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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-19, 04:49
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,700
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
PS. I dont eat my dogs....


That would be taking Paleo much too far!

I think teaser’s explanation is excellent. We can run perfectly adequate experiments on ourselves, evaluate the results, and come up with workable hypotheses. Maybe they only apply to US; but that is also of great utility.
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  #17   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-19, 07:54
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 2,999
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Yes, teaser nailed it. Hypotheses develop from individual experiences shared anecdotally. Then, and depending on good design, experimental trials are intended to prove whether a broader application exists. My experiences are simply that until they can be proven to have a wider application.
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  #18   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-19, 11:17
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,148
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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https://www.dietdoctor.com/op-ed-cl...dont-blame-cows

Quote:
Is eating meat bad for the planet? Is that ground chuck on your plate the biggest cause of our escalating climate crisis?

Not compared to the burning of fossil fuels for cars, planes, industry, and energy says a provocative new commentary by journalist Paul John Scott which ran recently in the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

Minneapolis Star Tribune: It’s the cars, not the cows

In fact, Scott charges that the growing focus on reducing meat as a way to realistically address climate change is putting the attention on the wrong issues — to our collective peril. “The vegetarian appropriation of the climate crisis is reckless.”

“Climate change will require our focused attention, collective sacrifice and unprecedented political courage…. These will be painful enough without battling the perception that food activism may have hijacked the agenda.”

Scott’s pointed, well-written 2200-word commentary is currently the most commented upon and shared item for the paper, with very strong debate both pro and con.

Journalist Nina Teicholz, among many others, shared it with her many followers saying: “Thoughtful, comprehensive overview of the meat-environment question by independent journalist. Worth your Sunday morning read.”

Make no mistake, Scott is no climate change denier. He agrees it is a daunting threat that needs to be solved. “The temptation to pair it with dinner is strong.”

Nor is he anti-vegetarian. Choosing to eat only, or mostly, plants, he writes “is of course a legitimate, wholly admirable personal dietary choice.”

Nor does he deny that agriculture, particularly the raising of cattle in industrialized agriculture, contributes both greenhouse gas emissions and methane to the atmosphere. It does.

He argues, instead, that the role of meat-eating in climate change is being taken out of context. He takes apart many statistics, presented as facts, over the last decades and shows how they have been skewed to fit various agendas.

“When you stick to the knowable, direct emissions, the climate burden of cattle fall away. The EPA estimates that 9% of all direct emissions in the U.S. are due to agriculture, compared with 20% from industry, 28% from electricity and 28% from transportation. Just 3.9% are due to livestock. That’s half the CO2 attributable to concrete.”

What about methane? He takes that apart, too, noting that natural gas leaks created in the process of fracking alone release 13 teragrams of methane a year into the atmosphere — which is double the amount released by cattle. Add to that the methane released by other man-made sources — landfills, air conditioners, agricultural rice paddies — and cows’ methane contribution pales in comparison.

“EAT Lancet should be pressing us to swear off stove gas and rice. But that wouldn’t advance the vegetarian imperative,” says Scott, examining the personalities and agenda behind the January 2019 EAT Lancet report which recommended meat eating be cut by 80% to save the planet from climate change disaster.

EAT Lancet has “strange bedfellows, he writes. Its co-sponsors include “chemical manufacturers Dupont, technology giant Google, accounting giant Deloitte, PR behemouth Edelman, 13 other chemical companies, and 27 food and drug makers, including refined carbohydrate merchants Kellogg’s, Nestlé and PepsiCO and the processed-oil giants Cargill and Unilever.”

He asks, sarcastically: “What, one might ask, could possibly persuade these engines of capitalism to advocate the shuttering of every steakhouse, oyster bar and barbecue?” (Answer in a word: profit.)

Check out Scott’s provocative and well-written piece. Do you agree with his research and point of view?

Here at Diet Doctor, we care deeply about these issues. We believe in environmentally sound stewardship that creates the healthiest of whole foods benefitting human life and the planet. We believe a low-carb vegetarian diet is a realistic and healthy diet. We believe all animal products should be raised in the most humane and environmentally sound way possible.

Check out our other resources on this important, complex topic below.
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  #19   ^
Old Fri, Jul-12-19, 12:35
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,206
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 230/179/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 113%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
<...snip...>
Who is willing to drive 50% of current weekly miles; who is willing to shut off the AC? Who is willing to rethink slowing the human population growth? <...>

Me.

