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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Dec-03-09, 10:53
Tom873 Tom873 is offline
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Default Candida diet question

Do the vegetables you eat HAVE to be raw?
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Dec-03-09, 20:55
Tom873 Tom873 is offline
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Also, I made an appointment to get checked out on Monday. Should I wait to start the diet? If I start the diet now will it effect the test results? I'm assuming it won't but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Dec-04-09, 05:30
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Annajen Annajen is offline
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HI Tom

Well, if you have had bad symptoms for years, I doubt if you begin the diet early it will necessarily affect the test results much. Having said that, as you say, it may be best if you wait to see the doctor and see what he says.

In my case I couldn't get an appointment with the right doctor for a month and I began the diet but he was still able to determine quite a few things were still wrong even so, although my case was very advanced when I saw him.

Not all vegetables have to be eaten raw, although certain veg have extra digestive enzymes which mean they are very beneficial when eaten raw.

There are some great recipes in "The Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook" second edition by Dr Zoltan Rona and Jeanne Marie Martin. I have been using it to treat this and the advice is sound, thorough and really really great, plus there are recipes and whole sections discussing some of the finer points of the candida and what not to do.

The idea is, basically there are several phases to the diet ---a pre-treatment phase, a treatment phase, and a post-treatment phase, and then a "diet for life". During the treatment phase, foods are greatly restricted to meat, fish, veg and low carbs only. After that other fruits are reintroduced gradually, starting with the least sugary and moving on towards more sugary later on in the "diet for life" phase.

Hope that helps.

Annajen
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Dec-04-09, 11:07
Tom873 Tom873 is offline
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Thanks a lot. I think I'll wait until I'm tested before I jump right in to the diet.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Dec-05-09, 04:19
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Annajen Annajen is offline
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Hi Tom

One thing you might try that had a strong effect on me was Pao D'arco tea. I tried this tea 3 times per day and suddenly a lot of my symptoms first improved for a day or two and then got worse. I noticed the big changes in symptoms and then thought that maybe the worsening was the die-off effect, but I wasn't really sure because I was very new to it all. Later I found out that it was the "die-off" effect and that I should continue with the tea to get rid of the candida.

At that point when I saw the doctor(s) I was able to say "I tried this tea which is anti-fungal and it really made a difference". That didn't convince the ones who didn't want to believe that candidiasis was a genuine problem in some people, but the ones who knew about candida and how to treat it (and also my GP who knew about it but admitted he didn't really know how to treat it particularly) took note of that in the medical history/symptoms.

Don't know if this helps or not, but I hope it might. You can get this tea in most health food shops, but I would be careful about ordering off the internet because you need to make sure the tea is high quality Pao D'arco and not some which use wood chips mixed with Pao D'arco instead. Find a good health food shop and make sure it is a high quality version (usually labelled, well packaged and clearly marked as to the "mix").

Last edited by Annajen : Sat, Dec-05-09 at 05:04.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Dec-05-09, 07:43
KT12 KT12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annajen
Hi Tom

One thing you might try that had a strong effect on me was Pao D'arco tea. I tried this tea 3 times per day and suddenly a lot of my symptoms first improved for a day or two and then got worse. I noticed the big changes in symptoms and then thought that maybe the worsening was the die-off effect, but I wasn't really sure because I was very new to it all. Later I found out that it was the "die-off" effect and that I should continue with the tea to get rid of the candida.

At that point when I saw the doctor(s) I was able to say "I tried this tea which is anti-fungal and it really made a difference". That didn't convince the ones who didn't want to believe that candidiasis was a genuine problem in some people, but the ones who knew about candida and how to treat it (and also my GP who knew about it but admitted he didn't really know how to treat it particularly) took note of that in the medical history/symptoms.

Don't know if this helps or not, but I hope it might. You can get this tea in most health food shops, but I would be careful about ordering off the internet because you need to make sure the tea is high quality Pao D'arco and not some which use wood chips mixed with Pao D'arco instead. Find a good health food shop and make sure it is a high quality version (usually labelled, well packaged and clearly marked as to the "mix").


Excellent advice again Annajen. I have heard about the Pao D'arco tea as well, but I haven't included that in my reginmen. Not sure if they sell it here in Thailand. I'll have to check it out.

