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  #46   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 18:09
PhxSarah PhxSarah is offline
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Posts: 329
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 225/208/135 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 19%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I don't think the Eades make any pretensions to being "natural" or paleo. Those shakes would be pretty nasty without anything to sweeten them.


Hmm, I guess that's just me that's grown more towards local and organic whenever possible. Eades does spend some time in one of the earlier chapters talking about spending the extra for organic whenever possible, and I would swear he came out in favor of grassfed. Arghh, I think all i keep learning keeps getting all jumbled in my head.

The Protein shakes we found without aspartame - were without splenda too! which I thought was awesome. They're stevia sweetened - Jay Robb Whey Protein. I hesitated at the store, because he also has Jay Robb Egg White Protein, and i wasn't sure which was 'better'. If someone has a strong opinion, please weigh in with it, because we need to buy more protein powder soon.

I also didn't want to get all caught up in 'being perfect', because then I end up just giving up on all of it. I have to remind myself about the big stuff:
1) Giving up alcohol, coffee, Diet Dr. Pepper and Diet Pepsi, and ibuprofen and aspirin
2) sticking to the 3 shakes and one low carb meal
3) taking all those supplements

I have to remember that if I do all that, that even if I have some splenda sweetened drinks or the pig I'm eating was grain fed and trapped in a little pen - that it's still doing me a world of good compared to my way of life just a week ago. (Which again, was pretty low carb compared to 'normal' america, but we were drinking too much, and having too many cheats.)

I've never been one to regularly take supplements longer than maybe a week. So it's a big deal that my husband and I are both committed to this - we bought them all, and I've divvied them out into little pill organizer things so I don't have to figure it out every morning.

Sarah
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  #47   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 18:11
PhxSarah PhxSarah is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 329
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 225/208/135 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 19%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaSara6
Hi!
Today I feel crazy weird. I have a slight headache but my whole body seems to be vibrating. My urine smells really strong, like I ate asparagus, but it's perfectly clear. I mean, it's much stronger than I ever remember it being when I was in ketosis (but that's been a while!) I've taken all the supplements both days.


Hi!

You know it could be almost anything - depending on how big the changes were for you. All those supplements - could have that affect. Or switching to such high protein with little else (the shakes have little fat and no carb really).

I'm waiting til the third day or so to feel better like when I've been through induction before. Today was our second day..

Sarah
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  #48   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 19:32
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,163
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaSara6
Hi! I'm jumping in here, too. I started on Sunday, so this is just day 2 for me. This may just be the hardest thing I've ever done! I'm really hoping that after the Dreaded Day 3 things will get a little easier. But right now, I want FOOD. The shakes keep me full enough, but I want to EAT.

I wouldn't miss eating that much if the shakes kept me full, but so far they don't. The first few days I was mildly hungry most of the time, but not excessively so. But then today was awful. I had Friday off from work so today was my first work day on the plan. I clearly don't have a blender in my office to froth up a shake. So this morning before work I whirred up a double shake in the blender and put it in a thermos to take to work for breakfast and lunch (I leave for work at 6:50 AM which is far too early for me to want breakfast).

The problem with that was that by the time breakfast and lunch rolled around naturally all the ice had melted so instead of thick shakes I had a thin and watery concoction which did *not* cut it as far as satisfying my hunger. I held firm, but it was only with a huge effort of willpower, unlike classic low carb. Clearly I could not live my entire life like this. I kept thinking about food all day.

When I got home I wanted to eat everything in the fridge. I cooked up two organic hot dogs wrapped in bacon, and then sauteed some spinach in the bacon grease. But when I was done I was still ravenous, so I ended up scrambling myself a couple eggs also. Then later had the third shake, but I'm hungry again now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaSara6
What is this BCAA you are all talking about? I haven't read the whole book, but I don't remember seeing that in the week 1 necessities list.

BCAA = branched-chain amino acids. See the book pp. 68-69. The recommended leucine is a BCAA. I did not find leucine all by itself but in a BCAA powder that contained leucine as well as the other BCAAs - valine and ieoleucine - so that is what I take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaSara6
I found the Enova on the top shelf at my grocery store, no problem. The D-Ribose took a little more looking at a HFS, but they didn't have Luceine so I got it at the Vitamin Shoppe today.