I don't use the AC but planted shade trees, painted the roof white, and open the windows.

I eat 100% grass-fed beef - no grain is wasted on the cows

I drive only when necessary, and plan my routes to combine what would be separate errands. Plus I drive like I was in the historic "Mobil Economy Run" and get 100 extra miles per tank over the rated MPG estimates.

My trash is about one cubic foot per week.

I'd grow food here, but with sterile sugar sand, a lagoon estuary on one side and a protected wetlands on the other, it would take too much fertilizer and insecticides, so I plant native species that can survive with no care.

I had two children in the late 1960s during the 'zero population growth' and got 'fixed'. I think today, I'd stop at one or better yet none.

But those are simply my choices, interpreting what I read in my own way (and yes pub_med is used to falsify or verify a lot). Does that mean I'm doing it the best way? Who knows? I hope so.

To get back on topic.

The bisons in North America during the early USA days were numbered in the zillions and we had lower CO2 than we have today. And we kept cows and 'drove' horses.

I can't believe it's the cows.

Bob
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  #20   ^
Old Sat, Jul-13-19, 11:00
CityGirl8 CityGirl8 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 748
 
Plan: Protein Power, IF
Stats: 238/204/145 Female 5'8"
BF:53.75%/46.6%/25%
Progress: 37%
Location: PNW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Who is willing to drive 50% of current weekly miles; who is willing to shut off the AC? Who is willing to rethink slowing the human population growth?
To get people to drive less, we have to be committed, as communities, to 1) increased density in our cities (to limit suburban sprawl) and 2) funding public transit. Americans are quite bad at both these things.

We love our own single family homes with a little plot of land. And as a culture, we believe strongly in the idea that people should be able to choose how they want to live and we generally prefer individual living. Single family homes, single people in apartments or homes, etc. This sense of freedom and independence is strongly rooted in us and it's one of our most prevalent values--but it doesn't make for efficient, low-impact development.

This sense of independence and freedom is one of the same reasons we love our cars--public transit is group transit. We want to go where we want, when we want. As individuals, we aren't really interested in using public transit, so we don't vote to fund it with our taxes. So it doesn't get built, and isn't efficient, so no one wants to use it. It's circular. My theory on this is that you should always vote to fund public transit. It's worth it, even if you don't want to use it yourself. There are still benefits to you: It gets other cars off the road, so the traffic jams are reduced (or not made worse in the future), promotes urban density and less sprawl which is good for the environment you live in, etc. In other countries, there's no voting on individual taxes like this--you vote for local representatives and then those representatives make overall decisions together about what's best for the community. That is not how American's like to do things, but it's how you get excellent public transit built out quickly and efficiently.

Until we find a way to reconcile these issues with our values, we're going to continue to struggle here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
PS. I dont eat my dogs....
I regularly refer to the various pills and vitamins my dog has to take as "dog-flavored." Every once in a while I have to stop and say "I don't mean it tastes like dog."
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  #21   ^
Old Sat, Jul-13-19, 12:55
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,993
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Lol. Pills smelling or tasting like a wet dog... yuk. Lol


In the US, the drive time to jobs has increased. I work from home, and combine trips if I use my car, which is rather economucal. Use car instead of truck when possible.

I dont think we will change. Boston continues to build more businesses in an effort to provide jobs. Yet lack of low cost housing is also a problem.

Yes, public transit in big cities is a great solution. I refuse to go into Boston. It is a nightmare by car or public transit.

Riding bikes is the norm in many European countries. My BIL here in Mass often rode his bike to work . Yet too few roads accommodate both cars and bikes. Cars not willing to share the road. My kids dont ride as roads are too dangerous.

As long as " me first" remains the American way, we are doomed.
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  #22   ^
Old Sat, Jul-13-19, 13:44
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is offline
Posts: 4,526
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
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I am one of a small number of people who have given up their car. I moved to an apartment near the center of my small Vermont town and most everything I need is either within walking distance or I can order online. Very occasionally I call on a member of my family to drive me somewhere I cannot get to myself, but that is no more than a few times a year. I enjoy living this way but it does take a change in mindset, an ability to be satisfied with a simpler life.

