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  #31   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 08:46
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
The whole “saturated fat is bad” idea was an earthquake in nutrition that changed every aspect of the Western Civilization diet.

Too bad it was completely wrong.

Yes, we could reasonably point to this guidance as a primary root cause in the early days resulting in new foods (Snackwell's anyone?) with low fat and much higher sugars that couldn't replace the satiating effect of healthy fats and led to rampant health plagues in obesity, T2D, CVD, Alzheimers, and many other diseases and symptoms associated with metabolic syndrome that are so common today.
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  #32   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 09:09
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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To broaden my understanding of fiber and the Fiber Meanace perspective.....

FOund much via google search-- often like to hear various opinions beyond my personally limited view.

A journalistic view for the weston price angle.
https://www.westonaprice.org/book-r...in-monastyrsky/

From good reads-- opinions by everyone, and even a number of n=1 raves.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/544079.Fiber_Menace

Working thru this interview. Given I can hear his own words, he is a bit ego centric, so no wonder his books come across preachy. Like so many of us, when he was extremely overweight with T2D and the medical establishment was of no use, he reverted to his own medical training to research the available material.....

My brother is preachy and drives me nuts, so will race thru the written copy of interview and MAYBE hazard the video version.
https://drruscio.com/why-dietary-fi...in-monastyrsky/
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 09:28
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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My comments as I read----

BTW-- my brother is a pharmasist too!!

Many people run into GI disturbances with a fast food change. THis is typical. AND why feed changes for animals is done slowly over 14 days-- us humans are never given that advice.

SO far nothing about the microflora -- which typesand what % of the total microflora-- not addressed... hoping for some info there.

THe reason for the 14 day change over in animals is FOR THE CHANGE IN MICROFLORA.

Will he address the anti-nutrients in the seed coatings? The reasons why we used to debran grains, as well as dehull grains. WHy we used to soak and ferment beans, nuts and grains-- but have forgotton how to do this in our fast food realm.

Quote:
So what happens is the colon can relay so much stools that they start to reflux back into the small intestines. And so you run into conditions when stools end up in the small intestines. You end up with a lot of bacteria there. It’s supposed to be sterile. And so when you have bacteria and you add more fiber on top of it, especially insoluble fiber, you essentially create a proverbial compost pile right inside your body.
To clarify this-- no area is sterile. I think he actually means the wrong bacterial mix is in the wrong location. And the back up , additionally, causes a real problem which he goes on to explain.

Quote:
And so my advice to everyone with gastroparesis is reduce fluid consumption because every time you drink water on top of your meal, you dilute gastric juices, gastric acids, and enzymes. And if you had a lot of fiber, it also sucks them in. And you just delayed the digestion. And the more you delay the digestion, the more difficult it is for the stomach to clear itself out.


Yup, I figured this out-- I DONT drink with a meal. Figured it diluted the digestive enzymes, and given my personal risk for colon cancer, AND my blood type due to ethinic heritage based on the BLood type Book, I am at risk for GI cancer from both angles.

Too finish later.....
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  #34   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 11:03
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,610
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
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Location: Texas
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Finding the Fiber Menace book was the affirmation of what I had already discovered on my own out of self preservation and in the opposite end of the spectrum of what a doctor had said to me and what the on-line advise is with the eat more fiber. Nobody else has the guts to say it like this fellow who wrote the book. Maybe it's because they don't want to loose their medical license in the US.
I would equate this with how you are told by doctors to eat low fat and you just sit there in front of him smiling and knowing he's full of it!
Really full of it when a doctor tells me just to eat Oatmeal Cookies to get fiber (like he does).
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  #35   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 11:31
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
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Lol, my gi specialist said a daily dose of konsyl in a glass of oj!! I made the jump to real vegetables and some fruits..... NOT bran. Took a few years though.... i could have made changes years sooner...now look for prevention and treatment, i just assume cancer is hiding somewhere......
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  #36   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 11:45
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,610
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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It's very strange how the origins of Low-fat was just as equally misrepresented and outright fraudulent to our polulation as the fiber was/is. I'm not apposed to some fiber in veggies as is evident by the fact that you see me post about eating them still from time to time, but oh no, that's not enough the doctor told me, you NEED more and thus I got the oatmeal cookie story from the Dr. My parting words to him did raise his eyebrow though, it was a quote from Dr. Barry I believe, that Bran is like Sandpaper to the Colon.
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 13:19
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
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Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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You are gutsy!!! Lol
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  #38   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 14:35
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
You are gutsy!!! Lol


