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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 06:35
JoeRS JoeRS is offline
New Member
Posts: 14
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 380/330/165 Male 5' 6
BF:
Progress: 23%
Default Vegetables

Hi folks, I'm new here so bear with me. I'm having some difficulty with the search so I apologize. I know this has probably been discussed a million times.

I'm concerned about the amount of veggies I can eat on Induction. I'm afraid I'm eating too many.
I'm following Atkins from the book "The New Atkins For A New You" by Westman.

In the book, he says on page 94 that, "This means you can eat approximately six cups of loosely packed cups of salad vegetables and up to two cups of cooked vegetables"
Is this correct? I remember years ago that I didn't eat this many veggie carbs, at least I don't think so.

I'm two weeks in on Induction. Just checking. I feel full and according to the Atkins app, my carb counts are good. I'm not losing much scale weight, but my pants are looser.

Any thoughts?
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 09:27
Middlemist Middlemist is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 124
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 148/145/130 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 17%
Default

Depends on the type of veggies, if romaine and spinach yes, it has very little net carbs, but other veggies you need to check the carbs and adjust amount according to your target carb count.
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  #3   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 13:46
JoeRS JoeRS is offline
New Member
Posts: 14
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 380/330/165 Male 5' 6
BF:
Progress: 23%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Middlemist
Depends on the type of veggies, if romaine and spinach yes, it has very little net carbs, but other veggies you need to check the carbs and adjust amount according to your target carb count.


Romaine and baby spinach are what makes up the base of my salads. I do like cucumber and green pepper. I've stayed away from tomato completely.
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  #4   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 13:57
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,629
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

I do not have Dr Westmans book, but do have several copies of the old ones authored by Dr Atkins. Over the years I heard the newer book had major differences. Maybe this is one.

Atkins is 3 cups of vegetables. 3 cups loosely packed greens; or 2 cups greens and 1 cup of allowable vegies.

There is a sticky that contains the INDUCTION rules at the top of this Atkins section .

Atkins was a proponent of eating your vegetables; and IMHO eating as many as possilbe and still attain your goals is the way to go.

Hope this helps.
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 16:12
JoeRS JoeRS is offline
New Member
Posts: 14
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 380/330/165 Male 5' 6
BF:
Progress: 23%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
I do not have Dr Westmans book, but do have several copies of the old ones authored by Dr Atkins. Over the years I heard the newer book had major differences. Maybe this is one.

Atkins is 3 cups of vegetables. 3 cups loosely packed greens; or 2 cups greens and 1 cup of allowable vegies.

There is a sticky that contains the INDUCTION rules at the top of this Atkins section .

Atkins was a proponent of eating your vegetables; and IMHO eating as many as possilbe and still attain your goals is the way to go.

Hope this helps.


Thank you! I'm going with the Induction from the Sticky. I'll have to pick up one of the old books, I couldn't find it.
I appreciate your help.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 17:11
JoeRS JoeRS is offline
New Member
Posts: 14
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 380/330/165 Male 5' 6
BF:
Progress: 23%
Default

I've noticed that if I would eat 2cups of lettuce, and one cup of cooked veggies, depending on what I choose, sometimes I might only be eating 10-12 carbs in a day. I guess less than 20 carbs on induction is fine too.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 21:24
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,824
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/196/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 43%
Default

Here's my advise.

1) get a kitchen scale and start thinking in grams of raw plant matter instead of silly things like "loosely packed"

2) use this site to calculate net or complete carbs (I started and continue to use "net" - that's up to you. Use 100g of so it makes the math easier

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list

3) make a "cheat sheet" and keep it in the kitchen of the common vegetables you eat. Here's the one I did for myself using net carbs...



4) Pick and Stick to a plan for an extended period of time, like a year.

My highest recorded weight was 370lbs at a doctors office. By stictly sticking to a plan for 2 years my body found it's way back to normal. Now I can do stuff that I, and any other 54 year old should be able to... like learning to ride little skateboard ramps and stuff - What ever you liked to do before your body got so large and unwieldy like mine did.

I wish you well!


Last edited by thud123 : Thu, Jul-19-18 at 21:30.
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Jul-19-18, 21:28
thud123's Avatar
thud123 thud123 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,824
 
Plan: ~25NC/IF
Stats: 342.2/196/000 Male 182cm
BF:
Progress: 43%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRS
I've noticed that if I would eat 2cups of lettuce, and one cup of cooked veggies, depending on what I choose, sometimes I might only be eating 10-12 carbs in a day. I guess less than 20 carbs on induction is fine too.

If you can manage less than 20 and feel good I suppose that's fine. Be prepared to change when needed. Be flexible and open to what is happening as you go.

I've heard it said, "Don't bend the truth to fit your beliefs, bend your beliefs to fit the truth"
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  #9   ^
Old Fri, Jul-20-18, 02:27
Middlemist Middlemist is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 124
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 148/145/130 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 17%
Default

Well done Thud for your success..

The cheat sheet posted proves that loosely packed 6 cups of spinach or (romain not on the list) which is like 100 grams would be 1.5 to 2 net carbs.

