19.9g carbs/1 cup serving. Of that, 0.7 g sugars:
Sugars 0.7 g
Sucrose 0.138 g
Glucose 0.184 g
Fructose 0.184 g
Galactose 0.184 g


If this list is trying to direct people who are seriously fructose intolerant to lower fructose foods, it's not doing a very good job of it, because the differences are absolutely minimal, especially for the size portions that most people would eat, and instead of directing them primarily to foods which are naturally also lower in overall sugars (as a way of automatically reducing the amount of fructose), they're only looking at the ratio of glucose and sucrose to fructose.



The inclusion of the obviously high fructose bananas (even if they are slightly lower in fructose than sucrose) in the list makes me wonder if they were funded by Chiquita.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jan-07-20, 08:19
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,373
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

I had forgotten to look up lettuce - seems that they all have fructose in them too - all at slightly higher amounts than the glucose in them. There may have been very small amounts overall, but given the overall amount, there's no logic to putting them on the low fructose list, while zucchini and asparagus made the high fructose list.



I couldn't find a breakdown of the sugars in spinach or kale, but based on the apparent criteria for the Mayo Clinic list, broccoli should have made the high fructose list, while potatoes should have made the low fructose list.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
The foods that contain fructose surprized me.



Even though I couldn't find a breakdown of the sugar content of a lot of typical LC veggies, most vegetable matter contains a mixture of glucose, sucrose, fructose, and maybe a couple other types of -ose (galactose, maltose). We know that all fruits contain fructose - after all fructose is fruit sugar. But there's also some in most veggies, even if a very minimal amount.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jan-07-20, 11:10
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,101
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Thank you fir tracking down the detail on each foid item. It totally thru me for a loop.

The Mayo blurb did point out the fructose content but not the total which is the real actor.

Thanks for settling this. My head has stopped spinning.

I remember an oncologist telkung me to eat bananas as it was a safer source of potassium than a 99 mg pill. Perhaps Dana Farber is also funded by Chicita bananas...lol ( I use low salt now, over 300 mg potassium in a serving !!)
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Tue, Jan-07-20, 13:35
Calianna's Avatar
Calianna Calianna is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,373
 
Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 50%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Thank you fir tracking down the detail on each foid item. It totally thru me for a loop.

The Mayo blurb did point out the fructose content but not the total which is the real actor.

Thanks for settling this. My head has stopped spinning.

I remember an oncologist telkung me to eat bananas as it was a safer source of potassium than a 99 mg pill. Perhaps Dana Farber is also funded by Chicita bananas...lol ( I use low salt now, over 300 mg potassium in a serving !!)



Working in a grocery store for so many years, I had a lot of customers who were buying 6 or more bananas every single day, and I can almost guarantee you it was because their doctor told them that they needed to eat bananas for the potassium. The sad thing about this is that many of those customers loading up on bananas every day were seriously overweight (which means they likely had metabolic problems, or full blown diabetes).


There are also lots of sources of potassium which are far better than bananas.



My favorite website to learn about the true nutritional value of various foods is nutritiondata.com. You can search for a food, or you can search by serving size, nutrient, and food category. For instance, I just searched for best sources of potassium, lowest in total carbohydrate. and went with the default 100 g serving. (I also have a nutrition facts app on my phone, which sometimes provides more detailed nutrient information than nutritiondata.com)Turns out the absolute best source of potassium is cream of tartar - at 16,502 mg/100 g serving. Of course no one eats a 100 g serving of cream of tartar (also known as tartaric acid - a byproduct of the wine making industry, and most often used as the acidic component of baking powder, or in combination with baking soda to raise quick breads), but 1 teaspoon of cream of tartar still has 495 mg potassium, which still beats out a medium banana (only 422mg potassium).


The best 100g servings of typical food to provide high potassium though are mostly fish/seafood items - they have over 500 mg per 100 g serving. Various cuts of beef, chicken, and pork are also not far behind.