Mind you, that was after a ton of pain that verberabated into the surrounding organs, into the back to the point of feeling sore and bruised and also taking me down for several months with a full body attack including the joints, muscles and overall strength so that I had to hold myself up using the walls for support. He was the first I trusted enough to do a Colonoscopy but I found my own way to stop the pain and heal myself.
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  #39   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 21:07
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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When motivated by pain and access to the internet, solutions pop up. Doctors more often than not dont have cures.

How aweful that pain. Cant imagine. Glad u did find your own fix.
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  #40   ^
Old Sun, Apr-07-19, 21:30
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,610
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
When motivated by pain and access to the internet, solutions pop up. Doctors more often than not dont have cures.

How aweful that pain. Cant imagine. Glad u did find your own fix.


I had to go through process of elimination after first Dr. Said I was too young to have Diverticulitis. I found an Ob/gyn to do an ultrasound for me to rule that area because the pain was all over. Process of elimination. Colon is right next to the bladder, so there's that, but not that either. It took a while to get into better shape in order to have a colonoscopy and to find the doctor I trusted to do it.
I hope Ms S isn't going through this type of pain because it's bad and doesn't heal overnight.
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  #41   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 02:53
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WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,711
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/136/150 Female 67
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Progress: 120%
Location: USA
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And the more diffuse the suffering, the less they seem to understand it...
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  #42   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 06:37
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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https://drruscio.com/why-dietary-fi...in-monastyrsky/

Read thru the transcript-- a LOT to unpack there. Most notably is that fiber can causes problems for the older GI which lacks the motility it once had. Details on feeding or not feeding the microflora and the effects; the lack of studies. Hidden nutrients in enriched wheat flour and rice; the reason to peel fruits and veg; why brans and hulls are a problem. No gall bladder info here in this interview.

THank you MEme for starting this journey as you have been pounding away at me ( in a nice way) for a while now.

Now to run over to gutsense to find info specific to gall bladder.
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  #43   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 08:06
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
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Location: Massachusetts
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FOUND IT!!!!!!! From FIBER MENACE

Quote:
Fiber is particularly hard on the duodenum, because, unlike the stomach, the duodenum isn‘t expandable, but a small, narrow, and easy-to-clog circular tube shaped like the letter C. That‘s why duodenitis (a condition identical to gastritis) and duodenal ulcer (a condition identical to gastric ulcer) strike their victims in their early twenties, twenty to thirty years ahead of the peak occurrences of gastritis and gastric ulcer.

It‘s a well-known fact among military doctors that duodenitis and duodenal ulcers are quite common among recent recruits. No surprise there—beans, legumes, whole grain cereals, whole wheat pasta, and bread make up the largest share of military rations, and young soldiers are particularly prodigious eaters after the daily grind of military life.

The duodenum possesses a few specifics that make it particularly vulnerable to obstruction with fiber. The ducts from the liver, gallbladder, and pancreas congregate into the common bile duct and terminate inside the duodenum. They supply a prodigious amount of bile (400 to 800 ml daily) and pancreatic juice (up to 1500 to 3000 ml daily). It doesn‘t take long to cause considerable damage to the liver, gallbladder, and pancreas by blocking, even partially, a considerable outflow of these fluids.

