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  #16   ^
Old Mon, Oct-31-16, 03:42
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
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Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
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It was a lab test.

How would a finger stick at the same time correlate to an a1c?
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  #17   ^
Old Mon, Oct-31-16, 07:46
MickiSue MickiSue is offline
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Posts: 8,006
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/148.6/145 Female 5' 5"
BF:36%/28%/25%
Progress: 92%
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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The finger stick is to correlate with the BG drawn at the same time.
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  #18   ^
Old Mon, Oct-31-16, 10:26
dex's Avatar
dex dex is offline
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Posts: 877
 
Plan: NSNG
Stats: 260/164/185 Female 64"
BF:
Progress: 128%
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonwtwindo
It was a lab test.

How would a finger stick at the same time correlate to an a1c?

As MickiSue said, it's to check your glucometer against the BG reading from a blood draw. That's really the only way to know what accuracy range your meter readings fall into. Hospital glucometers are required to be within 10% accurate, and are supposed to be checked and calibrated on a schedule for compliance. The same is not true of home meters, where the variance can be up to ~20%.

If you think your meter isn't giving you believable readings because of what you saw in your lab A1C, then your options are 1) test your meter, 2) get a new meter, or 3) stop testing your BG.

I wouldn't recommend the third option if you have any type of diabetes diagnosis. But, as in all things, you do you. *shrug*
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Oct-31-16, 21:12
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickiSue
The finger stick is to correlate with the BG drawn at the same time.


Derrr. I should learn to read. Blood glucose wan't ordered, just an a1c.
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Oct-31-16, 21:16
gonwtwindo's Avatar
gonwtwindo gonwtwindo is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,671
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 164/162.6/151 Female 5'3"
BF:Sure is
Progress: 11%
Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dex
1) test your meter, 2) get a new meter, or 3) stop testing your BG.
I've gotten a new meter and new strips, and I'm diabetic. So that leaves a lab BG to test my meter against. I'll see if she will do that. Thanks.
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  #21   ^
Old Tue, Nov-01-16, 06:50
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,442
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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This is not an ad for DirectLabs, other "direct to consumer" labs may be more convenient/cheaper with coupons, etc, but the just announced November specials are a Diabetes Package with FBG, Hba1c, the liver tests like AST, and some other basic metabolic markers for $44. HBa1c on its own is $29.

November is Diabetes Awareness Month. I better not see any bake sales benefits, barely made it through Breast Cancer month without losing my mind.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Nov-01-16 at 06:58.
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  #22   ^
Old Tue, Nov-01-16, 10:01
Lesliean Lesliean is offline
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Posts: 175
 
Plan: Rosedale
Stats: 129/125/122 Female 5.5
BF:
Progress:
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Wanted to give a follow up. I dropped net carbs a bit to 35. Also added a bit more protein and coconut oil to increase fat before and during my workouts (hard 2 hours).

Also though just halved my reverse t3 by switching to almost all natural thyroid. Great article here on cellular conversion problems. https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/deiodinases/

Now blood glucose below 140 always. Fbg still 102-106 but the rest better.

I'm wondering if hypothyroidism on the cellular level, even with normal tsh, leads to a stressed body during workouts and a higher blood glucose response?
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Nov-28-16, 18:10
Lesliean Lesliean is offline
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Posts: 175
 
Plan: Rosedale
Stats: 129/125/122 Female 5.5
BF:
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Now I'm practicing IF 18/6 or 20/4. Still fbg of 109? Wtf? Rest of the time 92-112. So all times but first thing in the morning is great. Why do u think the fbg is still high?
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  #24   ^
Old Tue, Nov-29-16, 04:38
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,442
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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It's 'higher' around the time you wake for the perfectly normal reason that the body has pumped out four hormones to raise your BG from the lower fasted level when asleep to ready your body for the day. You are not diabetic so you do not have the very high BG of Dawn Phenomenon or the very low Somogyi effect, but the normal circadian pattern of hormones and BG. In Dr Fung's blunt language, "a good ol' fashioned hormonal kick in the ass"

Quote:
Just before awakening (around 4am), the body secretes higher levels of Growth Hormone, cortisol, glucagon and adrenalin. Together, these are called the counter-regulatory hormones. That is, they counter the blood sugar lowering effects of insulin, meaning that they raise blood sugars. The nocturnal surge of growth hormone is considered the primary cause of the DP.

