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  #16   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 13:45
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,736
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
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Personally, I think that the main problem is the sheer quantity of fructose/glucose people are eating today: we simply weren't built to cope with the amounts of sugar and fruit/fructose consumed in modern societies.

As for people like the Kitavans, I believe that it is highly likely that they use some form of fermentation to process their starchy foods (pretty much all other "primitive" societies process their grains by fermenting them in one form or another, so it's a safe bet that they do, too) and that this processing method then renders these foods either biologically more digestible or simply less harmful to the body due to the amount of enzymes, lactic acid and other goodies which are produced during the fermentation process.

In modern societies practically nobody (except Capmikee of course) makes fermented foods and we therefore lack the one "weapon" that we could really use today to counteract the negative effects of all the sugar.

I still haven't got round to making any fermented foods, so I just steer clear of fruit on the whole and keep my sugar intake low (by modern standards, at least!!!). I hope that is going to work!!!

And now that I have found out that virgin coconut oil can make massive improvements to people with Alzheimer's Disease (look up coconutketones and Dr Mary Newport on Jimmy Moore's site for the latest podcast on this), I shall keep up my daily dose of VCO to combat the effects of sugar on my brain!!!

amanda

PS - I'd post a link to the VCO and AD stuff, but my PC is not behaving properly right now...
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  #17   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 13:45
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Posts: 45,392
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
That really isn't much. I have a feeling the carbs in the oxtail soup are not coming from the actual oxtail.

I always thought sweetbreads meant pancreas. According to Wikipedia, that's a secondary meaning, and the primary meaing is the thymus gland.

Yup, I agree that isn't much.
Quote:
As for people like the Kitavans, I believe that it is highly likely that they use some form of fermentation to process their starchy foods (pretty much all other "primitive" societies process their grains by fermenting them in one form or another, so it's a safe bet that they do, too)

Kitavans don't (or didn't) eat grains. You won't find grain eaters on small islands like theirs. Grains don't grow well in tropical climates other than maybe rice, but they weren't agriculturalists. Their diet is really well documented and I've never heard of them fermenting anything, although perhaps they figured out a way to ferment something into alcoholic drinks. If you come across something otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Last edited by Nancy LC : Wed, Apr-01-09 at 13:53.
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  #18   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 13:55
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawood
In modern societies practically nobody (except Capmikee of course) makes fermented foods and we therefore lack the one "weapon" that we could really use today to counteract the negative effects of all the sugar.

I still haven't got round to making any fermented foods, so I just steer clear of fruit on the whole and keep my sugar intake low (by modern standards, at least!!!). I hope that is going to work!!

I'm guessing that you can get raw sauerkraut more easily in Germany, so you don't have to make it yourself?
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  #19   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 14:24
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,736
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
I'm guessing that you can get raw sauerkraut more easily in Germany, so you don't have to make it yourself?


You can indeed, although I didn't dare ask in my local butcher's if it was pasteurised (it comes in a big bucket, not in a tin or anything). I did indeed even buy some once, fulling intending to eat it raw, but the smell put me off. The way I've eaten sauerkraut here in Germany before is heated up with caraway and bacon added. Like that I can eat it, but the raw stuff just stayed in the fridge till I finally chucked it away.

I'm afraid I just wimped out...

amanda
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  #20   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 14:33
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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I don't think it's really bad to eat it cooked. You just get a little extra if it's raw.
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  #21   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 14:35
amandawald amandawald is offline
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Posts: 4,736
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy LC
Kitavans don't (or didn't) eat grains. You won't find grain eaters on small islands like theirs. Grains don't grow well in tropical climates other than maybe rice, but they weren't agriculturalists. Their diet is really well documented and I've never heard of them fermenting anything, although perhaps they figured out a way to ferment something into alcoholic drinks. If you come across something otherwise, I'd be interested in seeing it.


Hi there!

On fermentation: as far as I know, you can process many different foods using fermentation methods, they don't have to be grains to warrant that treatment. Relishes, ketchup, vegetables of all kinds have been processed using the lactic-acid fermentation method to preserve them for centuries. I think it's even called "putting up the beans" in parts of the US???

I also recall reading in one of Barry Groves' books about some processing treatment which involved fermentation being used in Africa for some kind of grain or possibly some other starchy food (yams???). It really does seem to be an almost universal phenomenon in cultures which are no longer nomadic, because, using this method, people could store and preserve foods easily, long before refrigeration was available.

When I read about the Kitavan diet on Stephan's blog, I did actually write to him and ask if he knew about whether they fermented anything they ate, but he said he hadn't ever seen anything about whether they did so. He also said he would be interested to know if they did, but in the Swedish guy's stuff, he hadn't found any reference to this.

And whilst I admit that it may in fact be true that accurate records were made of what these people ate, attention might not have been paid to how the foods were prepared: if the researchers didn't think this was relevant, and merely the naming of the foods was enough, they may not have even thought to consider this - possibly very significant - element of their diet.

Just my two cents...

amanda
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  #22   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 14:36
amandawald amandawald is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 4,736
 
Plan: GF mod carb/Schwarzbein
Stats: 160/160/160 Female 164cm
BF:
Progress: 51%
Location: Brit in Germany
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
I don't think it's really bad to eat it cooked. You just get a little extra if it's raw.


