We can't control what others do, but we can control how we respond to their actions.

Peace and rainbows.

This is what I was referring to. You might need to give concrete examples getting into something like this--otherwise, people might think you're making more of a generalization than you intend.

And whether you mean to make such a generalization or not--the fact is, it is a fairly common generalization made in our society. And I'll repeat, it's an offensive one.

And that 600 pound life--does that really sound like fun? Abusing the system? Maybe. But to a person with a normal metabolism, a full sized family dinner from KFC isn't decadence. It's extremely unpleasant to eat 10X the normal portion size, unless you have a body that's just screaming for those calories. Maybe an extra cupcake or two is gluttony. But when somebody like Jimmy Moore in the old days eats two boxes of Lil Debbie snack cakes and washes it down with a dozen cokes, that's a severe metabolic dysregulation, I don't know how to see it any other way.

Sometimes a person doesn't seem to be fighting something very hard. Sometimes that's because they've given up. Sometimes it's because what they're up against is way harder than others might understand, or even be willing to admit. Maybe you see her enjoying inordinate amounts of food on that silly show. What don't you see? Maybe the sheer torment she'd go through if she deprived herself? You can't know another person's hunger.

Yes, a bajallion other reasons. Reasons that are NOT plainly visible the second you walk through the door for that first interview. You can't hide being obese. All the spanks in the world will not disguise an extra 100 pounds. Is it fair? No. But life isn't fair. And when a potential employer can immediately see that you are prone to the myriad of issues being discussed here, you are handicapped from the start, figuratively, even if you are not literally.

First impressions count. Image counts. We can discuss at great length all the reasons it shouldn't. But that won't change the fact that is DOES.

FINALLY!!!!!! and thank you!!!!!

True!!! But if it didnt matter, if it wasnt an issue, then would anyone be here on the forum trying to lose weight??? Would anyone care??

Jo xxx

Well it is an issue, of course. And I think that society's standards pushing towards people being slender as "healthy/desirable" is a GOOD thing. Or would be if it wasn't being pushed in such a ridiculously wrong way. Just thinking about small things, like how much my feet HURT at the end of the day from carrying that extra 100 pounds around makes me realize how much healthier and happier I am comparatively. (pain makes me grumpy) Nobody should have to go through that, or think it's ok and accept it as normal.

Yes, the 150 pound person can be a total trainwreck inside, and horribly unhealthy, while the 250 pound person may have been low-carb for the past year, down from 350 and showing remarkable improvements in every health marker. But that's not going to be on anybody's resume. Sucks, but it is what it is.

I wouldn't lose weight for appearance and impressions. My motivator is mobility and comfort and aging with abundant health.

Oh for pete's sake, yes first impressions count. Weight is only one of a gazillion. Does the person have energy, charisma, style, also? Confidence and a track record? I am over 100 pounds and have a great time at interviews; they're like a mutual flirtation where you and the company see what each other is like and whether it's a fit. If the other person dismisses me instantly as fat, I just think, oh, one of them, and leave shortly.

Everybody has downsides even if they don't show as obviously as overfat. For example if I see a thin middle aged woman with aged skin, no musculature, and an anxious affect, I might think "low-fat vegetarian alert, watch for cranky and complaining of illnesses" until I learn more.

I would say that there is nothing further from reality than reality TV. Or any TV in general really. (particularly the news, but that's a different discussion) And I have yet to meet or hear of an overweight person in real life who wants to lose weight, but refuses to because they may loose their handicap parking. Although I do know several who have simply given up in despair and frusturation, truly believeing that they are doomed, so why not at least get the good parking spot? There is a difference though.

Funny thought I just had, I have known two people that were overweight, and actually gained on purpose... so they could qualify for bariatric (spellcheck just called it barbaric) surgery. Isn't that a conundrum....

The core of the matter. It isn't fair, nor is it right, but this is the way our world works.


I can understand where CaliMatt is coming from. Truth can be brutal. It is still true. Now should we assume that every obese person is lazy and is looking for excuses and a handout? Absolutely not!

We should help those with handicapping circumstances. But we can't carry them all the way. At some point, they have to reach deep inside themselves and decide to fight. They must decide, and they must help themselves or at least make an honest effort to do so. So many do not.

