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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 11:58
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,211
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default Dr Jason Fung. Intensive Dietary Management

This thread is to introduce a newer LC doctor and his fasting program to the diabetes forum. If interested, you can watch his lectures, read his blog and patient guidelines and make your own decisions about the information he shares. Suggest having your doctor’s OK that fasting would be a safe protocol for you with your history of blood sugar regulation.

Dr. Jason Fung is a Toronto-based kidney specialist. Never heard of him until this post on CalorieGate: http://www.caloriegate.com/calories...odel-of-obesity. He recently started a separate website for an Intensive Dietary Management program, primarily to “cure diabetes naturally” http://intensivedietarymanagement.com/blog/

Summarizing about 20 hours of lectures in a nutshell; he believes only focussing on BG management misses the more critical insulin management. He analyses the areas where LC fails to address both, including the more insulinotropic foods that may raise insulin though not BG. He’s all about lowering the insulin response, best done with alternate day fasting.

The IDM program’s approach to reduce insulin levels is:
-Fasting
-Reduce Refined Carbohydrates
-Eat high fat
-Fiber
-Vinegar
-Spices and herbs, e.g. cinnamon, tumeric,etc.


Under the lecture tab on his website, the Diabetes section has an introduction for what appears to be prospective patients, “How to Reverse Diabetes Naturally”. The lecture on Insulin Toxicity appeared to be for doctors, was taped at an annoying lunch with loud sounds of dishes, and heavy with nerdy studies.

Of the Obesity Lecture series, Part 3, about 45 minutes in, has the studies used on the Insulin Index of foods. Part 4, The Fast Solution starts off with general info, about 45 minutes in is more about Fasting. Part 5 about Diet & Disease was all good. The first third about changes in traditional diets most of us have heard before, then more interesting studies on Insulin levels specifically and disease. Or you could watch them all and then consider the two Fasting Protocol details in the Resource information under the Patient Tab.

After being LC almost four years, I likely have Physiological Insulin Resistance now, but fasting has begun to bring BG down. It may be quite different for someone with diabetes so consider your own situation. My LCHF diet has only changed in that I am eating more fiber (bigger salads, large servings of carrots and broccoli), absolutely no snacking between meals any day, no sweeteners, not even a few drops of stevia on fasting day, added 1T of ACV before dinner, and fast the alternate day 24 hour protocol (dinner to dinner). One fasting tip is not to tell others and by doing the 24 hour fast dinner to dinner, my DH even hasn’t noticed. Dr Fung is right in that it is not that hard, and there are some extras allowed like 1T CO.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Jul-13-14 at 11:24.
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 12:13
Mama Sebo's Avatar
Mama Sebo Mama Sebo is offline
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Plan: lc, highish fat,
Stats: 224/148/124 Female 64 inches
BF:44%/29%/20%
Progress: 76%
Location: Gaborone, Botswana
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Thanks for this Janet, I had seen ads for this, but my first quick glance found insulin toxicity and a lot of other buzzwords, and I thought it was just so much ~#)(+~. With your synopsis I'll take a closer look.
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 13:57
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
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Thanks, Janet. I especially appreciate your taking the time to note how you have implemented it. I was already thinking about how to handle situations where you were expected to eat. Just don't tell them….great idea! I'll be listening to this this afternoon.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 14:10
Turtle2003's Avatar
Turtle2003 Turtle2003 is offline
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Posts: 1,449
 
Plan: Atkins, Newcastle
Stats: 260/221.8/165 Female 5'3"
BF:Highest weight 260
Progress: 40%
Location: Northern California
Default

Thanks for posting this thread, Janet. I'm going to dig right in to these videos.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 16:34
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,211
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

He makes the point that with fasting you can switch around the days according to your social schedule or a big event. It is only three days a week and you get dinner every day, unless you opt for the variations that might speed up results.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 16:54
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
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Progress: 72%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEY100
The IDM program’s approach to reduce insulin levels is:
Fasting
Reduce Refined Carbohydrates
Eat high fat
Fiber
Vinegar
Spices and herbs, e.g. cinnamon, tumeric,etc.


Since I'm already doing 4 out of the 6 (no refined carbs, high fat, fiber, vinegar), I should check it out! But I'm leery of fasting right now, tho I've accidentally gone pretty long (for me) without food with no bad effects. I'm also not sure that spices & herbs could do all that much.

With what I am doing, my BG is going down, so I must be doing something right. I've started checking my BG 1-2 hours after a meal & it's usually below 100.
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 17:12
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,211
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Below 100 PP is fantastic...and the weight loss too. You are doing so well Bonnie! How much and when do you take ACV?

He only mentioned the spices once so not sure what that is about either, except cinnamon is one suggestion to add to hot water on the fast day.

After watching all his lectures, he is the reason changed my signature to the complete Hippocrates quote, hadn't heard the last part about not eating before and it fits my current plan.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sat, Jul-12-14 at 17:18.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Jul-12-14, 17:36
Bonnie OFS Bonnie OFS is offline
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Posts: 2,384
 
Plan: Dr. Bernstein
Stats: 188/150/135 Female 5 ft 4 inches
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Progress: 72%
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I started taking vinegar because I had read in an old ADA article that it seemed to help lower BG. I tried different amounts, morning, evening, both - and nothing seemed to change. Except my leg cramps went away! So I've been taking 1 tablespoon (2 caps-full) of cider vinegar every evening. So far, the only cramps I've had are mild & they don't happen as often. Unlike the killer cramps I used to get.

