Adding an update.

Yesterday was the 2 week mark of the new lower calories. I've gotten comfortable with the calorie level, and I'm actually having trouble getting enough calories. Not very hungry and my blood sugar is mostly stable now that I've found a protein/carb balance that works for me.

I haven't really lost any weight yet. I dumped about 10 lbs of water the first week. Then I accidentally ate something I didn't realize I was sensitive to and gained back 2, and yesterday I was at a business function all evening and got dehydrated, so I'm up another one. Net loss 7 lbs in 2 weeks.

Not very exciting, because I know its all water.

It will probably be another week before I get my mineral analysis back.

This is great news. Especially not having the hungry horrors.

Boy do I know what you mean about the water....

Interested to hear your results Bats, from the hair analysis as well as the calorie focus.

I got my hair analysis back yesterday and discussed it with the nutritionist who ordered it for me. He's very smart and wasn't trained in this country, which I consider a definite plus. He understands controlling carbs, balancing things for the individual, and he's more knowledgeable than any 3 other nutritionists I've ever met.

The report is very interesting. It has some colorful graphs that show you the various mineral levels extracted from the hair and where each falls in the reference ranges, and then another set of graphs that show key balances like copper to zinc and calcium to magnesium and sodium to potassium.

Then there's several pages of written report with conclusions, possible causes for the findings, and recommendations.

It does carefully say that the findings and recommendations are trends based on scientific findings but should be reviewed by a professional and not considered a medical diagnosis.

It concludes that I'm a 'Type 1 Fast Metabolizer' which means I do better with heavy food like meats and fats and high purine foods. People of that type tend towards high blood pressure, being very warm, and hyperexcitable, which fits me very well.

Its all very fascinating.

I'm apparently low in

Calcium: which tends to cause allergies (including food over sensitivities), anxiety, irritability, and insomnia.

Magnesium: which has a long list of things but particularly for me higher blood pressure, noise sensitivity, and something called Type 2 insomnia, which I'd never heard of but for years have called 'the rollovers'. Its the kind where you fall asleep easily, but wake up a lot (look at the clock, and roll over to go back to sleep). It has a quite a long description of it that exactly describes my usual sleep patterns.

Copper: which contributes critically to the formation of sex hormones and neurotransmitters. It also keeps the ligaments snug as they should be.

Manganese: critical in blood sugar control.

Those are the highlighted deficiencies.

There's an interesting paragraph about the importance of B6 in maintaining the proper balance between calcium and magnesium.

Then there's a long list of food recommendations, most of which are quite good, but which we've agreed I will ignore for now.

So, I'll soon be taking the copper, magnesium, and calcium supplements. Copper recommended as the one to take first, if I only take one to start.


Its been a month since I started this. I've fallen off my program in a couple of places (most notably dinner at PF Changs for my DH's birthday where I discovered that for some reason 'gluten free' means 'we're going to jack the carbs sky high' after the fact.) Generally I've done well with it. I'm past the transition issues and am getting the hang of it for a regular lifestyle.

I do seem to spend a moderate amount of time hungry but averaging about 100g carbs, about 130g protein (my recommended amount per Eades) and then getting enough fat for the difference seems to keep my blood sugars extremely stable and as long as they're stable, I don't often even notice being hungry. Much more stable than they ever were on 40 carbs, which fascinates me, since it should be the opposite.

I went from 380 to a stable 366 before TOM showed up. That's 14 lbs in a month, definitely acceptable, although I'm not sure how much of that was fat as opposed to water and bloat

I've been pretty good about getting to the gym twice per week, and this week I'm working on adding the exercise bike at home for days that I don't get to the gym. I'm working up to the gym more days per week, but a good hard session wipes me out too much for a good work day, so I'm having to build up to it.

end of update.

Very encouraging! Happy to hear that you've found such a good nutritionist, and best wishes for continued progress. I know you've waited a long time for this, and it must feel great to see those pounds gone.

I've never heard of that "rollover" insomnia. I definitely have that, but I do take a magnesium supplement. I wonder if I should increase it.

Interesting analysis, Batspit. I'm glad you've found someone and something you think is helpful.

How great on many fronts. Mineral data, and scale moving, and feeling good.

Interesting. I found this here:



So I guess its properly called 'sleep maintenance insomnia' which I've had forever. Its better when I low carb, but still happens and I'm also very prone to the early morning awakenings, which is possibly genetic in my family. So maybe undiagnosed gluten intolerance interfering with magnesium absorption?

My grandmother, may she rest in peace, had gotten to the point where she regularly got up at 4 am. It was quite a family joke. My dad is getting there, and I've been an early morning person my whole life because once I'm up, then I'm up.

Learn something new and fascinating every day.

I did some other searches and none of the sites I found even mentioned the idea of magnesium deficiencies causing this problem.



Not so high on carbs.

If I cut the last 2 days for skewed data, it looks like my percentages are
Carbs 21%
Protein 26%
Fats 53%

This is keeping me very stable and 100 carbs gives me a lot more leeway in the way of fruit or starches or coconut based ice cream to make up for any 'deprivation' feelings from keeping the calories low. Without enough carbs to get really crazy.

I picked 100ish carbs because of something a poster by the name of LowCarbUgh posted ages ago. She was a type 1 diabetic and she talked about diabetic research showing that type 1s needed *more* insulin on vlc to handle gluconeogenesis than they did on a more moderate but still controlled carb level. The studies she referred to didn't discuss *why* that would be, but there was good data both anecdotal and hard research.

