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  #91   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 13:05
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliaca201
so, should I lose faith in the completeness/healthiness of the LC/paleo diet? did our ancestors need sodium supplements, or did they get them elsewhere?

According to Phinney/Volek they didn't lack for sodium supplements. The Masai get it from drinking cattle blood and the Inuit got it from ice of a certain age. I think I quoted them earlier in the thread.

Salt is pretty easy to acquire, especially if you live close to an ocean, or a primordial ocean and our ancestors weren't idiots.

Also, they probably didn't all eat very low carb diets. The more carbs you have, the more your body hangs onto sodium.
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  #92   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 13:17
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Also, they probably didn't all eat very low carb diets. The more carbs you have, the more your body hangs onto sodium.


Actually, we humans did not start "farming" until about 3000BC or so. And in the beginning, the farming was to gather animals so they did not have to hunt them all the time. Then grasses started to be grown to feed the animals if corralled and it was a while before grains and other carbs came into our diets becasue of our growing. When that happened, dental caries (cavities) became more common place. We did eat what fruit or other edibles were around, naturally, but meat was the mainstay of our diet.
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  #93   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 13:26
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 45,298
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Carbs predate agriculture, of course.

Don't forget tubers, fruits, nuts and things like sago palms. I think the amount of carbs in the diet of pre-agricultural people probably varied by location. In places like the New Guinea Highlands they don't have a whole lot of protein sources so they depend a lot on things like sago palms and other gathering. They also resort to eating large jungle spiders because protein is so much harder to come by. (Source: Guns, Germs and Steel).

Obviously it's different in places like the Arctic circle where protein and fat are very abundant.

It's probably safe to say that pre-agricultural people generally eat fewer carbs than most modern people do, and definitely ate less sugar, but I don't think you can paint them as low carb as most of us are. Some were, some weren't.

The Kitavans eat pretty high-carb, but they're quite healthy until they start eating Western sorts of carb. Then they start to suffer from the same stuff we do.

I tend to think that if your metabolism is healthy you can eat like a Kitavan and get away with it (starchy tubers, fish, coconut), but once you break your metabolism you might not be able to get away with the starches.
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  #94   ^
Old Wed, Oct-10-12, 22:06
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish
Stats: 225/175/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Carbs predate agriculture, of course.

Don't forget tubers, fruits, nuts and things like sago palms. I think the amount of carbs in the diet of pre-agricultural people probably varied by location. In places like the New Guinea Highlands they don't have a whole lot of protein sources so they depend a lot on things like sago palms and other gathering. They also resort to eating large jungle spiders because protein is so much harder to come by. (Source: Guns, Germs and Steel).
...
Cannibalism was practiced in New Guinea as a source of protein. It still is not unknown to happen.
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  #95   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-12, 07:59
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
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THose people did not do it for protien though.

When I was a child I heard about cannabulism and asked about it. I was told that it would make us sick if we ate human flesh. So, I always assumed it was impossible, very few animals eat others of the same spieces. Obviousely Mom was meaning sick in the head if we at it, but still, its kinda nasty to eat other humans.
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  #96   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-12, 08:46
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexym2
THose people did not do it for protien though.

I'm not sure why you say that. Humans have feasted on their enemies, and their own dead, throughout the ages. We know that because we find their remains with the marks of implements used to butcher and dig out marrow.

Jared Diamond writes about how cannibalism has been practiced as civilizations collapse and there isn't enough food/protein to go around, especially on islands where the population might explode and there simply isn't enough food.

Quote:
Some anthropologists, such as Tim White, suggest that cannibalism was common in human societies prior to the beginning of the Upper Paleolithic period. This theory is based on the large amount of "butchered human" bones found in Neanderthal and other Lower/Middle Paleolithic sites.[45] Cannibalism in the Lower and Middle Paleolithic may have occurred because of food shortages.[46]
In Gough's Cave, England, remains of human bones and skulls, around 15,000 years old, suggest that cannibalism took place amongst the people living in or visiting the cave,[47] and that they may have used human skulls as drinking vessels.[48][49]
According to one historical account, aboriginal tribes of Australia were "most certainly cannibals", and would willingly eat anyone who was killed in a fight; they would also eat men famed for their fighting ability who had died natural deaths "... out of pity and consideration for the body".[50]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism
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  #97   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-12, 09:38
gweny70's Avatar
gweny70 gweny70 is offline
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Plan: Figuring it out
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I am SO glad I ran across this thread...I haven't been successfully LCing in the last year and alot of it was because I kept raising my carbs because I thought the leg cramps, heart thumping, low energy was because of eating LC. I also was feeling horrible when I was trying to run and do my kickboxing classes...
I would get EXTREMELY painful leg cramps and feel like I was going to pass out....I didn't want to feel like this anymore and I didn't want to give up the running and kickboxing which I was really enjoying...So I raised my carbs thinking that was the problem....However once I started raising my carbs back came my cravings and I haven't been able to get and stay on track since.

