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  #31   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 02:55
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Good Morning, Ladies.

Stacy, hope you are feeling better. Sorry I missed your post yesterday.

Diane, I'm sorry you've had such rough health challenges. I hope your movement continues to become easier.

Have you looked at the afibbers site? They have a nice recipe for magnesium water and some other good info. I have found magnesium, CoQ10, and the carnitines very helpful. Asataxanthin, too. Does caffeine have adverse effects on you?

Your PFC grams and ratios looks splendid to me. Nice and calm. Do you eat tiny meals, evenly spaced? If not, how do you portion your amounts to have things stay calm and nice?

Sorry for so many questions. It's not too often that someone with similar challanges and the same WOE comes along.

It's reassuring to have another strict keto-er here. I've felt like "the odd man out", sometimes, as a strict keto-er on the Low-Carb forums.

Hope your day is starting really nicely.

Last edited by SilverEm : Wed, Jun-17-15 at 04:34.
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  #32   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 04:54
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
Default

A bit of general "stuff", in case it helps someone:

I have found this page with "hidden carb" amounts very useful.

For easy tracking, I use a sort of "ballpark" method:

1 oz. of meat or fish at 6 - 7g/PRO
1 oz. cooked greens or herbs at 1 g/CHO. Though I tend more to use 1 g/CHO for each spoonful of herbs or greens.

Egg yolks at 3g/PRO: 3g/FAT: .5g/CHO (I usually toss the whites, but they have 3g/PRO.)

On supplements, most aren't listed, so I guess on the high side, to make sure I count the carbs, and the fats in CLO, flaxseed oil, Vit. E, EPO.

Best wishes to all for a lovely start today.
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  #33   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 05:58
aryn64 aryn64 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 27
 
Plan: Atkins/Paleo modified
Stats: 230/199/155 Female 5ft-6inchs
BF:
Progress: 41%
Default meat and eggs

I'm trying to wean myself to meat and egg diet too. Is it ok to have mayo with your tuna? I really can't choke the stuff down without some oil As far as eating too much protein, I know I personally can not eat too much red meat as I will develop gout, however, I had kidney problems as a child. I think with healthy kidneys, they can take the load, but not too much red meat. (however I'm not a doctor or scientist).

Last edited by aryn64 : Wed, Jun-17-15 at 14:51.
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  #34   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 14:19
OtherCher2's Avatar
OtherCher2 OtherCher2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 850
 
Plan: LCHF
Stats: 215/158.6/145 Female 5'6"
BF:Follows Behind Me!
Progress: 81%
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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Anyone else eating ONLY:

Meat (muscle meat and offal, bones, marrow, broth, gelatin)
Fish (including some bones and skin)
Eggs
Butter, Cream
Coffee/Tea, and
Herbs/Salt

as a LifeTime Way of Eating?


THIS PRETTY MUCH SUMS UP MY FOOD MENU! NEVER FELT BETTER!
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  #35   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 16:22
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Hello, Aryn. I wish you successful experimenting and finding the answers that fit you perfectly.

Hello, OtherCher2. I'm glad this WOE agrees with you. I like the quote in your signature line.
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  #36   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 17:15
Iceberg Iceberg is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 279
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 216/195/150 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: ID
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEm
Good Morning, Ladies.

Diane, I'm sorry you've had such rough health challenges. I hope your movement continues to become easier.

Have you looked at the afibbers site? They have a nice recipe for magnesium water and some other good info. I have found magnesium, CoQ10, and the carnitines very helpful. Asataxanthin, too. Does caffeine have adverse effects on you?

Your PFC grams and ratios looks splendid to me. Nice and calm. Do you eat tiny meals, evenly spaced? If not, how do you portion your amounts to have things stay calm and nice?

Sorry for so many questions. It's not too often that someone with similar challanges and the same WOE comes along.

It's reassuring to have another strict keto-er here. I've felt like "the odd man out", sometimes, as a strict keto-er on the Low-Carb forums.


SilverEm,

Yes, when my issue began I did find the afibbers site. I think I’ve even ordered some supplements they recommended, but once I started keto, things seemed better and I never took them. Since my autoimmune stuff started I’m really sensitive to medications and I’m very cautious about taking anything. I do have to take the synthroid as I have no functioning thyroid and have begged for years to try the Armor which is T1, T2 and T3. I don’t convert T4 to T3 well and suffer from osteoporosis as well which I attribute mostly to the synthroid for 34 yrs. No doctor will agree to adding T3 even….so I suffer with symptoms and worry about what damage it’s causing, like bone loss, heart issues, etc.

