OK, here's one for me: If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.... not true!!

Sorry Lindasdd- I know that its your business and nothing personal about you but this is just too much BS from the baker.

I'm one of those long term success stories. As I said in an earlier post, low carb/zero carb bread is an oxymoron.
If people want to eat any bread, low carb or not, they need to do so with the right and accurate info and not be snowed by a illusion of zero carb. That is just wrong! as in false advertising.

IMO, this literally preys upon those who are looking for any way, and any excuse, to keep eating their precious bread (addicted!)...when we who have been there, know that is not going to work for most who seek weight loss.

ZC bread! What a catchy concept, must be a great money maker nowadays! Must... resist... temptation to start selling this... just kidding!

Patrick

On a more serious note. People should not forget that our bacterial flora is pretty good at converting a good chunk of this fiber to lipids which are absorbed hidden calories and usable by us. So a fiber based bread like this one may be low-carb but it's not free food.

Patrick

I don't believe that a slice of the HealthWise bread is "zero" carb, but I can shed light on some points brought up here about the analysis of the bread. There are definitely some inconsistencies in the numerical values, but not everything is as unusual as it may appear at first glance or to those unfamiliar with the chemistry and procedures involved.

First, I am a chemistry professor who specializes in bioanalytical chemistry. I perform research that deals with the chemical analysis of samples containing biomolecules and I teach these techniques to undergraduate and graduate students. I don't specialize in food analysis and have never analyzed bread, but I have occasionally analyzed other foodstuffs and I frequently work with proteins and amino acids.


That's only ca. 11% error, which is not unreasonable given the types of analyses involved here. Moisture analysis, in particular, would not necessarily have a high accuracy or precision. And, as Doreen said elsewhere in her discussion, 20% error would be common and acceptable. Plus, this report involves multiple analyses of different types and the propogation of error will become significant.

I'd find it more suspect if these figures added up exactly to 100% because that would imply normalization of the values or that at least one number was calculated (rather than experimentally measured) using subtraction of the other numbers from 100% or even that there had been fudging of the values. In my opinion, not adding up to exactly 100% is a good thing. I'm OK with 110.71 % (except that it really should be 111 % since the experimental accuracy does not support precision to 5 significant digits).

The ingredients list of HealthWise Net Zero Carb Bread (plain bread) reads: Flours (organic whole wheat bran, natural wheat protein isolate...

But, wheat protein isolate can have high levels of protein. For example, the LifeSource Food Wheat Protein Isolate 5000 sold by Netrition is advertised as 90% protein. Just because "natural wheat protein isolate" is the second ingredient in the list doesn't mean that it's present in significantly lower quantities than the wheat bran. For example, if a mixture was 50% wheat bran and 50% of a wheat protein isolate with 90% protein content, that would result in a protein content of about 45%.

33.8% protein content is not inconceivable, especially given that the bread has a low fat content.

There are no "missing aminos." A standard amino acid analysis for these 17 residues yields only 14 values. During the acid hydrolysis step of the analytical procedure, the asparagine in the sample will convert to aspartic acid (because the only difference in structure between these two amino acids is that asparagine has an amide functional group at the side chain and aspartic acid has a carboxylic acid functional group at the side chain). So, the value reported for "aspartic acid" really includes measurement of both aspartic acid and asparagine; sometimes this is referred to as total "aspartates." Likewise for the amino acids glutamine and glutamic acid, glutamine converts to glutamic acid during the analysis and the value, which is often reported as "glutamates," is a total for both amino acids. Finally, the amino acids leucine and isoleucine are generally lumped together under one value. These two are isomers, with the side chain of leucine being an n-butyl group while the side chain of isoleucine is an iso-butyl group. These two can't even be readily distinguished by higher level (and much more expensive) techniques like mass spectrometry unless you carry out some uncommon procedures like high energy collision-induced dissociation.

Therefore, the analysis of these 17 amino acids results in 14 values. That's the way it is and there's absolutely nothing strange about it. (I'd have been concerned if they had reported 17 values for these 17 compounds!)

The analysis report is no longer online, so I can't read for myself what the 18.584% proline relates to. If it means that ca. 19% of the mass of the bread is proline residues, then that's higher than I'd expect but possible. If it means that ca. 19% of the mass of the protein in the bread is composed of proline residues, then it's within the right ball park for a high fiber bread.

Wheat that is high in fiber (such as gliadins, glutenins, hordeins, and secalins) has a high proline content. Proline contents of ca. 30% in high fiber wheat and frost resistant wheat are not uncommon. Some samples of Pishtaz cultivar (a type of wheat) have been reported to have a proline content of 76%.

The broad definition of fiber is any food component not broken down by the body's digestive enzymes (usually "fiber" is complex carbohydrates like cellulose, but not always). Frost resistant wheat is not broken down by the harshness of cold. In both high fiber wheat and frost resistant wheat, a high proline content contributes significantly to this resistance to degradation. Of the 20 or 22 common amino acids (depending on how you count them), proline is the only one that has a secondary alpha-amino group. All of the other amino acids commonly found in nature have primary alpha-amino groups. This means that a proline residue bonds on its N-terminal side to the peptide backbone at two sites, making a ring system. All of the other common amino acid residues only form one bond on their N-terminal side to the backbone, making a linear connection. At a proline residue, when one of the N-terminal side bonds is broken, there's still the other bond to hold the protein together. With all of the other amino acid residues, there's one bond on the N-terminal side and once it's broken the protein is in pieces (i.e., degraded). Think of proline as a circle of string--to break it into two pieces would require two cuts. All of the other amino acid residues are like a straight piece of string--to break it into two pieces requires only one cut.

