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  #31   ^
Old Sat, Dec-14-19, 13:35
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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I agree, that eliminating it all together is the only way to go.
Out of site permanently and at 100% will end any cravings that people once had.

Moderation is for the diabetic who still wants their cake and eat it too!
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  #32   ^
Old Sun, Dec-15-19, 04:48
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
P. S. WereBear, I see ads (on Facebook) all the time for NOOM. I've never clicked on it, because I figure that would trigger an avalanche of ads. But I've been curious. I'm with you: calorie-counting is tedious (I've done it plenty!) and probably not that effective unless the food choices are curated (that's the buzzword now for discernment.)


NOOM is the same-old, same-old, only in an app. Since it's so hot right now, I'll review it on the media site

Last edited by WereBear : Sun, Dec-15-19 at 05:44.
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, Dec-15-19, 09:19
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
<...snip...>
Bariatric surgery seems to be near the top of the weight management list of the medical community, for people who have "tried everything." <...>

I do not personally know anyone (that I know of!) who has had bariatric surgery. But as I understand it, the dietary intervention that must be used to sustain the results is far more strenuous and restrictive than Atkins or Keto or LCHF or Weight Watchers or any other diet known to humanity. <...>

I know two people. (In my non-medical opinion, I think removing part of your digestive tract will also deprive you of necessary nutrients.)

One it worked great for, but yes, his diet is as restrictive as keto (but different).

The second one lost weight at first, but unable to continue on the restrictive diet, she is now as obese as she was before the surgery.

IMO anything invasive to the body should be done only as an emergency procedure when all else fails or when something is immediately life threatening.

If I were a doctor, I'd force them to eat the pro-surgery diet for 6 months in order to prepare for the surgery - without cheating. Daily food logs must be kept. Of course, most wouldn't need the surgery then, and as a doc, I wouldn't make as much money.

Remember we have 'for profit' medicine in the USA, so many, I dare say most medical decisions are for the doctor's profit first, and the patient's health the secondary concern. If there are two ways to do it, the more profitable will be recommended even if it isn't quite as good as the less profitable method.

This 'for profit' medical system is the reason why all the other industrialized countries spend less than half what we spend in the US and live longer, healthier lives.

This 'for profit' medical system is also the reason why people like the corporate grain farmers can give huge donations to the American Heart Association along with manipulated field tests and data (read tacit bribes) showing that grains are good for you and fat is bad.

Trying not to get too political here, but if you understand these things you are the road to understanding what to do to protect yourself and make yourself healthier.

Bob
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  #34   ^
Old Sun, Dec-15-19, 09:48
bluesinger's Avatar
bluesinger bluesinger is offline
Doing My Best
Posts: 4,924
 
Plan: LC/CancerRecovery
Stats: 170/135/130 Female 62 inches
BF:24%
Progress: 88%
Location: Nevada Desert, USA
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Bob, we're in agreement. You and I have been at this for a long time. You are more successful than I. One of the reasons I think this is because I was always looking for a short cut. Some way that I could eat ice cream, I suppose. Ice cream is my danger food.

There's almost no dietary regime I haven't tried along the way, but the only WOE for me which isn't painful has been LCHF.

That doesn't mean I don't think every day that suddenly it will turn on me. That the accumulated dietary fat will make me ill. This is the power all those lies bring to the table. The power to make us doubt that what has kept us healthy all these years will eventually kill us.
Quote:
This 'for profit' medical system is the reason why all the other industrialized countries spend less than half what we spend in the US and live longer, healthier lives. This 'for profit' medical system is also the reason why people like the corporate grain farmers can give huge donations to the American Heart Association along with manipulated field tests and data (read tacit bribes) showing that grains are good for you and fat is bad.

Still, the years pile up and I'm still healthy. Every year gives lie to their prefabricated "facts."
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  #35   ^
Old Mon, Dec-16-19, 18:04
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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I was concerned about the dietary fat myself.

A couple of years ago I had an emergency in my on-line business. The company that purchased my shopping cart was giving away my wares - for free

It took 4 days to figure out the problem, and then I had to re-write the cgi code and on-line database for 600 products, one at a time. It took about a half hour per product. Aaaaarrrrgggghhhh.

In those 4 days before they figured out what the problem was, my heart was skipping beats. I was worried the stress was giving me heart attacks. So I went to my doctor who sent me to a very well respected cardiologist in town.

