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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Jun-01-09, 21:09
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
Default Fretting about HDL

As you can see from my health stats log, I've had some health improvements since I started this round of LC eating.

But my HDL has barely budged in six months! This makes my TG/HDL ratio high, which according to this 1997 study, makes me a good candidate for heart disease. Granted, it was one study, and I haven't seen it replicated, but I think even Eades likes it as a marker for disease.

I've read in these forums that eating more monosaturated fat boosts HDL, but my tallow and lard, my main fuels, is 40-50% monosaturated fat. During my first go at a LC WOE, I was eating 1/4 of an avocado daily for 3 months, and that didn't do much for my HDL. I don't want to take even more supplements (like red rice yeast, no-flush niacin) than I do (8-10 daily), but I've run out of ideas.

Is my concern overblown? If I need to boost my HDL, what other direct measures can I take?

Last edited by aj_cohn : Tue, Jun-02-09 at 20:49.
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Jun-01-09, 22:03
LMMS's Avatar
LMMS LMMS is offline
What a good girl!!!
Posts: 2,852
 
Plan: my own
Stats: 195.8/165.0/138 Female 62.5 inches
BF:Getting Rid of IT!
Progress: 53%
Location: Chicago suburbs
Default

I thought I was the only one with this problem. I couldn't read your stats, it didn't come up for me but my cholesterol is great, even triglycerides at 50. LDL, Total, all good. But that darn HDL is a problem. My doctor prescribed me some super duper omega 3 fish oil. It did nothing and was expensive so I just take my OTC kind. I really don't want to do the niacin because of the red flushed face you can get, I have rosacea and I am trying to keep that at bay. I am not big on Statins but even those don't seem to do much for HDL. I read it's really exercise that's going to do it. So I am doing a 3 month experiment that actually begins tomorrow. I am working out 3 times a week with a trainer. It's with a group of 5 people so it's not as expensive but I want to see if that is the key. I have been sitting on my behind for a long time anyway.

My mom had 2 strokes at 61. She is average to low weight but both parents have high cholesterol and high BP. Everything on me is fine except the HDL so I want to work on it because they are both on statins and I'm not into them. I will post here after a 3 months are up and see if there were any changes. I do know that moving it just a bit is a big deal. They want women to be around 55 I think, I am low for even men's levels.

Lisa
I did read that no-flush niacin doesn't work like the prescription type at all.
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Jun-01-09, 22:34
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

Hmmm...

I can't seem to access your link to your health stats log, but here's a few ideas anyway.

My husband's overall cholesterol was 330-something at one point. Statin medications lowered it, but not even into the so-called normal range. Eventually - my husband gave up statin medications altogether, began following a low-carb "Paleo-ish" diet with me, walked regularly (almost daily and for at least an hour) and followed many of the recommendations in the "Heart Scan Blog" written by Dr. William Davis.

A year later, and his total cholesterol is 189, with an HDL of 77.

What worked? Lower carb, "Paleo-ish" diet, walking daily, fish oil, vitamin D3, regular full-flush niacin (he worked up to a therapeutic dosage, and takes regualar 'niacin vacations' as per Dr. William Davis' suggestions in his Heart Scan blog), eats a minimum of 3+ cups of low-carb veggies daily.

Olive oil, nuts and nut oils, avocadoes, high-quality fish oil. We eat fish at least twice weekly and we walk a lot. Lots of protein too - following the minimums recommended in Protein Power Life Plan.

Oh yeah, there's magnesium too. 300mg at bedtime. Another one of those PPLP things.

I'm not sure about upping HDL specifically (though I know the niacin is good for this), but I am starting to feel like half the battle is reducing inflammation. In this respect - things like fish oil, the good-quality fats (ie. nuts and avocadoes), stuff like curry and/or curcumin, lots of produce and the daily walking all come into play here.

