Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > General Health
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members Calendar Mark Forums Read Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #46   ^
Old Wed, Dec-05-18, 09:32
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,990
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patriciakr
Can you give me the link to that thread?
I am still a bit shell shocked. I was told over the phone when I got my biopsy results. No discussion of potential treatments "if", no mention of diet changes, good books to read, support groups. Just nothing.
I have my first post surgical cystoscopy upcoming and I will nail him to the floor if I have to, to get my questions answered.
That said, it's on me to get to oh, say my internist with some questions, and I have found this fall too chaotic to do so. I have found an online support group where I just listen (and swallow hard because none of it is easy to read), and I've been researching bladder cancer - amazing to find out how common this is.


Your efforts to understand this polyp and how cancers function will give ou great ammunition to fight off this cancerous growth.

In my experience doctors will NOT talk about anything they dont have training for. Dont let that stop you like it did me. I was not told about diet, or weight, or anything that I could do to prevent breast cancer. Only tamoxifin when the cancer arose, or surgery now. I picked surgery. Remove the tissue BEFORE it became cancerous. In the years since, I have regretted this move as it caused other problems, ones the surgeons did not warn me about.

Some steps I have taken to improve my chances. ( Again I dont have cancer)

1. Brush my teeth with baking soda. Changes the microflora in my mouth, and what I swallow.
2. Help the body maintain the correct pH: swallow the baking soda, AVOID soda/ pop, avoid grains. the body works hard to keep pH normalized and will steal from the bones to do this.
3.increased the amount of organic/ grass fed meats and vegies, etc. Especially the fats/beef to boost the omega 3 and lower the omega 6's
4.Vit D, 10,000 units in the northern winter
5. Need to get more vit C a day--have been eating 1-3 guava a day but need to buy more. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-c-foods. Noshing on frozen cranberies for now.
6.No cholorinated water, no flouridated water ( noflouridated toothpaste)
7. Include black pepper, mushrooms, tumeric,onion/scallions in my cooking; along with many other herbs and spices like thyme, rosemary, sage, oregano, garlic. Read a book on feeding dogs which included celery and cukes.
8. Use iodized salt and sea salts.
9. eat foods to keep microbiome supported: kombucha, kefire, raw sauerkraut, along with the foods they like: asparagus, artichokes, and more.
10. 2-4 cups of green tea a day.
11. Learning which food my body has an intolerance for. Likely aged cheese.
12. Be wary of dairy as it contains antibiotics-- even though it is not supposed to have any at all. Looking for local sources. Have been thinking about dropping dairy for a while now. Toying with possiblity of dairy goats in stead of sheep.
13. Eat more cold water fish like sardines
14. Eat more greens, specially sauted in OO or grassfed butter
15. Dropped all "vegetable oils" like soybean oil, corn oil, etc. Only butter, olive oil and coconut oil. Looking for others to add.
16. Adding back broth and soups. WITH THE BONES.

Problem areas--- still carry too much fat, especially in basketball belly; and dont walk enough. Have been trying to throw ball for the dog but even that is not enough.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #47   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 05:21
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,148
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Then why would the docs remove the ovaries and force the body INTO menopause before its time??
Answer depends on type of breast cancer, other treatments completed, metastasis, etc. But a common form (75% ? Or so) is ER+ or Estrogen Receptor Positive, PR + or Progesterone Receptor positive so the doctor removes this organ with estrogen which can stimulate more cancers if metastatic, or in ovary itself. More women choose surgical removal because hormonal suppression of the ovary is the pits (injections). If post-menopausal, or an ER negative cancer, HER2 status, the invasive Triple Negative type, different hormonal treatments are used.
Reply With Quote
  #48   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 06:57
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,148
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patriciakr
Can you give me the link to that thread?
I am still a bit shell shocked. I was told over the phone when I got my biopsy results. No discussion of potential treatments "if", no mention of diet changes, good books to read, support groups. Just nothing.
I have my first post surgical cystoscopy upcoming and I will nail him to the floor if I have to, to get my questions answered.
That said, it's on me to get to oh, say my internist with some questions, and I have found this fall too chaotic to do so. I have found an online support group where I just listen (and swallow hard because none of it is easy to read), and I've been researching bladder cancer - amazing to find out how common this is.


Patricia, when I hear stories like yours, I get so very upset by the way some cancer patients are treated. At the very minimum, every oncologist should have access to the boatloads of information for patients written by ASCO. https://www.asco.org

The patient website is: https://www.cancer.net
If the oncologist is too clueless to buy the printed brochures/guides...at the very least you should have been given this section/link on Bladder Cancer: https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/bladder-cancer

Now that you are beyond surgery, Check the tabs above it, all great info, especially the Survivorship brochure: https://www.cancer.net/survivorship

After treatment is complete, doctors can give you this printed brochure with your own treatment protocol going forward written into that section. If the treatment protocol is long, sometimes this on-line copy is better. This allows you to have all drug names, pathology results, blood tests, radiology reports on hand to discuss with your GP...or to get a Second Opinion (and I'm a big fan of that if your first experience was less than helpful).