I have focused mainly on virgin coconut oil and probiotic supplements to keep my body free from Candida (as well as eliminating foods that feed the Candida). As I live in Thailand, coconuts are easy to come by and very inexpensive. I usually just eat one a day or every other day as opposed to buying the virgin coconut oil. If coconuts are expensive where you live, then I would suggest buying the oil. Secondly, I take Nature's Way Probiotics. They are just a particular brand that I read good things about in a Consumer Labs Report. You should choose a supplement that has at least 10 billion CFU (colony forming units). This will make sure that the good bacteria are reestablished in your gut, in effect crowding out all the bad organisms (including Candida).

You can modify your diet anytime you like, I wouldn't wait to see a doctor. Sometimes it can take months or even years to clear your body of Candida if you do it the natural way. It depends on how bad your infection is. That is why I suggest taking a round of antifungals first, and then following that with the all the natural remedies.

Let us know how your doctor's appointment is! Good Luck!
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Dec-05-09, 09:18
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VersatileD VersatileD is offline
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To answer the original question (because everyone else answered everything else so well), I wouldn't imagine raw vegetables would be good for any condition. They're rough on the system.

Cooking them in a bowl of soup is the best move, since you get all the nutrients AND it's easily digestible and least troublesome.
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Dec-05-09, 10:32
Tom873 Tom873 is offline
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Thanks for the replies, guys. Annajen, thanks for the advice on the tea. Unfortunately, I suffer from esophageal ulcers and have to stay away from caffeine. And KT12, did you get sick when you started taking the coconut oil? I've read that a lot of people experience nausea and stomach aches when they first start on the extra virgin coconut oil.

Also, I have another question maybe you guys can help me out with. How come the sugar from vegetables doesn't feed candida?

Last edited by Tom873 : Sat, Dec-05-09 at 12:19.
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Dec-05-09, 14:21
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Annajen Annajen is offline
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Hi Tom

Don't worry . . . Pau D'Arco tea (note my correction of my earlier misspelling . . . it's Pau not Pao) is caffeine free. It is made from a medicinal tree in the South American rainforest which is free of microbes and fungi. It should be safe for your ulcers as it is very soothing, although its taste takes a little getting used to.

I'm also on coconut oil (wow . . . KT12 . . .you too, eh? ). I take Biona Organic raw virgin coconut oil (coconuts are harder to come by in London than in Thailand right off the tree, but we have them in supermarkets, only I find opening them is tricky).

This oil is solid in the fridge and so what I do is scrape it off with a fork when it solidifies making it work like shredded coconut in yogurts when, actually, it is really coconut oil and not dessicated coconut. It only works this way in cold foods (like natural yogurt) since it becomes liquid at higher temperatures.

The sugar from veggies probably technically does feed candida except the advantage is that it is packed in a lot of veggie fiber and so is very slowly absorbed, rather than the sugars in high carbs which go in quick and fast, thereby shooting up your blood sugar levels and giving the candida a big sugar high.

Veggies tend to have more cellulose and fiber, plus they are lower in sugars generally than fruits. A few have higher levels, although my specialist allows all veg on the diet. My book says that some should be excluded if people are allergic or food intolerant and so excludes some (but not the higher sugar ones, actually . . . more the nightshade family).

Mushrooms are EVIL if you have candida. They are the closest veggie relation to candida yeast, being in the fungus themselves, and so are cousins of candida and can significantly worsen your condition. My book is keen on everyone avoiding mushrooms indefinitely on candida diets and I haven't read that they are a good thing to re-introduce particularly after candida treatment is completed either.

Good veg for candida include all the green stuff (I have a great recipe for Green Power Soup) because oxygenation is another great way to kill the little blighters. In fact, Tom, you might ask your doctor about oxygen treatments as buffered oral oxygen and hydrogen peroxide treatments are very effective.

Since you don't know how much die-off to expect yet from your condition, my advice would be to make these changes slowly. If you want to begin the diet, don't go cold turkey but edge towards it for a week or two, eliminating any high carbs and caffeine drinks, and then slowly eliminating items with added sugars. Cut down on fruit but don't eliminate it completely until you begin treatment. Aim more for white grapefruit, kiwi and lemon and lime (again, I don't mean to sound like a doctor, but this is the advice from my candida book that I bought and worked for me).

While doing this, you can learn a few new recipes from the internet and candida diet books and find some you particularly like. At that point, hopefully you will have found a good doctor to work with you on eradicating it. Then you can begin proper treatment.

In the meantime, if you try the Pau D'Arco tea and notice any changes (either great improvement or sudden worsening of symptoms) note them down and tell your doctor when you see him.

Don't try to begin proper treatment---herbal or conventional antifungals en masse---until you see an experienced specialist. That has to be done carefully and with guidance and your whole health history will need to be taken into account before beginning any serious antifungal medicine.