My local supermarket is supposedly one of the chains that carries the Enova oil. I get that its benefit is something to do with it being mostly diglycerides, but I guess the Eades's just didn't say enough about it to make me overcome my aversion to something processed from soy and canola, and with a 10:1 Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio. At least not yet. When I stall, as I undoubtedly will, but I'll give in and buy it - though all the other sure-fire fat burners have done me no good.

It makes me seriously doubt the placebo effect, - I've tried so many diffferent things and each one I am *utterly convinced* is the magic bullet that will break my stall and get my losing again, yet not one of them ever does the least bit of good. Placebo effect be damned, Grrrrr.

EDIT: Here is a brief take on DAG oil from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dag_oil

Key sentences:
Studies indicate that DAG oil has numerous health benefits, including reducing post-meal blood triglyceride levels. [4] [5] [6] Clinical studies in Japan have also shown that DAG oil may increase overall metabolism, helping reduce the amount of fat already stored in the body. [7] [8][9]

Notes 7,8 and 9 apparenty point to the studies:
^ KC Maki et al. Consumption of diacylglycerol oil as part of a mildly reduced-energy diet enhances loss of body weight and fat compared with a triacylglycerol control oil. Am J Clin Nutr. 2002;76:1230-1236
^ T. Murase et al. Anti-obesity effect of dietary diacylglycerol in C57BL/6J mice: dietary diacylglycerol stimulates intestinal lipid metabolism. J Lipid Res. 2002; 43:1312-1319
^ T. Nagao et al. Dietary diacylglycerol suppresses accumulation of body fat compared to triacylglycerol in men in a double-blind controlled trial. J Nutr. 2000;130:792-797

I suppose if it really *does* increase metabolism and reduce fat stored in the body I should try it, but I just don't like it. Why can't they recommend coconut oil which I love?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaSara6
My urine smells really strong, like I ate asparagus, but it's perfectly clear. I mean, it's much stronger than I ever remember it being when I was in ketosis (but that's been a while!) I've taken all the supplements both days.

I have not noticed a urine odor, but I suspect I am now in ketosis. I never use ketostix, but today I certainly had the dread ketobreath all day and had to chew gum to be able to live with myself.

Last edited by Merpig : Mon, Sep-14-09 at 19:45.
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  #49   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 19:36
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,163
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fauve
This is day four for me too, and I find it really difficult. Those shakes are not satisfying at all. I feel even more hungry after drinking them, maybe the sweet taste, I don't know. They are sweetened with Stevia. I really don't like feeling hungry.

Yup, I'm with you on this one. Day Four for me too and it today was the hardest day of all. The shakes at work, thin and watery, were just so totally unsatisfying, and I don't know what to do about it. I don't think it's the sweet taste as they are not overly sweet, and I have had other sweet things while on LC that were perfectly satisfying, but they had more body than a glass of skim milk, which is about the consistency of the shakes I had at work today. I was basically feeling starved all day long.
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  #50   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 19:54
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,163
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhxSarah
If you notice - without your evening meal, and without the enova, there's barely any other fat all day (except from the heavy cream thank goodness). Weird. After all that stuff he wrote about how important saturated fat was to de-fat your liver, and we're barely eating fat. (we're already making plans for weeks 3-4 - which is sort of a meat fast ).


I notice that too, wondering "where is the fat?" after there was so much stress on how important the fat is. Well some of the recipes do use bacon or sausage, they say to use fattier cuts of meats, etc.

But I will say that the recipes really just serve to confuse me in a lot of ways. There is very little in any of them with mayo, butter, coconut oil or anything. Almost none of the menus recommend and of those. I mean I'm looking at one meal which calls for "hard-boiled eggs, smoked salmon slices, 3-4 tomato slices" and that is the entire meal. Are you supposed to eat the eggs or salmon or tomatoes just plain, with no topping or butter or mayo or oil? So I'm not sure how much of those I might have - I'm just having whatever I want for now. Some recipes (weeks 3 and 4)use almond flour, or have chopped almonds or pine nuts or macadamia nuts - so are nuts allowed? The "rules" for weeks 3 and 4 don't mention nuts that I can see, but the recipes include them. So what is the allowance? They are not listed in the tables in the back which are only for veggies and fruit.
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  #51   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 20:05
bike2work bike2work is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,536
 
Plan: Fung-inspired fasting
Stats: 336/000/160 Female 5' 9"
BF:
Progress: 191%
Location: Seattle metro area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
The shakes at work, thin and watery, were just so totally unsatisfying, and I don't know what to do about it.