They did four tests (1) a monitor I wore for a week to record the skips (2) radiation to see if blood was getting to the heart (3) treadmill stress test and (4) ultra-sound to see if my circulation was good.

The doctors and staff were amazed and said my circulatory system was as healthy as someone 20 years younger than my actual age.

My wife was in the room when the ultra sound lady did my legs and actually let out a squeal of excitement to my wife about how well the blood was circulating.

I can't say if the high fat is good or bad for you, but it obviously isn't for me.

Think about this. The Inuits used to eat high fat diets before the SAD got to Alaska and then never had either cancer or heart disease. The French eat very high fat diets and have a low heart disease rate. The doctors call it the French Exception and the Inuit Exception. I call it evidence that fat is actually good for us.

But I'm no doctor. I just think for myself.

I'm 73 with a 50 year old body inside. I've been on keto since it was called Atkins Induction, and this year I caught a cold, the first in over 15 years. One day of runny nose, one day of a mild cough, and the next day I was back to normal. I spent a week in Vienna, went off plan a little to enjoy their food, and I think that's why the cold got me.

I'm convinced that keto is helping me live a longer and healthier life. I guess I'll eventually find out if I'm right or wrong.

Bob
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  #36   ^
Old Tue, Dec-17-19, 06:50
bkloots's Avatar
bkloots bkloots is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,147
 
Plan: LC--Atkins
Stats: 195/162/150 Female 62in
BF:
Progress: 73%
Location: Kansas City, MO
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Bob, isn't it a good feeling, in more ways than one, to know that your innards are functioning youthfully? I wouldn't wish anyone a heart scare, but it's good to have some data.

Veering away from "sustainability" to Modern Medicine, another observation: I picked up a subscription news magazine yesterday, and couldn't help noticing all the multi-page ads for prescription medicines--you know, colorful ads until you get to the two pages of fine print describing the risk factors. I don't watch tv, but I gather you can't get past ten minutes of tv without a Pharma ad.

Two of the ads were for pills to reduce A1C in non-Type 2 diabetic adults.

Hey! Have I got a suggestion for that, and it won't cost you a penny!!

I haven't been to medical school lately, but I suspect a great many class hours are devoted to pharmaceutical intervention and surgery. I've been told that nothing much is devoted to diet and nutrition. So-called Nutritionists or Dietitians are the underpaid, undereducated side of health care, and all their textbooks teach them the wrong things.

It's a very sad cultural turn of events, and costs us massively.
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  #37   ^
Old Tue, Dec-17-19, 07:27
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,283
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/125/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Vermont
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkloots
Veering away from "sustainability" to Modern Medicine, another observation: I picked up a subscription news magazine yesterday, and couldn't help noticing all the multi-page ads for prescription medicines--you know, colorful ads until you get to the two pages of fine print describing the risk factors. I don't watch tv, but I gather you can't get past ten minutes of tv without a Pharma ad.


I don't have a tv either and I hadn't watched any tv shows for a long time until recently when I streamed a few on my computer. The pharmaceutical ads were horrifying. Videos of the good life being lived due to the medications beings pushed and then the long list of possible side effects. It made me wonder how anyone could possibly listen to these ads and then decide they wanted to try the drug.
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  #38   ^
Old Tue, Dec-17-19, 07:43
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotonpal
It made me wonder how anyone could possibly listen to these ads and then decide they wanted to try the drug.


Never underestimate the power of Freudian ego defenses. People tune out downsides, especially when desperate.
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  #39   ^
Old Wed, Jan-01-20, 03:18
PollyWaffl PollyWaffl is offline
New Member
Posts: 10
 
Plan: Keto, LC, IF
Stats: 231/220/165 Female 155cm
BF:
Progress:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly B
The ONLY thing it might be is more expensive. And that is a shame, that it costs MORE to eat healthy foods, than junk foods.


I'm actually finding it much cheaper to eat low carb. I am not buying take-away food or manufactured, processed foods. I also don't go much for the carb replacements, sweeteners, different flours, etc... I eat simple, health and tasty meat, veg & fats that fill me up good & proper, so I need to eat 1, sometimes 2, meals a day. Saves me heaps of time too! Love it.
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  #40   ^
Old Wed, Jan-01-20, 04:13
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Other countries don't let prescription drugs be advertised. And it's ridiculous that we do, because this is supposed to be serious drugs for a medical condition: advertising is for new cell phones and clothes where choices ARE personal.

