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  #31   ^
Old Sat, Nov-10-18, 05:12
marylpn1 marylpn1 is offline
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Posts: 18
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 186/186/145 Female 5 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Central PA
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Just a quick question but I have often wondered this and perhaps someone can enlighten me. When you are eating high fat/low carb you would think that the body would burn dietary fat before it burn stored body fat. Am I wrong in that thinking? Wonder how you would lose stored fat if that is the case. Appreciate any thoughts on this
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  #32   ^
Old Sat, Nov-10-18, 06:26
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,104
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylpn1
Just a quick question but I have often wondered this and perhaps someone can enlighten me. When you are eating high fat/low carb you would think that the body would burn dietary fat before it burn stored body fat. Am I wrong in that thinking? Wonder how you would lose stored fat if that is the case. Appreciate any thoughts on this
My simple understanding is that after you are Keto-Adapted your body can burn both stored and dietary fats equally well. They are mixed in the "FFA turnover pool". https://blog.virtahealth.com/dietar...tored-fat-keto/

So this is why Dr. Westman, if your goal is weight loss, asks that you add dietary fat "only to satiety" Pouring extra fats in coffee to hit some macro will prevent or at least slow burning what is on your body. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRHS8oUDXFc

Oxidative Priority also looks at other fuels also: https://www.marksdailyapple.com/oxi...ls-to-the-body/

The Intake and Expenditure graphs that are in the 2010 New Atkins book were what finally clearified this concept for me. Similar graph in this article: https://blog.virtahealth.com/well-f...ketogenic-diet/

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Nov-10-18 at 12:56.
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  #33   ^
Old Sat, Nov-10-18, 07:41
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,068
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/215/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 37%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylpn1
...When you are eating high fat/low carb you would think that the body would burn dietary fat before it burn stored body fat. Am I wrong in that thinking? Wonder how you would lose stored fat if that is the case. Appreciate any thoughts on this

It is my opinion that you are spot on!

What tends to happen is that you will become less hungry as you train your body to use fat as fuel - or in the parlance around here "fat adapted". When your metabolism starts to use fat for primary fuel source when you are in a calorie deficits for your current ECRMS (i just made this up, Ever Changing Resting Metabolic State) and there is no recent dietary Fat, converted Protein or Carbohydrate available for fuel - fat stored in and around the body can be used. Like over night when you're sleeping.

Little by Little, drop by drop

Since there is no way to calculate ECRMS accurately - as this will change minute by minute depending on the environment that the organism (you) is inhabiting (the world) - the idea of eating to satiation is encouraged as a way to control calorie (potential energy) intake. The body is doing this already or you would be 10,000 lbs and dead far before then , but, we think here, that, in general, prolonged and over consumption of refined carbohydrate (generally sugar) messes up a normally functioning governing mechanism - The feedback loop of ECRMS and "appetite" - at least this is a theory I just made up now.

It is also my theory that over feeding on fat will increase ECRMS as well without increasing appetite commensurately. You may gain weight and, if continuing to overfeed (on fat), most definitely will (I have tested this on myself). But the beautiful part of this after the change (fat adaption) is that when you stop over feeding the body, it's still in a state to start using fat again, fat that has been stored, either recently or a long time ago.

Wow, I just made all that stuff up - but it is based on observations on myself and anecdotal information I have gathered from other's observations on themselves from over 3 years participating on this website.

It is my opinion not to pay attention to the scale and ...



And do this for at least a year - your body will perhaps slowly or perhaps quickly return to a state that, a term folks hate around here, "Energy IN is approximately equal to Energy OUT" over time, this will always be in flux. eventually your weight may stabilize and naturally vary around a point it was designed to at this particular point in your life... and this will continue to change without having to use a slide rule and ledger paper

Last edited by thud123 : Sat, Nov-10-18 at 07:51.
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  #34   ^
Old Sat, Nov-10-18, 12:58
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,104
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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The Turkey (Stuffing) has landed! New recipe with whey isolate and oat fiber. 2g carbs.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/...VU5jaWjE LbPKQ the cornbread uses some of the newer baking substitutes that reduce the carbs, the 2016 recipe uses a bread made from almond flour, other use a Soul Bread type recipe.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Nov-11-18 at 04:33.
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  #35   ^
Old Sun, Nov-11-18, 06:42
marylpn1 marylpn1 is offline
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Posts: 18
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 186/186/145 Female 5 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Central PA
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Thanks for the very clear explanation! Wow, our bodies are truly amazing aren't they? I am going to take the advice of deciding on one plan and sticking with it. Leaning toward Atkins. I have the latest Atkins books, not the 2002 version. May have to borrow a copy and determine the differences. What I have learned from all of you is even if I don't do it perfectly, as long as I reduce my carbs and increase my healthy fats I will be going in a much better direction than the path I'm on now. So, off to the store I go!
Thanks again! Mary
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  #36   ^
Old Sun, Nov-11-18, 06:55
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,104
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Great..I really like the Atkins newest book using real food. It was all the editions between 2010 until this current one in Dec 2017 that were designed around using a big box/kit of shakes and bars that I didnít like.