For instance, my mother is 68. She was diagnosed diabetic at 52, though we are certain that she had it well before, and has been very obese all her life. She knew what she was supposed to do, but she ate baked chips and Nutter Butters. She became enraged when docs told her she needed to lose weight and change her diet for her health. I bought her a low-impact DVD and tried many times to do it with her. She just sat in front of her show or in front of the computer playing her games.

Just before Christmas, I get a call from Dad because she was in the ICU for sepsis and kidney failure. This was the 3rd time she had been hospitalized for diabetic related sepsis. This time she was in for months. She could barely sit up, let alone walk. When her insurance decided to no longer pay for the hospital room, she was sent home, she could only walk a few steps at a time and was wearing diapers.

Like so many others, she could have just given up, and said "poor me", and made dad her slave, and would have deteriorated until she died in a nursing home. Instead, she fought. She has gone from 315 to 223 (she is 5'4") and is still losing. She can walk a block every day. She can stand and cook again. Sure, she has help. She has physical therapy twice a week. And dad has been her devoted coach. It all started with HER deciding she wanted to live again. Really live.

I am immensely proud of that woman. She's taking her life back. After what I saw her and dad go through, I was inspired to take mine back. I'm going to fight hard and dirty against my food demons and be healthy and fit for my family. That is why I am here.

There is a vast difference between those who are obese and ignorant of how to turn it around and those who know how to start fixing it and don't try. Having people like that in your life is frustrating. And there ARE many people who are the latter. They don't need to be defended. They need to wake up.

I woke up. Many of us here are here because we woke up. But we are fighters. And I understand how it might be easy to lose sympathy for that subset. I have no sympathy for myself. If I give in to the Loki on my shoulder who keeps trying to tell me it's too hard and to give up, then I'm a pathetic fool. Sounds harsh, but if I coddle myself, I fail.

Those other people aren't me, and I hate that they can't find the wherewithal to hop off the entitlement or martyr-train. I wish they would. They aren't hopeless, though. My mother is doing it after all. I wouldn't have pegged her as ever getting up and fighting. She was the martyr type. I am glad to say I was wrong.

The offensive thing here is the generalization. Most certainly. Fat does not mean "lazy mooch." What we need to remember is where we came from. Some of us need to remember we might have been in their shoes at one time. They are human beings with feelings and strengths and weaknesses. And some of them need to wake the heck up! Whether or not they do, they are still human beings deserving of respect. And it isn't for any one individual to decide whether or not that fat person you see riding a cart through Walmart is lazy or genuinely needs the help. They might be in the middle of their journey to health. It's best we just treat others well as a rule and tend our own gardens. Our own needs weeding just as much as everyone else's.

Sure, all those things count. Those are also all things you can fake. Obesity is somewhat unique, in that you cannot hide it. I once applied for a job I wasn't qualified for, but figured I could learn quickly. I actually called a friend who had been in this particular trade the night before the interview, and had her walk me through a day and the process. Walked in and was able to bluff my way through it, with confident energy.

On-point post.

I have absolute respect for people who realize they're facing a problem and take steps to fix it. However, I have zero respect when people put their problems on other people and refuse to deal with them. If someone has a medical reason for obesity, I can understand it from a physical standpoint. If someone is just gluttonous to the point of packing on that much weight and refusing to lose it, that pushes my button.

I think it's wrong to be judging the obese person in the supermarket for a few reasons. Firstly it's none of our business, but if we the judgemental type, then how about remembering that we don't know that person's full circumstances - we are simply judging on how they look. We don't know if that person has other medical conditions that have contributed to their immobility or obesity. As a person who through a confluence of circumstances and medical issues put on a huge amount of welght in a very short space of time, even though there was no excessive eating and I was on my feet all day working plus walking miles every day, I can tell you it isn't always as simple as someone sitting on their backside stuffing their face all day. After years of trying to lose weight unsuccessfully, I'm only now coming to understand and work to put right the things that contributed to the massive gain and inability to lose.

I also think that until you have been in the shoes of a super obese person with mobility problems, you have no idea of how it affects a person. Imagine trying to do your daily activities carrying around one or two extra people - I doubt most people would make it to the end of their driveway carrying around a 250lb fat suit. Even the smallest of tasks are exhausting - if you believe anyone in their right mind wants to live that way you're insane.