So, the proline content in wheat contributes significantly to its fiber content. High fiber bread will have a larger than normal proline content. And, the higher the fiber, the higher the proline content.

But, calculations like this don't always tell the whole story...

Calorie measurements for food are almost always made by burning a specified quantity (often 100 g) in a bomb calorimeter. The heat given off is then directly related to the reported calorie content of the food. Fiber is not generally digested, but it can burn and give off heat. Therefore, the calorie count on a food label often includes non-digestible calories from fiber.

So, in this case, there may not be "27 digestible calories left." They could be non-digestible calories. Interpreting food labels can be tricky for high fiber foods. From just looking at a label, there's no way of knowing if the calorie value includes or excludes calories from the burning of fiber.

By the way, I am not trying to imply that I believe the bread is zero carbs or that eating wheat is healthy. I think that each slice of HealthWise bread does have several grams of digestible carbohydrates and that for many people, including me, eating wheat can be a bad thing.

That depends on what form the fiber is in. If it's complex carbohydrates such as cellulose, then bacteria can convert it to lipids. If it's proline-rich indigestible protein, then I think it would be much harder to convert to lipids and usuable calories. But, that's just a supposition on my part based on the chemical structures.

Thanks for all the great info.

Patrick

Hi CarolynC. Yes, great information

I'm sorry that I only have time for a quick scan of your posts right now. I have a sick pet who's had some surgery, and she's coming home from the vet clinic later this morning. My furkids take priority , so might not get back to this for a day or two.

Just a couple things off the top of my head ..In nutrition analysis, carbohydrates are calculated, not measured directly ... http://www.medallionlabs.com/TestLi...Test.aspx?id=10

Carbohydrates are determined by the following calculations: Carbohydrates = 100 – (Moisture) – (Ash) – (Total Fat) – (Protein) Carbohydrates, available = 100 – (Moisture) – (Ash) – (Total Fat) – (Protein) – (Insoluble Dietary Fiber)

So, it's not unreasonable to expect the numbers to add up to exactly 100.


On the subject of the proline and amino acid assay .. the values represented a percentage of the total weight of the sample, not percentage of protein content. That is to say, the list of aminos added up to 33.x, and protein content was 33.x% of the total sample weight.

The calorie calculation from one of my earlier posts may be off. At the time, I misunderstood the term "Carbohydrates, Available" to mean "total carbohydrate", when in fact the defiinition (above) is total carbohydrate minus insoluble fiber.

For the record, calories, like carbohydrates, are calculated; they're not measured directly .. http://www.medallionlabs.com/TestLi...est.aspx?id=171

Calories are determined by the following calculation:
Calories = (4xCarbohydrates) + (9xTotalFat) + (4xProtein)
Calories from fat = 9xtotalFat
Calories from saturated fat = 9xSatFat
Calories, Fiber Subtracted = (4xcarbsAvailable) + (9xTotalFat) + (4xProtein)

Anyway, I must stop here . I will get back to this when I can devote all of my attention.



regards

Doreen

I agree. Fortunately I actually fall into the same boat. I'm interested in seeing this through myself because I'm a consumer of these products and many others myself. In the end I'd like to get to the bottom of all this which is why I haven't yet run away

-lindasd

I have like 5 loaves of this bread in my freezer and they cost me roughly 6.50 a loaf as I live in Canada....wish I knew the truth on this...I guess I will count it as 2 carbs per slice till I finish it up and then order from my old low carb bread vendor and get my flax seed 1 carb per slice bread.

Doreen,
For the second posting of the lab test results you decided not to go through the carbs section because you found the report itself to not be believable.

At this point I'm not going to bother with trying to get someone at Medallion to come online to vouch for the report or post their own version because I have to guess that won't be believed either.

Instead lets just skip ahead to getting a new test done and we can have the results posted by the lab rather than me. Since we've decided that sending the bread to a customer and then on to a lab isn't a good option, we've also therefore decided that sending the bread directly from the bakery to the lab is the best route.

The baker wants to know which lab you would like it sent to? Medallion was chosen for these prior tests, but we can have it sent wherever you guys would like. Please let me know. The sooner the better so that we can get the ball rolling.

-lindasdd

P.S. Now if only I could get the other low carb bread companies to be as willing to have their breads tested and the test results publicly reviewed.

What truth do you want to know? 2g of carbs is nothing! Even on Atkins induction.

Patrick

Hi,
This is why we are so skeptical of this, or I am anyway. Having the test results be publicly viewed should be seen as a way to prove their claimed "low carb" bread's worth. This makes it seem as if they are hiding a truth that we need to know as the consumer.

It all adds up though.

And it adds up a lot worse if you are counting it as zero carbs and it should have been 2 or 3. Those kind of hidden carbs can really sneak up on you.

Bobiam is right...

It all counts...

My CCLL is in the 40's... so in order for me to lose I have to stay in a very tight range.

Telling me something is 0 carbs when it isn't doesn't help. However that is one of the reasons why I really don't do a lot of tricks with my diet.

I try to keep it more natural... boring... but natural..