Older editions are often found in libraries, used book sales, thrift stores and Amazon used for a penny, only pay for media shipping.

https://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=478777

Last edited by JEY100 : Mon, Nov-12-18 at 03:34.
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  #37   ^
Old Sun, Nov-11-18, 15:13
gzgirl gzgirl is offline
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Posts: 61
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR/ Candida
Stats: 300/242/158 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 41%
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Mary, if you are leaning towards DANDR, I may have a spare copy I can send you. You can PM me your address if you are interested.
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  #38   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 07:07
marylpn1 marylpn1 is offline
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Posts: 18
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 186/186/145 Female 5 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Central PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gzgirl
Mary, if you are leaning towards DANDR, I may have a spare copy I can send you. You can PM me your address if you are interested.


Gzgirl,
Thank you so much for the offer but unfortunately I am unable to PM you. It keeps saying I don't have that privilege. After clicking on your name it asks if I want to send you a private message and when I try to, I get a message saying I am not allowed.
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  #39   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 08:25
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,104
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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This forum allows PM after you have made 25 posts. Or you can subscribe for more privledges like no ads.
https://forum.lowcarber.org/subscriptions.php

Happened to listen again to a April podcast (or YouTube) with Dr. Jason Fung. We always talk about what foods to eat, how much dietary fat vs. stored fat, etc. and not enough about when to eat.
This was a great episode on when stored fat will be burned. https://highintensityhealth.com/jas...lin-resistance/ Much more about Dr. Fung is in the Diabetes sub-forum. His book The Obesity Code is also excellent, a good follow-up to Why We Get Fat, and popular, our library has it.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Nov-13-18 at 08:43.
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  #40   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 10:01
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,459
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylpn1
Just a quick question but I have often wondered this and perhaps someone can enlighten me. When you are eating high fat/low carb you would think that the body would burn dietary fat before it burn stored body fat. Am I wrong in that thinking? Wonder how you would lose stored fat if that is the case. Appreciate any thoughts on this


A slightly more technical answer is that we generally burn a mix of dietary and body fat. On the standard diet, the assumption I've seen is 50/50--say, if you eat 100 grams of fat a day on a mixed diet and are in balance, you can expect to store roughly 50 grams of dietary fat, and access 50 grams of body fat. So on net you'd not be losing any body fat, but 50 grams a day is being replaced from dietary fat.

A contention among low carbers that's still being tested (there's a study looking at this that should be out soon) is that eating a less insulinogenic diet will increase metabolic rate. That should mean more fat burned at a given calorie intake, if you replace carbohydrate in the diet with fat or protein, at least once you get down to the very low carb end of things.

One place to look at dietary fat displacing body fat for oxidation is fasting. Of course there, all fat burned will be "body" fat. There's a bit of false information out there that fasting does not decrease metabolic rate. It's false. True for a day or two--after that there is a large decrease in metabolic rate. One study in divinity students, mostly in their twenties, fasted 8 days had their daily calorie burn down to 1100 calories a day, that's at least 500 calories lower than you'd expect their basal metabolic rate to be. So--there's some truth that you do need to eat something on a daily basis to keep your metabolic rate up (but maybe you can get away with the 24 hour fasts that are the longest fasts we can advocate here under forum rules), so if you do need to eat something on a daily basis, I think it's wise to still minimize insulin--and once protein requirements are met, the best way to do that is to get as much of the rest of your calorie intake as possible from fat. You can still experiment, see how much fat is needed to satisfy your appetite, how low you can bring it on a daily basis without finding your energy levels dropping, etc.
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  #41   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 10:36
LCer4Life's Avatar
LCer4Life LCer4Life is offline
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 155/129/125 Female 63
BF:33.2/29.2%/24%
Progress: 87%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
The Turkey (Stuffing) has landed! New recipe with whey isolate and oat fiber. 2g carbs.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/...VU5jaWjE LbPKQ the cornbread uses some of the newer baking substitutes that reduce the carbs, the 2016 recipe uses a bread made from almond flour, other use a Soul Bread type recipe.


Has anyone made this? Recommendation of coconut flour vs. Almond flour. I happen to have almond. Taste different? I havenít done much baking on LC. Just mostly natural.
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  #42   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 11:22
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,104
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCer4Life
Has anyone made this? Recommendation of coconut flour vs. Almond flour. I happen to have almond. Taste different? I havenít done much baking on LC. Just mostly natural.
16 people have rated it, moderators, etc on her FB page do test recipes. I have not yet made it myself......But...do not substitute coconut flour with almond flour. Two totally different products.
If you want to use almond flour, use her first recipe on YouTube. Also corn extract is hard to find and expensive. I think there are simpler stuffing recipes using almond flour breads, lots of celelry, sausage and nuts.

https://www.ditchthecarbs.com/ultim...s-almond-flour/

Around Christmas, I make pecan cookies with coconut flour...I think those are good use of a fine fiberous powder.
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  #43   ^
Old Tue, Nov-13-18, 11:31
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,104
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
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Thanks, teaser,

Quote:
A slightly more technical answer is that we generally burn a mix of dietary and body fat. On the standard diet, the assumption I've seen is 50/50--say, if you eat 100 grams of fat a day on a mixed diet and are in balance, you can expect to store roughly 50 grams of dietary fat, and access 50 grams of body fat. So on net you'd not be losing any body fat, but 50 grams a day is being replaced from dietary fat.


Knew you would have a better, more detailed answer! Dr. Fung was being quite definitive in this podcast about when body fat starts to be burned.
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  #44   ^
Old Wed, Nov-14-18, 06:33
marylpn1 marylpn1 is offline
New Member
Posts: 18
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 186/186/145 Female 5 foot 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Central PA
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Thank you for taking the time to explain all this. Very fascinating how our bodies are able to supply its energy needs when it has the proper balance of macronutrients.
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