These normal circadian hormonal increases prepare our bodies for the day ahead. That is, glucagon tells the liver to start pushing out some glucose. Adrenalin gives our bodies some energy. Growth hormone is involved in repair and new synthesis of protein. Cortisol, the stress hormone increases as a general activator. After all, we are never quite so relaxed as deep sleep. So these hormones gently get us ready to wake up. A good ol’ fashioned hormonal kick in the ass, so to speak. Hormones are secreted in a pulsatile manner peaking in the early morning hours then falling to low levels during the day.

Since these hormones all tend to raise blood sugars, we might expect that our sugars would go through the roof in the early morning. This does not actually happen.

Why? Insulin secretion also increases in the early morning to counteract the counter regulatory hormones. In other words, insulin is there to make sure blood sugars do not go too high. However, if you look closely at the blood sugar readings, there is a slight increase in the morning time.

So, in the normal, non-diabetic situation, blood sugars are not stable throughout 24 hours. The Dawn Effect happens in normal people. This is easily missed because the magnitude of the rise is very small – from 89 to 92 mg/dl. However, this effect was found in every patient studied. So, unless you are specifically looking for the DP, you are likely to miss it.

Think about it this way. Your body has the ability to store food energy as sugar (glycogen) and fat. When you eat, you store food energy. As you sleep (fasting), your body needs to release this stored energy. Around 4am or so, knowing that you will soon be waking up, your body prepares you for the upcoming day. It does this by increasing counter-regulatory hormones to release sugar into the blood. You can see that glucose production falls overnight and starts to ramp up around 4 am. In order to prevent the sugars from rising too much, insulin increases to act as a ‘brake’ on the system.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-dawn-phenomenon

I had similar slightly over 100 FBG for a few years, one view is that when eating VLC that hormone surge may overcompensate for the low BG at night. These past two years after adding IF of 24 hours or less, my FBG is more in the 90s...but it took months to see that consistently. You are already very healthy and can add the occasional IF with a 4-8 eating window to see if that brings down FBG, but please also consider what Amy Berger recently wrote about who should not fast. http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/1...ast-2.html#more
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  #25   ^
Old Tue, Nov-29-16, 17:32
Lesliean Lesliean is offline
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Posts: 175
 
Plan: Rosedale
Stats: 129/125/122 Female 5.5
BF:
Progress:
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Thank you fey. I appreciate ur encouraging words. IF is sometimes harder because I run and bike 1000 calories every morning and have a body fat of around 13%. If I eat my last meal by 3 pm and wait till after finishing my workout and eat my first meal at 9am I have an eating window of 6 hours but sometimes am very hungry because of the workout. Do u think I'll get the same results adding 240 calories of coconut oil to fuel the second part of my workout at 7? I really want ur low blood glucose numbers. Mine are usually around 105 so i do need insulin resistance rehab.

Last edited by Lesliean : Tue, Nov-29-16 at 18:23.
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  #26   ^
Old Wed, Nov-30-16, 05:51
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
Posts: 13,442
 
Plan: P:E/DDF
Stats: 225/150/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/28%/25%
Progress: 134%
Location: NC
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I do not exercise intensely and have no advice except you might try eating more and exercising less

Please read and take to heart Amy Berger's advice on who should not be fasting. Physical stress is not helping your BG, and may be impacting thyroid.
Part 1 is more to the point: http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/09/not-so-fast.html

Quote:
Based on what I see, hear, and read in the “Paleosphere,” the people who report the most trouble with fasting—the ones whose “adrenals crashed,” or whose “thyroid got killed”—are women. Usually younger women. Usually younger women who do a great deal of intense exercise. Usually younger women who do a great deal of intense exercise on insufficient calories (from whatever combination of macronutrients you like; doesn’t matter – the bottom line is, it’s just too damn little food). They also usually have full-time jobs and wake up at the crack of dawn to get in a spin class, boot camp, or CrossFit WOD, and sometimes do another one after work. These women are already in metabolic and hormonal danger. Add fasting to that mix and, yes, of course they don’t fare well. Why is this a surprise to anyone?! (*Tap, tap.* Is this thing on?!)

