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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Aug-12-18, 12:56
Heather436's Avatar
Heather436 Heather436 is offline
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Posts: 4
 
Plan: Adkins
Stats: 130/130/120 Female 61
BF:
Progress: 0%
Default Net carbs?

I am not new to LC but it's been 15 years since I was on it.
Can someone tell me why you don't count all carbs anymore. I understand net carbs means deducting the fiber but don't really understand why.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Aug-12-18, 12:59
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Fiber isn't digested into glucose. A small part of it may be digested into short chain fatty acids via bacteria.

So what's the point of counting it?
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Aug-12-18, 13:07
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 8,948
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Hi Heather, welcome.

Some member still count the net carbs, as that method works better for them.

I learned to subtract the fiber, and that allows a wider choice of foods. Like water chestnuts, or cherries. And brans or almond flours to make bread alternatives.

WIth this method I can rope my kids into LC eating. ( grin)
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Aug-12-18, 16:17
Heather436's Avatar
Heather436 Heather436 is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: Adkins
Stats: 130/130/120 Female 61
BF:
Progress: 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyHW
Fiber isn't digested into glucose. A small part of it may be digested into short chain fatty acids via bacteria.

So what's the point of counting it?


So fiber is actually a carb but since it's not digested, it doesn't count??
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Aug-12-18, 16:28
Heather436's Avatar
Heather436 Heather436 is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: Adkins
Stats: 130/130/120 Female 61
BF:
Progress: 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Hi Heather, welcome.

Some member still count the net carbs, as that method works better for them.

I learned to subtract the fiber, and that allows a wider choice of foods. Like water chestnuts, or cherries. And brans or almond flours to make bread alternatives.

WIth this method I can rope my kids into LC eating. ( grin)



TY Ms Arielle, This site is so large, I'm lost. LOL Is there a place I can print out list of low
carbs and one of high carbs?
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Aug-12-18, 17:07
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 8,948
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather436
TY Ms Arielle, This site is so large, I'm lost. LOL Is there a place I can print out list of low
carbs and one of high carbs?


Sorry, No list here on the forum. Perhaps Buy a book of the carb counts. Look for the food label if it has one. IF not there, I use the internet to look it up.

Most foods have a label.

There was a time I only buy foods with labls so I know exactly what I am eating for a count. Looking up each item is a PITA, but a list of the foods you commonly eat might be worth making a list of your top 10 items, and add to it as needed.
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Aug-12-18, 20:43
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is online now
Posts: 2,411
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather436
TY Ms Arielle, This site is so large, I'm lost. LOL Is there a place I can print out list of low
carbs and one of high carbs?

Hi Heather and welcome! If you go to the Atkins Diet forum and to the Atkins Induction Acceptable Food List:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=236482

You'll find exactly what you're looking for in the first post, as the Induction Phase for Atkins allows healthy vegetables that are low carb. See the categories of Salad Vegetables and Other Vegetables for specific suggestions and a comprehensive list of those and other foods that are low in carbohydrates and good for those just getting started on their low carb journeys. There are a lot of options and a good variety, so have fun and enjoy the journey!
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-18, 00:14
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Heather, if you need to look up the carb count of a specific food, I find NutritionData.com to be very helpful.
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  #9   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-18, 11:24
Heather436's Avatar
Heather436 Heather436 is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: Adkins
Stats: 130/130/120 Female 61
BF:
Progress: 0%
Default

Wow, all of you have been so helpful. Thank you!
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-18, 13:13
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 12,992
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather436
I am not new to LC but it's been 15 years since I was on it.
Can someone tell me why you don't count all carbs anymore. I understand net carbs means deducting the fiber but don't really understand why.


I subtract fiber. But it's easy because I haven't eaten any in a while.
When I am eating it, I do subtract it. But I also keep at closer to ten grams of net carbs rather than the 20 grams that seems most popular for "keto" these days.
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  #11   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-18, 14:29
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Be careful with sugar alcohols. Some people count them, some people don't.

And some are worse than others.

Maltitol and Sorbital are on the bad side. (I would count these.)

Erythritol and Xylitol are on the better side. (I would not count these, but I wouldn't go crazy consuming them either.)
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-18, 18:37
Blue Ruby Blue Ruby is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 475
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 200/175/160 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: BC
Default

I usually count total carb grams because that seems safest and doesn’t risk over eating.

However, what I notice with counting net carbs is this:

If I count “net carbs 30 grams” i will be eating more than 30g total in carbs. Looking at net carbs, it forces me to choose foods with a high indigestible fibre content (like cherries) when I eat those higher numbers.

If i were to “justify”a higher level of carbs in general, by saying to myself that at 30 net it’s like 45 total, I might get sucked into counting something like 45 pure carbs (hello potato, my old friend) and that is a slippery slope.

Not sure if that makes sense to anyone else. But net carbs are a way to expand the foods while staying lower GI.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Aug-13-18, 18:51
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Use net carbs if you want more fiber in your diet.

