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  #16   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-15, 12:27
deirdra's Avatar
deirdra deirdra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,963
 
Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 130%
Location: Alberta
Default

xStarlitex, Carbs are cheap if cooked at home, but the mark-up in fast-food joints on campus, where the commuter students and others eat, is horrendous. The coffee and cooked foods cost up to 6 times what they would cost to make at home. And if you are going to prepare foods at home, it is much cheaper to make healthy real foods rather than eat fastfood crap.
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  #17   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-15, 12:32
teresaw's Avatar
teresaw teresaw is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,907
 
Plan: LC and PH now and then.
Stats: 176.5/153/140 Female 60 ins
BF:
Progress: 64%
Location: Sardinia, Italy
Default

Quote.." You can't outrun a bad diet ".....

I read the whole article on BBC news and that's the line that caught me. Very interesting....
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  #18   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-15, 12:51
SnoopyT443 SnoopyT443 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 94
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 190/179.5/172 Male 70.5 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Default The Experts Respond

A dozen "experts" voice their opinions. Some positive but much of it negative. http://www.sciencemediacentre.co.nz...xpert-reaction/

A few samples:

“By showing that you can’t outrun a bad diet, this research flies in the face of food giants such as Coca Cola who are positioning themselves as part of the solution,

“This paper is not based on new research. It is an opinion piece published in a lowly journal. The authors are renowned for their unconventional views.

“The paper claims that a recent study found that every excess 150g of sugar is associated with an eleven-fold increase in the prevalence of diabetes. The study actually found that every excess 150g of sugar is associated with a 1.1 per cent increase in the prevalence of diabetes.

“It is a complete myth that sugar and carbohydrate alone are solely responsible for obesity.

"the authors fail to note that weight loss programmes which combine diet and physical activity are the most successful route to weight loss in both the short (3-6 months) and medium term (12 months).
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  #19   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-15, 13:09
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,363
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

The issue with juice is that the sugar is concentrated. You're not eating the sugar out of one orange, you're getting it from a whole bunch of them. Sucrose is sucrose, whether it comes directly from an orange or from sugar cane. It is the same disaccharide.
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  #20   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-15, 14:36
inflammabl's Avatar
inflammabl inflammabl is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,054
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 296/220/205 Male 71 inches
BF:25%?
Progress: 84%
Location: GSP and FLL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xStarlitex
An orange is a healthy food with vit C and nutrients and fiber. A whole orange is high in carbs coming in at 12 net carbs but it provides nutrients and fiber so the orange is better than sugar which is processed from sugar cane and has zero nutritional value. Oranges might trigger people who are carb sensitive but you could have 1 orange and be under your carb intake for the day even at 20 g carbs a day. One teaspoon of sugar has less calories and no nutrient value. It is an empty food. There is no benefit of eating sugar. None whatsoever. The orange has benefit. And cranberries are healthy as well until you add the sugar. But as for juices, I was not speaking of juices. Juices, I personally believe, are generally a poor choice as they generally have additives and sugar is often among them. So I personally think you are better off having neither of the options you presented but having a whole orange or a handful of cranberries but it also depends for you personally if they are items you are sensitive to. The average person may not be. Most natural foods aren't a problem for most people until they become the bulk of their diet where the diet is high carbs. They've also begun to measure how much sugar is released into the body upon eating the food. I can't for the life of me remember what it's called but some foods are high and others are mid range and others are low. The low are ones that are considered safe and healthy and the high and even moderate ones are a bit riskier. I think it's slow release carbs they are looking at but I can't remember the name of the diet.

While LC is a healthy way to live it's not the only way to live and people can eat more than low carbs as long as they aren't in high carbs and do just fine. Naturally occurring sugar isn't a problem for most people. A cup of papaya or an orange isn't going to be an issue for many but for those who are more sensitive to it or who have weight gain issues it might present an issue. But again, I'm talking whole foods and not juices which are two entirely different things. An orange is a healthy food that happens to be higher in carbs but still it is a healthy food. The juice is a different story.


I'll be the first to defend some value judgements on food, especially when that food is made by someone with love in their heart. But..... it is a value judgement. There is nothing about hand making food that makes it scientifically better nor is there anything about processing food that makes it objectively worse.

Moreover "Sucrose is sucrose" is exactly correct. Sucrose is a precise scientific term that denotes a chemical with specific properties. It's source, sugar cane, orange juice or even maple syrup, doesn't matter.

I'd much rather have 4g of sucrose from a processed mix of sugar and cranberry juice than 10g of sucrose from 100% natural hand made orange juice. Unless that orange juice was made with love. Then I'll have some.
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  #21   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-15, 15:03
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,370
 
Plan: Paleoish
Stats: 225/170/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 110%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Experts are those who are noted for agreeing with the existing consensus. They never are innovators.
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  #22   ^
Old Fri, Apr-24-15, 15:19
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,456
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
The issue with juice is that the sugar is concentrated. You're not eating the sugar out of one orange, you're getting it from a whole bunch of them. Sucrose is sucrose, whether it comes directly from an orange or from sugar cane. It is the same disaccharide.


The fruit itself doesn't really seem to work for me vs. fruit. I'm the sort who will eat seven or eight apples or oranges or bananas.
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  #23   ^
Old Mon, Apr-27-15, 08:59
keith v's Avatar
keith v keith v is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 730
 
Plan: Wheat belly
Stats: 235/220/200 Male 6 feet 2 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA Earth
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deirdra
xStarlitex, Carbs are cheap if cooked at home, but the mark-up in fast-food joints on campus, where the commuter students and others eat, is horrendous. The coffee and cooked foods cost up to 6 times what they would cost to make at home. And if you are going to prepare foods at home, it is much cheaper to make healthy real foods rather than eat fastfood crap.