Fish oil has been proven to lower triglycerides dramatically, and it's also good for reducing inflammation. Niacin helps with increasing HDL, and I think the magnesium does a lot too, though I'm unclear as to which specific aspect of one's overall cholesterol profile might be improved with magnesium. That said, magnesium is good for lowering blood pressure and relaxing muscles - so that would all help with the inflammation aspect.

Since I can't see the 'health log' link you posted - what vitamins and supplements are you already taking? And if you're already taking fish oil, what kind and what brand?

Hang in there - and take note - it took a *year* of walking daily, low-carb Paleo-ish eating, the right supplements and so on for things to change for my husband.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Jun-02-09, 11:53
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Your link is messed up, but I figured it out.

First, your Vit-D3 levels aren't optimal, you might find HDL goes up if you get that up to around 50-70.

Do you smoke? (Lowers HDL, increases bad cholesterol)
Do you exercise? (raises HDL)

I believe it is saturated fat that raises HDL.

Your HDL has actually doubled it looks like.

Try consulting the Heartscan blog and see what he recommends for raising HDL

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com

There's a search box in the upper left hand corner.

Yeah, no-flush niacin actually causes flushing... flushing your $$$'s down the toilet.
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jun-02-09, 14:14
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
Default

Sorry about the messed up link -- I fixed it.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

Nancy, you're correct, my HDL has doubled compared to pre-LC.

I do not smoke. I had been exercising regularly (2 out of 3 days) and hard (weights + cardio) for 8 months when my HDL was 43. My latest test result of 47 is after 7 months of not exercising at all. I have re-started my exercise, but I don't know if I'll be faithful to it. Given my experience, exercise might not affect my HDL.

I have been supplementing with Vit D-3 since 01/09 and am awaiting the latest test results on that. I also take krill oil, 1000 mg/day, per Dr. Eades' (and others) recommendation. I also take magnesium, 600 mg./day, plus an Epsom salts (Mg. sulfate) bath weekly.

I have been eating a fair amount of yellow curry (the type with curcumin) over the past month. I eat at least 3 C of veggies most days.

I can afford only farmed fish (tilapia and mahi-mahi), and while I eat it for variety, I don't believe that will make any difference in my HDL; farmed fish lack the health benefits of wild-caught fish. I refuse to eat farmed salmon, for environmental and taste reasons.

I have a weakness for nuts, but what I can afford regularly is peanuts, high in inflammatory omega-6 fats. Almonds and pecans, high in monosaturated/omega-9 fats, are expensive, and they remain an occasional treat. Decent red wine, suggested by the Heartscan blog, is not affordable for me at this time (I can't abide the 2-buck Chuck types of wines).

I've looked at the Heartscan blog, but I didn't find a central list of things to do that raise HDL. I did find a blog entry that strongly suggests, based on a single clinical anecdote, that stress reduces HDL. And man, do I have stress in spades. I'm a natural stress puppy, and since I was laid off last Oct., my stress has gone to new heights. It seems like therapy might do me as much good as exercise.
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jun-02-09, 14:29
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

How much D3 do you take?

Also, like Allison said, if you take the right kind of niacin, you might get an HDL boost out of that.

You might be right, stress could be an issue too.
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jun-02-09, 20:55
aj_cohn's Avatar
aj_cohn aj_cohn is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,948
 
Plan: Protein Power
Stats: 213/167/165 Male 65 in.
BF:35%/23%/20%
Progress: 96%
Location: United States
Default

Hi Nancy,

I take 2,000IU, 2x/day. I got my 25-HYDROXY test result back today: 54 — Whoo-hoo! I've also updated the stats log with that.

Regarding niacin, I'll have to sleep on that suggestion. I'm not sure that the benefits are worth the cost.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Jun-03-09, 07:09
cushsb cushsb is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: none in particular
Stats: 170/150/150 Female 5ft8in
BF:
Progress:
Default

Hi, don't want to sound like such a newbie...
but isn't HDL good for your body or atleast the good cholesterol?

