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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 10:22
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 1,937
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
Default The problem might not be with your coconut oil but with how it was processed

If I'm understanding this abstract correctly, IF (big "if" IMHO) it turns out that saturated fats like coconut oil really do raise serum cholesterol levels and IF (another big "if") it also turns out that high serum cholesterol really is bad for one's cardiovascular system, then the problem might not lie with the saturated fat itself but with certain contaminants that are introduced into the saturated fats by modern refining processes. Why does this not really surprise me?

Quote:
Glycerol derived process contaminants in refined coconut oil induce cholesterol synthesis in HepG2 cells.

Abstract
Despite its 50-year history, the conventional diet-heart hypothesis holding that dietary saturated fats raise serum cholesterol, and with it, cardiovascular risk, remains controversial. Harsh chemical and physical treatment generates process contaminants, and refined oils raise serum and tissue cholesterol in vivo independent of saturated fat content. We developed an in vitro bioassay for rapidly assessing the influence of oils on cholesterol metabolism in the human liver HepG2 cell line, and tested it using coconut oil (CO) of various stages of refinement. CO was dissolved with dipalmitoyl phosphatidylcholine (DPPC) surfactant, solvent evaporated, and emulsified into fat-free cell culture media. After 24 h treatment cellular cholesterol and triacylglycerol increased; HMG-CoA Reductase (HMGCR) increased and CYP7A1 (cholesterol 7α-hydroxylase) decreased with sequential processing steps, deacidification, bleaching, deodorization, while fatty acid profiles were not affected. Glycerol-derived process contaminants glycidyl esters and monochloropropandiol (MCPD) increased with processing. Addition of glycidyl or MCPD to virgin CO (VCO) had similar effects to processing, while addition of phenolic antioxidants to fully refined CO reduced HMGCR and increased CYP7A1. We conclude that harsh processing creates contaminants that raise cholesterol levels in vitro, consistent with a role as a contributing atherosclerotic factor.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30878531


Guess maybe I'll start paying a bit more to buy cold-pressed virgin coconut oil instead of Lou-Ana brand. And, I wonder where I can buy plain ole minimally processed (i.e, non-hydrogenated) lard - the kind you need to keep in the fridge - to cook with? Pretty sure my local HEB only carries "blocks" of shelf-stable (hydrogenated) lard.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 10:47
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
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Posts: 13,364
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Gosh. Am I ever glad I'm not in-vitro.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 10:51
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
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Posts: 13,364
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

But that's just me going for the easy joke. Less refined sounds prudent.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 10:54
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,364
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29511019

Quote:
Randomised trial of coconut oil, olive oil or butter on blood lipids and other cardiovascular risk factors in healthy men and women.
Khaw KT1, Sharp SJ2, Finikarides L3,4, Afzal I5, Lentjes M1, Luben R1, Forouhi NG2.
Author information
Abstract
INTRODUCTION:
High dietary saturated fat intake is associated with higher blood concentrations of low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C), an established risk factor for coronary heart disease. However, there is increasing interest in whether various dietary oils or fats with different fatty acid profiles such as extra virgin coconut oil may have different metabolic effects but trials have reported inconsistent results. We aimed to compare changes in blood lipid profile, weight, fat distribution and metabolic markers after four weeks consumption of 50 g daily of one of three different dietary fats, extra virgin coconut oil, butter or extra virgin olive oil, in healthy men and women in the general population.

DESIGN:
Randomised clinical trial conducted over June and July 2017.

SETTING:
General community in Cambridgeshire, UK.

PARTICIPANTS:
Volunteer adults were recruited by the British Broadcasting Corporation through their websites. Eligibility criteria were men and women aged 50-75 years, with no known history of cancer, cardiovascular disease or diabetes, not on lipid lowering medication, no contraindications to a high-fat diet and willingness to be randomised to consume one of the three dietary fats for 4 weeks. Of 160 individuals initially expressing an interest and assessed for eligibility, 96 were randomised to one of three interventions; 2 individuals subsequently withdrew and 94 men and women attended a baseline assessment. Their mean age was 60 years, 67% were women and 98% were European Caucasian. Of these, 91 men and women attended a follow-up assessment 4 weeks later.

INTERVENTION:
Participants were randomised to extra virgin coconut oil, extra virgin olive oil or unsalted butter and asked to consume 50 g daily of one of these fats for 4 weeks, which they could incorporate into their usual diet or consume as a supplement.

MAIN OUTCOMES AND MEASURES:
The primary outcome was change in serum LDL-C; secondary outcomes were change in total and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (TC and HDL-C), TC/HDL-C ratio and non-HDL-C; change in weight, body mass index (BMI), waist circumference, per cent body fat, systolic and diastolic blood pressure, fasting plasma glucose and C reactive protein.