My Wife can't resist a bargain...
She just bought "Macaroni and Cheese" for$0.10 EACH.

She scowled when I said, "where's the food" ?
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  #24   ^
Old Mon, Apr-27-15, 09:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 13,456
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
Default

Quote:
“The paper claims that a recent study found that every excess 150g of sugar is associated with an eleven-fold increase in the prevalence of diabetes. The study actually found that every excess 150g of sugar is associated with a 1.1 per cent increase in the prevalence of diabetes.


Took me a while to figure this out--how does 1.1 percent become 11-fold? Here it is from the source;

Quote:
Table 1 presents the results of the cross-national model from 2000 to 2010. Each 150 kilocalorie/person/day increase in total calorie availability related to a 0.1% rise in diabetes prevalence (not significant), whereas a 150 kilocalories/person/day rise in sugar availability (one 12 oz. can of soft drink) was associated with a 1.1% rise in diabetes prevalence (95% CI: 0.48–1.7%; p<0.001) after all control variables were incorporated into the model.


Increasing non-sugar calories associated with a 0.1 percent increase in diabetes, where increasing sugar calories the same amount associated with a 1.1 percent increase in diabetes. 0.1 times 11 equals 1.1. So technically true, but I'm a little underwhelmed.


And this from the Phinney, Noakes, Malhotra editorial;

Quote:
A large econometric analysis of worldwide sugar availability, revealed that for every excess 150 calories of sugar (say, one can of cola), there was an 11-fold increase in the prevalence of type 2 diabetes, in comparison to an identical 150 calories obtained from fat or protein.


A little muddy, but I think they mean to say not that diabetes prevalence goes up 11 times with each 150 calories of sugar, but that it goes up eleven times what it would if the 150 calories were from fat or protein (even this might be a bit wrong and misleading, because the original paper said calories, so maybe they should be saying fat, protein, and carbohydrate.

I wish I was shocked that all of this was beyond the vigilance/reading comprehension of a "journalist." Or that such easily misunderstood and misleading phrasing could get past peer review.

Phinney and friends editorial;
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2...015-094911.full

11 fold diabetes source;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584048/
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  #25   ^
Old Mon, Apr-27-15, 09:44
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,440
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

A "bad diet" needs to be defined before you can run from it. Those 'experts' are mostly still hung up on the calorie in out dogma.
And:
Quote:
studies directly comparing the effects of sugars and fats on satiety find there is little difference between the two. Protein is more satiating than both
Never tried the Atkins "Fat Fast" eh?
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  #26   ^
Old Fri, May-01-15, 07:28
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,102
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

The editorial has been pulled due to an expression of concern!

http://www.dietdoctor.com/sugar-fig...r-gets-censored
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  #27   ^
Old Fri, May-01-15, 14:44
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
Default

Reading through the "rapid responses" from Dr. Colin Walsh (except for the one citing Campbell) and replies to him, do you think his critiques were adequately addressed? The technical level of that back-and-forth went over my head.

Last edited by aj_cohn : Fri, May-01-15 at 14:58.
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  #28   ^
Old Fri, May-01-15, 14:58
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
Default

In my own experience, my 5x/week exercise routines (weightlifting, stability ball core work, cardio), enabled me to (a) lose my most recent 13 lbs and 5% BF after a 2-mo. stall, (b) vastly improve my glucose regulation mechanisms, so that I don't crave the crap that I did earlier in my weight loss (months 3–7), and (c) greatly reduce my appetite, so that I fill up quickly.
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  #29   ^
Old Fri, May-01-15, 19:02
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Posts: 11,416
 
Plan: Epi-Paleo/IF
Stats: 220/140/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 114%
Location: USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_cohn
In my own experience, my 5x/week exercise routines (weightlifting, stability ball core work, cardio), enabled me to (a) lose my most recent 13 lbs and 5% BF after a 2-mo. stall, (b) vastly improve my glucose regulation mechanisms, so that I don't crave the crap that I did earlier in my weight loss (months 3–7), and (c) greatly reduce my appetite, so that I fill up quickly.


Way to work it!
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, May-07-15, 06:14
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,102
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

The Article is STILL "Temporarily Removed Due to an Expression of Concern."

Re-checked after reading Dr. Tim Noakes' comment on this excellent new TedxTalk. He wrote:

Brave brave woman telling the truth. Congratulations Sarah. Let's hope millions around the world view this brilliant talk

Title is Reversing Type 2 Diabetes Starts with Ignoring the Guidelines but it is not just about diabetes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da1...eature=youtu.be

Can a person be "cured" of Type 2 Diabetes? (and Insulin Resistance) Dr. Sarah Hallberg provides compelling evidence that it can, and the solution is simpler than you might think.

Dr. Sarah Hallberg is the Medical Director of the Medically Supervised Weight Loss Program at IU Health Arnett, a program she created. She is board certified in both obesity medicine and internal medicine and has a Master’s Degree in Exercise Physiology. She has recently created what is only the second non-surgical weight loss rotation in the country for medical students. Her program has consistently exceeded national benchmarks for weight loss, and has been highly successful in reversing diabetes and other metabolic diseases. Dr. Hallberg is also the co-author of www.fitteru.us, a blog about health and wellness.
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