That must have been one heck of a marketing campaign by Chiquita to convince everyone that bananas were your best dietary source of potassium, because bananas aren't even the best source of potassium among fruits! A 100 g serving of bananas only has 358mg (the medium banana has a little more potassium, but only because it happens to weigh a little more than 100 g), while avocados, guavas, tamarinds, and plantains are among fruits with at least 450 mg potassium/100 g serving. (Dried fruits are generally higher, sometimes much higher - but everything is concentrated with dried fruit)
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jan-07-20, 13:40
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,239
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Just an observation, I place more confidence in the detailed discussion with Rick Johnson based on latest research than with a Mayo Clinic list of foods to avoid for those with fructose intolerance.

We run the risk of comparing apples to oranges (yes, intended), as new findings indicate that fructose consumption, even for those without an intolerance, has a role in leading to the many symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome. I always found that the incessantly repeated mandate to eat fruit (and certain vegetables) was overplayed. Now, we're getting some confirmation.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jan-08-20, 12:18
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,857
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

My first response was "who the heck is Rick Johnson." I guess Peter Atillia has a closer friendship with Richard Johnson than most people I've heard interview him.

He mentions the observation that fructose doesn't increase uric acid levels being an artifact of testing when fasted. Looking at a paper looking at fructose disposal--they make that claim, based on NHANES data--their source doesn't even mention whether subjects were fasted (highly unlikely that they weren't). In all sorts of area, fasted bloodwork will make for less variation. Fed bloodwork is probably less predictable or repeatable even in an individual, but that might be what makes it interesting. Going to the source's sources yields various studies where the original claim that fructose raised uric acid levels came from in the first place--um, direct observations of fructose raising uric acid in the direct post-consumption period. People talk like they've debunked, they've just narrowed the window. Maybe the fasted uric acid would matter more if people actually spent much time in the fasted state.

Quote:
Incremental amounts of added free glucose to a 50 gram fructose load dose-dependently attenuated malabsorption symptoms, and at the equimolar mixture of the two (up to 100 grams total sugars), no malabsorption was observed. Thus, how studies are designed to deliver the various sugars can have an impact on sugar uptake and appearance in the blood.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3533803/
I guess ratio matters--but that dietician (the Mayo clinic one) probably doesn't take into account absolute quantity of fructose. Maybe if the ratio is off you malabsorb proportionately more but proportionately more isn't much if we're talking zucchini. I can think of better reasons not to eat zucchini.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jan-08-20, 13:02
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,101
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111
Just an observation, I place more confidence in the detailed discussion with Rick Johnson based on latest research than with a Mayo Clinic list of foods to avoid for those with fructose intolerance.

We run the risk of comparing apples to oranges (yes, intended), as new findings indicate that fructose consumption, even for those without an intolerance, has a role in leading to the many symptoms of Metabolic Syndrome. I always found that the incessantly repeated mandate to eat fruit (and certain vegetables) was overplayed. Now, we're getting some confirmation.



yes, I forever hear " 5 fruits and veg a day " interpreted as "5 fruits a day" and no veg is fine.
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Wed, Jan-08-20, 16:12
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 12,478
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Raspberries Half a cup (60 grams) contains 3 grams of carbs.
Blackberries Half a cup (70 grams) contains 4 grams of carbs.
Strawberries Eight medium-sized (100 grams) contains 6 grams of carbs.


Cherries are 1 carb apiece. I prefer six of those to 8 strawberries, but they are the limit of my fruit consumption, and I don't eat them every day, either.
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Wed, Jan-08-20, 17:01
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 11,786
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

Yum Cherries are my fav. Well worth a couple of carbs especially when you're totally OP like you are. I had some last year that were at their peak of ripeness and that cherry juice was heavenly...
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Wed, Jan-08-20, 20:23
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,101
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 255/214/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Planted 3 cherry bushes two springs ago....

Will be a couple years before fruiting though.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Wed, Jan-08-20, 20:41
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,492
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
Default

Anyone here with serious fructose issues (malabsorption etc.) don't forget sucrose is half fructose and half glucose, so may need to count part of that, too.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:49.


Copyright © 2000-2020 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.