RESULTS:
LDL-C concentrations were significantly increased on butter compared with coconut oil (+0.42, 95% CI 0.19 to 0.65 mmol/L, P<0.0001) and with olive oil (+0.38, 95% CI 0.16 to 0.60 mmol/L, P<0.0001), with no differences in change of LDL-C in coconut oil compared with olive oil (-0.04, 95% CI -0.27 to 0.19 mmol/L, P=0.74). Coconut oil significantly increased HDL-C compared with butter (+0.18, 95% CI 0.06 to 0.30 mmol/L) or olive oil (+0.16, 95% CI 0.03 to 0.28 mmol/L). Butter significantly increased TC/HDL-C ratio and non-HDL-C compared with coconut oil but coconut oil did not significantly differ from olive oil for TC/HDL-C and non-HDL-C. There were no significant differences in changes in weight, BMI, central adiposity, fasting blood glucose, systolic or diastolic blood pressure among any of the three intervention groups.

CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE:
Two different dietary fats (butter and coconut oil) which are predominantly saturated fats, appear to have different effects on blood lipids compared with olive oil, a predominantly monounsaturated fat with coconut oil more comparable to olive oil with respect to LDL-C. The effects of different dietary fats on lipid profiles, metabolic markers and health outcomes may vary not just according to the general classification of their main component fatty acids as saturated or unsaturated but possibly according to different profiles in individual fatty acids, processing methods as well as the foods in which they are consumed or dietary patterns. These findings do not alter current dietary recommendations to reduce saturated fat intake in general but highlight the need for further elucidation of the more nuanced relationships between different dietary fats and health.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 10:55
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
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Location: Massachusetts
Default

My understanding-- so correct me if I'm wrong. The refined tastes bland and the unrefined tasted... coconutty.

So....
Is organic refined coconut a problem??
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 11:20
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 13,364
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

I'm not sure any of it's a problem. But the particular issue they're talking about here is with the refining, not with whether or not the raw coconut was organic.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 12:19
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 1,937
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
Default

Quote:
Gosh. Am I ever glad I'm not in-vitro.
You're not??? You sure? Have you asked your mama?

Since I'm trying to move more and more away from using any sort of heavily-processed "foods" because I no longer trust what manufacturers ADD (whether deliberately or accidentally) to them, it certainly makes sense to apply the same standards to the fats/oils I cook with.
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 12:19
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 10,117
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

OFten types of "refining" are defined by the organic label.... like pressed but not chemically separated.....
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 13:00
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

This jar of Coconut oil is Sprouts store brand.
It says Organic Virgin Coconut Oil, Unrefined, USDA Organic, product of Phillippines.
Ingredients: Coconut Oil
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 13:26
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 1,937
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
Default

Quote:
This jar of Coconut oil is Sprouts store brand.
It says Organic Virgin Coconut Oil, Unrefined, USDA Organic, product of Phillippines.
Ingredients: Coconut Oil

Unfortunately, the nearest Sprouts Market to me is a 30 minute drive away. But next time I'm in south Austin, I'll swing by there. Thanks for the info.
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 13:29
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 10,117
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
This jar of Coconut oil is Sprouts store brand.
It says Organic Virgin Coconut Oil, Unrefined, USDA Organic, product of Phillippines.
Ingredients: Coconut Oil



Good try!!

THe solvent derived oils don't list the solvent.

So the question still remains: does "organic" also mean NOT solvent extracted for CO?
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 13:38
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,221
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Good try!!

THe solvent derived oils don't list the solvent.

So the question still remains: does "organic" also mean NOT solvent extracted for CO?


But it's an "Unrefined Virgin" Probably doesn't mean a thing. A bunch of mumbo-jumbo to make us buy it
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 13:50
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 10,117
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

lol.

My jar says "refined organic"---?????
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 14:19
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is offline
Posts: 10,221
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

if yours says refined, might be refined and not Unrefined.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Mar-19-19, 14:20
bevangel's Avatar
bevangel bevangel is offline
Posts: 1,937
 
Plan: modified adkins (sort of)
Stats: 265/176/167 Female 68.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 91%
Location: Austin, TX
Default

As nearly as i can figure out (based on further research), the solvents that the study suggests cause the problems are those that are used mainly to remove the coconut odor from coconut oil.

So my best guess is coconut oils that still smells of coconut is safer, while those that are odorless have probably have the "process-derived contaminants."

Fortunately, I don't mind the flavor or odor of coconuts in most foods so I think I'm going to look for a cold-pressed "virgin" coconut oil. I'm not sure "organic" is that big an issue since I don't think coconut trees are typically treated with inorganic pesticides or other chemicals anyway.
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