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  #61   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 09:57
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,452
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonechew
And they have been breeding heavily in the last 20 years cause I see a lot more of them now then ever before.

Yep, apparently drama queen is a trait that's selected for in this day and age. Hehe.
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  #62   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 10:38
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,850
 
Plan: Depends on the Day
Stats: 221/169.6/145 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Southeastern, Iowa USA
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At least, I wont be alive then to tell my great-great grandchildren that I walked up hill both ways to get to school or how much of an idiot there mother was for picking her husband and having idiot children.

My oldest boy is pretty smart, the other two, havn't shown that trait . . . yet.

I've been thinking about genatics and babies lately. Ya, I want another one, but my BF has a serious jaw alignment issue. His chin is, um, not prominent and his front teeth come way farther forward and stick out alot. Im thinking his genetics maybe, shouldn't be passed into the gene pool? Do you really think they had braces to correct problems and if the kid had a problem eating they coddled him/her? True, he never had a problem eating, but left to natural selection, I don't know if this trait would have been passed on. If one of my dogs had this genetic problem, they wouldn't be considered breedable.
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  #63   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 10:39
sollyb's Avatar
sollyb sollyb is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 880
 
Plan: modified Peat
Stats: 202/214/180 Female 62.5 inches
BF:
Progress: -55%
Location: Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
. As you point out though, human selection doesn't produce better humans, it produces worse humans, humans often incapable to deal with existing conditions yet still able to survive them because we protect the weak, the slow, the deformed, the stupid, etc.

It's a true paradox that the ultimate best that evolution could produce is now actively working against it, and going backwards on the evolution scale.


Where the hell is that damn asteroid? And the next Yellowstone supervolcano is overdue.........

As George Carlin said "we're goin' away"
one way or the other,
sol
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  #64   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 10:48
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,850
 
Plan: Depends on the Day
Stats: 221/169.6/145 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Southeastern, Iowa USA
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Ya, kids are over-rated anyway. Were slowly killing ourselves and our future.
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  #65   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 11:07
Thomas1492's Avatar
Thomas1492 Thomas1492 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,826
 
Plan: Ketogenic
Stats: 500/408/300 Male 73 inches
BF:toodamnmuch
Progress: 46%
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LStump
Our brains may be smaller, but I wonder if it is overall smaller or if there is a specific part that has significantly become smaller over the years.

Well Asian men eat a lot of rice and Soy products and they are definitely smaller...If you know what I mean..
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  #66   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 11:21
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,452
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexym2
At least, I wont be alive then to tell my great-great grandchildren that I walked up hill both ways to get to school or how much of an idiot there mother was for picking her husband and having idiot children.

My oldest boy is pretty smart, the other two, havn't shown that trait . . . yet.

I've been thinking about genatics and babies lately. Ya, I want another one, but my BF has a serious jaw alignment issue. His chin is, um, not prominent and his front teeth come way farther forward and stick out alot. Im thinking his genetics maybe, shouldn't be passed into the gene pool? Do you really think they had braces to correct problems and if the kid had a problem eating they coddled him/her? True, he never had a problem eating, but left to natural selection, I don't know if this trait would have been passed on. If one of my dogs had this genetic problem, they wouldn't be considered breedable.

This assumes that your BF's morphology is solely the result of his genetic makeup. It's not. In fact, we could even say it's mostly due to his diet. The alternative is that we believe that humans are inherently defective. We're not. The very idea that millions of years of natural selection would ultimately give us defective humans is absurd. Weston Price, Nutrition And Physical Degeneration to illustrate:

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_li...e/pricetoc.html

The pictures are eloquent, to say the least. We could use this presentation by Andreas Eenfeldt to illustrate the same point. Note at 2:36 where he talks about evolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSeS...player_embedded

His point is that it took millions of years to get to this point to become modern humans but only 30 years to go from lean and healthy, to obese and sick. It's not the genes.

So what does it all mean for your desire to make another kid? That's the question isn't it.
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  #67   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 11:26
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,452
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas1492
Well Asian men eat a lot of rice and Soy products and they are definitely smaller...If you know what I mean..

Ohhhh...Naughty Thomas. This could be explained by, or indicate, lower protein intake. Protein are the building blocks of animal tissues. It follows that protein intake level would control mature size. Consider the Zucker rats that still grow just as fat when starved from birth but end up with smaller organs and muscles. Pfft, consider casein and cancer data from Campbell.

Naughty Thomas. Hehe.
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  #68   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 12:00
leemack's Avatar
leemack leemack is offline
NEVER GIVING UP!
Posts: 5,030
 
Plan: no sugar/grains LCHF IF
Stats: 478/354/200 Female 5' 9"
BF:excessive!!
Progress: 45%
Location: UK
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
That's true. But this means there's no more natural selection. We now have human selection. And this new selection applies not only to ourselves, but to everything we control, cattle, plants, trees, fish, rodents, bugs, and basically everything affected by our activities. We are not only the top of the food chain, but the new designers of the food chain. As you point out though, human selection doesn't produce better humans, it produces worse humans, humans often incapable to deal with existing conditions yet still able to survive them because we protect the weak, the slow, the deformed, the stupid, etc. And we call ourselves the apex of evolution.

It's a true paradox that the ultimate best that evolution could produce is now actively working against it, and going backwards on the evolution scale.


I think that inevitably there will be some kind of global disaster, dramatically reducing population and destroying the way we currently live (if it doesn't wipe us all out).

At this point those with adaptability, intelligence, strength, relevant skills.....and weapons, will make it through to continue breeding. Evolution will again get the upper hand.