And my own tip, never leave a doctor's office without your own copy of tests, digital copy of films, whatever. Once that stuff goes into files, getting a copy back for a second opinion is now a labor of Job.

This is the most useful Cancer Survivorship info on the planet :
https://www.cancer.net/survivorship...ship-care-plans

Understand, you will find almost nothing in ASCO brochures about Ingregrative Oncology or Ketogenic diets, but they are out there too and you need this info first if you want to consider anything beyond what was shared by your doctor. Always start with Standard of Care, nutrition is only an adjunct therapy, but appears you could have had more shared decision making in the process leading to surgery and steps to survivorship.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Dec-06-18 at 07:15.
Reply With Quote
  #49   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 06:59
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,990
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Answer depends on type of breast cancer, other treatments completed, metastasis, etc. But a common form (75% ? Or so) is ER+ or Estrogen Receptor Positive, PR + or Progesterone Receptor positive so the doctor removes this organ with estrogen which can stimulate more cancers if metastatic, or in ovary itself. More women choose surgical removal because hormonal suppression of the ovary is the pits (injections). If post-menopausal, or an ER negative cancer, HER2 status, the invasive Triple Negative type, different hormonal treatments are used.


Janet--That all makes sense with a diagnosis of cancer. However this was surgery to prevent cancer; there was no diagnosis of cancer.
Reply With Quote
  #50   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 07:11
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,148
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Janet--That all makes sense with a diagnosis of cancer. However this was surgery to prevent cancer; there was no diagnosis of cancer.
Similar reasoning, if you have BRCA, cancer would be more commonly the ER+ type, so the ovaries are removed, and estrogen from fat tissue could additionally be controlled with Tamoxifen. https://www.breastcancer.org/treatm...l/ovary_removal

Quote:
While most of the estrogen in a woman's body is made by the ovaries, smaller amounts of estrogen are made in other parts of the body; a steroid produced by the adrenal glands is made into estrogen in fat tissue. This is why you still might take tamoxifen after prophylactic ovary removal -- to block the effect of any estrogen in your body.

Last edited by JEY100 : Thu, Dec-06-18 at 08:01.
Reply With Quote
  #51   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 09:22
patriciakr's Avatar
patriciakr patriciakr is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,261
 
Plan: CALP with Primal Leanings
Stats: 368/291.2/160 Female 5' 4
BF:toodmnmch
Progress: 37%
Location: In the woods
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
Patricia, when I hear stories like yours, I get so very upset by the way some cancer patients are treated. At the very minimum, every oncologist should have access to the boatloads of information for patients written by ASCO. https://www.asco.org
<snip>

Janet, you are a gem. A lot to process in those links, I have started.

To be fair, because I really try to be, given the stage of my tumor, treatment approach is the standard. I think this next checkup is important, especially as I don't feel well - BUT - I didn't feel well prior to the discovery of the tumor and it's removal. It's either not related, or another cancer elsewhere. This is what I must discuss with him at our next meeting. Yes, I have put it off until then.
I don't have an oncologist at this point, just a urologist/surgeon with over 40 years of experience, well rated, whose patients love him (per reviews) and per the surgery scheduler (we got chatting), is a doc others in the medical arena send their family members to.
Reply With Quote
  #52   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 13:03
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,990
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Janet-- thanks for your support, you are a wealth of information. The oncologists did not offer tamoxifen prophylacticly. I was on my own. OTher than the support I get here, I am still on my own.
Reply With Quote
  #53   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 13:21
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 10,588
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/188/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 44%
Location: Texas
Default

To me, and I do not have cancer but to me, the most important after reading so much that Jey has posted, all of the links, is to stop ALL sugar consumption and increase fat consumption to the Keto level.. Sugar just feeds the cancer.
Reply With Quote
  #54   ^
Old Thu, Dec-06-18, 13:50
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,990
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Yes, but it far more complicated. SOme cancers behave differently than others as I read the studies. IF has promising effects but are not high priority for studies. Cancer treatment is big profitable money-- money goes into new treatments and very little if any into prevention.

My mother has the same cancer her as her mother, I keep asking why was the onset of one very different than the other?

Living a more keto diet is likely to help but is not the whole answer. Exposure to herbacides and pesticides is far higher now. Diary is contaminated with antibiotics despite dumping rules. Stress is higher and a daily issue for more people in the US than ever before.

I often think of the immigrant woman that left the US to go back home to the Amazon jungle. To be with family. TO swing in a hammock. To have plenty of fish and food from the jungle to eat. Living a hunter/gather life. She looked happy. I look around at the people around me, I dont see happy people. I see rushing, hustling , go-go -go people...... a few businesses around here still close on Sundays, but most stores are open now. No day of rest. No day of family. No day of friends.

Gotta run. Kids home and have only 2 hours to get in firewood, etc before sundown. lol
Reply With Quote
  #55   ^
Old Mon, Dec-10-18, 06:56
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,148
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meme#1
To me, and I do not have cancer but to me, the most important after reading so much that Jey has posted, all of the links, is to stop ALL sugar consumption and increase fat consumption to the Keto level.. Sugar just feeds the cancer.