Anyone who has just put on weight even to the obese category has no idea of the factors involved in gain to super obese and the psychological toll it takes to have to live that way, desperately trying to lose. Imagine the looks of disgust and hate you get everywhere you go and how soul destroying it is to have people treat you that way. I refuse to use mobility aids because I can't take the looks and abuse I'd get. So please think about that the next time you look your disgust at someone super obese.

Another thing to consider is that all around the obese person on the mobility scooter, are people who don't wear their sins on the outside who have probably done far worse than gain some weight and have mobility issues. The criminals, wife beaters, child abusers, psycopaths etc. all walk anonymously in the supermarket right past you while you're staring disgust at someone like me.

As for me, I am trying despite barriers to improve my weight and health, but it is unlikely I'll ever be normal weight- my metabolism is too damaged. I have to resign myself to the looks of disgust and distaste for the rest of my life - even if I lose 150lbs, I'll still be obese and my other medical issues mean I'll still have mobility problems - so does this mean my refusal to use aids will cause me to continue to be housebound - I don't know......

I think it's also important to make the point that the legal action here in the original post is by a man who actually wants to work, he doesn't want handouts, he wants to earn his keep and he wants the ECHR to say that an employer can't stop him working simply because he's obese.

How could you ever know?

PJ

Agreed 100%. It was the same point I was trying to make. Hope I succeeded, but if not then you got it.

Fatists (made a new word) look at me and see a fat pig. Well, I've lost weight. They don't know, and if they did, they still don't care. They are filled with judgment and hate. But it is a huge thing for me. I am insecure knowing what fatists think of me. I'm 35 and not as mobile as I'd like but I'm working on it. I can't fathom the issues those who have more health issues than I face. They don't need the hateful looks and comments.

People are people to me. My mother was always obese. I have always struggled with my weight. I have friends who are "fat." I have a friend who is skinny as a rail who struggles to keep weight on. Their personal appearance was not once a factor in my decision to become friends with them or whether or not to keep the relationship. I cultivate my relationships based upon personality alone. Before I met Hubs, I dated guys of all sizes. And let me tell you, the thin guys were as often jerks as the others.


You are right. Appearances are a mask. An illusion. The marrow and worth of the person is inside. Clothes, weight, good-looks: a glamour. But ones we've been conditioned by society to appraise above other attributes.

Is it better to be healthy? Well, Duh! But it is as unhealthy to cultivate negative judgments and attitudes toward others. It is a sickness of its own. Unfortunately, there are a lot of unhealthy people on this planet. How do we cure it? Treat everyone how you want to be treated in return. Everything else follows after. Too bad there isn't a pill for that.

It isn't easy to be nice to people who aren't nice to you, though. But it can be done. It takes effort just like everything else.

If a person cannot do a job without risking injury then I'd agree they shouldn't be in it, whether a new applicant or an existing employee.

However what people can do and what stupid arrogant ignorant people assume they can do are completely different things.

When I was about 20 and I was managing three warehouses and purchasing for a marking devices manufacturer and raw goods materials supplier, most of my employees were ex-Navy boys ('cause they never bitch about hard work and overtime LOL) and I had to be able to do all the trucks / forklifts / ladders / heavy boxes they did because damn if I was going to let them think I was a weak-girl, and that I was younger than everyone working for me didn't help. I suppose it's a given that people have "assumptions" no matter what they are -- in that case, because I was female and because I was young.

We had a woman working for one of our distributors who came, she was probably 80# overweight which at the time I considered shockingly unbelievable (I grew up a performing artist, so I had a lot of negative opinions about obesity until it attacked me and won), and one of the first things she said when we met her was about her weight and people expecting her to be lazy or whatever but she's totally not, she was so gung ho it looked like a cheerleader interview. I remember thinking, perhaps she expects she needs to explain that. I didn't need it because I assumed if she has the job, she does the job or she wouldn't have it or I wouldn't let her keep it, and I didn't consider what she looked like to be related to her job, only to how obviously uncool she was personally. Anyway but over the course of the next few weeks, nearly every other distributor I met actually brought up specially a conversation with this woman and her saying something like that. It was like the most popular topic of gossip. You'd think that she had been a celebrity the way she was the focus of everyone's attention. It was so weird. I get why, now. I didn't then. The navy boys never said a word about any of it, oddly. Far as they were concerned, her doing the work was all that mattered and when she showed she could, they never blinked about the size of her butt.

PJ