Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 09:12
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 3,130
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default Is diet soda more dangerous than sugar-sweetened beverages?

I receive Peter Attia's newsletter by email. This week's topic is the evaluation of an observational (epidemiological) study with the title, "Is diet soda more dangerous than sugar-sweetened beverages?"

Given the number of times we've discussed this on the forum, I thought it might be of interest, particularly Attia's conclusion in the following summary. However you think, there is no conclusive evidence one way or another, as Attia observes. There are some who do very well with artificially sweetened beverages (ASBs) and some who don't.

The real focus is on whether we should believe studies and why, which ones are more evidential, and how to tell the difference. Richard Feinman, a poster on this forum, wrote the book, "The World Turned Upside Down," with similar observations, also an excellent resource to help people sort through the babble that gets published and reported. It's a crazy world out there with much poorly founded information floating through the ether masquerading as facts.

Summary of study by Attia:
Quote:
Is drinking diet soda going to lead you to an early grave? This study does not answer that question nor does it bring us any closer to answering that question. Nor will “more research” on the long-term effects of consuming artificial sweeteners if “more research” means more observational epidemiology. We can apply the same point here that one of my mentors made to me in explaining meta-analyses: “a hundred sow’s ears makes not a pearl necklace.” Piling up inadequate studies that can’t determine cause and effect while bemoaning the expensiveness of RCTs suggests to me we need to think about how we’re allocating our resources. Yes, long-term clinical trials are expensive, difficult to conduct, and will have limitations. But there’s one very important distinction between RCTs and the vast majority of observational epidemiological studies on diet and health: at least RCTs are not dead on arrival.

Link to study report:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...319&appId=scweb

Link to Attia's detailed article about studies:
https://peterattiamd.com/ns003/
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 09:51
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 11,394
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

DD's x-boss has Alzheimer now and he is in his late 50s. She told me he use to live on diet Coke!
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 11:16
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,579
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRB5111

The real focus is on whether we should believe studies and why, which ones are more evidential, and how to tell the difference. Richard Feinman, a poster on this forum, wrote the book, "The World Turned Upside Down," with similar observations, also an excellent resource to help people sort through the babble that gets published and reported. It's a crazy world out there with much poorly founded information floating through the ether masquerading as facts.



One thing that Richard Feinman said in his book that has stuck with me is that the term "nutritional science" is an oxymoron. I no longer pay any attention to these kind of studies. Garbage in is always garbage out.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 16:04
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,767
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

No. Now I'll go back and actually read the thread.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Sun, Oct-20-19, 16:09
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,767
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Okay, I've read the thread now, and the abstract. Yeah, no. This is nonsense.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Mon, Oct-21-19, 06:31
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,464
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
Default

Less than stellar dietary (in this case drink) choices correlated with less than stellar health. I seriously doubt those who consumed the most daily soft drinks (regardless of how sweetened) were likely to be extremely health-conscious people otherwise eating very healthy foods, exercising, etc. Such that soft drink consumption becomes a marker for poor health choices in general regardless of sweetener type. I don't consider artificial sweeteners healthy but personally would get a lot worse effect from sugars.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Mon, Oct-21-19, 15:26
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 11,394
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

When I was taught that coke would clean the acid/corrosion off of car battery terminals, I knew that this was not something that humans should drink.
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Mon, Oct-21-19, 16:39
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,767
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I don't really understand why whether coke cleans battery terminals matters to the healthfulness of the stuff. Not arguing that coke is healthful, I just don't understand how that's relevant. I mean, you can also clean them with vinegar or lemon juice or baking soda... none of those are particularly harmful.
Reply With Quote
  #9   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 01:28
Ambulo's Avatar
Ambulo Ambulo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,309
 
Plan: No GPS/OMAD (23:1)
Stats: 150/129/120 Female 64 inches
BF:
Progress: 70%
Location: the North, England
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I don't really understand why whether coke cleans battery terminals matters to the healthfulness of the stuff. Not arguing that coke is healthful, I just don't understand how that's relevant. I mean, you can also clean them with vinegar or lemon juice or baking soda... none of those are particularly harmful.


This reminds me of my dad trying to lower my consumption of tomato ketchup by showing me how it cleans a penny. Fail.
Reply With Quote
  #10   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:30
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,392
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Vinegar cleans corrosion too. Lots of people use it on salads.

This study reminds me of the carrots cause car accidents study. Most people eat carrots within 48 hours of a car accident.
Reply With Quote
  #11   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:44
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 11,993
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zei
Less than stellar dietary (in this case drink) choices correlated with less than stellar health. I seriously doubt those who consumed the most daily soft drinks (regardless of how sweetened) were likely to be extremely health-conscious people otherwise eating very healthy foods, exercising, etc. Such that soft drink consumption becomes a marker for poor health choices in general regardless of sweetener type. I don't consider artificial sweeteners healthy but personally would get a lot worse effect from sugars.


This, so much. It's like red meat gets skewed in these reports because we've been told how unhealthy it is. So who is eating it? People who don't care, and us
Reply With Quote
  #12   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:45
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 11,394
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

How many different chemicals are in a can of Coke, does anybody know?
Reply With Quote
  #13   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 10:46
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is online now
Posts: 11,993
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/123/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 139%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
How many different chemicals are in a can of Coke, do you know?


It's the acidity.

https://www.reagent.co.uk/the-scien...ind-a-soda-can/
Reply With Quote
  #14   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 13:29
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,392
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

It is made up of mostly Dihydrogen monoxide. One of the deadliest chemicals known to humankind.
Reply With Quote
  #15   ^
Old Tue, Oct-22-19, 15:32
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,464
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/213/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: Texas
Default

Hey, dihydrogen monoxide is highly associated with drownings. Dangerous stuff! Speaking of which, I'm going to go swim in the stuff. Eek!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 16:09.


Copyright © 2000-2019 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.