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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Jan-01-19, 11:35
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
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Plan: PSMF/IF
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Location: Alamo city, Texas
Lightbulb Kefir to prevent Gum Disease?

Kefir to prevent Gum Disease?

As I have long expected, and personally experienced: the 40+probiotic microorganisms in home-made kefir can prevent colonization of the human mouth by pathogenic bacteria that leads to periodontists. It's "the genius of simplicity" when the dental hygienist told me "you have bad bacteria in your mouth and there is no cure but antibiotics" a light came on. As a molecular biologist I knew antibiotics were not the answer and there must be something else. That something is "competitive inhibition" like fighting fire with fire.

A recent study in microbiome showing alcoholic drinks and mouthwashes promote an unfavorable mouth flora as probiotic bacteria are eliminated -- it shores up my hypothesis.

So drink up! Or at least use kefir, or its whey, as a mouth rinse before bed.
Quote:
Researchers found, in the study of 1,044 adults and their mouthwash samples, that those who were heavier drinkers had more Actinomyces, Leptotrichia, Cardiobacterium, and Neisseria types of bad bacteria. According to the researchers, Neisseria can synthesize the carcinogen acetaldehyde from ethanol.

Inversely, heavier drinkers had less of a good type of bacteria, Lactobacillales, often used in probiotics. “These results are no surprise to me,” said Katz.

Subjects were categorized as nondrinkers, moderate drinkers, or heavy drinkers. Alcohol types were categorized under liquor, beer, or wine.
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...t-leave-the-bad

Next step, and it could be a difficult one? Ill try to culture a 'bad bacteria' type, try to determine which organisms in kefir have natural antibiotic properties or some genetic activity. Not a new idea; that's how penicillin, streptomycin and neomycin were discovered.

Last edited by mike_d : Tue, Jan-01-19 at 11:41.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Jan-01-19, 11:54
kathleen24 kathleen24 is offline
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Interesting! I've started adding about ten drops of Betadine to the water in my oral irrigator to knock out the `bad bugs', but it hadn't occurred to me to add back the good guys in the microbiome. I eat yogurt daily, but it doesn't coincide with my oral hygiene routine.
How long after the iodine rinse would it still be lethal, and thus how long necessary to wait before adding the good guys back? What about simply rinsing with water with a probiotic capsule opened up in it rather than eating kefir (after which logic would suggest one would need to clean one's teeth again, necessitating eating more kefir, ad infinitum . . .)
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Jan-01-19, 18:33
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nawchem nawchem is offline
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Plan: No gluten, CAD
Stats: 196.0/158.5/149.0 Female 62
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As a person with this awful disease, the single best things I have found is teeth cleanings, grape fruit seed extract, Sonic toothbrush, lowcarb (the first week is worse things improve after that), brushing after every meal, peroxide rinses although some bacteria have defenses against it, sugar free gum.

I did not notice any improvements from ingestion of good bacteria, antibiotics, 10% bleach solution.

Good luck with your research Mike, update on your discoveries.

Last edited by nawchem : Tue, Jan-01-19 at 18:59.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Jan-01-19, 21:02
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,439
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathleen24
Interesting! I've started adding about ten drops of Betadine to the water in my oral irrigator to knock out the `bad bugs', but it hadn't occurred to me to add back the good guys in the microbiome. I eat yogurt daily, but it doesn't coincide with my oral hygiene routine.
How long after the iodine rinse would it still be lethal, and thus how long necessary to wait before adding the good guys back? What about simply rinsing with water with a probiotic capsule opened up in it rather than eating kefir (after which logic would suggest one would need to clean one's teeth again, necessitating eating more kefir, ad infinitum . . .)
Iodine sublimes within minutes and no you don't need to brush after kefir, that's the whole point. It will recolonize the mouth and choke out everything else. Nothing grows in kefir but kefir -- kind of like sourdough that does not spoil. Here is a basic laundry list of organisms found in natural kefir. Cultures do vary, this is one list I found:

Well, that's way too many to list here plus a ton of kefir information

http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna...mposition-of-KG

https://www.healthline.com/nutritio...nefits-of-kefir

Where I got my live starter:

https://www.fusionteas.com/fresh-mi...grains-organic/

Hope this helps. I just took my 2 years old (for me anyway) culture out of the fridge to ferment for tomorrow evening because I forgot to do it yesterday, kefir for the New Year!