On the weekends I do IF eating a late breakfast (bacon, eggs, bullet proof coffee and a bit of avocado) and then dinner. Workdays for breakfast, 6AM, I make a smoothie with coconut cream, almond milk, HWC, spinach or kale, a bit of sea salt and ice; Lunch is usually 2 ozs of protein and maybe some avocado stuff; Dinner is 3 to 3.5 ozs protein, a bulletproof coffee (decaf) and a veggie with kerrygold butter. Two hrs after I eat my dinner I recheck my ketones and glucose. I don’t eat anything after 5:30 PM. I log all my food choices in spark people for tracking and monitoring my macros.

Caffeine definitely affects my heart and I avoid it as much as possible.

I don’t’ mind the questions as I’ve also been looking for others that follow the ketogenic WOE. I’ve been researching the benefits of keto and snagging research where I can find it. I also find it interesting that a restricted calorie KD is very beneficial for cancer patients. I have quite a few books on keto as I’m always searching for the benefits.
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  #37   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 17:21
Iceberg Iceberg is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 279
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 216/195/150 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: ID
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aryn64
I'm trying to wean myself to meat and egg diet too. Is it ok to have mayo with your tuna? I really can't choke the stuff down without some oil As far as eating too much protein, I know I personally can not eat too much red meat as I will develop gout, however, I had kidney problems as a child. I think with healthy kidneys, they can take the load, but not too much red meat. (however I'm not a doctor or scientist).


I don't think I could stay on a zero carb diet, i.e., meat only. Since excess protein converts to glucose and stores as fat, I've decided for me to stick with eating some veggies as well. Fat I think is also important. I hope someone else can answer your question about the meat only diet.

As for mayo, I don't eat commercial mayo. It contains soy and I avoid that stuff. Also some sugar I think. I've made a mayoish like thing that I've used with tuna, etc. I take a bit of extra virgin olive oil, add a bit of softened cream cheese, a bit of lemon juice and mess with it until I like the taste and the consistency. I don't care for tuna by itself.
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  #38   ^
Old Wed, Jun-17-15, 17:26
Iceberg Iceberg is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 279
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 216/195/150 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: ID
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherCher2
Anyone else eating ONLY:

Meat (muscle meat and offal, bones, marrow, broth, gelatin)
Fish (including some bones and skin)
Eggs
Butter, Cream
Coffee/Tea, and
Herbs/Salt

as a LifeTime Way of Eating?


Glad that's working for you. I tried something similar a long time ago and just couldn't give up my veggies. I eat broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, green beans, a bit of red pepper, cucumbers, mushrooms, a bit of tomatoes and I might be forgetting something.

I do eat real butter, heavy whipping cream, almond milk, coconut milk, coconut cream, coconut butter, shredded coconut, eggs, fish, beef, chicken, fish, shrimp, decaf coffee, some herbs/sea salt.
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  #39   ^
Old Thu, Jun-18-15, 01:55
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Diane, thank you for your kind and gracious answers.

I, too, think limiting calories is most helpful. It seems to be a key part of the biochemical and neurological benefits of the KD.

Do you happen to have Epilepsy and the Ketogenic Diet, edited by Strafstrom and Rho? Here is an excerpt from one of the reviews:

For this reader the high point of the book started with the first chapter in Part III and continued right to the end of the book. Biochemical effects of the ketogenic diet are examined, citing scientific studies. Possible explanations for the anti-seizure/anti-epileptic effect of the ketogenic diet are set forth; cerebral energy metabolism, effects on amino acids, molecular regulation, neuronal excitability, effects of caloric restriction, the role of norepinephrine, galanin and neuropeptide Y, etc. Some surprising results are noted. For example, in the chapter on caloric restriction it is suggested that high glucose levels may exacerbate human epilepsies. On a superficial level this is just the opposite of what medical students are taught; i.e., hypoglycemia (not hyperglycemia) causes seizures, which it can.

I have read a couple of places about migraines being triggered by hypoglycemia in the brain, related to GLUT1, which I have begun to read about, also that they are triggered by the brain being too alkaline about 48 hours before the migraine. Found an abstract of a study yesterday that it had been known since 1920 that migraines were the same kind of malfunction in the brain as epileptic seizures. The papers I've found which illuminate this early research are all pay-per-view or paid subscriptions, so am still looking for papers which are relevant, and can be read without charge.

