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  #16   ^
Old Thu, Aug-09-18, 01:59
BillyHW's Avatar
BillyHW BillyHW is offline
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Posts: 378
 
Plan: Keto + IF
Stats: 260/300/165 Male 5' 6"
BF:
Progress: -42%
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Not sure why. Peanut butter for instance is one of the least insulinogenic foods according to all the charts I've looked at.
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  #17   ^
Old Thu, Aug-09-18, 06:26
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 12,998
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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I suspect it's not all that least insulinogenic after I eat 700 grams of it.

Something I haven't been able to find is how insulin scales--I believe the "insulin index" studies were around 240 calories? Benjamin Bikman's talk looking at synergistic effects of glucose and amino acids combined on insulin secretion--peanuts aren't that high in carbohydrate, but as the glucose goes up from a higher dose of peanuts, the effect of the amino acids on insulin secretion is going to go up as well. 240 calories of peanuts is about an ounce and a half, not a very satisfying snack for me. Actually more satisfying for me if I'm eating more ketogenically. The rule seems to be the more ketogenically I'm eating, and the more body fat I have, the less prone to a binge I am.

I tend to have more control over foods like peanuts and nuts if I'm eating more ketogenically. It's not just a matter of being in ketosis, because fasting makes things worse. I still don't keep them in the house, because I don't want the place booby trapped if I happen to slip up somewhere.
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  #18   ^
Old Thu, Aug-09-18, 12:15
bluej bluej is offline
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Posts: 143
 
Plan: Low carb
Stats: 333/177/138 Female 5'6"
BF:BMI 56/28/22
Progress: 80%
Location: Australia
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I can't eat peanut butter without thinking of it thickly spread on white bread and butter -- so I don't
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  #19   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-18, 11:47
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Robin120 Robin120 is offline
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Posts: 4,040
 
Plan: low carb
Stats: 171/125/145 Female 5'9
BF:
Progress: 177%
Location: DC
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I know this was last posted in a month ago, but saw the thread had started 3 years ago and I replied then that I had trouble with peanuts and pb and found dry roasted edamame and pumpkin seeds much easier.
I thought I would follow up- they are easy for me now, but I do use a quarter cup "pinch cup" (i bought a set of six for maybe $7 or so). They measure a perfect ounce. I use them for nuts, seeds and dips (two servings most dips is one quarter cup).
I also do fine with pb in single serve packets like justen's.

Sooo.... you might find you can try again down the road?
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  #20   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-18, 20:46
GRB5111's Avatar
GRB5111 GRB5111 is offline
Posts: 2,412
 
Plan: Ketogenic (LCHFKD)
Stats: 227/186/185 Male 6' 0"
BF:
Progress: 98%
Location: Herndon, VA
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Peanut butter and grass fed butter. I used to eat it for a dessert with a healthy square of butter and peanut butter drizzled on top. Every now and then I'd sprinkle roasted hazelnuts over the concoction. Yes, the peanut butter does not have an "off" switch for me. I have to be careful and stay within limits.
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  #21   ^
Old Mon, Sep-03-18, 21:44
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,327
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
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Pistachios are the worst
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  #22   ^
Old Thu, Sep-20-18, 20:48
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,976
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teaser
I suspect it's not all that least insulinogenic after I eat 700 grams of it.

Something I haven't been able to find is how insulin scales--I believe the "insulin index" studies were around 240 calories?


Or did you mean glucose index ?

From The Glucose Revolution by Jennie Brand-Miller PhD et al.

Pg 26.

" How Scientists Measure the Glycemic Index:

An amount of food containing 50 grams of carbohydrate is given to a volunteer to eat. For example, to test boiled spaghetti, the volunteer would be given 200 grams of spaghetti., which supplies 50 grams of carbohydrates."

also includes---

Blood samples are taken every 15 minutes for 1 hour, then every 30 minutes for two hours, if diabetic volunteer, then 3 hours.

The samples are tested 2-3 times per subject, using 8-10 subjects.

Then plotted, and the area averaged.

The baseline is set by using 50 grams of glucose or white bread.


After looking at the spagetti example plotted, bg still has not zeroed out at 2 hours. But glucose did. How is this even comparable? ANd HOW is the area under the plotted line calculated?? Graph on graph paper and count squares??

This GI number does NOT tell if the food spikes and clears quickly, or runs low and slow long after 2 hours. Each food is just a % of glucose at 2 hour limit post eating.

GI has a serious fault.