Would it sabotage things to add a touch of vegetable gum? That's what makes the commercial ones thick. It's just fiber but it sure makes protein shakes seem more rich and satisfying.

I'm still in the prep phase -- shopping for all this stuff. Somehow I thought this was just going to be another re-adjustment of macro-nutrients with one or two supps. Since I won't use dairy, it's a little tricky. I wonder how unhealthy rice protein is; I discovered last year that it was wheat protein that had been ruining my life for the past 35 years. I have a serious grudge against grains. Eggs are a lot fattier than whey. Egg-white-only sounds like that scam diet with the photos of Russian mail-order brides.
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  #52   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 20:59
Fauve Fauve is online now
Senior Member
Posts: 1,200
 
Plan: Carnivore
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 63
BF:
Progress: 94%
Location: Victoria, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merpig
I notice that too, wondering "where is the fat?" after there was so much stress on how important the fat is. Well some of the recipes do use bacon or sausage, they say to use fattier cuts of meats, etc.
.


Exactly! When I put my food today into Fitday, it came to 46% fat. And that is using plenty of coconut oil tonight to cook a piece of lamb leg. I think for me, this is part of the problem. Fat is so filling I got used to that full feeling. Also, the sweet taste of the shake has started some cravings for me. I had completely lost the sweet taste, and for me, it is a good thing.
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  #53   ^
Old Mon, Sep-14-09, 21:07
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,308
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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I was just thinking I would add some xanthan gum, then I can scale back on the ice.
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  #54   ^
Old Tue, Sep-15-09, 00:48
Equinox's Avatar
Equinox Equinox is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,918
 
Plan: BP Diet/Wahls Paleo
Stats: 265/215/165 Female 175 centimeters
BF:53/46.8/21
Progress: 50%
Location: Oslo, Norway
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Another thing, along with not giving us any *rules* to follow, or ratios, or formulas (except for recipes).

I wish the "no aspartame" one would have been in the master list, the one that starts out NO ALCOHOL WHATSOEVER. It could have been number four or so, AND NO ASPARTAME WHATSOEVER.

Since it was buried in the footnotes, I still think I'm good for two weeks. For me, the main thing is going to be giving up alcohol. And since I'm also clean of all meds, taking silymarin, and the caffeine is no hardship, I'll give you my report in two weeks!
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  #55   ^
Old Tue, Sep-15-09, 06:44
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,163
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM/Potato Hack?
Stats: 375/272.6/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
I was just thinking I would add some xanthan gum, then I can scale back on the ice.

I have long loved the ThickenThin products from Expertfoods. For some reason xanthan gum, when I've tried it, has just seemed to work as well - so I just went and ordered some ThickenThin not/Sugar to try adding to my shakes and see what that does for them. I have used it in the past but not lately, and I liked it then, so we will see.

In the meantime, since an egg can be added to a shake, last night I put all the ingredients (minus the ice) into a saucepan, and then added two eggs as well, and gently cooked it until it began to thicken into a custard. It still tasted weak and a bit watery, despite the small amount of heavy cream, so I admit I also added in a glob of butter! But I split that up between two serving dishes and brought them to work today to have for breakfast and lunch. I'll see if a more pudding-like consistency, rather than a watery consistency, makes them more filling.

No more weight lost other than the initial 3 pounds which was just a dropping of the water weight of a 3-pound gain I had experienced just before starting the plan, so I'm back at the weight I've been stalled at for a while and still sitting here.
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  #56   ^
Old Tue, Sep-15-09, 08:13
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,308
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Oh that's brilliant! Just omit the added water, or cut it way back. I think when I make lemon curd there's about 1/3-1/2 cup of lemon juice in there for 5 eggs. So I would put more than 1/4-1/3 cup of water in it. The whey will thicken it some too.
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  #57   ^
Old Tue, Sep-15-09, 08:18
chessnut chessnut is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 402
 
Plan: PaNu (lacto-paleo) & VLC
Stats: 267/235.2/195 Male 71 inches
BF:40/35/20
Progress: 44%
Location: Northern Virginia
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I beleive all whey powder has leucine. So the leucine recommendation is in addition to what's in the whey. At least thats how I read it. I can only find leucibe in BCAA powder - which contains leucine, isoleucine and valine. I assume that's why he mentions BCAA's in the book. (Branch Chain Amino Acids)

I have to say I am not hungry at all. In fact, I am hard pressed to eat a meal after a morning/lunch/afternoon shake. I use 3 scoops (based on my weight), a little cream and a raw egg (no egg/cream at lunch) and the ribose/BCAA powder + flavorings.