I, too, abstain from eating late in the day. I usually don't eat after about 3:30, 4 at the latest.

Have you looked at iodine? There is a good deal of sound research and evidence on its helping many things. Perhaps Dr. Donald Miller's writings would serve as a starting point. Here is a link to some of those papers.

Thanks again for taking time to post such helpful answers.

Last edited by SilverEm : Thu, Jun-18-15 at 02:14.
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  #40   ^
Old Thu, Jun-18-15, 02:09
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Thinking about the things which trigger migraines, here is part of a post from the Coping With Epilepsy forum:


One of my seizures occurred during nerve conduction study during the second phase of an EMG. They introduced a small amount of voltage into my leg, and I had a generalized seizure, chest pain included. The test was terminated. No doctor made the connection, or understood that the voltage introduced into my body gave me a seizure. That part of the test was buried. The first phase of the test demonstrated consistent electrical discharges from my muscles (at rest), consistent with Myotonic Dystrophy Type 2.

A total of five doctors have dismissed my seizures as psychosomatic or psychogenic, which is inconsistent with logic since the precursors or triggers were always biologically activating, and always deal with electricity, or radio waves. Many muscular dystrophy patients have seizures, and I am not aware of a single doctor who has made the connection between electrical abnormalities in the body leading to seizures. Considering that the voltage of a single muscle cell is -60 millivolts, and that exltracellular fluid has a higher polarity, and that the contraction of muscles involves chemical depolarization and repolarization of one muscle cell, through appropriate ion channels, it is apparent to me that doctors are still very ignorant about seizures.

Furthermore, it is damaging spiritually and psychologically to individuals which can leave permanent scars, if not wounds. For thousands of years doctors have made misdiagnosis, and only when the science is clearly understood is the correct diagnosis made. It would be better for doctors to say, "I don't know." Seizures obey the laws of physics, Ohm's law, and chemistry. Much can be learned about a seizure by studying an integrated circuit board.

To summarize, neurologists, and epileptologists label seizures as psychosomatic or psychogenic largely because they don't understand the science behind seizures fully. In reading Dr. Devinsky Alternative Therapies for Epilepsy book, it became apparent that he did not understand the science behind many alternative therapies, and subsequently dismissed them.


I find out a great deal about what triggers migraines, how to know one is coming on, what to expect, what to do, etc., from the epilepsy sites and forums.

Hope this helps someone else.
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  #41   ^
Old Mon, Jul-06-15, 20:20
Jamackarch's Avatar
Jamackarch Jamackarch is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,393
 
Plan: hflc
Stats: 166/162/125 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 10%
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEm
...I toss egg whites most of the time, and would like to find someone who wants fresh whites and would trade. More egg yolks would be splendid! Egg yolks and cream cheese are one of my favorites.

Hi Silver,

I was wondering why you toss the white? Lately, I have been turned off by the white myself. I LOVELOVELOVE the yolks!

Curious as to your reasoning... for me, I am really really REALLY trying to eat ONLY foods that make my body feel good after eating.

I am still honing my list... it's basically your list plus a few plants.
-- I can't figure out if I should keep berries, arugula, celery, radish, cucumber and cabbage, or dump 'em.

Those are about the only plants I eat these days...

anyway, that's cool about the eggs.

For me, I save the whites in a tupperware for DD and DH, they like to bake things together- especially meringues. All whites.

Have a lovely evening!

Jammie
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  #42   ^
Old Tue, Jul-07-15, 01:06
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Hi, Jammie. It's nice you have folks to whom you can give the whites. I toss them due to food intolerances/allergies. I have a neighbor who cooks his and feeds them to his dogs.

I use plants as condiments. I know what you mean about that odd ambivalence about them.

If you are wondering what reactions you might have to different plants, the FailSafe Diet protocol is one way to find out how your body reacts to different foods. Here is a blog which explains the FailSafe Elimination Diet. That underlined phrase is a link.

All the best to you.
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  #43   ^
Old Fri, Jul-10-15, 03:11
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Another lovely day of:

Tea and EFAs and butterfats, with a bit of Celtic sea salt

Chicken liver braised in unsalted Kerrygold and green onions
(The unsalted Kerrygold has a higher fat content.)
A few herbs.

Fish and egg yolks
Tea gelatin and homemade yoghurt

Fish and yolks.
Vinegar-&-sea salt gelatin and homemade yoghurt and/or some cream cheese

HWC rennet custard made w/ hwc, Junket rennet, and vanilla extract.