Although I am doing vlc at the moment, I do understand the motive behind 6 cups of loose green leaves... its the potassium.. potassium is very important for muscle function (especially the heart) and weight loss.
I am on vlc, but do supplement with potassium for the moment.
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  #10   ^
Old Fri, Jul-20-18, 03:39
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,402
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

The New Atkins 2010 book by Westman was written for the Atkins Company using 20 NET carbs, 15 of which Should be Foundation Vegetables. That is a lot of veg so many consider its rules to be healthier.
I started with that plan and followed it for about 6 months until I had an appointment at Dr Westman's own clinic at Duke. The clinic treats obese and diabetics, and so uses his clinic diet based on what Dr Atkins used around 2000 for the same patient population. That is the 3 cup vegetables and similar to the Induction rules posted at top of this forum.

Diet also in the great book Why We Get Fat: https://www.dietdoctor.com/se/wp-co...starch_diet.pdf


Both work...your choice. Dr Westman often explains it as Net Carbs is the Over The Counter treatment, while the clinic Total carb plan is the Prescription strength.

I like the 2010 edition very much, it has.good science and explanations of low carb health. A few editions after it lost the science and created all packaged food meals, now the latest Atkins edition returned to mostly Real Whole Foods. Through all editions there have been options to eat only real foods, not bars or shakes, a good plan no matter how much vegetable you decide to eat.

Last edited by JEY100 : Fri, Jul-20-18 at 03:50.
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Jul-20-18, 05:24
Middlemist Middlemist is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 124
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 148/145/130 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 17%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
That is the 3 cup vegetables and similar to the Induction rules posted at top of this forum.


Hi, good info Jay 3 cups of veg per meal or per day?? Is that cooked veggie you mean or salad greens?
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  #12   ^
Old Fri, Jul-20-18, 07:59
JoeRS JoeRS is offline
New Member
Posts: 14
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 380/330/165 Male 5' 6
BF:
Progress: 23%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thud123
Here's my advise.

1) get a kitchen scale and start thinking in grams of raw plant matter instead of silly things like "loosely packed"

2) use this site to calculate net or complete carbs (I started and continue to use "net" - that's up to you. Use 100g of so it makes the math easier

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search/list

3) make a "cheat sheet" and keep it in the kitchen of the common vegetables you eat. Here's the one I did for myself using net carbs...



4) Pick and Stick to a plan for an extended period of time, like a year.

My highest recorded weight was 370lbs at a doctors office. By stictly sticking to a plan for 2 years my body found it's way back to normal. Now I can do stuff that I, and any other 54 year old should be able to... like learning to ride little skateboard ramps and stuff - What ever you liked to do before your body got so large and unwieldy like mine did.

I wish you well!


Wow, this is fantastic. Thank you so much!
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  #13   ^
Old Fri, Jul-20-18, 08:17
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,629
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/218/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 31%
Location: Massachusetts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRS
Thank you! I'm going with the Induction from the Sticky. I'll have to pick up one of the old books, I couldn't find it.
I appreciate your help.


I found copies at used book stores. Bought every copy I could find.

Atkins designed a sysem to be easy.

I had a list like Thud proposed, and this is VERY helpful. Especially if you want to eat foods NOT on the permissable list, for variety. Knowing the counts on those will keep you in bounds of the 20 carb limit for induction, or the next level at 25 carbs....

I like the nutritional benefits of beets, so I do have these occassionally for health reasons. And I like pumpkin ---in cheesecake, a lowcarb version.

My suggestion is pick one way and live with it for a time until you learn it and understand it.

And remember your salt!!! Like a salty broth, or as I do salts straight up with a chaser--water. Or as one man suggests-- add 1/4 tsp to a bottle of water.
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  #14   ^
Old Fri, Jul-20-18, 12:00
Meme#1's Avatar
Meme#1 Meme#1 is online now
Posts: 9,219
 
Plan: Atkins DANDR
Stats: 210/183/160 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 54%
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Middlemist
Hi, good info Jay 3 cups of veg per meal or per day?? Is that cooked veggie you mean or salad greens?


Check this page
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...82&page=1&pp=15
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  #15   ^
Old Sat, Jul-21-18, 02:47
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 10,402
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Middlemist
Hi, good info Jay 3 cups of veg per meal or per day?? Is that cooked veggie you mean or salad greens?


The diet used for the clinical trial is a simplified version of the Atkins induction plan Meme linked. 2 cups or fistfuls of salad greens, 1 cup cooked veg (measured raw) per day, no nuts, no alcohol, fat only to satiety, no phases, no "ladder" etc. In the clinic, follow this diet to goal weight unless there are some personal adjustments needed due health, medication, etc. I often ate more salad greens because New Atkins had worked for me and it was my choice for medical reasons.

Here is Dr Westman's clinic diet on DietDoctor, as published in WWGF appendix:

https://www.dietdoctor.com/se/wp-co...starch_diet.pdf

Dr Westman has a dry sense of humor. He says something along the lines of when he mentions 3 cups veggies in the Introduction Class, men usually say "3 whole cups, how can I eat so many vegetables?" while women react with "only 3 cups, is that all"?

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Jul-21-18 at 03:04.
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