So do we want to increase this HDL or don't really mind it?
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Jun-03-09, 08:23
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
So do we want to increase this HDL or don't really mind it?

He's asking how to increase it.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Jun-04-09, 04:58
cushsb cushsb is offline
New Member
Posts: 4
 
Plan: none in particular
Stats: 170/150/150 Female 5ft8in
BF:
Progress:
Default

hmmm... ok... what happens when you increase your hdl?
i mean what effect does it have on the body?
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Jun-04-09, 08:08
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

It helps dispose of the small, bad cholesterol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_density_lipoprotein
Quote:
It is hypothesized that HDL can remove cholesterol from atheroma within arteries and transport it back to the liver for excretion or re-utilization—which is the main reason why HDL-bound cholesterol is sometimes called "good cholesterol", or HDL-C. A high level of HDL-C seems to protect against cardiovascular diseases, and low HDL cholesterol levels (less than 40 mg/dL) increase the risk for heart disease.[1] Cholesterol contained in HDL particles is considered beneficial for the cardiovascular health, in contrast to "bad" LDL cholesterol.
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Jun-08-09, 08:48
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,866
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

AJ, I ran across this tidbit:
Quote:
My HDLs Increased 18.0% With Coconut Oil

Like many Paleo fans, I have observed an increase in my HDLs from 89 mg/dl back in 12/2008 to now 105 mg/dl. It's now almost ~12 mos gluten free, baby. Wow. What a year.

About 6-8 wks prior to the blood test, we started cooking with VCO, virgin coconut oil (+smearing it all over my body after showers...no studies to back justification *haa* but it's nice cheap and works, eg less wrinkles, better healing, maybe better HDLs).

TGs came down from 80s to now 60s mg/dl.

Both the LDL is now higher 120s mg/dl (directly measured, not Friedewald) and TC in the 240s like some long-living healthy female elderly and centenarians.

http://drbganimalpharm.blogspot.com...-fat-diets.html
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jun-08-09, 19:25
LarryAJ's Avatar
LarryAJ LarryAJ is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 702
 
Plan: PP/PPLP
Stats: 150/140/140 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Northern Virginia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj_cohn
I don't want to take even more supplements (like red rice yeast, no-flush niacin) than I do (8-10 daily), but I've run out of ideas.
Good grief, MAN! red rice yeast is a Statin! you might as well be taking Lipitor! No wonder your HDL won't come up.
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  #14   ^
Old Tue, Jun-09-09, 17:51
Hairballz's Avatar
Hairballz Hairballz is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 601
 
Plan: Atkins / M&E
Stats: 000/000/000 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress:
Default

As Nancy pointed out earlier into this post, HDL can be raised through exercise - it's heavily influenced by exercise. The last physical I had my doc pointed to my HDL and said he can always tell someone who exercises routinely by their high HDL numbers.
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  #15   ^
Old Tue, Jun-09-09, 20:32
Citruskiss Citruskiss is offline
I've decided
Posts: 16,864
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 235/137.6/130 Female 5' 5"
BF:haven't a clue
Progress: 93%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairballz
As Nancy pointed out earlier into this post, HDL can be raised through exercise - it's heavily influenced by exercise. The last physical I had my doc pointed to my HDL and said he can always tell someone who exercises routinely by their high HDL numbers.


Thank you for this!

Funny - when my husband I got around to getting our physicals done last summer, it just happened to coincide with a time when we were doing these seriously long walks every single morning. We'd get up, throw our clothes on and head on out the door at 6am - wanting to get the walk in before it got too hot.

We both got phone calls ...dr's office - communicating our results, but also commenting on excellent cholesterol numbers too.

I'm thinking that the exercise does help. We'd had physicals two summers prior, and nothing special on the cholesterol front.

Glad you posted this - because, come to think of it - we *were* walking every day when we got those good results back. Yup - exercise increases HDL, I'm sure of it.
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