Last edited by mike_d : Tue, Jan-01-19 at 21:32.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jan-01-19, 21:12
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Mike, im thrilled to read one more arrow in the quiver of prevention. I do drink kefir in small doses when i have a bottle in the refridge.
Otherwise the fuzzy on my teeth is gone with low carb and brushing with baking soda. The fuzzy comes back and is a reminder i am off plan eating.

Listerine was poured down the drain some time ago.

With the overuse of antibiotics, interest in other methods of supporting a healthy microbiome thruout my body is an on going quest.

My SIL had thrush which lasted over a year....with conventional treatment. I often wonder if a faster option is possible to treat thrush. Like swishing with coconut oil or honey. As both are anti biotic and anti fungal.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jan-01-19, 21:41
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,439
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
I often wonder if a faster option is possible to treat thrush. Like swishing with coconut oil or honey. As both are anti biotic and anti fungal.
Tried "oil pulling" and it didn't help. Honey? The oral wellness drops I use daily contain, among several essential oils, extract oil of the Manuka plant -- not the honey.

https://orawellness.com/whats-in-healthy-mouth-blend/
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 00:31
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nawchem nawchem is offline
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Plan: No gluten, CAD
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I'm not sure how this works but most periodontal disease is caused by anaerobic bacteria that live under the gums, not sitting there in the mouth. Even when I get deep under the gum cleaning which is one side on one day, other side the next. You have to clean the sides very close time wise because they just move to the other side. They double the population every 30 minutes, so you would have to kill every single one as they are oppurtunistic.

There is a very good antibacterial chorhexidine rinse I used once when I couldn't brush for 10 days. It is by prescription and non-toxic to humans.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 03:42
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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I'm reading this thread while having my morning kefir. I stopped mouthwash and toothpaste use long ago. Mix my own baking soda and coconut oil. Brush and tooth blot daily. I'm glad kefir helps my oral microbiome. Also take a daily teaspoon of cod liver oil.

Last edited by s93uv3h : Wed, Jan-02-19 at 04:07.
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 03:56
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
Now is a great time to order and avoid those hot shipping containers.

Last edited by s93uv3h : Wed, Jan-02-19 at 04:07.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 07:41
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_d
Tried "oil pulling" and it didn't help. Honey? The oral wellness drops I use daily contain, among several essential oils, extract oil of the Manuka plant -- not the honey.

https://orawellness.com/whats-in-healthy-mouth-blend/


Generally speaking, I prefer to crowd out bad bacteria with good bacteria rather than just assaulting the bad bacteria population with antibiotics unless in a frank disease state. The Antibacteria effect kills good bacteria too. Hence the conclusion that crowding out the bad bacteria with an abundance of good ones, and the environment to help the good ones flourish. So I did not try tooth pulling with coconut oil but chose to use baking soda to change the pH in the mouth.

IMHO yogurt is highly overrated. Kefir is a better option. Far more strains of bacteria that are known to be beneficial, and at far a higher concentration, too. The high calcium content of yogurt is problematic as it is not balanced with the other major minerals; it is just a super dose of calcium and Lacks enough Magnesium, Phosphorus, and potassium.
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  #11   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 14:11
nawchem's Avatar
nawchem nawchem is offline
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Plan: No gluten, CAD
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But is it really so simple? Flood the body with preferential bacteria and they will be stronger than the other bacteria and kill them and replace them. I had a terrific holistic dr that had me taking probiotics 20 years ago. I took them for a few years, eventually came to the conclusion that I was throwing money away, or the value was something you would never notice. Quitting grains seemed to work better for my health than any other thing I've ever done.
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  #12   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 14:35
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
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I might try Kefir again. IDK if I was drinking too much when I tried because it kept making so much I was stockpiling it but I had a bad reaction around week 3-4. My head began itching horribly like needles poking into my head and the only thing I could think of was a fungus overgrowth. A good amount it in Kefir as I read. I stopped and the itching went way. Just to be clear, I have never had a yeast infection that I remember except when I was a kid because the Dr. use to give Penecillin injections at the drop of a hat. But in recent years, no. So it's not like I am prone to it.
Now I read at the link Mike posted that there are differences in strains depending on what part of the world it's from. I suspected this. Then I also wonder if a high humidity environment like I live in might increase the fungus in the Kefir...IDK?
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 19:35
kathleen24 kathleen24 is offline
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Progress: 121%
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So many interesting posts! Thank you to everyone that shared your ideas and experience/expertise.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Jan-02-19, 20:02
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Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
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Plan: Atkins DANDR
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Well I almost hate to say what happened with me because I don't want to deter anyone from trying it based on what I found with me. We are all different. Obviously a lot of people have good experiences. I may try it again.
The first link Mike posted in the group had a very detailed web-site where he goes into great detail about where he obtained his Kefir grains and how he mixed some from all parts of the world.
It's very interesting reading!
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Jan-03-19, 11:34
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
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Plan: atkins
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Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
I might try Kefir again. IDK if I was drinking too much when I tried because it kept making so much I was stockpiling it but I had a bad reaction around week 3-4. My head began itching horribly like needles poking into my head and the only thing I could think of was a fungus overgrowth. A good amount it in Kefir as I read. I stopped and the itching went way. Just to be clear, I have never had a yeast infection that I remember except when I was a kid because the Dr. use to give Penecillin injections at the drop of a hat. But in recent years, no. So it's not like I am prone to it.
Now I read at the link Mike posted that there are differences in strains depending on what part of the world it's from. I suspected this. Then I also wonder if a high humidity environment like I live in might increase the fungus in the Kefir...IDK?

