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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Dec-25-19, 05:17
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Default Our ancestors were carnivorous super-predators: a vegan debunking

Yes, maybe I took my recent, work-related, holiday lunch from the vegan caterer personally!

This is the second year the organizer ordered from them, but THIS year took feedback from my co-workers: and included real meat and cheese sandwiches. They were marked with the company's name, Boar's Head, a NYC favorite of mine. This helps the vegans not touch the deadly meat, I suppose

Despite my request, this person got me a sandwich on gluten-free bread. I think it was turkey (skimpy and I hope it was real) and cheese (paperthin and I hope it was not soy) along with 1.5 inches of unknown vegetation and sauce. Despite eating only the sandwich guts because I'm low carb, I still got 10% of a reaction, which turned me off the other sandwiches. Usually I eat 2-3, sans bread.

We got rice crackers, which I wasn't even tempted to try, since all the dips were BEANS. Not even a cheese plate!

Damn vegans.

In a 2016 article, Our ancestors were carnivorous super-predators, so do we really have a choice about eating meat? I found a lot of good information I wanted to share.

Quote:
Yet the decisions we make about what to eat are a complicated affair. They’re never a simple case of eat what’s best for your health or what naturally suits our physiology.


Except that IS what we are all supposed to DO, isn't it?

Quote:
Our ancestors evolved to be super-predators, with meat eating and sharing a key survival strategy for our kind for millions of years. So do we really have a choice to eat meat today?


What I really dislike about vegans, and what makes me regard it as more of a cult than a choice, is how they spread lies about meat eating, and try to restrict what WE eat. Last year I ate a cheese salad from the offerings. It was okay. I know the organizer is trying to "be healthy" but it's not. And it's sure not festive.

In fact, vegan food is the most destructive way to eat for one's digestive system. From staying away from soy, gluten, and beans, I'm experiencing my best health in years. So I know SOMETHING that doesn't agree with me got put in ALL the sandwiches. I didn't dare eat more of it.

Quote:
Much of the dietary advice found on the internet might be well meaning, but a substantial amount of it is misleading and frequently smacks of anti-intellectualism.

...

The debate about meat, and whether we humans have evolved to eat it, has to be one of the best examples of bullshit seen on the web.


Growing up as a bookworm with an interest in anthropology, it was a GIVEN that not only were humans meat-eaters, it was the development of cooking and hunting skills which grew our big brains. On protein. On fat. Like the Inuit, or the Sami, who never got the amount of vegetable matter in their diet questioned because they knew what they ate. Aside from seeking out new greens in the spring, plant material was scarce near the poles. That's a fact.

Quote:
Far too often it tries to rewrite our evolutionary history by invoking pseudoscience.

Some pro-vegetarian or vegan-promoting websites mistakenly claim that humans shouldn’t eat meat because we evolved to be herbivores.

The substance of their arguments is often traceable back to the influential but pseudoscientific views of vegan physician Milton R. Mills.


Quote:
Our human ecological and life-history strategy evolved around acquiring and sharing hard-to-catch, but large pay-off foods such as big mammals and fish.

...

To claim we shouldn’t eat meat because we aren’t anatomically identical to carnivores demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of how evolution has worked.


Read the whole thing, there's lots of good stuff. Not as accurate I would like, but then, I do a lot of informed sources and I guess the writer doesn't. But I appreciate someone "mainstream" tackling the history.

The best delving can be found here:

We Must Reclaim Human Health, Sustainability, Environmental Justice, And Morality From The Birdseed Brigade in case you are not familiar with this site. Block out some time, great stuff there.

You're welcome!
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Dec-25-19, 06:50
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
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Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
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Default

What is so non-sensical to me is the generally uncontested assumption that a vegetarian or vegan diet is both nutritionally superior and morally superior when it is neither. It is definitely anti-intellectual since it is based on totally unfounded assumptions which unfortunately seem to have infiltrated so much of our world.
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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Dec-25-19, 09:09
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
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Default

Quote:
Most of it promotes our food choices as a simple binary decision: eat this, don’t eat that; this is good for you, that’s bad.

When there is an agenda beyond human health and well being, all cited science becomes irrelevant. Reviewing this information, it occurs to me that determining whether food was good or bad started happening more frequently about the time McGovern's group created the food pyramid. The irony in this is that's also the time that "food" manufacturers started producing carbage. It's become a damaging behavior pattern since then given all the voices and agendas out there. Good for people to start their awareness of what's going on.

Thanks for the link to Gnolls.org, WereBear. I like that site.
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Dec-25-19, 09:29
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
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I don't remember where I read it, but there is a theory that the human brain jumped leaps and bounds in intelligence from it's predecessors when the humans started eating cooked meat.

The theory was that cooking made the nutrients more available.

I don't know if that's true or not but I do no this.

No one says sly as a rabbit, nope it's a fox.

Cunning as a cow? Nope it's a wolf.

As intelligent as a dove? Nope it's a crow.

Omnivores and carnivores are just smarter than herbivores.

That's enough for me.

I got some veggie propaganda that showed cows, pigs, chickens and other animals living happily on the farm with the farmer. The big flaw is that if the animals weren't used as a food source, they wouldn't be on the farm. Who needs a herd of pet cows?

Yes the Veggie folks are like certain religions, trying to force their views on everybody.

I'm an omnivore and they aren't going to change me.

I'm also a picky eater, so before going to a party where food is served, I eat something. At the party I can just eat a little, what appeals to me and my WOE, and if there is nothing I like I don't go hungry because I've eaten already.