Use total carbs if you want less fiber in your diet.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-18, 06:53
s93uv3h's Avatar
s93uv3h s93uv3h is offline
 
Plan: Atkins & IF
Stats: 000/014.5/015 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather436
So fiber is actually a carb but since it's not digested, it doesn't count??
Atkins says not to count them. Also, am reading Jacob Wilson and Ryan Lowery's The Ketogenic Bible: The Authoritative Guide to Ketosis (2017) - on net carbs:

Many people attempt to avoid carbohydrates altogether on a ketogenic diet. However, that also means avoiding fiber, which has important health benefits, especially for the gut. Dietary fibers are carbohydrates that are not broken down in the small intestine and instead make it to the large intestine, where they are broken down by bacteria. The great thing about fiber is that it has been shown to lower body fat, assist in managing diabetes, improve insulin sensitivity, decrease the risk of heart disease, elevate satiety, and foster beneficial bacteria in our guts (Slaving, 2013). Moreover, the fermentation of fiber in the gut produces short-chain fatty acids (SCFA), such as acetate, butyrate, and propionate, which are also ketogenic.

Research demonstrates that most individuals switching from a normal carbohydrate-based diet to a ketogenic diet drastically lower their fiber intake. In fact, one study found that decreasing carbohydrates from 400 to 23 grams daily also decreased fiber intake from 28 to 6 grams (Duncan et al., 2007). As a result, subjects decreased both their healthy bacteria as well as the production of healthy short-chain fatty acids. We believe it is paramount to maintain fiber intake on a ketogenic diet (by consuming green leafy vegetables and fibrous foods) and focus on reducing net carbohydrates; total carbohydrates minus fiber.

Several lines of evidence support focusing on net carbs instead of total carbs, but we will focus on just two of them. The first is that fiber, even though it is counted as a carbohydrate, should be resistant to digestion, so it does not increase blood glucose or insulin levels - and often lowers them (Slavin et al., 2013). Second, research shows that foods high in fiber could allow carbohydrates in the diet to be increased from 4-10 percent without hindering seizure control in epileptic patients (Pfeifer et al., 2005). Thus we suggest counting net carbs and including high-fiber foods in your diet. Green and cruciferous vegetables are great ways to add fiber and volume.

Resistant Starch and Butyrate

Resistant starches do exactly what their name implies: resist digestion. These types of starches have been shown to improve insulin sensitivity and reduce appetite. However, too much resistant starch can lead to bloating or GI discomfort due to the fact that it doesn't get digested. Once it's fermented by the bacteria in the gut, a short-chain fatty acid known as butyrate is produced. Butyrate is actually the preferred fuel of the cells that lline the colon, and there is a host of data showing its beneficial effects on human health and function. Finding ways to increase butyrate levels while lowering carbohydrates on a ketogenic diet can significantly improve gut bacteria and long-term success with the diet.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Aug-14-18, 10:27
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s93uv3h
Atkins says not to count them. Also, am reading Jacob Wilson and Ryan Lowery's The Ketogenic Bible: The Authoritative Guide to Ketosis (2017) - on net carbs:

Many people attempt to avoid carbohydrates altogether on a ketogenic diet. However, that also means avoiding fiber, which has important health benefits, especially for the gut. Dietary fibers are carbohydrates that are not broken down in the small intestine and instead make it to the large intestine, where they are broken down by bacteria. The great thing about fiber is that it has been shown to lower body fat, assist in managing diabetes, improve insulin sensitivity, decrease the risk of heart disease, elevate satiety, and foster beneficial bacteria in our guts (Slaving, 2013). Moreover, the fermentation of fiber in the gut produces short-chain fatty acids (SCFA), such as acetate, butyrate, and propionate, which are also ketogenic.

Research demonstrates that most individuals switching from a normal carbohydrate-based diet to a ketogenic diet drastically lower their fiber intake. In fact, one study found that decreasing carbohydrates from 400 to 23 grams daily also decreased fiber intake from 28 to 6 grams (Duncan et al., 2007). As a result, subjects decreased both their healthy bacteria as well as the production of healthy short-chain fatty acids. We believe it is paramount to maintain fiber intake on a ketogenic diet (by consuming green leafy vegetables and fibrous foods) and focus on reducing net carbohydrates; total carbohydrates minus fiber.

Several lines of evidence support focusing on net carbs instead of total carbs, but we will focus on just two of them. The first is that fiber, even though it is counted as a carbohydrate, should be resistant to digestion, so it does not increase blood glucose or insulin levels - and often lowers them (Slavin et al., 2013). Second, research shows that foods high in fiber could allow carbohydrates in the diet to be increased from 4-10 percent without hindering seizure control in epileptic patients (Pfeifer et al., 2005). Thus we suggest counting net carbs and including high-fiber foods in your diet. Green and cruciferous vegetables are great ways to add fiber and volume.

Resistant Starch and Butyrate

Resistant starches do exactly what their name implies: resist digestion. These types of starches have been shown to improve insulin sensitivity and reduce appetite. However, too much resistant starch can lead to bloating or GI discomfort due to the fact that it doesn't get digested. Once it's fermented by the bacteria in the gut, a short-chain fatty acid known as butyrate is produced. Butyrate is actually the preferred fuel of the cells that lline the colon, and there is a host of data showing its beneficial effects on human health and function. Finding ways to increase butyrate levels while lowering carbohydrates on a ketogenic diet can significantly improve gut bacteria and long-term success with the diet.


My understanding is that Atkins '72 version counts fiber, but the "New" Diet Revolution book that came later subtracts them out. I read the New version.
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