Perhaps some seltzer water w/ hwc and vanilla extract.

Water, supplements, exercise, rest, work, prayers, chores, sunshine.

Last edited by SilverEm : Fri, Jul-10-15 at 03:18.
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  #44   ^
Old Wed, Jul-22-15, 02:03
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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Update on the FailSafe Elimination Diet blog. Emma Davies has deleted the blog. It can be read through the Wayback Machine.

Sue Dengate, the author of the FailSafe books, has a website on Food Intolerance. Here is the link. There is a link to Anne Swain's original paper on The Role of Salicylates in Food Intolerance there.

The Royal Prince Albert Hospital Allergy Unit, in Sydney, which use the FailSafe Elimination Diet, have some good information on allergies and food intolerances.. Here is the link to their site

This next link is to a site on Enzymes, Digestion, Nutrition, and how enzymes can help various serious ailments. It shows the page on Enzymes and Diet Strategies. It doesn't look as though the site has been kept current, but there is some useful information there.

This paper at PubMed addresses doing elimination diets for FODMAPs and Food Intolerances , by Barrett and Gibson.

It was through following such elimination testing protocols that I arrived at this WOE.

Last edited by SilverEm : Wed, Jul-22-15 at 02:10.
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  #45   ^
Old Wed, Jul-22-15, 02:22
SilverEm SilverEm is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,024
 
Plan: VLC Pastoral
Stats: 137/136/136 Female 67"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Maintenance since 2001
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One of the key pages of information from the FailSafe Elimination Diet blog:

Minimising Amine Formation in Meat, Dairy and Eggs


Amines tend to have very slow, subtle build-up reactions in people. It is rare that people notice specific amine reactions unles they have eaten foods that contain very high amounts (like some varieties of red wine, live beer, very strong cheeses, or old meat served at questionable restaurants).

It is possible to apparently do the FailSafe diet for months without ever noticing an amine reaction, because you are still eating too many amines in unsafe meat. This means that your symptoms will remain chronic and you may dismiss food chemical intolerance as a cause of your problems because you are unable to see the connection. Before you dismiss food chemical intolerance as a cause of your symptoms, please ensure you have followed the guidelines below.




The Royal Prince Alfred Hospital Allergy Unit advise that:

Meat should be less than two weeks from slaughter when purchased
Meat should not be stored frozen for more than one month
Depending on your sensitivity level you may have to tighten up these rules further. Some individuals do not tolerate meat that is more than a few days old.

What you should avoid:

Vacuum packed meat of any kind is very high in amines and is likely to be several months old. It is standard practice in supermarkets in the UK, Australia and the US to “wet age” meat in vacuum packs for around three months before putting it on sale.

Meat sold as “fresh” in supermarket counters has usually been vacuum packed prior to sale and is likely to be of a similar age to vacuum packed meat.

Pork naturally contains amines and must be avoided. Even organic pork.
All oily/dark flesh fish like tuna and salmon contain amines, so stick to white fish only.

Supermarket chicken can be very variable in quality is often around ten days old prior to sale, having been stored and transported for many miles. Cheap chicken may contain injected flavour enhancers.

Beef from butcher’s shops is usually hung prior to sale and is likely to be around three weeks old. “Quality” butchers often hang meat for around six weeks prior to sale. This is too old for FailSafers.

What you should do:

Find a beef supplier you can trust who will give you an accurate slaughter date, and perhaps butcher to order for you. Veal may be a safer option as it does not require hanging to tenderise (note: only white veal is cruel, veal per se is just a young animal). Medium quality butchers will often sell beef without hanging it for very long. The meat will be tougher, but much fresher. Very tough meat can be stewed, roasted and minced.

Lamb is much safer than beef as it is not usually hung for more than a week or two before sale.

Chicken is usually safe but do not eat the skin, as it contains amines. Whole chickens are the best option as they are not normally vacuum packed. Avoid cheap chickens as they are often brined and injected with flavour enhancers. Organic chickens are the safest in this respect. Do not eat ground/minced chicken as the mince usually contains the skin. If you want to make a soup or stock, remove the skin from the chicken carcass first.

White fish should be bought from fresh fish counters only. The eyes of the fish should not be cloudy, and the fish should be resting on ice.

Buy from the back of the fridge. Ask for fish that is nearest to the ice or for cuts of meat that have to be butchered to order in the back of the shop. Select dairy products from the back of the fridge where the temperature is coldest.