The blockage of biliary and pancreatic ducts can be purely mechanical or caused by duodenitis, an inflammation that affects the lining of the duodenum and the common duct itself. Again, the prolonged contact of a fibrous, acidified mass with the duodenal mucosa is the most likely cause of both inflammation and blockage. The conditions that follow are quite common:

Pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas). Besides fiber there isn‘t any other substance in human nutrition that enters the duodenum not only as is, but also expanded many times its original size. Lo and behold, the recent (17th edition) of The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy confirms this fact: “recent data indicate that obstruction of the pancreatic duct in the absence of biliary reflux can produce pancreatitis.”[11] Acute pancreatitis is quite common in toddlers, who are placed on solid food, which means loads of fiber from cereals, bread, pasta, fruits, and vegetables. The condition itself often remains undiagnosed, while its most prominent symptom—the onset of juvenile diabetes (type I), a failure to produce insulin because of acute inflammation—manifests itself almost immediately. Here is yet another ruinous aspect of fiber that strikes so early in life.
Cholecystitis (Inflammation of the gallbladder). Gallstones are the primary (90%) cause of acute (sudden, severe) and chronic cholecystitis. Gallstones are formed from concentrated bile salts when the outflow of bile from the gallbladder is blocked. The gallstones cause inflammation either by irritating the gallbladder mucosa or by obstructing the duct that connects it to the duodenum. The gallstones are the secondary factor, because before they can form, something else must first obstruct the biliary ducts. Just like with pancreatitis, that “something” is either inflammatory disease or obstruction caused by fiber.
Women are affected by gallstones far more than men, because they are more likely to maintain a “healthy” diet, which nowadays means a diet that is low in fat and high in fiber. Since the gallbladder concentrates bile pending a fatty meal, no fat in the meal means no release of bile. The longer concentrated bile remains in the gallbladder, the higher the chance for gallstones to form.

Upper (jejunum) and lower (ileum) small intestine. The duodenum transitions into the jejunum, which comprises the upper two-fifths of the small intestine. It‘s distinguished from the ileum by its larger width and thickness, slightly more pronounced mucosa structure, and deeper color, because it embodies more blood vessels.

It‘s somewhat ironic that the name jejunum is derived from the Latin fasting, because during dissection this particular segment of the small intestine was always found empty. Apparently, the fathers of anatomy, who named the internal organs, hadn‘t yet been confronted with the scourge of indigestible fiber; otherwise this particular section of the small intestine would be called intestinum repletus (filled intestine).

The final three-fifths of the small intestine are called the ileum (from Latin‘s groin, meaning near groin). The ileum is narrower (3.5–3.75 cm), has thinner walls, and is not as vascular. At the very end, the ileocal valve terminates the small intestine and prevents the content of cecum (the first section of large intestine) from spilling back into the small intestine.

One look at the small intestine, laid out inside the abdominal cavity like a tangled, convoluted garden hose, makes it apparent that this organ was designed to move fluids only, and that it‘s remarkably easy to jam with solid, undigested stuff. There is only one substance that can get down there undigested and expanded many times its size—indigestible fiber. And when that happens, here are the possible outcomes (a partial list):

