Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low-Carb Studies & Research / Media Watch > LC Research/Media
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 09:13
costello22's Avatar
costello22 costello22 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,544
 
Plan: VLC
Stats: 265.4/238.8/199 Female 5'5.5"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Default Positron Emission Tomography and the Warburg Effect

Definitely follow the link at the bottom of the article to see the gif animation of the PET scan of a person with several tumors. My bolding in the article.

Quote:
Medical Physics, especially Medical Imaging, is such an exciting area to be working in these days, and the above movie illustrates this very well. It is a Maximum Intensity Projection view of Positron Emission Tomography (PET) scans of a person with several tumours. Thanks to Jens Langner (http://www.jens-langner.de/) for this gif animation.

To do a PET scan, a drug or substance is 'labelled' with a radioactive tracer and this is introduced into the body. According to the type of drug or substance, it will concentrate in a particular area of the body and the gamma rays given off by the radioactive tracer can then be imaged using a special camera.

The most commonly used radiotracer in clinical PET scanning is fludeooxyglucose, an analogue of glucose that is labelled with fluorine-18, which is radioactive. This labelled glucose accumulates in tissues with high glucose uptake, such as the brain, the liver, and most cancers.

Glucose is a simple sugar called a monosaccharide. This is what all starchy foods are broken down into in the body. When people talk about 'blood sugar', they are talking about glucose.

When we eat starchy foods such as bread, pasta, potatoes, bananas, rice, cereals and many other foods, this all gets converted to glucose and this floods into our bloodstream. All digestible carbohydrates are sugars.

So, PET scans are used to diagnose cancers, because most cancers use a lot more glucose (sugar) than most normal body cells. This is referred to as the 'Warburg Effect'. This is why tumours stand out so much in a PET scan.

So, what is the 'Warburg Effect'?

Otto Warburg won the Nobel prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1931 for his work on the metabolism and respiration of cancer cells. The Warburg effect describes the enhanced conversion of glucose to lactate by tumour cells, even in the presence of adequate oxygen that would ordinarily be used for oxidative phosphorylation. Simply put, cancer cells are gluttons for sugar. Some people may have disagreed with this idea in the past, but when you see the tumours showing up so obviously in a PET scan, it is hard to say that the Warburg effect doesn't exist.

Now, I have known for several years about the Warburg Effect and to me it seems a very fundamental and important difference between normal cells and cancer cells that should be exploited.

So, I was shocked when I searched through every medical textbook on cancer in the university bookshop. I looked through the index of each book, and only one of the several dozens that I inspected had any mention of Otto Warburg!

The one book I could find that does mention it ('Molecular Biology of Cancer' by Lauren Pecorino) only has a few sentences. She says:

'Some tumour cells seem to be addicted to increased glucose uptake...'

'The observation that cancer cells carry out aerobic glycolysis converting glucose to lactate in the presence of oxygen, was made in the 1920s and is called the Warburg effect.'

'...it is of interest that the Warburg effect is the basis for an important imaging technique used to detect tumours in the clinic. PET scans work on the basis that tumour cells exhibit a greater uptake of glucose than normal cells.'

Another book that mentions Warburg is 'Cancer:Between Glycolysis and Physical Restraint') by Laurent Schwartz.

The author notes that many cancer cells respire by glycolysis and says the following:

'...there is no glycolysis without glucose. Over a few dozen years, articles were published correlating the effect of glucose depletion and tumour inhibition. Sugar depletion has little effect on normal cells (they can use other nutrients), but it produces reproductive inhibition in even the most aggressive tumor cells.'

That's all great... but now here's where I start banging my head against the wall:

'Depriving the cancer patient of glucose has little chance of curing him. The liver is rich in glycogen and in case of depletion in glucose, the liver degrades its stores of glycogen and pours it into the blood.'

Of course, the liver doesn't have an infinite supply of glycogen. According to 'Human Nutrition' edited by Geissler and Powers, the liver stores about 50 - 120g of glycogen and the muscles store another 350 - 400g.

Glucose is stored as glycogen in the body. When carbohydrates are eaten and broken down into glucose (plus other sugars such as fructose), a small amount of this glucose is stored as glycogen in the liver and muscles, and any that isn't used for energy is stored as the saturated fat, palmitic acid.