Last edited by Ms Arielle : Thu, Sep-20-18 at 21:15.
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  #23   ^
Old Fri, Sep-21-18, 10:12
barb712's Avatar
barb712 barb712 is offline
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Posts: 660
 
Plan: Atkins 40
Stats: 240/209/210 Female 5 feet 11 inches
BF:27%
Progress: 103%
Location: USA
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I threw my last bit of peanut butter away last week. I can't have a little without having a lot. It gets me in trouble.
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  #24   ^
Old Fri, Sep-21-18, 10:35
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
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Posts: 12,998
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Arielle
Or did you mean glucose index ?

From The Glucose Revolution by Jennie Brand-Miller PhD et al.

Pg 26.

" How Scientists Measure the Glycemic Index:

An amount of food containing 50 grams of carbohydrate is given to a volunteer to eat. For example, to test boiled spaghetti, the volunteer would be given 200 grams of spaghetti., which supplies 50 grams of carbohydrates."

also includes---

Blood samples are taken every 15 minutes for 1 hour, then every 30 minutes for two hours, if diabetic volunteer, then 3 hours.

The samples are tested 2-3 times per subject, using 8-10 subjects.

Then plotted, and the area averaged.

The baseline is set by using 50 grams of glucose or white bread.


After looking at the spagetti example plotted, bg still has not zeroed out at 2 hours. But glucose did. How is this even comparable? ANd HOW is the area under the plotted line calculated?? Graph on graph paper and count squares??

This GI number does NOT tell if the food spikes and clears quickly, or runs low and slow long after 2 hours. Each food is just a % of glucose at 2 hour limit post eating.

GI has a serious fault.


I agree that GI has a fault. In fact, I think it's pretty much useless. While I wouldn't eat either, I'd rather base my diet on potatoes or some other starchy, non-wheat food, than on bananas.

But I meant insulin index, there was a study a few years back looking at the insulin response to various foods, from beef to breakfast cereal, at I think it was the 240 calories. Peanuts, as you'd expect from a very high fat, fairly low carb food, came in with a very low insulin response.

I found the whole thing a bit flawed. Lean beef came in very high. Looked worse than cheese... but it depended how you looked at it. The leaner protein foods had a higher absolute insulin response, but if you looked at insulin per gram of protein or carbohydrate in something like cheese, or peanuts, the higher fat foods gave a higher insulin response per gram of carb and protein. So if postprandial insulin is how you get your kicks, probably eating lean protein away from the fat will give you a lower insulin under the curve. I'm not sure that would be optimal for protein synthesis, though.
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  #25   ^
Old Fri, Sep-21-18, 10:58
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 8,976
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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All very interesting. Including insulin response is as important as the actual blood sugar levels. Probably more really. How odd that protein spikes the insulin. Has the protein actually broken down into glucose that the insulin can clear from the blood stream? This seems unlikely. Logically, protein would be first used as amino acids, not as glucose. So what is going on I wonder.

Also explains why I can drop body weight faster when the amount of protein consumed in a day is also decreased. Probably NOT so much due to the decrease in calories but rather an insulin effect is decreased. Interesting stuff.



PS. Peanuts on this GI listing is 14. It like other nuts can be trouble makers. Can't eat just one. lol
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  #26   ^
Old Fri, Sep-21-18, 11:52
teaser's Avatar
teaser teaser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 12,998
 
Plan: mostly milkfat
Stats: 190/152.4/154 Male 67inches
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: Ontario
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It doesn't have to break into glucose--there's a response dependent on amino acids. There may be a further-down-the-road effect on insulin--in the extreme, take a total fast versus eating nothing but protein, and while production of glucose from the amino acids may be a slow process, it does provide for a higher glycogen storage in both liver and muscle, and increased fasting insulin and glucose production versus the total fast.

As Ben Bikman has shown in his video that's been going the rounds, a combination of glucose and certain amino acids will result in a greater insulin secretion than glucose alone. This is also true of fatty acids, as well as ketones. ATP production and insulin secretion are tied, and it's easy to see how addition of one of the other fuels to glucose might increase ATP production. Replacing glucose with the other fuels might decrease it, since glucose is sort of the zero-to-sixty fuel, but adding these other calorie sources is another story. Various amino acids enter the Kreb cycle at different points, maybe part of why they have differing effects on insulin secretion.
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  #27   ^
Old Fri, Sep-21-18, 12:07
Ms Arielle's Avatar
Ms Arielle Ms Arielle is offline
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Posts: 8,976
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 247/217/153 Female 5'8"
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Massachusetts
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Very interesting. Will look for that video from Bikman.
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