I haven't found the data on the conversions of carbs to glucose but it is known that a very few body systems require glucose rather than ketones. So I thought if I provided just about what the body needs for direct carb to glucose conversion, then the rest of my calories in fats for ketones, then that might work better for me. It does seem to be.



Apparently calcium and magnesium are opposites and keep each other in balance. Its possible that you take in the magnesium but without the right amounts of calcium for balance, then you don't use it properly? I don't know. Its fairly confusing and all new to me. All I can say is this is where I got the test from.

That is interesting that you can feel better and lose better on 100g of carbs. I wonder if it is your exercise that is demanding more carbs through glycogen replacement too. Because this sounds very like a Tom Venuto-style approach, and he has thousands of people for whom it works. Also even kwasniewski says to stay away from gluconeogenesis and to use carbs instead, maybe you have a higher need. Lots of fast twitch muscle perhaps?

Interesting about the calcium and magnesium. Those are two of the nutrients that are getting lower in our produce. Not that you would get that much of your nutrients from produce.

I've wondered about the carb number. It could be the exercise, it is a moderately demanding workout which makes it much more so for me doing it with an extra person strapped to my back.

The fast oxidizers need heavier foods, the slow oxidizers need lighter foods, but apparently there are people in the middle who need more of a balance. I'm wondering if my metabolism is healing and I need to move to more of a balance?

I looked up Ton Venuto. I think I'll have to stop at a book store and page through one of his books to see what his program actually looks like. I got a little tired of the low carb bashing on his website, but that doesn't mean he won't have useful things to say.

He does carb bash and is stuck in calories. What I do like about him is he's obviously helped thousands of people and some of his things in his book I have not seen anywhere else. Like he really does say some people need different macronutrient mixes.

And of course being a "natural bodybuilder" he's all about lots of exercise.

This is a really interesting topic. I find myself FREAKING OUT about this whole WOL thing because after losing 95lbs I have not been able to lose. I have been watching my calories, LIMITING the dairy, and basically sticking to Atkins '72 but now I'm worried. What do I do if it doesn't work? Also, I haven't been hungry enough to eat more than 1200 cals ----> is this going to hurt me even more? There is so much conflicting research and I have no idea where to turn now. I feel like I've tried EVERYTHING higher fat, lower fat, crazy excercise, eating more eating less. But I do know one thing, after a year and a half of following this plan the sacrifice is starting to get REALLY old. Sure I feel great, look better, but I am mentally tired of counting everything that goes in my mouth and it not resulting in anything...


... I know this hasn't actually been a productive post but I just wanted to offer my support : )

Bumping for an update.

Still sticking around 25/25/50, where 50% of my calories are from fats. That's about 100 carbs. I feel better than I have in a while.

Yes, I'm sometimes a little hungry, I'll admit. But, it keeps my blood sugars more stable than vlc ever did so hungry is pretty easily suppressed with water or just plain ignored. Its a lot like tired. If I'm just a little tired I ignore it. If I'm really busy, I don't really have time to notice. If I'm exhausted, I take a nap.

I did pretty well for the first month, then kind of stalled in the second. Then I went on vacation, ate way too much, came home bloated and not regretting a single mouthful, and rededicated myself. The bloat was pretty much gone by the end of the first week.

I think there are 2 huge factors in reaching a new low using this new method.

1. Calories do count and carbs aren't evil. For those of us who get stuck long and hard, its time to listen to our bodies a little more and listen to well meaning advice a little less. I convinced myself utterly that only low carb would ever work and that low carb had to be in the 30-40 range. My body was never completely satisfied at vlc levels and if I'd been a little less dedicated to 'low' carb rather than 'controlled' carb I might have started losing again a year or two ago.

I'm not saying my solution will work for anyone else. I'm saying don't stick with your plan past all reasonable time frames. I lost 120 lbs fast and easy with vlc. After about 6 mos of messing with calories and fat levels, I should have decided to change things more drastically. Instead I stuck with it and didn't make any progress for 2.5 years. Not one of my best decisions. I should have experimented more.

2. Food sensitivities. I think these must affect a great many more people than the doctors would lead us to believe. I figured out some over the years, but I didn't realize how much the vague 'doesn't really agree with me' things were actually bothering me. Since I came home from vacation last week and got extremely serious about food sensitivities I've lost 11 'new' lbs. Meaning lower than the weight I was at before I left for vacation.

I feel great, my digestion isn't the slightest bit 'finicky', and I'm actually needing less sleep. I wonder how many of the 'indefinitely stalled' are being held back by food sensitivities.

Elias Haas "the False Fat Diet" has a lot of interesting things to say about them. Its a good read if you ignore his high carb bias.

Actually, since I came home on 9/10 I've lost 28 lbs. (That's 13 days folks!) Obviously, most of that was water weight. Its sure been fun watching the scale plummet though!

Great news.

I was just thinking today that vlc gets so many people started, and then something changes, and more carbs seem to work sometimes. I am losing too by breaking some of my former rules (like no more than x grams of carb per meal, or fibrous carbs only).

Rigidity of mind can be a problem - not only by me rigidly sticking too long to one theory, but rigidly not listening to things that actually might apply right now, or rigidly sticking with experts I liked in the past.

I think for me the repeated failures made me less open than I need to be to continue being successful. Holding on so hard to my ideas of what works that I can't grab onto something else that might.

Thank you. You said that much better than I did.