(Case in point: Elle Russ, author of The Paleo Thyroid Solution. According to her profile as a “success story” on Mark’s Daily Apple: “I am 5’2”, I was 110–115 lbs, 16% to 17% body fat, and before hypothyroidism hit me, I exemplified the image of health and fitness. […] My doctor tested my thyroid incorrectly by only testing my TSH. He said the TSH was within range, I did not have a thyroid problem, and I just needed to exercise more and eat less, which I thought was impossible because I had been working out two hours a day and eating 1,200 calories or less…” To be clear, Elle wrote nothing about fasting. I am simply sharing her story as an example of who should not fast, but the kind of person I regularly hear from who is doing so. And I find it inexcusable that none of the doctors she ever saw for her thyroid suggested that she EAT MORE FOOD and EXERCISE A LITTLE LESS. [Also, perhaps 110 pounds and 16% body fat maybe did not “exemplify the image of health and fitness.” And please know I mean absolutely no disrespect toward Ms. Russ. As someone who has struggled with my own thyroid issues, I think her story is an important one, and I’m sure her book will be an incredibly valuable resource for other women, whose doctors are complete morons. I am simply speculating that her thyroid troubles might have—might have—been directly related to working out 2 hours a day on 1200 calories.])

So yes, fasting is great for women. Except for the women it’s not great for. I can almost guarantee you that none of the women claiming that fasting “wrecked their adrenals” or “trashed their thyroid” were 250 pounds, type 2 diabetic, and on five prescription medications. They were probably already following a low carb or Paleo diet, highly active, type-A personalities, severely under-fueling their activity, and already stressed to the max. These people are not suitable candidates for fasting.

Last edited by JEY100 : Wed, Nov-30-16 at 06:46.
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  #27   ^
Old Wed, Nov-30-16, 08:02
Lesliean Lesliean is offline
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Posts: 175
 
Plan: Rosedale
Stats: 129/125/122 Female 5.5
BF:
Progress:
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Last week home test A1C was 5.2 and that is exactly what i'm seeing-a reading most of the time of around 105, morning fbg of 109, and peaks now LC of 112 to 129. So good post prandial and higher than normal bg most of the time and as Dr. Fung says, anytime you see higher morning bg there is insulin resistance. So still working the problem.

I'd love to hear feedback from Fey.
Leslie
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  #28   ^
Old Wed, Nov-30-16, 17:56
Lesliean Lesliean is offline
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Posts: 175
 
Plan: Rosedale
Stats: 129/125/122 Female 5.5
BF:
Progress:
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Thanks for responding. This site is my go to site all issues health related. We have more collective knowledge then anywhere else.

I think the takeaway is if I feel tired I'm doing something wrong, starving myself, or over exercising. I do have a tendency in that direction!

I am feeling great on a shorter eating window and my blood glucose is lower. Maybe for us thin people longer fasts are out of bounds or very limited.
Leslie
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  #29   ^
Old Fri, Dec-09-16, 16:02
Lesliean Lesliean is offline
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Posts: 175
 
Plan: Rosedale
Stats: 129/125/122 Female 5.5
BF:
Progress:
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Still doing if. Usually have two tbsn coconut oil in coffee after my morning run if I feel I need it. Dr Fung said in an article that he feels ok about some people using fat during a fast. Then I eat 5 hours after waking up and after burning 800-900 calories in exercise (I'm trying to reduce exercise). I reduced protein to 100 grams increasing fat. I keep my eating window to 2-8 hours switching it up.

And go figure-my blood glucose is down to 91-117. It really differs but no more 176 and I credit the fasting!

For people of low weight maybe intermittent fasting to reset insulin but using more flexibility, shorter times, and fat?
Leslie
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  #30   ^
Old Wed, Dec-14-16, 10:28
Lesliean Lesliean is offline
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Posts: 175
 
Plan: Rosedale
Stats: 129/125/122 Female 5.5
BF:
Progress:
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Blood glucose now never over 126 and that is usually while fasting and after i exercise. When i break the fast blood glucose drops to 80-100. Fasting in the morning though still 103-110. How long is it going to take to come down or is it an effect of low carb eating?
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