Mechanical obstruction. The medical term for an undigested mass that forms inside the stomach or intestines and gets stuck there is bezoar (pronounced bee-zawr). Indigestible fiber is the only consumable substance that doesn‘t digest, and has the potential to form bezoars, which cause mechanical obstruction of the small intestine. When bezoars are lodged beyond the reach of the endoscope, abdominal surgery is the only option available to remove the obstruction. Bezoars are rare among healthy adults, but more common among children (whose intestines are comparatively tiny and underdeveloped). Old and infirm individuals, whose intestines lack the muscular tone needed to propel anything but fluids, are also vulnerable. That‘s why indigestible fiber should be taboo for children, or very old, infirm, and bed-ridden patients.
Enteritis (inflammation of the small intestine). The insides of the small intestine are covered with a pinkish mucosal membrane, superficially similar to the insides of one‘s mouth or vagina. The assimilation of digested nutrients into the bloodstream is the sole function of the intestinal mucosa. It can only assimilate nutrients dissolved in liquid chyme. It isn‘t intended to transport anything other than mildly acidic chyme (pH 6.0 to 6.5). Once inside the stomach, undigested fiber soaks up acid and enzymes like a sponge. When expanded fiber enters the small intestine, the permanent contact with the delicate mucosa causes mechanical and chemical damage, which in turn causes mucosal inflammation (enteritis). Once inflamed, the mucosa can no longer absorb the nutrients and gases formed during digestion, and the intestines expand, causing bloating and cramping, which is often accompanied by severe pain.
Crohn‘s disease. If left unchecked long enough, enteritis progresses into Crohn‘s disease. The mucosal inflammation gets so severe that it may cause intestinal obstruction—a condition similar to a stuffy nose during a cold, flu, or allergy attack, all of which cause acute inflammation of the nasal mucosa. The inflammation may happen at any point along the length of the small and large intestines, but it‘s most commonly localized in the bottom section of the ileum—the place where clogging with undigested fiber, bacterial fermentation, and fecal reflux is likeliest to occur. According to The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy: “Over the past few decades, the incidence of Crohn‘s disease has increased in the Western populations of Northern European and Anglo-Saxon ethnic derivation, third-world populations, blacks, and Latin Americans.”[12] What else happened during “the past few decades?” A substantial increase in the consumption of indigestible fiber, of course.
Hernia. When intestines protrude through the abdominal wall or inside the scrotum, they cause hernias. About 5 million Americans suffer from this unpleasant, potentially lethal condition. Coughing, straining, or lifting weights isn‘t generally enough to push the intestines so hard that they pierce the abdominal muscles or squeeze down into the scrotum (inguinal hernia). Intestinal bloating from inflammatory diseases caused by indigestible fiber is the primary force capable of expanding the intestines so much that they don‘t have enough room inside the abdominal cavity, and may ripple through the abdominal wall. The physical exertion that causes the actual herniation is a secondary force. Straining to move large stools (caused by fiber) is one of the major causes of hernia as well.
Malnutrition, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies. All the hard work that the body did breaking food down into basic nutrients—simple sugars, amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins, and minerals—is wasted unless they get assimilated into the blood-stream to become energy, electrolytes, hormones, enzymes, neurotransmitters, tissues, and other substances that keep our bodies functional and healthy. This final act of digestion takes place throughout the entire length of the small intestine, unless it‘s affected by inflammation. In this case, the essential nutrients will not digest, even if your diet contains plenty of them. Since indigestible fiber is the major source of intestinal inflammation, it is also a major cause of malnutrition and mineral and vitamin deficiencies. Pernicious anemia, which is a chronic shortage of dietary iron, folic acid, and vitamin B12, related to gastric and intestinal inflammation, is one of the most common forms of such a deficiency. It‘s also the most difficult to overcome, because regular oral supplements won‘t digest, no matter what the dose, unless the fiber is completely withdrawn and the stomach and intestines permitted to heal.
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  #44   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 10:53
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,610
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
FOUND IT!!!!!!! From FIBER MENACE


Yes, So glad you found that. I was too lazy to look for it but here it is.
Amazing isn't it, the answers are all in that book!!
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  #45   ^
Old Mon, Apr-08-19, 12:09
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 11,038
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Leads me back to how much of our food is cooked. IMO hard to use tribal groups as a best senerio-- perhaps a starting point but perhaps not the ideal food management.

Dr Edes I think was the one that pointed out the tribes in the SE US area that lived in the same area but eons apart. One hunter gatherer, followed by farmers. Interesting that the bones and teeth of the hunter gather are better than the farmer teeth. I keep coming back to this over and over, trying to understand vegies/ nuts/fruits/ grains versus meat. Actually this isnt the correct division, rather it reflects the impasse between carnivores and the vegetarians. Just leaves me exhausted.

Perhaps this is why juicing for cancer treatment ( over the border of course) works. Less stress on the body. IDK-- thinking out loud.

I do know that our meats are not the quality of wild meats.

We we seem to be stuck in less than ideal foods no matter what we pick to eat.

Need More time to noodle around my brain to make sense of this. I keep coming back to cooking.

Why is mantioc cooked, then dried and stored.....tribal group in SA.
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