Interestingly, and entirely independent of my decision, my sister and her husband, after their suburban nest emptied, moved into center city Philadelphia where they both work. My sister rides a bike to work and my brother-in-law takes public transportation. They sold both their cars. When they came to visit me two summers ago they took the train from Philly to Vermont. i was able to walk to the train station to meet them.

In order for changes like these to be come more common, as CityGirl said, it will take a change in values in our society.
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  #23   ^
Old Sat, Jul-13-19, 17:22
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,993
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-a-rama
Me.

I don't use the AC but planted shade trees, painted the roof white, and open the windows.

I eat 100% grass-fed beef - no grain is wasted on the cows

I drive onh
ly when necessary, and plan my routes to combine what would be separate errands. Plus I drive like I was in the historic "Mobil Economy Run" and get 100 extra miles per tank over the rated MPG estimates.

My trash is about one cubic foot per week.



To get back on topic.

The bisons in North America during the early USA days were numbered in the zillions and we had lower CO2 than we have today. And we kept cows and 'drove' horses.

I can't believe it's the cows.

Bob


Im with you Bob. I dont beleive its the cows.

Its cars, gasoline, ekectricity.

AC not only uses electricity to run but it moves the heat from inside to outside. I got a lesson on this from my son learning HVAC.
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  #24   ^
Old Sat, Jul-13-19, 17:34
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,993
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Unhappy

Wish I had written down a few detail from a PBS progran reporting on alternative beef sources made from fetal cattle cells nurtured with a nutrient broth to become pounds of meat protein.

A cardiologist started this company after realizing his current use of stem cells to rebuild damaged hearts in people. His main supporters include Gates and Cargill.

The presentation was very Pro, as food resources become stretching in the years ahead. Arguments for this protein source looked at the 16% of carbon pollution due to animal production, which we know is incorrect and overstated. And continual 'not kill animals" , angle hashed over.

In reality, it mentions, the production has not passed federal criteria yet, not been proven safe according to one critic, and costs a bundle to create. I wish I could remember the cost with certainty but I had left the room and just caught a faint number, like $100 a pound . Ver very expensive. It also depends on fetal tissue at this point, though they mentioned blood samples too.

I have reservations as it is only protein and not the full nutritional profile of meat.

There are better ways imho.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Sat, Jul-13-19 at 20:31.
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  #25   ^
Old Sun, Jul-14-19, 08:42
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,206
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 230/179/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 113%
Location: Florida
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I've used public transportation in New York, Washington DC, Madrid Spain, Mexico City, Budapest, Prague, London, and a number of other cities that are built for that. I find it convenient as long as it is frequent enough, and it eliminates parking hassles.

But here in Florida, everything was built for cars. The sprawl is such that an efficient mass transportation just won't work. Unless there were a zillion busses, most homes would be too far away from the bus stops to walk and the wait would be too long.

So I accelerate as if there is an egg shell between my foot and the gas pedal. And I avoid using the brakes as much as possible by coasting as soon as the light ahead turns red, knowing when to take my foot off the gas so that when I get to the slower speed limit I can do that without braking, and following at a decent distance. Every time you hit the brakes you turn gas you burned into friction heat.

I get 100 extra miles per tankful, and that means less pollution and money in my pocket.

My shade trees turn CO2 into O2 and not running the AC keeps my carbon footprint down plus doesn't send out heat from the outdoor part of the unit.

There really is a lot we can do to minimize our pollution, it takes commitment, and a little sacrifice. But I feel I owe that to the next generations.

Bob
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  #26   ^
Old Sun, Jul-14-19, 11:35
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,993
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Thanks for your efforts, Bob. Just need a billion more to get on board.
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  #27   ^
Old Mon, Jul-15-19, 18:43
Bob-a-rama's Avatar
Bob-a-rama Bob-a-rama is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,206
 
Plan: Keto (Atkins Induction)
Stats: 230/179/185 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 113%
Location: Florida
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Every one counts. If we can get another on board, perhaps they can get another.

There are children out there worried about their future. I want to do my best for them.

Of course this is not the place to discuss whether or not we are causing or accelerating climate change, but the way I figure, if there is a chance that we are, it's best to err on the side of caution.

And there is nothing wrong with reducing our pollution of the planet anyway.

Bob
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