I also add a tablespoon of psyllum husk powder to the morning and afternoon shakes. I have always put that in my workout shakes, so its out of habit. Perhaps thats helping me with hunger?

Last night it was all I could do to eat a few scraps of leftover london broil around 8:30pm. I also had a baby dill pickle for the salt - man that was tasty!

Down another 1.4 pounds this morning - just over six pounds in six days and I feel pretty good (first 2 days were rough).
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  #58   ^
Old Tue, Sep-15-09, 08:42
PhxSarah PhxSarah is offline
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Posts: 329
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 225/208/135 Female 5'1"
BF:
Progress: 19%
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Great ideas guys!

Day 3, and I popped right out of bed too early in fact. Lots more energy today. Caffeine headache seems gone (I started weaning off caffeine last week as soon as the book came out).

I was *starving* when I woke up, but the way sound carries in our house, couldn't use the blender until DH woke up too. Waiting a couple hours felt like a good exercise in delayed gratification.

DH and I have already been talking about how hard it will be to cycle back to shakes later. The book as I read it suggests that if you have a lot more to lose - that after weeks 3-4, that you start cycling one week shakes one week meat one week shakes one week meat...

But I told DH that just think how happy we are to get our one meal of meat now. I bet after two weeks of almost all meat, we're going to be thrilled with a shake (I hope ).

I also said - just think how much more excited we will be to do shakes if it proves to help us lose a bunch of weight. Down a couple more today, but not yet below where I've been off and on for the last few months.

btw:
Quote:
I beleive all whey powder has leucine. So the leucine recommendation is in addition to what's in the whey. At least thats how I read it. I can only find leucibe in BCAA powder - which contains leucine, isoleucine and valine. I assume that's why he mentions BCAA's in the book. (Branch Chain Amino Acids)


I didn't read it that way at all. We're getting boatloads of leucine from our shakes - way more than he suggested. There was also a bunch of Potassium in our shakes, so we're not consuming that supplement at all - just the calcium/magnesium/etc.

We will have to chase down a supply of Leucine before week 3, because we're supposed to still take it - and we don't have a separate supply.

Sarah
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  #59   ^
Old Tue, Sep-15-09, 09:19
MamaSara6's Avatar
MamaSara6 MamaSara6 is offline
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Posts: 2,762
 
Plan: Protein Power/Paleo
Stats: 188.5/169.5/145 Female 5 ft. 9 in.
BF:way/too/much!
Progress: 44%
Location: Atlanta
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Okay, I went back to my book and found the BCAA reference. The Vitamin Shoppe had both plain Luceine and BCAA, so I got the plain one since I didn't remember he said BCAA's were okay.

I'm down 2.5 lbs. on day 3. I'm hopeful, but not getting my hopes up, if that makes sense. I need to get down below 170 before I'll give this any credence. One of my (many) set points is 172, so I need to move past that!

I'm still pretty hungry---I wasn't thinking about how much ( or little! ) fat is in the shakes, but I think I'll add more. Maybe the raw egg, too. I get them from a safe source, the farmer, but I'm not sure I'll be able to handle it! lol.

I wrote in sharpie on the top of each of my supplements how many to take each day. But I'm going to doublecheck his recommendations with my whey protein powder.
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  #60   ^
Old Tue, Sep-15-09, 09:42
chessnut chessnut is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 402
 
Plan: PaNu (lacto-paleo) & VLC
Stats: 267/235.2/195 Male 71 inches
BF:40/35/20
Progress: 44%
Location: Northern Virginia
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I posted the leucine question on his blog (Dr Eades) - I'll see if I get a response. I also invited him to visit this thread, since we've got quite a crew here!

My urine has been quite strong smelling as well (like asparagas). And I'm only in the lightest of ketosis - which is normal for me on induction phase low carb. I'm assuming its the very high protein content. Can't wait to eat more fat!

I'm also drinking an absolute ton of water like never before! I know I'm supposed to, but that's not the reason - I'm just really thirsty!

I'm wondering if I can keep doing the morning shake during weeks 3-4 - I kinda like them... Or perhaps, maybe, after week 3-4?

Last edited by chessnut : Tue, Sep-15-09 at 10:02.
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