Thank you for saying that!!! I'll maybe give it another try if it's still in season!

amanda
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  #23   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 14:39
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 45,392
 
Plan: Paleo 99.5%
Stats: 210/170/160 Female 67.5"
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: San Diego, CA
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Boy, you really seem to want them to have fermented their food.
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  #24   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 14:49
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
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Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawood
I also recall reading in one of Barry Groves' books about some processing treatment which involved fermentation being used in Africa for some kind of grain or possibly some other starchy food (yams???).

There is an African millet "porridge" that is sort of halfway between a yeast bread and a beer. Poi is a Polynesian dish made by fermenting taro root. A friend of mine from South Africa, who is a raw foodist, says she used to dig yams out of the ground and eat them. No mention of fermentation, but I wondered if anyone ever buried yams to ferment them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa...#Central_Africa
Quote:
Fufu-like starchy foods (usually made from fermented cassava roots) are served with grilled meat and sauces.

(Fufu is described as a starchy porridge made from any number of different plants.)
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  #25   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 16:08
LC FP LC FP is offline
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Posts: 1,153
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/195/188 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Erie PA
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Most meat, and probably organs, contain a little glycogen, which is a glucose polymer.
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  #26   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 16:41
Valtor's Avatar
Valtor Valtor is offline
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Plan: VLC 4 days a week
Stats: 337/258/200 Male 6' 1"
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: Québec, Canada
Lightbulb Interesting!

"There's a fair amount of evidence that starch-based foods don't cause weight gain like sugar-based foods and don't cause the metabolic syndrome like sugar-based foods," said Dr. Richard Johnson

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...71212201311.htm

"UF researchers plan to test a low-fructose diet in patients soon, Johnson said."

Can't wait to see that...

Valtor

Last edited by Valtor : Wed, Apr-01-09 at 16:50.
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  #27   ^
Old Wed, Apr-01-09, 21:15
LC FP LC FP is offline
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Posts: 1,153
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 228/195/188 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 83%
Location: Erie PA
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Quote:
"There's a fair amount of evidence that starch-based foods don't cause weight gain like sugar-based foods and don't cause the metabolic syndrome like sugar-based foods," said Dr. Richard Johnson

I agree Valtor. It would be great if fructose really was the problem and not starch. It shouldn't be too hard to prove.
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  #28   ^
Old Thu, Apr-02-09, 09:35
Merpig's Avatar
Merpig Merpig is offline
Posts: 6,273
 
Plan: IF/Fung IDM
Stats: 375/259/175 Female 66 inches
BF:
Progress: 58%
Location: NE Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawood
In modern societies practically nobody (except Capmikee of course) makes fermented foods and we therefore lack the one "weapon" that we could really use today to counteract the negative effects of all the sugar.


I do! I do! I have some nice fermented homemade sauerkraut sitting at home right this very minute. And I'll certainly be making more fermented food shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandawood
And now that I have found out that virgin coconut oil can make massive improvements to people with Alzheimer's Disease (look up coconutketones and Dr Mary Newport on Jimmy Moore's site for the latest podcast on this), I shall keep up my daily dose of VCO to combat the effects of sugar on my brain!!!


Yeah, my mom died of complications of Alzheimer's - a really ugly disease, and mom was even *younger* than I am at this very moment when her symptoms first began to manifest themselves. I love virgin coconut oil in and of itself, just for the taste, this is is another good reason to make sure I always have it at home. Heck, I even have a bottle of it at *work* these days too.
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  #29   ^
Old Thu, Apr-02-09, 09:58
Squarecube's Avatar
Squarecube Squarecube is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 872
 
Plan: atkins/paleo/IF
Stats: 186.5/159.0/160 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capmikee
That really isn't much. I have a feeling the carbs in the oxtail soup are not coming from the actual oxtail.

I always thought sweetbreads meant pancreas. According to Wikipedia, that's a secondary meaning, and the primary meaing is the thymus gland.


I never pass on sweet breads when they are on the menu. However, 9 times out of 10 they may have a little breading.

Re "Packet o Oxtail". I dunno how they get that many carbs into a "packet", but I suppose that should be a lesson for us -- make it yourself. Oxtails are a braising favorite - just be sure to braise, then reheat.
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  #30   ^
Old Thu, Apr-02-09, 10:33
lil' annie lil' annie is offline
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Posts: 1,276
 
Plan: quasi paleo + starch
Stats: 153/148/118 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 14%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valtor
"There's a fair amount of evidence that starch-based foods don't cause weight gain like sugar-based foods and don't cause the metabolic syndrome like sugar-based foods," said Dr. Richard Johnson

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...71212201311.htm

"UF researchers plan to test a low-fructose diet in patients soon, Johnson said."

Can't wait to see that...

Valtor



Say, I have not yet found specific instructions for a strict fructose-free diet. Any site that I retrieve from google just gives generalities, e.g., "No fruits, No sugar," and then states something like, "Contact a registered dietician who will professionally plan a diet for you."

I'm not interesting in seeing a nutritionist, and I've never had trouble locating any specialized diet before.

Will you please post full details of a fructose-free diet and provide full info about fructose index of foods?

I'm having problems, and I sure hope that I won't have to input each and every food into the USDA index -- but even then, how many grams total per day are permissable, IF any????



Oh, and here's a recent animated discussion about HFCS:

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cach...e=UTF-8&strip=1
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