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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 15:41
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is online now
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Plan: Paleoish
Stats: 225/170/175 Male 71.5 inches
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Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default Low-carbing is going to kill us - says study

And by low-carbs, the study used <40% of calories.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/...0135-X/fulltext
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 17:28
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Default

It’s ludicrous. Here’s one i just found today.

This Study on Nearly Half a Million People Has Bad News For The Keto Diet

Quote:
Scientists and dieticians are starting to agree on a recipe for a long, healthy life. It's not sexy, and it doesn't involve fancy pills or pricey diet potions.

Fill your plate with plants. Include vegetables, whole grains, healthy fats, and legumes. Don't include a lot of meat, milk, or highly processed foods that a gardener or farmer wouldn't recognize.


They never used to say “good fats.”

Quote:
The popular ketogenic diet, which involves strictly limiting carbs to less than 50 grams a day (that's no more than two apples' worth) and subsisting primarily on high-fat foods, is one of those restrictive diets that could have harmful long-term consequences.

Other low-carb weight-loss diets that fall into this category include paleo, Atkins, Dukan, and Whole 30. Nutrition experts say that besides their potential for harm, these popular diets are really hard to follow.


Danger, Will Robinson!

Of course, the studies discussed were (drum roll please) self-reported.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 17:36
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
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Quote:
Danger, Will Robinson!




Im encountering MORE vegetarian/vegan ^&*(*&&*( to be polite, and it is all just NONSENSE.

The one caveat is that I am concerned that the fats are loaded with BAD fat soluble chemicals. Long ago an obese university prof refused to drop weight and release all those stored toxins into his body--figured they were trapped in the adipose tissue. Perhaps he was right.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 17:50
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
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Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBear
They never used to say “good fats.”


This is so true!
Good fats to them is not good fats to us.
They're still stuck in the past with canola oil and corn oil.

We've moved on to butter, olive oil and bacon drippings.
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 17:58
cshepard cshepard is offline
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Plan: Atkins - maintenance
Stats: 156/131/125 Female 64"
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Default

So a diet loaded with plants and avoiding dairy and meat is not restrictive???
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 18:03
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Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
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Quote:
We've moved on to butter, olive oil and bacon drippings.


LOL... are we moving forward.... or repeating our past.....? Or both?!?!? Which ever, I'm WITH YOU !
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  #7   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 19:45
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
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Quote:
Don't include a lot of meat, milk, or highly processed foods that a gardener or farmer wouldn't recognize.


What kind of meat and milk would a farmer not recognize?



Oh I know - fake meat! Meat-free meat substitutes! That's definitely "meat" that my farmer dad would have never recognized as meat.
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  #8   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 20:41
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calianna
What kind of meat and milk would a farmer not recognize?



Oh I know - fake meat! Meat-free meat substitutes! That's definitely "meat" that my farmer dad would have never recognized as meat.


Fake food like soy burgers, turkey bacon and soy milk, all too radical
for me
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Feb-08-19, 21:38
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bluesinger bluesinger is offline
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Plan: n=1:TheraKeto
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Since I've been in ketosis most of the time since 1972, if it's gonna kill me, it better hurry up. I'm one of the healthiest 73-year-olds around.
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Feb-09-19, 04:13
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Calianna Calianna is offline
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Plan: Atkins-ish (hypoglycemia)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
Fake food like soy burgers, turkey bacon and soy milk, all too radical
for me



Oh yes, the other parts of that quote apply too -
Quote:
Don't include a lot of meat, milk, or highly processed foods that a gardener or farmer wouldn't recognize.




The gardener might recognize soy beans, and of course would be upset about a fungus growing on (and ruining) his corn crop, but process those things enough, and you have soy milk, soy cheese, soy yogurt, soy ice cream, soy "chicken" nuggets, and a whole plethora of Quorn products.



Then there's the multitude of other things that no one from 100 years ago would recognize as coming the plant from which they were derived - cashew milk, almond milk, flax milk, hemp milk, oat milk. The variety of highly processed frankenfood products that are stamped with the aura of better-for-you-than-the-real-thing is astounding these days.