There is enough evidence that a giant of cancer research, the most recognized name in the cancer world, is studying diet.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/prominen...to-fight-cancer
Reply With Quote
  #56   ^
Old Mon, Dec-10-18, 07:11
cotonpal's Avatar
cotonpal cotonpal is online now
Posts: 4,526
 
Plan: very low carb real food
Stats: 245/128/135 Female 62
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Vermont
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
There is enough evidence that a giant of cancer research, the most recognized name in the cancer world, is studying diet.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/prominen...to-fight-cancer


This is very good news.
Reply With Quote
  #57   ^
Old Mon, Dec-10-18, 08:34
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
Posts: 1,173
 
Plan: Atkins & IF / TRE
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
There is enough evidence that a giant of cancer research, the most recognized name in the cancer world, is studying diet.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/prominen...to-fight-cancer
Loved his book - The Emperor of All Maladies.

Reply With Quote
  #58   ^
Old Mon, Dec-10-18, 12:40
walnut's Avatar
walnut walnut is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,876
 
Plan: C:12 P:60 F:satiety
Stats: 220/177.6/142 Female 5'5
BF:0/0/0
Progress: 54%
Location: canada, eh!
Default

Hi all, just subscribing to this thread. i had cancer earlier this year and made it thru 5 weeks of chemo and radiation with fasting and keto. (12 carbs/day, 60 protein/day and fat to satiety). i read a bunch of books about keto and cancer when i was first diagnosed with precancer and started the strict keto about a week before i got the cancer diagnosis. i also went thru a major surgery while eating strict keto. i had to have potassium iv a couple of times, so my main advice of staying keto while going thru treatments would be to remember to take your electrolytes!! the potassium iv can sting a bit. it's a lot easier to use nosalt or the vega electrolytes drink. none of the medical staff really seemed to care what i was eating or not eating. i followed standard of care for my cancer and also consulted with a naturopathic physician who has a specialty in oncology. i'm told that i have a 95% chance that the cancer won't come back.

another book that i liked that hasnt been mentioned yet on this thread is 'outside the box cancer therapies'. one of the authors, paul anderson has some podcasts that i found useful. he is very much in favour of staying on a lowcarb diet to prevent cancer recurrences. in his experience, it's his patients who fall off of lowcarb for whatever reason, who are the ones who have recurrences. of course not all cancers respond to lowcarb/keto, but the majority of them do. there are only a couple of types of cancers that can mutate to feed on ketones.

another resource that i still follow is this facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/KetoCancerDiet/ i'm sure it was recommended by Janet on the other cancer thread. i think i went thru and read a lot of Janet's posts when i was initially diagnosed. Janet, you are a treasure and we are very lucky to have you here on this forum!!

i'm still dealing with a lot of brain fog from the chemo so i haven't been doing much reading or podcast-listening lately. i've also been dealing with lack of hormones from chemo/radiation-induced-menopause, and have been trialling different types of hormone replacement. i do have er+ breast cancer in my family but everyone has advised me that right now, the benefits of hrt outweigh risks, so i am taking hormone replacements, for now.

i have also been struggling to stay on track with what i'm eating for the last couple of weeks. i'm trying to find my new normal. i've been on and off of lowcarb since 2002. i sometimes wonder if i had stuck with it more, maybe i wouldn't have gotten cancer. i don't know if i can stick with 12 carbs and 60 proteins forever--i'm not a big fan of tracking/weighing my food and i get sloppy with portion sizes.

i've also done my 23andme, but i got the results back the day after i got my cancer diagnosis and haven't looked into it too much. now with this brain fog, i don't know how much good it would do to try to look at it. i know i have a mthfr mutation and there were a couple of snps that showed up on promethease that talked about increased cancer risk.
Reply With Quote
  #59   ^
Old Mon, Dec-10-18, 13:32
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,990
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Thank you for sharing your journey. Cancer is difficult to deal with at any time, an certainly during the aftermath of treatment with the brainfog, keeping to the easy to read material is very understandable. Given all that, thank you for the long post above. That was work.

I spoke to my mother, and how one treats their own specific cancer can differ from another's choice of treatment. We are still in the infancy of treatments and knowledge, hurray for the small steps in thier progress to treat this.

Im still on the defense side of how to prevent it. Likely a pipe dream but maybe not.
Reply With Quote
  #60   ^
Old Mon, Dec-10-18, 13:36
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 10,990
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Spoke to my mother last night. Her nails are not growing. Her hair has not needed a cut since last April. The doc says the nails with flourishing psoriasis and numbed by nephropathy is due to either old age, or the cancer treatments....... she struggles to cross stitch huge projects for each grandchild. I worry about her driving and holding the wheel, and accidentally injuring her fingers as she cannot feel danger before the damage is done. ( Like picking up something hot, or such.)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:25.


Copyright © 2000-2019 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.