Just my two cents, but I hope it helps! I'm only slightly further up that learning curve than you are at this point, but I remember how I felt in September when it was all new to me too.
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Dec-05-09, 17:28
Tom873 Tom873 is offline
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Thanks so much Annajen. You've been so helpful. I really appreciate it. Due to all the symptoms I suffer from, even if my tests come back negative, I think I am still going to go ahead with the candida diet, so the more knowledge I have, the better.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Dec-06-09, 04:50
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Annajen Annajen is offline
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No problem, Tom. Good luck with the appointment and with starting the diet. There are also some great soup recipes to help with the IBS/gastro symptoms which I have found really good, so give me a shout if you want to try them.

Let us know how it all goes. I know change can be tricky at first, but you'll feel WAY better in a few weeks if you make some of these changes now.

Annejen
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Dec-06-09, 09:30
Tom873 Tom873 is offline
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How long does it normally take for die off to start once you start the diet and how long does it normally last for? Sorry for all of the questions. I'm just nervous and a little confused.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-09, 05:36
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Annajen Annajen is offline
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Hi Tom,

Well, the diet alone can produce die-off effects in bad cases, and in my case this happened. Most of the die-off, though, got bad when I combined the diet with the antifungals. Then I really noticed it and felt awful for awhile.

I noticed it start about 3 days after I switched to a candida diet and began taking antifungals (I started with Pau D'arco tea since I could buy it at the health food shop and thought it might be good to see if it made any difference before trying to find a candida doctor for additional treatment). For the first few days I just felt suddenly much better and all the symptoms subsided completely. Or so I thought until the die-off started a few days later.

The reason this happens is that a live candida organism releases a lot of toxins into your blood, but a dead one can release far more. Your liver can get overloaded and then the symptoms become temporarily worse until the candida is gone and the liver has processed all the toxins.

I'm afraid everyone is different, all the treatment options are different and there are people with long-term cases who have the die-off effects for several weeks very badly and then more mildly for a few months after that.

Other people report that the die-off in their cases was very short, and still others have only mild candida and so are better more quickly. It depends on type of treatment, severity of case, which tissues are affected (e.g. is the candida deep and entrenched in the tissues or just a little in the gut?) etc.

In my case, my doctor gave me Ozovit, which is a week-long course of hydrogen peroxide and various salts to sterilize and clean the gut and kill a lot of the candida before beginning the more potent antifungals. This was to reduce the amount of candida in the gut before beginning the antifungals to clear it out of the other tissues, and presumably to reduce the die-off effect somewhat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN-STK2XvgM

This link might help to explain some of the issues with candida. I am not saying this particular doctor is the best at curing it or anything like that, but I am saying that what he says about oxygen therapy has also been backed by other consultants (such as mine in London) in dealing with candida cases, since my own consultant put me on Ozovit hydrogen peroxide (which also had the effect of giving the body tissues extra oxygen which kills the candida).

This is just to look at to give you a bit more information since, as I said, I'm not a doctor and I'm not advocating this doctor on youtube or his treatment methods necessarily. I just found it helpful for more information. I also disagree somewhat with his more dismissive view of the effects of diet in a post-candida person, since he made it sound in the video a bit as though you can go back to eating what you like and I doubt very much that is the case. But that's just my opinion, as I said . . . this is only to give you a little more information and his introduction about what candida is sounded pretty good, at least to me.

The length of the die-off will depend on the amount of candida in your body, treatment chosen, and also partly on how carefully you are able to follow the candida diet. A lot of people cheat on it and then find their candida takes much longer to clear or symptoms return straight away when they go off the diet.

Don't worry about the questions. It is perfectly natural to feel confused and daunted initially when you're gathering information.

Let me know how the appointment goes!

Annajen (Anne)
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Dec-07-09, 10:38
Tom873 Tom873 is offline
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Thanks once again for the wonderful reply, Annajen. I'm definitely going to look for the tea you recommended. Unfortunately, because of my stomach problems, I had to reschedule the testing until tomorrow. I really hope I can make it this time. I went ahead and started the diet today. I was going to wait until after I had the blood work but don't feel I can wait any longer.

Just a little confused. I've read on some sites that organic plain yogurt is okay while others said it isn't. The same thing with pumpkin seeds. Do you have any idea? Because, if they are not okay, then I did not start the diet. Again, I really appreciate all the help.