Having said that, I do understand that people who are highly sensitive or allergic to certain things (gluten, lactose, etc) do develop a craving for the foods they miss, or the need for some kind of occasional substitute that just makes life easier (for instance, a bread that the gluten intolerant can actually eat - so much quicker and easier to eat a bagged lunch if your meat and cheese are between two slices of bread). That's the very same reason we have so many LC treat recipes, bread recipes, oopsies, etc. The commercially made substitutes have gotten out of hand though, and it happens with LC substitutes too. Just yesterday I clicked on an article that claimed to show the best LC desserts, and I thought it was going to be recipes. Nope, not a single recipe. Every single item was a LC frankenfood, available at an outrageous price.
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Feb-09-19, 05:13
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WereBear WereBear is online now
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Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
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Default

On one level, it is easy to demonize animal foods, since there are awful practices being perpetrated now that animal husbandry has become the province of large-scale corporate entities. Just as the warnings about saturated fat rolled downhill like a snowball and avalanched into FEAR OF FAT in general. Both of these food categories played into a sort of Puritan Nutrition attitude.

This was crystallized for me when I stopped by a health food store near my office and their special of the day was the “Righteous Reuben.” It was homemade rye bread and saukraut, with “cheese” and “pastrami” made from soy, and dressing made with cold-pressed canola oil.

They eat in a way that makes them feel virtuous, ethical, healthy, and superior. The fact that eating such highly processed un-natural foods is none of those things will not penetrate their belief system.

I think if we dig down into large scale vegan movements, we’ll see lots of processed food corporate money. Look at the floods of KETO IS DEATH headlines we are seeing. It is lying propaganda from media companies who advertise cereal and donuts and soda. It’s people like Jillian Michaels whose empires are being threatened simply by a growing interest in eating real food.

Though I consider the absolute biggest problem comes from the science, medical, and governmental authorities who will not admit a mistake. So they are complicit in letting these lies proliferate. They aren’t going to hang Ancel Keys in effigy, even thought they should: the man who started it all jiggered his data.
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  #12   ^
Old Sat, Feb-09-19, 08:09
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doreen T doreen T is offline
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Default

This study was also discussed here .. https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=481085

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  #13   ^
Old Sat, Feb-09-19, 08:38
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GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
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Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
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Default

I was listening yesterday to Samantha Heller who has a show on Doctor Radio on Sirius/XM. She's a RD and Fitness Expert. She had as guests Dr. Michael Roizen and Dr. Michael Crupain who wrote the recently release book, "What to Eat When: A Strategic Plan to Improve Your Health and Life Through Food." They had some excellent recommendations on meal timing, emphasizing that a healthy breakfast to ensure Circadian rhythms coincide with the release of Insulin and Cortisol. So, they recommended a morning meal and a larger meal at lunch followed by a healthy, small portion meal at dinner. I can agree with that; although I don't eat early in the morning. They also emphasized that it's extremely important what we eat, and they recommended a healthy, plant-based or Mediterranean diet as the best choices with plenty of healthy fish (salmon) for protein fortified with healthy grains, legumes, and olive oil. I understand that there are many who can achieve health with these dietary approaches. They also recommended to cut out sugar. I can agree with that as well. They then went on to highlight T. Colin Campbell's "The China Study" as the epitome of good eating research and findings along with recommending we NOT eat red meat or dairy. To these two "experts," a low carb or ketogenic approach would have been heresy whether or not one included dairy.

A few observations:
1) Recently, we are hearing more and more from the plant-based advocates considering the recent EAT-Lancet paper and other dietary recommendations.
2) Red meat is still characterized as unhealthy and Roizen even stated that consumption would shorten lifespan. This is based on no, zero rigorous studies that can definitively isolate red meat as a health risk.
3) Nothing they stated on the radio show was based on anything other than epidemiological information. They were never asked, but I'm guessing they couldn't cite any RCTs that could get to isolating red meat as a causative factor of poor health. It's all correlation with so many confounding variables involved that we're still making up stuff that's interpreted as facts.
4) Why the dairy negative bias? It appeared to fit into the logic that saturated fats are bad, so dairy falls into that category.
5) They vilified coconut oil and characterized it as very dangerous since MCTs can cross the blood-brain barrier and bring inflammation and other deficits to brain functioning. While they didn't come out and state it (at least during the time I was listening), the implication of coconut oil consumption is that it plays a role in developing AD, dementia, and other neurological conditions due to its consumption.

Needless to say, I am startled at how the nutrition camps have set up, and some are unwilling to admit that epidemiological studies can't be used to indict any food as a root cause to poor health. Rather, they have their preferences and biases and conveniently use weak information as gospel to support their preferences. I can see the drumbeat starting to result in a broader effort to discourage red meat consumption to the point where it will become a political issues with tax and farming control costs being debated. We could see a rise in prices of those foods that fall under the category as being health risks, and we've already started to see that campaign.
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  #14   ^
Old Sat, Feb-09-19, 08:44
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
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Quote:
What kind of meat and milk would a farmer not recognize?