There's two factors which will make eradicating drug ads difficult. One is that pharmaceutical companies love selling supposedly life-saving drugs the same way Coke and Pepsi is sold. They sell MORE that way. People feel foolishly empowered by CHOOSING a path out of their present health difficulty. Why did the doctor go through all those years of schooling and residency? They can just pick their drug flavor out of a machine!

The other is that network television LIVES on ads for things which shouldn't be advertised. They want these big companies to spend metric tons of money because they NEED metric tons of money, and they can't compete with streaming services. Broadcast TV is "free" but get this:

I'm a Star Trek: The Original Series fan, so DH will tuck me in when I'm feeling low, and put on Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. What we noticed is that these uncut episodes designed for a one hour time slot are 56 minutes long.

A new hour-long show? More like 45 minutes long. That's how many commercials they are cramming in now.

As someone with a serious illness who has researched the behind off my own subject, I want to remind everyone that these drugs are very rarely about correcting the actual problem. They are formulated to change lab values and suppress symptoms. FIXING the problem is off the radar.

That's how low "chronic condition medicine" has sunk.

Yes, changing our diet "controls the condition" better than taking drugs for it does. Because this way of eating actually fixes it.
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  #41   ^
Old Wed, Jan-01-20, 09:13
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,953
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 235/175/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: Florida
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We have "for profit" medicine here in the US.

It's more profitable to treat an illness than to cure it. When you cure it you lose the customer.

Sad, but true.
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  #42   ^
Old Wed, Jan-01-20, 12:35
Grav Grav is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,469
 
Plan: Banting
Stats: 302/187/187 Male 175cm
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
Other countries don't let prescription drugs be advertised.

Bizarrely, New Zealand does as well. Although it's not quite as wall-to-wall here as I remember it being in the States when I was there in 2016, it is still legally allowed here as well.
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  #43   ^
Old Wed, Jan-01-20, 15:39
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,456
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/194/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Texas
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A couple of years ago I was at a doctors office. Across from me were a mother and adult daughter. To me, I could see that Mom was full diabetes, at several hundred pounds and had to use a walker well before the years of an older person who might need one. (someone in their 90s not 60s) Her feet and legs were swollen with edema. Daughter was well on her way to follow in her mother's footsteps.

This doctor is the one who told me to eat more fiber like oatmeal. I stared blankly at him (being LC). He then said if you don't like oatmeal, just have oatmeal cookies............

I looked him up on a website that tracks doctor's income coming from drug companies. He was receiving over $80,000 from 3-4 companies.
That told me why the lady in the waiting room who could barely get up was in the condition she was in despite going to the doctor.
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  #44   ^
Old Thu, Jan-02-20, 04:07
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grav
Bizarrely, New Zealand does as well. Although it's not quite as wall-to-wall here as I remember it being in the States when I was there in 2016, it is still legally allowed here as well.


I didn't know that, but I'm sure the drug companies keep trying everywhere.
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  #45   ^
Old Thu, Jan-02-20, 04:53
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 14,602
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/125/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 136%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
That told me why the lady in the waiting room who could barely get up was in the condition she was in despite going to the doctor.


This is so much like my disastrous endocrinologist appointment. It was a BIG deal, I had symptoms just like Addison's Disease, and I still waited 3 months to get in. And it was a big deal for us to manage getting there. We had to make the 2-3 hour trip the night before (DH has CFS/ME) and then find the place (GPS wasn't working there).

Once I got into the exam room, there was a big poster on the wall about how many carbs per meal (30) plus snacks (15) for 5-6 meals based on hearthealthywholegrains! And I got a sinking feeling.

Sure enough, I laid out my months of temperature charting, which showed a very irregular pattern, a bulleted outline of my symptoms, and when/how my artificial HRT had stopped working.

He said "You don't have Addison's, you'd be dead now," and offered Prozac. Things went downhill from there

I did manage to bully him into a test. Which he did wrong. But the results helped me figure out what really was going on, so it was all worth it. Eventually.

DH had been in the waiting room, and he was livid as we went into the treatment room. "I've been sitting here watching people go by like on a conveyor belt. They are all in terrible shape. I could see if he was a specialist who only did the worst cases, but that's not what I'm hearing from the reception area. These people are suffering and none of these doctors are listening."

And no wonder.
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