If you don't eat carbohydrates, there is no glucose to convert to glycogen and any glycogen in the liver will be used up and won't be replaced. The liver isn't an infinite supply of glycogen. Surely the only way to keep the liver supplying sugar (glucose) from glycogen is to keep filling the body with the foods that supply glucose in the first place ie starches such as pasta, bread, cereals and rice.

I shall write more on glycolysis later. Meanwhile, seeing PET images of tumours glowing with glucose is a good way to keep me away from the doughnuts (and pasta).


http://medphyzz.blogspot.com/2011/0...graphy-and.html
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 09:22
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

You obviously can't rid your blood stream of all glucose, but you don't have to load it up with glucose either and give the cancer a rich, nutrient bath in the stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 09:28
Mandra's Avatar
Mandra Mandra is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,192
 
Plan: General Low Carb
Stats: 225/208.6/140 Female 5'2"
BF:Really/effing/high
Progress: 19%
Location: Eastford, CT
Default

Strictly speaking from non-scientific observation with an N=2: I've had two dogs with hemangiosarcoma, an extremely aggressive form of cancer. Normally by the time it's discovered it has metastasized and there is little to be done. Life expectancy post-diagnosis without treatment is maybe 6 weeks or less (with treatment about 6 months or less). In both cases I put the dogs on a nearly all-meat diet, but did not opt for treatment (in the first case I thought is was hopeless, in the second the tumor was on her heart and she was not in condition to withstand the surgery and treatment). The first lived for 4 months, the second is now at 5 months post-diagnosis.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 09:51
Zei Zei is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,596
 
Plan: Carb reduction in general
Stats: 230/185/180 Female 5 ft 9 in
BF:
Progress: 90%
Location: Texas
Default

Even eating very little carbohydrate my blood sugar tends to be too high (I suspect I could be outright diabetic on a typical high carb diet). Since I'm not eating the glucose I assume my body must be manufacturing what glucose it thinks it needs, but why so much of it that my blood sugar's still above optimum, I don't know. If a person's like this and has cancer, I don't know if a low carbohydrate diet could really be a cure, but certainly an improvement as Nancy said.
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 15:04
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
Posts: 8,764
 
Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
You obviously can't rid your blood stream of all glucose, but you don't have to load it up with glucose either and give the cancer a rich, nutrient bath in the stuff.
As long as the pancreas still works, the body is usually very good at keeping it's blood glucose within a narrow range. The cancer taking out glucose would be similar to exercise make the muscles burn glucose. In either case, the blood glucose level would be kept constant.

If having high blood glucose was beneficial to cancers, then diabetics should have a very high cancer rate. I am not aware of this being so.
Reply With Quote
  #6   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 15:53
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,863
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

People with diabetes more likely to get cancer (Reuters)
More than twice as many cancers than non-diabetics and 40% more likely to die of cancer. It's an association so hard to say exactly what the cause is... excess insulin or excess blood sugar or something else? Maybe diabetics are less likely to have the healthy user effect going.
Quote:
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – People with diabetes are at higher risk for certain cancers than those without the blood sugar disease, suggests a new study.

Based on data from a telephone survey of nearly 400,000 adults, researchers found 16 out of every 100 diabetic men and 17 out of every 100 diabetic women said they had cancer.

That compares to just seven per 100 men and 10 per 100 women without diabetes.
Reply With Quote
  #7   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 17:34
WereBear's Avatar
WereBear WereBear is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 14,674
 
Plan: EpiPaleo/Primal/LowOx
Stats: 220/130/150 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 129%
Location: USA
Default

To me there is no question that cancers find the high carb body conducive to their growth. There's just too much going on:
  • the pediatric studies where a ketogenic diet shrank tumors
  • the high incidence of cancer in diabetics
  • obesity associated with higher cancer rates
  • the near absence in populations eating low carb traditionally
  • the documented metabolic disorders associated with grains and sugar
Reply With Quote
  #8   ^
Old Fri, May-20-11, 20:23
LC FP LC FP is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,162
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/195/188 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Erie PA
Default

The liver makes plenty of glucose from the amino acids from protein (gluconeogenesis), stimulated by pancreatic glucagon. The liver can also use the lactic acid from tumor cells to make glucose. So the tumor and your liver can get a nice little two-man game going. The tumor takes in glucose and secretes lactic acid, and the liver takes in lactic acid and secretes glucose. Around and around she goes. Eating low carb won't affect this much. But the ketones you generate may slow down tumor glycolysis a bit, which might help.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 23:15.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.