Last edited by Tom873 : Mon, Dec-07-09 at 18:42.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Dec-08-09, 05:11
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Annajen Annajen is offline
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Hi Tom

Ok, I have to be honest and say that there are unfortunately lots of conflicting things I've found regarding the "correct" candida diet. Some doctors say some things are allowed and others say not. Some internet sites recommend, for example, coconut whilst others say not. The reason is not whether coconut, for example, is a good or bad candida thing but how you are taking it.

The idea behind the candida diet is partly to reduce your total consumption of bad bacteria and moulds from canned, dried and marinated foods, while boosting your "good" stomach bacteria and reducing the bad bacteria which are not necessary to your body and which can be harmful because they can feed the yeast.

One of the reasons that there is disagreement on some things (e.g. pumpkin seeds) is that some doctors think "Ah . . . pumpkin seeds are dried, may have a high mould content from the packaging etc".

My book allows them but only if cooked first. In fact, my candida book allows a lot of foods on the treatment phase of the diet, but only if cooked first (e.g. seaweed is also supposed to be good for candida sufferers because it has a good iodine and mineral composition for those of us who have had some of the malnutrition symptoms from bad digestion/candida, BUT it also has a high bacteria count, so my book allows it but only in soups, stews, boiled water with lemon etc).

I'm not saying mine is the only candida book out there (I mean the one I'm reading---"The Complete Candida Yeast Guidebook" by Dr Rona) and so, again, this is one person's opinion. It does seem to be pretty thorough on explaining this type of thing though, and accounts for some of the differences between doctors and opinions as regards the diet.

As for the natural yogurt, this book allows it provided that the patient does not have a milk or dairy intolerance. Unfortunately, one of the bad effects of candida is that it tends to cause "leaky gut syndrome" and resulting food intolerances. I'm food intolerant to many things at the moment as a result, but fortunately not dairy. Having said that, dairy foods feed the yeast and so only certain ones are allowed on the diet book I have, including butter and natural yogurt, and occasionally feta cheese although feta cheese must be cooked to reduce the bacteria content in these recipes).

Mostly the author advises to check with your individual doctor about your individual needs, intolerances etc and a correct candida diet plan for you, individually, will need to be drawn up ultimately. My own doctor has said that there is no one "correct" candida diet, and that whilst most practitioners agree on what would be bad food for candida (e.g. high starch and high sugar content foods), they only agree up to a point and then it depends on the individual, degree of candidiasis present and other issues.

I would say, and this is just my advice based on what I have read and what my doctor has indicated, that pumpkin seeds roasted would probably be ok since the roasting might kill off any bacteria. The other problem is moulds on veggies. Moulds don't get killed off very quickly on foods through heating, because they are not like bacteria, so to reduce those on your vegetables, the authors suggest a Veggie Wash before eating, using Tea tree oil, grapefruit seed extract or a commercial veggie wash (NB: All of these need diluting in water first!!!) to be used before eating veggies.

As for dairy products, try using unsugared rice milk or soya milk (I'm intolerant to soya milk at the moment, but if you are not you could try it). Regarding the natural yogurt, you can try it and see how you go---my book recommends adding a touch (1/4 tsp) of acidophilous powder to the yogurt before eating to reduce bad bacteria and augment the good ones. It does allow natural yogurt, though, since natural yogurt contains the good candida-eating bacteria. Also, it tastes nice as a salad dressing mixed with some apple cyder vinegar or in a cold soup blended with cucumber, both of which are allowed in my candida diet book.

Again, it is best to see your doctor and, often, if he has treated candida specifically before, he will work with a nutritionist who can also give you advice on how that particular practitioner views some of these foods. Mine, for example, allows all vegetables--- including sweet potatoes, yams, and beetroot. I have seen other candida diets which don't allow some of those, but I have had no problem with any of them and so for me they all work pretty well and keep my blood sugar stable and steady through the day without causing any bloating or other problems.

Remember, too, that while you can't really eat potato chips and baked potatoes on a candida diet during treatment phase, the idea of a candida diet is not quite the same as the idea behind, say, an Atkins diet and so you must make sure you keep your carbs up (my doctor also encourages whole grains like millet, quinoa and brown wholegrain rice) and you can eat whenever you are hungry. It isn't how much you eat but WHAT you eat which is the issue on this diet. You should not be starving, you should also not eliminate carbs but just change them to wholegrains.

Hope it goes well today. Sorry about the time zone difference---I'm writing from the UK so I suspect you may be a few hours different to me if you are in the US or Canada, so maybe my replies are the next morning when you posted at night.

Last edited by Annajen : Tue, Dec-08-09 at 05:22.
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