Never eat vacuum packed meat or meat from a supermarket.

This rule cannot be emphasised enough. Most people make this mistake.

No vacuum packed meat or supermarket meat is failsafe. Vacuum packing superficially preserves meat by preventing oxidation. This means that the meat stays red and does not turn brown. However, vacuum packing does not prevent amine formation and can even enhance it. This means that the meat appears to be fresher than it actually is. Most vacuum packed meat, especially supermarket meat, has been “wet aged” to increase tenderness and flavour. This means it has been refrigerated in vacuum packs for around three months before sale. This is not an exaggeration. Virtually all supermarkets employ this technique, even apparently fresh meat that is sat open on display in refrigerated supermarket counters has usually been wet aged in vacuum packs prior to being butchered. When you buy meat, try to find out the slaughter date. You may be surprised. Chronic symptoms will not clear up on a diet that contains old meat.

Do find a good supplier with a fast turnover.

Try to find a local butcher or a farm shop that you trust where you can find out how old the meat is before it is sold. Vacuum packed meat from a farm shop is not safe! Check the temperature of the display counters where the meat is stored. Is the meat red or brown? Browning indicates the meat has been on display for a while. Try to find somewhere that sells meat that is only a few days old and butchered to demand. Buy on a busy day like a Saturday when the turnover of meat is the fastest, or find out the weekly slaughter date and visit as soon as the new meat has been put out to buy. Buy around lunch time after the previous night’s meat has been sold from the counter, and before the new meat on display gets too warm. Amines accumulate on the surface of the meat where there is bacterial contamination, so it also helps if the meat is butchered to order.

Learn to trust your sense of taste

Once you have found a good supplier, you will learn to tell whether the meat you are eating is fresh or not: fresh meat tastes much less “meaty” and strong in flavour. It does not smell strong. If the beef is from a mature animal, it will be tougher. This can be compensated for by mincing, stewing, roasting, or selecting very thin cuts like minute steak.

Use sensible storage and handling techniques

When you get your meat home from the butcher’s, divide it into individual portions and freeze it immediately. Do not store your meat in the fridge. When you are ready to eat the meat, thaw it out fast in hot water just before your meal. Steaks and chops thaw in around ten minutes. Do not store meat in the refrigerator for more than a day. Cooked meat does degrade very quickly, never leave cooked meat in the fridge. If you roast a joint, do not store leftovers in the fridge! Let it cool down for an hour and then freeze it again in portions until you want to eat it.

If in doubt, don’t.

Amines accumulate on the surface of the meat where there is bacterial contamination. It may be worth rinsing meat prior to cooking. If you have some leftovers in the fridge, don’t eat them. Give them to a less sensitive family member or feed them to the family dog! If you have no other option, try cutting off the surface of a cold roast to see if you tolerate the interior.

Stuck for a safe source?

If you can’t find good sources of red meat, stick to eggs, chicken and fish for a while to see if it makes a difference. Buy quality chicken that hasn’t been vaccuum packed.

Soups, broths and stocks

Do not use leftover bones that have been waiting in the fridge. If you are using a chicken carcass, begin your stock as soon as you have finished roasting/eating your dinner. Only cook the stock for a couple of hours. When it is ready, cool it down very quickly by pouring it into a suitable container and setting it in a sink of cold water. Freeze it in appropriate portions or eat it the same day.

Eggs?

Eggs are usually safe and keep for several weeks, but do store them in the fridge. Raw eggs contain enzyme inhibitors which are designed to preserve them from bacterial contamination and decay. Once you have made eggs into a food like a quiche, custard, or mayonnaise, you must treat that food like any other protein food and eat it immediately or freeze it.

Dairy?

Stick to fresh milk, cream (chosing from the back of the refrigerator in the store), and minimal amounts of yoghurt and cottage cheese until you are aware of your tolerance level. Throw away dairy products that have been open for more than three days. Avoid “probiotic” yoghurts and fermented/kefir drinks at all costs! Unlike traditional yoghurt cultures, probiotic cultures almost always contain bacteria that produce amines. These can cause nasty delayed reactions, particularly if they survive into the intestinal tract and begin to break down food there. In the UK, safe (non-probiotic) brands of yoghurt include Woodland’s live sheep’s milk yoghurt and Total Greek yoghurt.

All of these things really do make a huge difference – it’s worth doing them!
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