I'm thinking, tho, that I may have expected results too quickly for my BG. I've been taking it for a couple of months now. So maybe it's kicking in with helping the BG. Dunno - but I'll keep taking it for help with the cramps.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 03:44
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,211
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

I am starting small with 1T of ACV in a cup of water before dinner. Someone posted on the LC support group that he takes 2T before bed and it reduces the morning FBG, however, just the thought makes me shutter I am doing so many other things, you are right, who knows if the ACV has any effect.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 08:39
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
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Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Thanks Janet for posting the link to Dr Fung's website. I listened to 3 videos yesterday and am sold on his hypothesis that diabetes is fundamentally a disease of insulin resistance than increased blood sugar levels. I am sold on the idea of fasting and plan to do it today. I found his instructions for fasting under Patient Resources. So far, so good. What I am having trouble finding is his prescription for what to eat on non-fasting days. I know he likes low carb, but how low? Is there link to this information or must I cobble it together from the myriad videos?

Last edited by Liz53 : Sun, Jul-13-14 at 10:06.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 09:51
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leemack leemack is offline
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Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
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Makes me wonder..... my insulin issues started around age 10 and I went through a phase of wanting to put vinegar on all my food, even sandwiches - I wanted that vinegary taste. I was soon convinced by adults to stop doing it. But I wonder if my body was trying to tell me something that I needed to help the insulin levels???
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Jul-13-14, 10:08
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,211
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liz53
Thanks Janet for posting the link to Dr Fung's website. I listened to 3 videos yesterday and am sold on his hypothesis that diabetes fundamentally a disease of insulin resistance than increased blood sugar levels. I am sold on the idea of fasting and plan to do it today. I found his instructions for fasting under Patient Resources. So far, so good. What I am having trouble finding is his prescription for what to eat on non-fasting days. I know he likes low carb, but how low? Is there link to this information or must I cobble it together from the myriad videos?


I never found any recommended foods or diet per se either, but he favors a real food, unprocessed, paleoish approach, and paleo is carb agnostic. In that Diet and Disease part 5, whether a traditional society was high carb or low, it was the move to processed foods that brought diseases of civilization. Figured I already had reduced refined carbs and high fat under control, the only difference is the fiber. But looking back at MFP, my highest carb days are still only around 50g, with fiber 20g. Habits are hard to break, and I haven't added any starches, resistant or otherwise. My splurge is baby carrots with lunch meat, maybe I'll go wild and get some hummus too.

Last edited by JEY100 : Sun, Jul-13-14 at 11:30.
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  #13   ^
Old Tue, Jul-15-14, 03:56
JEY100's Avatar
JEY100 JEY100 is offline
To Good Health!
Posts: 11,211
 
Plan: IF Fung/LC Westman/Primal
Stats: 222/171/169 Female 5' 9"
BF:45%/25.3%/24%
Progress: 96%
Location: NC
Default

Viewing again Part 3, Trial by Diet, last part right after 1 hour, Dr. Fung suggests what to eat. That section is first introduced with Paleo Diet by Cordain, then he recommended and gave a handout to audience for Dr. Hyman's Blood Sugar Solution general rules; throw out any processed foods with HFCS, seed oils, ingredients you can't pronouce, additives, artifical sweeteners, etc. Just Eat Real Food. Berries, avocado, nuts, natural carbohydrates packaged with their own fiber, etc. No processed meats. So for "the diet", seems he uses Hyman's "The Blood Sugar Solution" plan.
Here he also showed the Vinegar studies, inc. the one with 2T at bedtime to reduce insulin and FBG. Vinegar with foods also increases satiety and is cardio-protective.
When to Eat for a Regular (not-fasting) diet/day: Eat three meals a day, no snacking, eat all meals within an 8-10 hour eating window. Reduce cortisol with sleep and stress reduction.

Last edited by JEY100 : Tue, Jul-15-14 at 04:24.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Jul-15-14, 08:31
Liz53's Avatar
Liz53 Liz53 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,140
 
Plan: Mostly Fung/IDM
Stats: 165/138.4/135 Female 63
BF:???/better/???
Progress: 89%
Location: Washington state
Default

Thanks, Janet. I just happened to listen to/watch Part 3 last night and paid close attention to what he said to eat. And I just happen to have Dr Hyman's book in my extensive LC library. It arrived as we were selling our house a few years ago, and I never read it very carefully. Will be reading that with fresh eyes as well.
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-14, 06:22
JoMac53 JoMac53 is offline
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Plan: Bernstein
Stats: 223/137/124 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 87%
Question

Sorry if this is a little off topic but I did a search for Dr. Hyman's book ("The Blood Sugar Solution") and found his website and his "Double Peanut Butter Chocolate Cups" recipe http://www.bloodsugarsolution.com/2...chocolate-cups/ but I'm confused by the list of ingredients and the instructions not saying which ones go to which layer in the recipe. I just wanted to ask if anyone has the book that has this recipe in it and is it any more clear in the book? Or does anyone just know from experience making this recipe? Thank you and I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
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