I have raised my own lamb for some 30 years, dabbled in gardening, and more recently ramped up all aspects, o include chickens, ducks, turkeys and vegetable gardens and planted an orchard.

The quote above means, how closely does the food product look like it was just picked, or just " invited for dinner" as we say about a chicken ? When we "process" our food here on our small farm, the food item has been cut into parts and lots of herbs and butter or evoo added and thats really it. After the effort to grow and harvest, we have little energy to make it into french fries or ground meat or " nuggets"-- we just want to EAT a meal.

IMO nothing wrong with a soy burger-- vegie burgers can be rather tastey. BUT most soy is GMO now. ANd a commercially made product has all kinds of flavor enhancers and similar addatives. In college, the book of Food Addatives was 3 inches thick. Not saying all these are "bad" for you, but rather are they necessary for the home cook? The answer is no.

Even I cannot duplicate the taste that addatives bring to the food, but on the other hand Im looking for " cleaner" food and my tastebuds will just have to keep adapting. What else assiting with this change is to learn MORE about cooking and how to copy the Asian methods of food prep as they use many umame flavorings and the hot / spicy vegies to create complex tongue experiences. I usually leave out the sugar sweeteners, but do find sweet vegies like carrots and butternut bring another dimension of sweetness that makes for a better flavored dish.

THe original question is, does the farmer recognize the food..... " minimally processed" is the answer. And that allows cutting the whole into pieces. Or simply warming the milk, and adding enzymes and salt then drying/aging for a few months. Or picking the beans, toss with EVOO and salt, then put under broiler for a few minutes. Minimally processed.
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Feb-09-19, 09:07
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 9,768
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Needless to say, I am startled at how the nutrition camps have set up, and some are unwilling to admit that epidemiological studies can't be used to indict any food as a root cause to poor health. Rather, they have their preferences and biases and conveniently use weak information as gospel to support their preferences.





A few observations:
1) Recently, we are hearing more and more from the plant-based advocates considering the recent EAT-Lancet paper and other dietary recommendations.
2) Red meat is still characterized as unhealthy and Roizen even stated that consumption would shorten lifespan. This is based on no, zero rigorous studies that can definitively isolate red meat as a health risk.
3) Nothing they stated on the radio show was based on anything other than epidemiological information. They were never asked, but I'm guessing they couldn't cite any RCTs that could get to isolating red meat as a causative factor of poor health. It's all correlation with so many confounding variables involved that we're still making up stuff that's interpreted as facts.
4) Why the dairy negative bias? It appeared to fit into the logic that saturated fats are bad, so dairy falls into that category.
5) They vilified coconut oil and characterized it as very dangerous since MCTs can cross the blood-brain barrier and bring inflammation and other deficits to brain functioning. While they didn't come out and state it (at least during the time I was listening), the implication of coconut oil consumption is that it plays a role in developing AD, dementia, and other neurological conditions due to its consumption.



Rob, you sum things up so well.

1. Im hearing more and more on the TV and utube ads for the support of vegetarian diets. Partly supported because we do not have enough food fr everyone and the meat animal eat those grains AND are vilified for polluting the atmosphere with greenhouse gasses. Nothing is ever said about the HUMAN population as a factor.

2/3. My current understanding of meat is that commercially raised/processed meats are NOT what we used to eat. When livestock can walk around the fields and eat at will, the overall product we then consume is far different than the commercially fed and raised livestock. My chickens are great bug hunters....
From what I have studied, the vitamin content of meat is very low, and the make up of the fats are radically different ( the ratio of omega 3's and 6's for example, where the omega 6's cause much inflammation, and that is primarily what we eat now.)

4. Dairy. Again many changes here from how they ere raised a few generations ago. European dairy cattle are raised on grass still! OUr milk products contain ANTIBIOTICS. In every mouthful. It is ultrapasturized, too. As well as the change in omega 3's and omeags 6's, raw milk has a very different profile of characteristics.

5. Dr May I think it was, used CO to treat her husband during his long bout with ALzheimers, because CO has the same chemical as the drug used in an ALzheimers trial. That seems to contradict the anti CO angle.

ANyway......
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