Quote:
Well I almost hate to say what happened with me because I don't want to deter anyone from trying it based on what I found with me. We are all different. Obviously a lot of people have good experiences. I may try it again. The first link Mike posted in the group had a very detailed web-site where he goes into great detail about where he obtained his Kefir grains and how he mixed some from all parts of the world. It's very interesting reading!

Meme, as you know I always have 2 cents worth to add.

Getting the balance right is an individual thing. ANd while no doc will help; using your own noggin' as you do is your best recourse.

Perhaps retry and see if the same response appears? Or try less often? Did you use a commercial source? Might be a good place to start as their processing controls/ eliminates contaminants.

We usually have some levels of fungal material on our body; it is normal flora. How much and where is the balancing act. Dr Atkins talked about yeast overgrowth in our guts, and imp lied that some people have a negative reaction ( an allergic reaction) to some fungal food sources. As I remember he mentioned vinegar and mushrooms, as well as several other surprising sources.

When we have a severe case that is in a disease state that our body can not control, that is a good time to bring out the big guns to knock it down, and then have the body get back on the job. We often use CO to treat fungal issues. In two cases here at my house, we used coconut oil to knock out athletes feet; and I used CO to kill, and now control, fungal growth in my belly button. My son gets a staph going around his nostrils, and the CO will knock it down. It regularly reoccurs, but now that I am thinking about it, it has been a LONG time since it appeared. I also find honey is a natural anti- fungal. CO and honey dont work on exactly the same organisms; but cannot find a list of specific organisms they do affect; I just know if one is not working, try the other.

When I used to make bread, I would sample the batter. I learned to NOT do this. Resulted in terrible cramps. TERRIBLE. The yeast went wild in my GI, and loved all the carby food in there. ( I gave up bread baking almost 20 years ago-- when I first read DANDR. Making and eating a loaf everyday was NOT a good thing!! )

A few years ago,I could stay lc for a long time and then would cave to fresh baked bread. My GI would moderately cramp up and roil for 24 hours of discomfort. PITA really. But not like eating raw bread dough!! The answer was to take a probiotic pill to fix this asap. After a number of times, ya slow learner here!, I kept taking a probiotic every day for a long time. So when I did fall off the wagon and indulge in bread, the GI upset was totally avoided. My take away was that I had lost the microbes to handle the sudden intake of highly refined carbs in the form of bread flour; just like my horse that loved to suck down spring green grass and get a belly ache... all because the necessary GI microbes were not in place to help with proper digestion after a winter of first cut hay. ( I figured out this is the reason the recommendation is to change livestock diet gradually over two weeks!!! ANd WE too are just a form of livestock. LOL )

ANyway, my thought is that our body works best when all is in harmony. And our modern foods are devoid of getting in a regular allotment of a great variety of microbes. And devoid of the foods that keep them growing. ( NOT saying eating bread is a wise choice, lol)

Been reading lots on the lack of correct organisms transferring to our babies because we have too many c-sections and too few are breast feeding. Both are means of transferring and feeding the right organisms for optimal health.
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