I followed the ON recommendations, which are in this thread. But it comes down to 66 pro, 53 carb, 165 fat for me. Everyone else seems to be losing nicely but not me, I've gained 6 pounds.

I'm thinking it's not really the fat, it's the dairy. I'm going to use up all the dairy I bought and try to stick with the guidelines but use non-dairy sources of fat and see if I don't have better luck.

There's been a study recently linking food intolerances to weight gain and I think I might be a poster child.

We stopped subtracting the carbohydrate humans can't get energy from?

Carb - Fiber is usually the way we go about doing that. I'm getting 1.4 net carbs per oz of Raspberries.

There's much higher carb things in the Paleo repertory, how about dates, starchy roots, figs, and so on.

Except in real life. I agree that 1 ounce is 1 ounce - but not that all raspberries are created equal in size. And I have no idea what size berries ND used in their measurement or how long ago those measurements were taken. Nor do I know what size berries would have existed a gazillion years ago.

Here's what I do know: whether I buy my berries from the store in winter, or eat the ones I grow in summer -- I weigh everything I eat on a digital scale that measures down to 1 gram. And 1 ounce of the berries that exist in supermarkets and on my vines today is roughly 6 berries. Some days it may be as many as 7 or 8 berries if they're small. I just grabbed a container from the fridge and weighed. There were only a handful of the smaller ones left (I tend to eat the biggest first), but 6 of them were 22 grams/.75 ounce. 15 were 51g, or 1.75 ounces, which equals nearly 6 carbs.


I'm sure that's true for some. What I don't understand is why it's so hard for some folks to also accept that for some people, lots of protein does the same thing - stall you. When I ate 'normal' amounts of protein (about 70g a day) I cut out dairy and lost nothing. Nada. Zip. Ditto for zero carb. Now that I've cut protein down tremendously (eating either fatty meat like pate or fish like salmon) and upped my fat a lot, I'm eating almost all my fat from dairy and losing some weight almost every single day. And amazingly, although I haven't worked out in three weeks, my tanika monitor (and my body) show that my lean muscle mass is increasing.

Lisa

Well good, 'cause that's how the human body does it, too. Come on Nancy, you're good at math. Help!

1.9 grams total weight per berry. Seriously, go here http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ so you'll know what the hell we're talking about.

How do you propose that lean mass can increase without exercise?

As a percentage I can accept, but not total.

Ok, here's your help. In the form of a lovely paleo food:

Behold the date!

1 oz dates
Carbohydrate 21.3
Dietary Fiber 1.9

So a couple ounces of those babies and you've topped off your carbs on ON. How about Paleo? Oh wait... there is no carb limit on Paleo.

Seriously. I can't eat a web site. Just real food I weigh on a real scale. Six of today's berries weigh nearly an ounce. Seriously.

Nah, I only count the sugars also. But if you get in an argument about numbers, you gotta be specific

I'm assuming that the ON carbs are just the sugars? ...or are people going on total carbs?

Don't fall apart on us now, Lisa.

600 raspberries equals 50.39 grams sugar, total. Are you not getting that number when you put in the search I described above? (Heh, I'd pay ten bucks right now to be able to link search results, eh?)



Lisa says net carbs.

Yes, I get the same number for sugars. My point was, that as you two were arguing about carbs, I got the value for 'carbohydrates'. This is the what Lisa was using in Nutritiondata. I only realized later that you were talking sugar (I wondered where you pulled 60 from).

When I do finger in the air math in the supermarket I use the sugar number for carbs.

Body monitors only measure percentages. As to how lean mass can increase without exercise, oh baby. Me, I propose nothing. Go back to GCBC - it's all laid out quite clearly.

Lisa

I can't see Taubes stating that you can build noticeable muscle without exercise.