Bob
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Dec-25-19, 09:31
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
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How do these people even function in the world with such poor sources on energy, is my thought. Surely it effects their brain function.

Beans and rice crackers yum....NOT
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Dec-25-19, 09:41
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
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Quote:
This is the second year the organizer ordered from them, but THIS year took feedback from my co-workers: and included real meat and cheese sandwiches. They were marked with the company's name, Boar's Head, a NYC favorite of mine. This helps the vegans not touch the deadly meat, I suppose


I love Boars Head!!

Yes, Turkey is their gateway meat of choice as a skinless boneless option which helps block their mental torment.

beans, hummus, peanut butter, there, that's their full menu
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Dec-25-19, 10:21
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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The vegies and fruits and nuts and root veg and grains available today didnot exist as such until recent times.

Our favorite veg, and I mean world wide, the tomato was reguarded as poisonous until very recently.

The carrot was a pencil lead thin root until somewhat recently.

Acorns.... a native winter food....no longer a prefered food.

Wild hazelnuts are half the size of selected varieties...

etc, etc, etc

Wild stock like white tail deer, quail, rabbit, buffalo, fish etc are substantial , meaning not much different than domestic stock. Domestication has not made as much improvenent as vegetable selection has.

We could not have survived on a vegetarian diet.

We are being told this bull sh-- yet not tackling the real cause of global warming.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Dec-26-19, 03:23
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
How do these people even function in the world with such poor sources on energy, is my thought. Surely it effects their brain function.

Beans and rice crackers yum....NOT


I would say it does. B12 hangs in there, from storage, for a few years; but after that, it's lack makes people cranky and fanatical.

Really!
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Dec-26-19, 03:38
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
The vegies and fruits and nuts and root veg and grains available today didnot exist as such until recent times....

We could not have survived on a vegetarian diet.

We are being told this bull sh-- yet not tackling the real cause of global warming.


SO TRUE. In figuring out my current diet, I drew from a lifelong interest in Viking, Sami, and Inuit cultures. Greens in the spring, berries in the fall, basically.

If you look at hunter/gatherers who have a lot of starch in their diet, the gatherers spend most of their time rendering it less toxic; just what you want in food stuff, of course. And the hunters spend a lot of time bringing in even small game, because calories keeps you going, but protein and fat keep you ALIVE.

The fantasy of wandering through a garden of Eden grazing like a cow is just that; a fantasy.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Dec-26-19, 07:34
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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We are hunter- gatherers. Going vegetarian is the poorest diet when looking at world food consumption. Basically when the land cannot provide for the people anymore, for any number of reasons. As you said, its survival, not living.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Dec-26-19, 08:26
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
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Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
<...snip...>
We are being told this bull sh-- yet not tackling the real cause of global warming.

Exactly.

And we are giving the fraud news that cow farts are causing it. The corporate food conglomerates would love to plow up all the pastureland that is left and turn it into their profit machines, with the help of generous tax subsidies and price support handouts by the taxpayers. (Yes, billions of our tax dollars go directly to corporate farmers buy enough food to keep the price high. I read in the Miami Herald years ago the Sugar Industry gets $4billion per year to buy enough excess crop to keep the supply low and make the US consumer pay the highest price for sugar in the world.)

The truth is that as long as you don't eat corn-fed or corn-finished beef, grazing cows are actually better for the environment. What the propagandists are telling you is fraud.

To grow something other than grass in grasslands, you need tons of fertilizer, tons of herbicides, and oceans of fresh water.

On the other hand the cows eat the grass, fertilize the grass with their excrement and survive on nothing other than what Mother Nature provides.

And according to a study by Cornell University and the Environmental Defense fund the manufacture of fertilizer puts 100 times more methane in the atmosphere than the cow burps and farts. Pointing the finger at cow farts is fraud news (Why do I say fraud instead of fake? It's a lie attempting to steal your money).

Here is one condensed article about methane, cows, and fertilizer:

https://earther.gizmodo.com/just-on...pa-h-1835376030

Remember the American West of the 1800s had billions of bison living on the grass that mother nature provided without any help from any human.

So the more people turn vegan, the easier it will be to fool them, because as we all know, the smartest animals eat other animals (lions, tigers, wolves, foxes, crows, sharks, chimps, and so on as opposed to cows, sheep, gnus, antelope, rabbits, and so on).

We all need to counter the fraudulent propaganda to educate our friends and co-workers before the grasslands are gone and the price of meat goes sky high.

Bob
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  #12   ^
Old Thu, Dec-26-19, 12:09
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Calianna Calianna is online now
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Quote:
Aside from seeking out new greens in the spring, plant material was scarce near the poles. That's a fact.




This is what gets me - plant foods are scarce even in temperate regions much of the year. Before agriculture, what did people eat during the late fall when the last of the fall greens and fruits had died off, until mid spring, when the early spring plants had produced something edible? Clearly, they ate animal products - nothing else would have been available, period.



Even after rudimentary food preservation methods were developed (mostly drying fruit, or keeping some root veggies or winter squashes in a place protected from freezing, such as a cave, or a root cellar), there was no way possible to preserve or store enough plant foods to survive from late fall to mid-spring - 5-7 servings daily of fruit? another 5-7 servings of vegetables? No way.



And that's not even going into the problems with eating grains or legumes that hadn't been properly processed to make them edible.


They had to rely on animal products that would be available year round, and what they were able to preserve was used more as a supplemental/survival food, for when the hunting/fishing didn't go well, because the sheer volume of plant foods that would have needed to be preserved or stored for each individual person to survive on only those foods for several months is well beyond what they could have possibly harvested.
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