To think this whole time it might just have been a matter of raising my salt intake?!?! Wow, if so--I'm SO EXCITED!! It makes sense!

Now I'm really excited to get back on track with LC and this time I'm going to make sure I raise my salt intake to the 5grams. Hopefully that will be the answer!!

Thanks for all the great input everyone!!
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  #98   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-12, 10:33
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sexym2 sexym2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodger
Cannibalism was practiced in New Guinea as a source of protein. It still is not unknown to happen.

I read this article. I'm sure at one time is was a commen thing in some culters. But for this article, and this particular group, they didn't do it for protien. They were a cult and did it because they thought they would recieve more "powers."

Obviousely we are an animal no different than any other animal. Heck, my Molly fish just at another Molly that died. But most species won't eat another of there own, unless they are really hungry.
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  #99   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-12, 12:13
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
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Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gweny70
I am SO glad I ran across this thread...I haven't been successfully LCing in the last year and alot of it was because I kept raising my carbs because I thought the leg cramps, heart thumping, low energy was because of eating LC. I also was feeling horrible when I was trying to run and do my kickboxing classes...
I would get EXTREMELY painful leg cramps and feel like I was going to pass out....I didn't want to feel like this anymore and I didn't want to give up the running and kickboxing which I was really enjoying...So I raised my carbs thinking that was the problem....However once I started raising my carbs back came my cravings and I haven't been able to get and stay on track since.

To think this whole time it might just have been a matter of raising my salt intake?!?! Wow, if so--I'm SO EXCITED!! It makes sense!

Now I'm really excited to get back on track with LC and this time I'm going to make sure I raise my salt intake to the 5grams. Hopefully that will be the answer!!

Thanks for all the great input everyone!!


Glad you found us, Salt, magesuim and potassium...... all are needed to stop the cramps.
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  #100   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-12, 14:50
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
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Posts: 4,850
 
Plan: Depends on the Day
Stats: 221/169.6/145 Female 5' 10"
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Location: Southeastern, Iowa USA
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Oddest thing, I woke up at 4 this morning with a leg cramp. Got it taken care of right away so it wasn't to bed. I took my 2 servings of salt and pottasium and my magnesium as I normally do and I havn't had troubles with it, till last night. I'm upping it to 3 servings of salt and pottasium today.
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  #101   ^
Old Thu, Oct-11-12, 14:55
Aradasky's Avatar
Aradasky Aradasky is offline
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Posts: 10,116
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 199/000/000 Female 5"3'
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Location: Southern California
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Yes, I think I depleted more fluids yesterday, had cramps about 3 am, too. Good idea, I think I will up mine and my magnesium, too.
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  #102   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-12, 15:06
wfte wfte is offline
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Hi, new to these boards.

I just wanted to check, people seemed to have used sodium and salt interchangably through this thread.

Is the recommended amount 5000mg of salt or sodium? As salt is around 40% sodium so quite a difference between the two.
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  #103   ^
Old Sat, Oct-13-12, 17:35
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deirdra deirdra is offline
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Plan: HF/vLC/GF,CF,SF
Stats: 197/136/150 Female 66 inches
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfte
Is the recommended amount 5000mg of salt or sodium? As salt is around 40% sodium so quite a difference between the two.
Volek et al. recommend purposely adding 2-3 g of sodium per day if you are eating less than 60 g of carbs per day (1-2 g of sodium is mentioned earlier in the book without regard to carb count); this would be ~5 g (5000 mg) of NaCl salt. Note the 1-3 g of salt is in addition to what's naturally in your food. I tend to get 500-2000 mg/day from food, so some days I do get a total of 5000 mg of Na.

Last edited by deirdra : Sat, Oct-13-12 at 17:51.
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  #104   ^
Old Sun, Oct-14-12, 06:55
wfte wfte is offline
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Thankyou for clearing that up.
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  #105   ^
Old Mon, Oct-15-12, 11:42
tbagram's Avatar
tbagram tbagram is offline
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Stats: 248/220/180 Female 67in
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I just checked my sodium level on my blood work dated 9/11/12 and it was the lowest number of the "normals". It was 136. Normals were 136-145. Been drinking a couple of cups of broth each day and salty meats for the past few days.

Would low sodium levels effect anything else on the blood work, such as the platelet count, which was high?
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