Vegetarians, and those unwilling to eat different sources of meat (for instance cats, dogs, rodents) or protein (ie grubs, insects) will be unlikely to survive long term.


Lee
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  #69   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 12:16
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,850
 
Plan: Depends on the Day
Stats: 221/169.6/145 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Southeastern, Iowa USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M Levac
This assumes that your BF's morphology is solely the result of his genetic makeup. It's not. In fact, we could even say it's mostly due to his diet. The alternative is that we believe that humans are inherently defective. We're not. The very idea that millions of years of natural selection would ultimately give us defective humans is absurd. Weston Price, Nutrition And Physical Degeneration to illustrate:

http://journeytoforever.org/farm_li...e/pricetoc.html

The pictures are eloquent, to say the least. We could use this presentation by Andreas Eenfeldt to illustrate the same point. Note at 2:36 where he talks about evolution:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSeS...player_embedded

His point is that it took millions of years to get to this point to become modern humans but only 30 years to go from lean and healthy, to obese and sick. It's not the genes.

So what does it all mean for your desire to make another kid? That's the question isn't it.

Not really. I still want another child, even if it will require braces. His brother has the same problem, I always figured it was heridetary. I was crossing my fingers that our child gets my perfect teeth.

Interesting theory though, food or the lack of, can change the physical build of a person in so short of a time. There are lots of hereditary problems, unfortunitely because we do help the diseased and disabled, the weakest do survice. I'm glad for modern doctors, my youngest tonsils were simply to large for him and it caused him to choke in his sleep. If the dr. hadn't taken those tonsils out, my son could very well be dead.
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  #70   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 12:50
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,452
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexym2
Interesting theory though, food or the lack of, can change the physical build of a person in so short of a time. There are lots of hereditary problems, unfortunitely because we do help the diseased and disabled, the weakest do survice. I'm glad for modern doctors, my youngest tonsils were simply to large for him and it caused him to choke in his sleep. If the dr. hadn't taken those tonsils out, my son could very well be dead.

Consider braces. We apply a weak but constant physical pressure for many years to change the alignment of our teeth. We do this with other body parts as well like the feet, the neck, the lips and ear lobes, etc. It's the same principle. With diet, the pressure is not physical, it's hormonal. But the end result is the same: We change the shape of our body.

Consider steroids and growth hormone and all the other substances we use to change our musculature. This also works on the same principle. Apply weak but constant pressure over long periods to ultimately change our physical shape. The same is true for obesity. In this case, the pressure come in the form of the hormone insulin.

So as you see, it's not just a theory.

As for tonsils and allowing disease. Well, there's the idea that tonsils serve a purpose other than to make us sick. It's basically the same idea as with the appendix. They are both organs that harbor bacteria that help us digest what we eat. The problem is that our modern diet is incompatible with the bacteria that would otherwise be benign, and instead feeds bacteria that make us sick. If I had to guess, I'd say the problem is sugar.

So here what's happening is not that by treating disease we allow weak genetic material to survive, but rather we treat the symptoms of a poisonous diet instead of selecting an appropriate diet for our genetic material to begin with. To illustrate, let's say we feed grass to a lion, then notice he's getting sicker and sicker, but then instead of changing his diet from grass to meat, we decide that it's his genetic material that's wrong, and treat his "disease" instead.
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  #71   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 13:06
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexym2
Not really. I still want another child, even if it will require braces. His brother has the same problem, I always figured it was heridetary. I was crossing my fingers that our child gets my perfect teeth.

.


Feed yourself a Weston Price type of diet during your pregnancy and the child a Weston Price diet after he is born. If the problem with his jaw structure is due to poor nutrition, then he won't be affected
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  #72   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 16:18
RawNut's Avatar
RawNut RawNut is offline
Lipivore
Posts: 1,205
 
Plan: Very Low Carb Paleo
Stats: 270/185/180 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenJ
Yes it is. How could it not be?

Sorry, but I've seen babies delivered with their brains sticking out of their head- always fatal.


Because the bones aren't fused. Have a look
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  #73   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 18:29
Karhys's Avatar
Karhys Karhys is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 324
 
Plan: Primal-ish
Stats: 172/158/132 Female 5'2"
BF:
Progress: 35%
Location: Rural NSW, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas1492
Well Asian men eat a lot of rice and Soy products and they are definitely smaller...If you know what I mean..


From my personal experience with a number of Japanese men, I'd like to beg to differ on this point.

...that said, all the Japanese men I've dated have been under 30... so maybe the introduction of so much Western food into their diets (a big change for them, and largely only since WWII) has been doing them some good after all? In that case, I can't complain entirely about such a diet! I'm willing to bet it wasn't the wheat though!
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  #74   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 18:41
LStump's Avatar
LStump LStump is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,105
 
Plan: Gluten Free, Low Carb
Stats: 205/200.2/150 Female 5ft 7in
BF:
Progress: 9%
Location: NoVA
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Just to offer my 2 cents on the japanese (and majority of Asian cultures...)...They are provided for with what they need.. Asian women generally aren't large and are even smaller than Asian men. Maybe they don't need much??

sorry if this is too much. But it is something I thought of when I was a tad younger and have always wondered...
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  #75   ^
Old Thu, Oct-13-11, 19:10
sexym2's Avatar
sexym2 sexym2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,850
 
Plan: Depends on the Day
Stats: 221/169.6/145 Female 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 68%
Location: Southeastern, Iowa USA
Default

We are going to get my tubal reversed, and I will eat real food, meat, fuit, veggiet and fat and nuts. I want to eat that way for life, and I do feed my children that way too. When the time comes, I'll let you know if his/her teeth are ok.
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